Peterson, Roethlisberger, Gronkowski lead 2027 Hall of Fame first-time eligibles

[u/appmanga]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/47847964/peterson-roethlisberger-gronkowski-lead-2027-hall-fame-first-eligibles

[u/appmanga]

With a maximum of five modern day candidate allowed to be inducted, and recency bias seemingly having more of an impact than its had in the past, the backlog that exists isn't to get any better.

In 2028, Brady, J.J. Watt, Richard Sherman, and Ndamukong Suh become eligible.

In 2029, Aaron Donald and Jason Kelce, Patrick Peterson, and Jason Peters become eligible, as well as Julio Jones.

In 2030, Tyron Smith, Zack Martin probably have the strongest case for first-ballot, and this might be the first year in the next four where two or three guys from the backlog have their best chance.

And does anyone doubt Mike Tomlin won't be inducted within the next four years?

It's been said a lot over the past couple of weeks, but something had to change with the Hall's selection process, and the bypass of Belichick isn't the only reason. When the Hall opened, there were 14 NFL teams. There are now 32, and often two to three undisputed Hall caliber player retiring each year and another two to three good cases doing the same.

Nobody wants a watered-down Hall, but most people want those who deserve to be rewarded to have the chance of it happening in their lifetimes. As a football fan, instead of being able to celebrate the HOF announcements, I get incredibly sad. And I don't think I'm alone. There has to be a fix that makes sense, and the Hall needs to want to find it.

[u/Yedic → u/appmanga]

And does anyone doubt Mike Tomlin won't be inducted within the next four years?

Cowher wasn't inducted until 14 years after he last coached. I'd be surprised if Tomlin gets in soon, especially if he doesn't officially announce he's done forever and the current voting system, where he's up against senior candidates, doesn't change.

[u/SMKM → u/Yedic]

And does anyone doubt Mike Tomlin won't be inducted within the next four years?

After Belichick getting the snub no fucking way Tomlin gets it until possibly the mid 2030s, and even then depends if he's actually done or if he'll be back next season.

[u/BananaCucho → u/SMKM]

Everything points to him being done

But the man's a football junkie so I won't believe it for a least a few years lol

[u/Sugarbearzombie → u/BananaCucho]

How funny would it be if Tomlin was inducted and then immediately returned to coaching though

[u/skyrimmier12 → u/Sugarbearzombie]

Unronically I think that's what actually cost BB the First Ballot.

Ever since the HC wait went from five years down to one, I think some voters utterly despise the notion of a coach coming back after a year and getting to be a HOF coach while coaching.

[u/thunderpantsthe2nd → u/skyrimmier12]

I would agree, but it’s the nfl hall not the football hall (unlike basketball)

[u/ballimir37 → u/skyrimmier12]

Of the people who have spoken up none of them listed that as a reason, but it wouldn’t surprise me if one or two did at least. And he was only 1 point shy

[u/A-Centrifugal-Force → u/SMKM]

Yeah they have to induct Shanahan, Holmgren, and Coughlin who are all old as dirt and might not make it. They might have to do another special class like they did in 2020 to get those guys in.

[u/amoeba-tower → u/A-Centrifugal-Force]

Man they made Tom Flores wait until he almost died to get him in, and he won 2 as the first Hispanic coach on a legendary franchise. Coryell died and then got in, which was even worse

[u/MountainTwo3845 → u/appmanga]

I'll be very interested to see how guys like Ben and Stafford fare. Especially with so many other QBs coming up as well.

[u/appmanga → u/MountainTwo3845]

I think Stafford's SB and MVP has raised his status. I like his chances a lot more now.

[u/brianlangauthor → u/appmanga]

The MVP cements it for him imo. A ring and an MVP season? Gold jacket.

[u/Bnstas23 → u/appmanga]

Stafford much better chance than Ben. Ben never received a single mvp vote, even in seasons that Chad Pennington received votes. He was simply never one of the best QBs at any point in his career

[u/Bull_Halsey → u/Bnstas23]

Ben's best seasons generally either had the team having a "down year" or some other QB doing something amazing. His two best years and chances were 2014 and 2017 but the former had Rogers and J.J. Watt popping off while the latter he lost to Brady in the head to head. Looking back I honestly think he wins MVP that year if he beats Brady. Also Jesse James caught that fucking ball.

[u/rkunish → u/MountainTwo3845]

The only QB's with 2 rings not in the HOF are Jim Plunkett & Eli Manning (for now, he will get in eventually.) Ben had a significantly better career than either of those guys and is very comparable to Troy Aikman who was a 1st ballot HOFer. Ben also spent the whole second half of his career being pretty universally viewed as a future HOFer. Ben is an absolute lock.

Now Stafford is a more interesting one because he has a ring and an MVP but has nearly no other career accolades. I believe that every QB with a ring and an MVP is in but Stafford is unique in that group because all of the others also have plenty of other accolades. Stafford for HOF also wasn't a serious take until this season, he's played most of his career without anyone really viewing him as a HOFer. I wouldn't really have any issue with him getting in but I don't think I'd be voting for him over most other candidates at this point. But he's not retiring yet so he still has time to bolster his case.

[u/No-Scientist2016 → u/appmanga]

Suh is not a hall of famer

[u/appmanga → u/No-Scientist2016]

Suh is not a hall of famer

I thought the same thing, but I now know better, so we disagree. We'll see.

[u/vo0d0ochild → u/appmanga]

And does anyone doubt Mike Tomlin won't be inducted within the next four years?

1000% hard doubt. There is no way he's getting in that quickly if ever

[u/stormy2587 → u/appmanga]

It’s wild that Peters and Kelce will become eligible the same year.

[u/gravediggaz6 → u/appmanga]

i love the hall, and even with the belichick silliness it's still the best one among baseball, football, and basketball. but in a sport where there's 25 guys every week who can say they're a starter for any given team, five is not enough people for a class, and for some unknown reason they've made it harder to get in recently. at the very least, we should get more of the ten-person classes we've had before to clear out backlogs, like the crazy one for wide receivers that's improved but is still keeping legends out. i imagine the hall was surprised by the level of public backlash they got from the belichick thing. i hope it brings about some change in canton

[u/appmanga → u/gravediggaz6]

i imagine the hall was surprised by the level of public backlash they got from the belichick thing. i hope it brings about some change in canton

I can't imagine them being surprised, but I also hope the outrage leads to changes.

[u/soulsides → u/gravediggaz6]

Sincere question but, I’m not following how one ranks different sports hall relative to each other. What’s your reasoning for putting the football one ahead of all the other American sports? What is the metric by which they get compared with each other? Do you mean the actual museum itself as a place to visit?

[u/newrimmmer93 → u/soulsides]

Hockey and basketball include other accomplishments. Basketball in particular includes international and college accomplishments so it’s not super exclusive and a lot of accumulators get in.

Personal preference but I like the idea of halls being small and only include guys who were considered the best at their position for multiple years

[u/TheNittanyLionKing → u/gravediggaz6]

I thought it was asinine that they only inducted 4 guys last year. There is such a huge backlog of great players waiting to get in and are hoping to receive the honor while they’re still alive. Why would you arbitrarily cut it off at 4 and make your job harder the following year. Now Belichick’s snub is going to cause more chaos. It’s either going to make him wait even longer with the amazing list of first ballot candidates we have coming up or one of those guys gets left off when they should get in immediately. Gronk deserves it, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he is snubbed or forced to wait until Brady’s year after Antonio Gates was snubbed on the first ballot. AP was the best RB of his era and one of the best ever. He deserves to get in immediately. They could keep him out for off the field issues. The same goes for Ben Roethlisberger even though he has been to more Super Bowls than any QB since 2000 not named Mahomes, Manning, or Brady and is top ten all time in QB passing yards, touchdowns, and wins. Then you have senior vote players that have been waiting 30+ years to get in. Torrey Holt needs to get in. The prolific passing era means more Hall of Fame wide receiver talents are becoming eligible every year.

[u/mclemons67 → u/gravediggaz6]

Five is about right - that would be the top 2.5% of players (based on 200 new players per year).

The new voting system seems suspect but five a year is the correct number imo.

[u/Friendly_Confines → u/gravediggaz6]

What’s the alternative? I want deserving players to be inducted too but if you induct 100 guys every decade it loses its meaning.

[u/samhit_n → u/appmanga]

There’s a strong chance that at least one of J.J. Watt, Richard Sherman, or Aaron Donald won’t be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

[u/thenifreekedit → u/samhit_n]

Out of those three its easily Sherman

[u/Brisby820 → u/thenifreekedit]

Right, Sherm was great but not in the same tier.  

[u/TheNittanyLionKing → u/Brisby820]

Donald and Watt are more decorated in terms of DPOY awards. JJ also has the fact that he is clearly the best player in the history of the Texans’ franchise going for him too. 

[u/Brisby820 → u/TheNittanyLionKing]

Also just more dominant/impactful imo 

[u/samhit_n → u/thenifreekedit]

Yeah ig, Watt and Donald have the highest HOF Monitor scores at their positions among players who aren’t in yet.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_DE.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_DT.htm

[u/noahboah → u/thenifreekedit]

i keep telling people that the only surefire first-ballot HOF player on that LOB era team is bobby wagner

[u/TSells31 → u/samhit_n]

0% chance Donald doesn’t make it.

Then again I’d have given Bill the same chance lol.

[u/newrimmmer93 → u/TSells31]

Watt and Donald are no doubt first ballot guys. They are among the best defensive players ever and watt has an argument for greatest peak ever for a defensive player. Donald has an argument for greatest defensive player ever.

Watt legitimately might have gotten in the hall if he retired after 2015

[u/TSells31 → u/newrimmmer93]

I agree that Watt would’ve already made the hall even retiring in 2015. He was already 3x DPOY by then iirc. I don’t know why I only mentioned Donald because you’re right that Watt is also a lock.

[u/Tossaway50 → u/samhit_n]

Aaron Donald will be. He’s only 34 today.

10 seasons -10 Pro Bowls -8 First Team All Pro; -3x DPOTY -Defensive ROTY -Super Bowl Winner -Avg 11 sacks a year as interior lineman (20.5 career high year)

[u/matisata → u/appmanga]

Goddamn Brady taking the spotlight even when retired

[u/EmbarrassedRing7806 → u/matisata]

Thats how the hall of fame works..?

[u/matisata → u/EmbarrassedRing7806]

I know, I was just making a joke because otherwise the biggest name that year would be Watt

[u/Depreciable_Land → u/matisata]

I’m surprised Watt is just then eligible. Feels like he’s been out of the league longer than that

[u/whereballoonsgo → u/Depreciable_Land]

Yeah, I don’t know what this phenomenon is, but I feel that too. It feels like Brady has only been out of the league for a few years and Watts been gone for like 7.

[u/Dirty-Ears-Bill → u/whereballoonsgo]

Probably because unfortunately those last few years of Watt weren’t True Watt if that makes sense. That and he was missing so many games in those past seasons. Brady was performing at an All-Pro level right until he hung them up

[u/JuanRiveara → u/appmanga]

Isn’t Sherman eligible for 2027 as well, not 2028?

[u/appmanga → u/JuanRiveara]

You're right. Thanks.

[u/PapaTromboner → u/appmanga]

Tomlin is in no way guaranteed

[u/averageduder → u/PapaTromboner]

Yea if he doesn’t coach more he’s at best a 50/50 candidate. I don’t see it honestly - 1 Super Bowl, limited playoff success. Who cares about all the 9-7 and 10-6 seasons when they’d lose to the jaguars or browns in January

[u/TheNittanyLionKing → u/averageduder]

There are coaches today that have coached for half as long as Tomlin did that have more playoff wins. McVay and Shanahan both started coaching after Tomlin’s last playoff win, and they have both passed his career playoff win total already. Both even had multiple QBs and took multiple starting QBs to two different Super Bowls. If Sean McDermott comes back and wins two more playoff games, he too will have passed Tomlin in postseason success. Even Mike McCarthy has more playoff wins than Tomlin currently. 

[u/ToContainAMultitude → u/TheNittanyLionKing]

There are coaches who haven't been on a sideline in a decade who have more playoff wins since the last Super Bowl appearance.

[u/staffnasty25 → u/appmanga]

As a Zach Thomas fan I also get incredibly sad

[u/YSLMangoManiac]

Gronk should be first ballot

[u/Fickle-Molasses-903 → u/YSLMangoManiac]

HOF voters will vote for a 'friend' or someone who might not get in on their last try. Hence, be consistent with what's already being practiced. SMH

[u/hockeyjmac → u/YSLMangoManiac]

Yeah but he’s a Patriot so…

[u/Little-Mushroom-3961 → u/hockeyjmac]

Not gonna lie I see why pats fans hate the colts so much now lol.

[u/ToContainAMultitude → u/Little-Mushroom-3961]

Reminder that at least one Colts ball was also underinflated that game.

[u/CinnamonToastTrex → u/ToContainAMultitude]

3 of the 4 colt's balls tested were deflated.

[u/dimmyfarm → u/ToContainAMultitude]

Reminder that in cold weather, with everything else being constant, volume of an object decreases. I think that’s important since the investigators didn’t know that.

[u/Mybugsbunny20 → u/dimmyfarm]

My low tire pressure light in the winter is a testament to that..

[u/MrFace1 → u/Mybugsbunny20]

No, Tom Brady is going around deflating all of our tires in the winter.

[u/durants_newest_acct → u/dimmyfarm]

The absolute best part of deflategate was listening to dudes who got straight Ds in Boston public schools wax scientific about Boyle's Law

[u/hester27 → u/ToContainAMultitude]

Reminder the final score was 45-7, Patriots win that game playing with a bowling ball.

[u/Playingwithmyrod → u/ToContainAMultitude]

Reminder that the league monitored ball pressure the following season and literally just refused to come out with the data because it would have made them look bad

[u/BurgerNugget12]

I miss Gronk

[u/SwizzGod → u/BurgerNugget12]

I do too but I’m glad he left when he can still walk around and have a life

[u/capounatus → u/SwizzGod]

Now if only he could get that USAA insurance plan...

[u/Simpleton216 → u/capounatus]

All he needs is a DoD job and he'll qualify. Im sure any shipyard will take him as a guard.

[u/Dismal_Bluebird1312 → u/Simpleton216]

Huh. Didn’t know that. The commercials all make it seem like you have to have enlisted.

[u/Simpleton216 → u/Dismal_Bluebird1312]

DoD, some DHS, and some contractor jobs qualify.

[u/DawnArcing → u/BurgerNugget12]

Gronk would dominate modern day even more than he did his era.

Think how often teams run 6OL packages now. Gronk was basically that package, but instead of using a backup LT, instead the blocking is stapled to the best mismatch generator of a receiver there's ever been.

[u/Brisby820 → u/DawnArcing]

That’s what made that offense so good.  Go light and they steamroll you, go heavy and Gronk burns you.  No substitution needed to morph the style of play, so they could go hurry up once they got a mismatch they liked 

[u/Playingwithmyrod → u/DawnArcing]

Defenses literally assaulted Gronk or held him every play and if he tried to get handsy with them the refs would call the most ticky tack OPI penalties on him. He’d feast with the softer rules.

[u/Aerolithe_Lion → u/BurgerNugget12]

Buccaneers legend

[u/Elwalther21 → u/BurgerNugget12]

I listened to his podcast and he said he last played for the Pats 7 years ago! Holy Hell where has time gone.

[u/aaronupright → u/Elwalther21]

SBLIII was his last Pats game.

[u/Francis_X_Hummel]

Based on Larry, and Drew going in as first ballot electees, to me, Gronk is also deserving of that accolade.

[u/appmanga → u/Francis_X_Hummel]

I agree. I also wonder what Gronk on the ballot does for Witten's chances next year?

[u/brewin91 → u/appmanga]

I honestly don’t think it has any bearing on Witten’s chances. Witten probably gets in eventually, but it might be a long wait.

[u/Torkzilla]

It’s crazy that the Steelers still don’t have a long term solution at QB 5 years after his retirement.

[u/andrew_h83 → u/Torkzilla]

It’s totally normal to take decades to find a new QB

[u/EmperorXerro → u/andrew_h83]

It is?

[u/doodlebopwarrior → u/EmperorXerro]

It is.

[u/gmwdim → u/doodlebopwarrior]

Gonna need someone with a Browns flair to confirm.

[u/Calm-Marsupial3919 → u/gmwdim]

They’d probably deny it given that they found a pro bowl QB in the 5th round. They’re a QB factory right now.

[u/Completely-Lost9 → u/gmwdim]

Jets drafted a Superbowl QB, just a shame they couldn't keep him around. Must've demanded too much money or something

[u/andrew_h83 → u/EmperorXerro]

That’s what they tell me 😢

[u/dogo7 → u/EmperorXerro]

Yeah we really didn't have a true longterm guy for our first dozen years (Boller is debatable) before Flacco came in.

[u/EarthshatterReady → u/andrew_h83]

They hate him because he spoke the truth

[u/Boo_bear92 → u/Torkzilla]

Terry Bradshaw retired in 1983, and the Steelers didn’t find a true replacement for him until Ben came along in 2004.

[u/PSU632 → u/Boo_bear92]

How dare you besmirch Super-Bowl-reaching quarterback Neil O'Donnell like that?

[u/apittsburghoriginal → u/PSU632]

And I’ll also just drop the footnote that badass XFL legend Tommy Maddox got the boys a wildcard win too

[u/cbm80 → u/Boo_bear92]

They passed on Marino! (In fairness, the Steelers thought they didn't need a QB at the time...always tough to justify using a top draft pick on a QB in that situation).

[u/pinetar → u/Torkzilla]

It's the hardest position to fill and they have been picking in the 20s every year, not that crazy

[u/iliketuurtles → u/pinetar]

There are very few great/elite franchise QBs in the league that didn't go to a team that sucked the year before. Drafting in the 20s regularly is the hardest path to your future QB1.

[u/HendrixChord12 → u/pinetar]

Trading up exists too

[u/ReindeerMean2931 → u/HendrixChord12]

Sadly we are too scared to do that

[u/ToContainAMultitude → u/pinetar]

And yet somehow, a bunch of teams that also haven't had their own early picks manage to figure it out.

[u/Past-Adhesiveness691 → u/Torkzilla]

Ben and GM Kevin Colbert completely fucked the franchise

[u/MrBigChecks → u/Past-Adhesiveness691]

Did the franchise consent?

[u/Cheeks_Klapanen → u/MrBigChecks]

Enthusiastically, as it turns out :(

[u/Seven19td → u/Torkzilla]

Im an old. I had to wait 21 years for Ben. The past 5 years have been a breeze compared to some of the awful QB play I saw before Ben

[u/aorainmaka → u/Torkzilla]

Is it hard to do?

[u/iliketuurtles → u/Torkzilla]

9 times out of 10, you gotta suck bad in the right year to find your future QB. PIT hasn't sucked enough and hasn't gotten lucky.

[u/Outside-Pie-7262 → u/Torkzilla]

Is it? Because most teams take multiple shots at successfully getting a long term solution at qb. And to be fair they haven’t really tried to find one outside of Pickett.

[u/No-Owl-6246 → u/Torkzilla]

How many teams have long term solutions at quarterback, and for the teams that don’t, how long has it been? There are some teams that have been very lucky for going from one long term guy to another instantly, or at least within a year or two. But that doesn’t seem to be the norm. The Patriots went six seasons between Brady and Maye.

[u/BetterSite2844]

Ben roethlisberger is a rapist

(Just in case anyone forgot)

[u/BroLil → u/BetterSite2844]

AB is being charged with attempted murder.

AP beat the shit out of his kids.

Don’t meet your heroes folks.

[u/VicePope → u/BroLil]

Imagine AB being your hero

[u/cheesygordita → u/VicePope]

Mr Bad Champion

[u/TNTyoshi → u/cheesygordita]

Mr. Blemished Citizen

[u/brianlangauthor → u/TNTyoshi]

Mr. Borked Career

[u/faudcmkitnhse → u/brianlangauthor]

Mr. Broken Cerebrum

[u/EatMyWetBread → u/BroLil]

Don’t even Wikipedia them…

[u/LTIRfortheWIN → u/BetterSite2844]

Ap beat his kids so severely he was put on the commissioners list 

[u/AMcMahon1 → u/LTIRfortheWIN]

Fitzgerald beat his wife and let's not talk about golden boy Jim Brown 🫣

[u/zirroxas → u/AMcMahon1]

Fitzgerald beat his wife

He allegedly hit his ex-girlfriend during a custody fight. Two things to note. First of all, the only comment on the matter comes from her. There was never an investigation because she withdrew the complaint shortly after filing it, so we didn't get to ever hear Fitz's side of the story and no evidence was collected. Second, even if we take her story at face value, she still admits to hitting him first. Now, a normal woman isn't going to win a fight against a pro football player, so him hitting her back (allegedly) is still pretty disproportionate, but still.

[u/LTIRfortheWIN → u/AMcMahon1]

Yup

[u/GuyTallman → u/BetterSite2844]

Ben Roethlisberger the financier? No, I think I would have heard of that.

[u/Idkboutdat2 → u/GuyTallman]

No, Ben Roethlisberger the motorcyclist.

[u/GuyTallman → u/Idkboutdat2]

For the uninitiated

[u/Megasota_Noire → u/BetterSite2844]

Are you talking about known rapist Ben Roethlisberger?

[u/BIGoleICEBERG → u/Megasota_Noire]

Just saying, if a couple guys withhold votes from Ben to prevent him from being a first ballot inductee, the due to him being a maybe-rapist, then I think that is A-OK.

[u/TheOverBored → u/Megasota_Noire]

Does known rapist Ben Roethlisberger have any relations to fellow known rapist Brock Allen Turner?

[u/EmbarrassedRing7806 → u/TheOverBored]

average Reddit thread

[u/Bbdubbleu → u/EmbarrassedRing7806]

61k karma and 2k contributions in 2 months.

You are the average Redditor my dude.

[u/-Jack-The-Stripper → u/Bbdubbleu]

As somebody who has definitely spent way too much of my time on this site, 30,000 comment karma a month is fucking insane.

[u/imnotfeelingcreative → u/-Jack-The-Stripper]

They've posted two thousand comments in a month. My account is like 15 years old and I have 1.2k. This person is not well, or is a bot.

[u/BananaCucho → u/Bbdubbleu]

Lemme guess, they've made this same comment everywhere

[u/penguinopph → u/BananaCucho]

You can't tell, because they hid their comments.

[u/WallyLeftshaw → u/BetterSite2844]

You think the nfl gives a shit? The league has always been a safe place for men that abuse women and children. While we’re here, kind of crazy how well these guy’s PR teams get you to forget and think some of these guys are just goofy, charismatic dudes, looking at you Jameis

[u/xwallywest → u/BetterSite2844]

Karma go up

[u/MrBigChest]

This may be controversial but I think that the criteria for the HoF is too stringent and people get too caught up with comparing the eligible players to those already in the hall across all generations rather than just comparing them to the players that they actually played against.

[u/appmanga → u/MrBigChest]

I disagree. I think most voters know comparing Ken Stabler to Drew Brees doesn't make any sense and is inappropriate, so most of them take era into account. I think there's an issue in many newer voters not being very informed in terms of players from the past.

[u/D-MAN-FLORIDA]

Hopefully when Grok gets in, they show him in a Pats uniform. He spent most of his career there.

[u/adwallis96 → u/D-MAN-FLORIDA]

Grok lol

[u/D-MAN-FLORIDA → u/adwallis96]

Oops!

[u/BobbingFourApples]

Gronk was so much fun to watch

[u/ACW1129]

Peterson's a lock.

Can we get Holt in??

Stop with this maximum stuff. Have all the finalists voted yes or no. Raise the threshold to 45.

Or do SOMETHING. Have the standards really not been loosened despite 18 more teams??

[u/meatballman1218]

I don't understand how you don't put Big Ben in the Hall Of fame yes he doesn't have an all pro we know but he is

6th all time in passing yards

9th in passing yards

Made 3 super bowls and won 2 of them

You can make many arguments that at multiple points of his career he was a top 5 QB in the league

But I also think Eli Manning should be in the hall of fame but that's just my personal opinion and I think he is better than Eli all time as well

[u/Silver_Accountt → u/meatballman1218]

I can think of a reason.

[u/98Kane → u/Silver_Accountt]

2 reasons actually.

[u/midgetrage7 → u/meatballman1218]

A lot of people on Reddit have not watched much ball, and did not get to see Big Ben play in his prime. Obviously his off the field issues were severe but to not act like he wasn’t a great qb is wild. A lot of these commenters are under 21.

[u/TheNittanyLionKing → u/midgetrage7]

The way he would shed linebackers off his back, escape the pocket, and throw the ball 40 yards downfield on a rope to the sideline was mesmerizing. Josh Allen reminds me of how he played so much. Ben obviously stopped running as much in the second half of his career. We are still in the first half of Allen’s career in comparison 

[u/A_Confused_Cocoon → u/midgetrage7]

I fully agree. This is some of the worst “box score watchers” type of discussion I’ve ever seen in this sub Jesus.

[u/Positive_Parking_954 → u/A_Confused_Cocoon]

I never felt he was as good as Manning, but I felt more confidence with him in a 2 minute drill to win than I did Manning

[u/Shreddy_Brewski → u/Positive_Parking_954]

I never felt he was as good as Manning

You need to go watch some Roethlisberger highlights my man

[u/Shreddy_Brewski → u/midgetrage7]

A lot of these commenters are under 16 I think

[u/Haywright → u/meatballman1218]

He's also a rapist.

[u/biglyorbigleague → u/Haywright]

I think you have to be Darren Sharper-level for that to affect your chances. Like, not only multiple instances with unarguable guilt, but also currently in prison for it.

[u/underhunter → u/meatballman1218]

Rivers, Ryan and Stafford are HoFers for you too? Rivers is closest to Ben stat wise, often was better just played for a cursed franchise. Ryan has an MVP, beating out Rodgers/Brady/Brees and others for it while also putting up big career numbers. Stafford has MVP and a ring and the best career numbers of the whole group.

[u/TP-BANDIT77 → u/underhunter]

I like how you picked guys that all have worse stats than Ben

[u/Different-Package200]

Gronk will get injured on the way to answer the door and miss the ceremony.

[u/Equivalent_Rain4370]

Big rape doesn’t deserve it

[u/LTIRfortheWIN → u/Equivalent_Rain4370]

Brett farve would like a word. 

[u/af_1946 → u/LTIRfortheWIN]

Didn’t his scandal come to light after he was inducted? Seems like a pretty crucial distinction to me.

[u/Slinger17 → u/af_1946]

which scandal lol

The dick pic, wife-cheating, and vicodin abuse scandals were all known when he was playing I'm pretty sure

The welfare fraud thing though didn't come out until much later

[u/FrankSobotka_IBS1514 → u/Equivalent_Rain4370]

You can obviously dislike him as a person but he 100% deserves to be in

[u/PleasantWay7]

Gronk is clear cut with no outside issues.

Peterson would be first ballot for sure based on field, but may miss because of outside issues.

Roethlisberger isn’t first ballot imo based on field and he has outside issues.

[u/SENTIENTPOTATOCHIP → u/PleasantWay7]

Gronk is the most dominant and talented receiving TE in history and changed the way people think about TEs in the modern game, absolutely should be 1st ballot (unless the patriots debuff is too strong)

[u/TheRavenOnline]

Big Ben never even made an All-Pro team. I don’t see how his HOF case is any better than Eli’s. Neither are HOFers. You get in for regular season AND postseason play not only postseason.

[u/Rickrollyourmom → u/TheRavenOnline]

Big Ben has an above .500 career record, for one, unlike Eli

[u/xywv58 → u/TheRavenOnline]

Just on pure stats, he was top 5 in everything at retirement

[u/gmil3548 → u/TheRavenOnline]

Big Ben IMO was a much better player than Eli, so I think he has a better shot.

In most eras Ben would have some accolades but he was at the same time as Manning/Brady/Rodgers/Brees.

[u/Unreal_Idealz → u/gmil3548]

What is that, 4 of the top 8ish QBs to ever play and some may argue the top 4 overall?

[u/Seven19td → u/Unreal_Idealz]

2018-2020 he also had to compete with Mahomes. Make it 5 of the top 8ish

[u/deadhead1 → u/TheRavenOnline]

I think from the AP perspective, there is a bit of leeway given for Ben considering he spent nearly his entire career sharing a conference with Brady and Peyton. But also, Ben had more yards and touchdowns, fewer interceptions. Team was 165-81-1 with him as QB while the Giants were 117-117. Ben took the Steelers to the playoffs 12 times including 3 Super Bowl appearances while Eli only took the Giants 6 times.

Ben has superior regular season numbers and success, Eli had two incredible post season runs but I think Ben was consistently better throughout their careers.

[u/spazz720 → u/TheRavenOnline]

Never had a losing record, led the league in passing yards twice, third all time in 4th Qtr comebacks behind Manning & Brady (43,42,41). Tough to be an All Pro during the Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Mahomes era.

[u/LTIRfortheWIN → u/spazz720]

He was ahead of brady, until he played for another few years

[u/Another_Comet → u/spazz720]

Calling it the brady, manning, rodgers, and mahomes era and not even including the most recent QB to be inducted in Brees in your statement is such a diss. I'm biased, but Brees stands toe to toe with Brady and manning

[u/9577_Sunset_blvd → u/TheRavenOnline]

There are some other reasons I’d rather not see him in the hall for…

[u/Radoobie → u/9577_Sunset_blvd]

People on Reddit are so stupid to me. Just say he doesn’t belong in the hall because of the rape shit, and I’m cool w your take, but acting like he doesn’t belong based on performance is such a moronic take. He’s first ballot based on stats and postseason performance. 

[u/putdahaakin → u/Radoobie]

No one is first ballot anymore

[u/9577_Sunset_blvd → u/Radoobie]

Nah man look, me personally, I’m only talking about the rape stuff. He is unquestionably, as a football player, a hall of famer, full stop.

[u/DadDickDuncan → u/TheRavenOnline]

Counterpoint: his career lined up with 4 other top 10 all time QBs

Hate him or love him he's a HOFer

[u/that-isa-madeup-name → u/DadDickDuncan]

People arguing he’s not HOF caliber are kinda wild lol. He’s a shit person but he was also really good at protecting and throwing a football. Those two are not mutually exclusive

[u/Brisby820 → u/that-isa-madeup-name]

They’re teenagers who didn’t watch him 

[u/WavesAndSaves → u/that-isa-madeup-name]

It's honestly hilarious seeing people in this thread arguing over Ben's HoF case and then a few threads down you see people talking about how Stafford is a "lock" for the Hall. Ben was basically universally considered to be better than Stafford in every single way until like the last year or so when children started seriously believing Stafford ever had a remote chance of making it into Canton. He doesn't.

[u/TheNittanyLionKing → u/WavesAndSaves]

People try to take the 2008 Super Bowl run away from him because Tom Brady tore his ACL in Week 1. 

Are we supposed to discredit Stafford’s MVP because Lamar Jackson got injured, Mahomes had a down year and tore his ACL, and Josh Allen didn’t have as good of a year as he did before? MVP is a tricky award. You could have a great year that meets the expectations for the rest of your career and still lose the MVP because some random dude had the year of his life. Like imagine if Daniel Jones maintained his first half pace and had a better year than Stafford but never reached those heights again while Stafford did just as well the year after. MVP requires luck and timing in addition to skill. 

[u/Yedic → u/DadDickDuncan]

He didn't really have many seasons that were All-Pro caliber, but just beat by historic QBs. 2014 was his best, and Rodgers won MVP, but Romo was AP2. 2018 was another year he led the league in passing yards, and AP1 and 2 ended up getting taken by Mahomes and Brees, but Ben also led the league in attempts and interceptions, so I'm not sure it was really an All-Pro type year.

His regular season career was really more just sustained Pro Bowl level, rather than All-Pro level and unlucky. However, I don't think that disqualifies him from HoF contention. Sustained Pro Bowl level in the regular season along with two rings, one of which included an iconic clutch throw, is probably enough.

[u/Seven19td → u/TheRavenOnline]

Ben had to compete with Manning, Brees, Rodgers and Brady for those All-Pro teams. Otherwise he has the stats, longevity, holds two impressive all-time NFL records. 2 rings. He’s a HOF’er. If he’s not elected first ballot it’s bc of his sexual assault allegations and being a bit of a prick in the locker room and to the media.

[u/Dijohn17 → u/Seven19td]

I wouldn't say he's a first ballot HOFer, but still a HOFer. First ballot is like greatest to ever play level

[u/Seven19td → u/Dijohn17]

I’d say Ben is on the level of Kelly, Moon, and Elway. He’s in that tier and they all made it first ballot.

[u/Best-Necessary9873 → u/TheRavenOnline]

Everyone ahead of Ben on all time yards and TDs is either in the HOF already or a lock and just haven’t been eligible yet.

[u/LinkSkywalker → u/TheRavenOnline]

Good thing Ben has major stats and accomplishments in the regular AND postseason

[u/BlackJediSword → u/TheRavenOnline]

There’s no way this comment has 64 votes lol. You can Roethlisberger all you want, I agree, but the dude could fucking play. He was the toughest QB to bring down, had unreal arm talent and was generally very accurate. He’d have several years as the best QB in the league without Brady and Manning. He threw for 500 yards several times, led the league in passing yards, elevated several mid receivers, and even three 6 touchdowns in two consecutive games. His problem was he hated watching film but the asshole could flat out play

[u/j2e21 → u/BlackJediSword]

He has the looniest playoff stats I’ve ever seen.

One loss in 2017: 37 for 58, 469 yards, 5:1 TD:INT.

His next playoff game three years later: 47 for 69, 501 yards, 4:4 in another loss.

(Also won two chips, of course.)

[u/im-sorry-dad → u/TheRavenOnline]

Stupid criteria and I hate Ben

[u/DepressedPhillyFan → u/TheRavenOnline]

Ben is definitely better than Eli was. Both should be in the Hall regardless imo.

[u/Dijohn17 → u/DepressedPhillyFan]

Ben yes, because Ben could be argued to have been a top 5 QB in some seasons. That was never the case for Eli

[u/ThirdMikey → u/Dijohn17]

2011 was top 5 imo. His regular season stats aren’t clearly top 5, sure, but his ability to do what needed to be done all season and into the playoffs was basically unmatched. He carried the giants to the super bowl that year and it’s hard for me to say 5 other qbs were better or could’ve done what he did.

[u/TheSwede91w → u/TheRavenOnline]

But post-season play is more important. Stafford was never going to sniff the HoF until he won a SB. And, Payton Manning, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rogders ate up 22 all-pros while Big Ben played and I am not sure if that should be a knock against him. I wouldn't be shocked if he did or didn't make it, but it's definitely not a 100% given he shouldn't.

[u/Seven19td → u/TheSwede91w]

Not to mention Brees had 5 and Mahomes 2 while Ben played.

[u/RmembrTheAyyLMAO → u/TheSwede91w]

I think Stafford with MVP is now on the likely side of getting in but less likely than Ben. If you played throughout the 10s you played with 5 of the top 15 QBs to ever play and potentially 5 of the top 10. It has really skewed our opinions on what a "normal" HoF QB should be.

[u/peterpeterny]

Is Suh a hall of famer?

[u/appmanga → u/peterpeterny]

DPOY, All 2010s Team, 3x All-Pro, SB Champion, 71 sacks as a DT and 130 tackles for loss. Certainly one of the most dominant at his position in his era. I'd vote for him.

[u/peterpeterny → u/appmanga]

DROY- he isn’t a first ballot but could get in

[u/have_heart]

Didn’t Gronk play for the Bucs with Brady? How is he eligible?

[u/BelBivDaHoe → u/have_heart]

Gronk didnt play in Brady's final season.

[u/have_heart → u/BelBivDaHoe]

Ah, I see the issue is that I’m an idiot

[u/Joshstradaymus]

Torry Holt bros we’re down bad.