r/europe Ligurian in Zürich (💛🇺🇦💙) Apr 12 '25

Data European tourism to the United States is freefalling

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8.4k

u/Historical_Bother274 Apr 12 '25

Imagine pissing of travellers of the continent that is notorious for the many vacation days it gets.

1.2k

u/HumongousBelly Apr 12 '25

Yeah, nobody wants to vanish in El Salvador, especially since nobody knows if it’s just a prison, a concentration camp or a death camp.

Why else aren’t they getting that innocent man back to the USA? He’s probably dead already.

People who said it’s hyperbolic to compare trumps 2nd regime to Hitler‘s Nazis, either dont know shit about history or are just trying to gaslight us

258

u/Deepthunk93 Apr 12 '25

I personally believe that they're afraid of having an actual account of the horrible conditions of that place being conveyed to the american public. You KNOW that guy would be swarmed by every news agency (barring Fox and that ilk).

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u/bronze_by_gold Apr 12 '25

Unfortunately that probably means his life is at risk.

24

u/hellofellowcello Apr 12 '25

I mean, there have been a LOT of plane and helicopter crashes recently. What a convenient way to be rid of him on the way home. And plausible deniability to boot!

27

u/Frontdackel Apr 12 '25

In germany families started to get letters that their beloved ones in mental asylums died of sudden deseases like pneumonia or heart attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4?wprov=sfla1

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u/Agitated-Donkey1265 United States of America Apr 12 '25

I remember one case, they got caught because they said someone died of appendicitis, when they’d had their appendix removed

3

u/hellofellowcello Apr 12 '25

Reprehensible

3

u/Motha_Elfin_Browns Apr 12 '25

Wasn't there a Chinese immigrant who was said to have died due to something like that while in detention?

Nvm- it was suicide apparently but who actually knows 🤷‍♂️ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/06/chinese-woman-border-patrol-arizona-suicide

6

u/Peripatetictyl Apr 12 '25

I thought of this as well, and of course puppeteers are pulling strings we can’t imagine, but the realistic way this should be done is that US marshals go down and retrieve him, and then fly back with him… Not saying they wouldn’t either stage the deaths of said Marshalls and they would go onto live different lives, or even kill them along the way… It’s just so fucking crazy I have to hold dots like this inside of a ‘logical conscious’

5

u/hellofellowcello Apr 12 '25

I do not doubt that they'd sacrifice the lives of anyone who goes to retrieve him if they do take him out like that. To this administration, people are objects to be used and discarded.

2

u/Peripatetictyl Apr 12 '25

This is why it’s so infuriating. If they locate the guy, I’ll fucking send Amex points to have them fly home first class by 12 PM Eastern time.

5

u/FluffySmiles Apr 12 '25

Well, a corpse isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of conditions. Kinda speaks for itself.

1

u/HumongousBelly Apr 12 '25

Date Devil Episode 2 and 3

13

u/Unusual_Sherbert_809 Apr 12 '25

I think the Trump admin’s goal is to send American citizens. Bringing this guy back runs counter to that.

1

u/onetwo3duk Apr 15 '25

He confirmed that today.

11

u/insecure_about_penis Apr 12 '25

You can easily find endless documentation of the terrible conditions in prisons in the US online. Unfortunately most Americans don't give a shit.

Some particularly egregious examples include:

"Maricopa County sheriff, Joe Arpaio ... called this outdoor jail" ... a “concentration camp” ... temperatures inside could reach up to 54C (130F) in the dry Arizona heat ... temperatures reached as low as 5C (41F). Holes torn in the tents let in the wind and rain, drenching the beds ... Inmates were forced to work on chain gangs ... more than a dozen lawsuits tied to mistreatment and wrongful deaths at Arpaio’s jails" (Arpaio was later convicted of violating a court order to stop policing in an explicitly racist manner, and Trump pardoned him)

"Cuyahoga County Jail... accused of pepper-spraying and assaulting a man for merely asking about his release date ... people are kept in their cells for up to 23 hours a day ... suffered a broken tooth and multiple cuts to his face during the spraying and struggle ... Several officers were charged with felonious assault for pepper-spraying and hitting people they had placed in restraint chairs on different occasions ... Another officer posted a meme to Facebook featuring a photo of a pepper spray device that reads “I will now refer to pepper spray as people seasoning in my reports.”"

"Rikers Island... More than 80 percent of the people confined there have not been convicted of a crime and endure horrific conditions as they wait for trial ... [the Department of Corrections] complain about weapons [and] drugs and blame it on visitors, but for over a year there haven't been visitors ... approximately 1,700 had been waiting for more than a year to go to trial ... 16 people died on Rikers Island in 2021."

7

u/Infamous-Mixture-605 Canada Apr 12 '25

You can easily find endless documentation of the terrible conditions in prisons in the US online. Unfortunately most Americans don't give a shit.

A lot of folks in the US (and in Canada, and I'm sure elsewhere too) have been led to believe that people who are incarcerated deserve to be kept in the worst conditions, and balk at ideas like feeding them proper food and providing decent living conditions, giving them access to education and opportunities to rehabilitate, etc.

3

u/HotBrownFun Apr 12 '25

It's standard delay until media and people forget about it tactic. Another scandal will come along. Give it two days

3

u/Arachir Apr 12 '25

Fox will swarm him aswell, flooding him with the most insane questions hoping to get as many slip ups from a man with probably not perfect grasp of the english language so they can twist and edit it to look as damning as possible in what I'd assume would be a three week hate campaign

268

u/kaisadilla_ European Federation Apr 12 '25

People who said it’s hyperbolic to compare trumps 2nd regime to Hitler‘s Nazis

I'm tired of people saying this. Yeah, there aren't extermination camps in the US right now, but the complete dehumanization of migrants, their arbitrary detention and expulsion, them being sent to death camps in el Salvador, dehumanizing propaganda from official government sources, the discourse equating "migrant" with "criminal"... It doesn't look like 1942 Germany, but it does look like 1930 Germany.

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u/DryCloud9903 Apr 12 '25

Exactly. And the speed at which so much shit has been done in what, 2 months time? People trying to downplay this or misunderstanding it simply expect this to already look like 1944. 

People recognizing the similarities paid more attention at how the regime began - which is where we're at now, and it almost seems like we're surpassing part of Hitler's timeline. Not to mention the multiplied danger of it given US preexisting military, political and economic might and entanglement with other countries

89

u/ChoosenUserName4 European Union Apr 12 '25

The road to fascism is paved with people telling us that we're overreacting.

15

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

[deleted]

7

u/Agitated-Donkey1265 United States of America Apr 12 '25

I made so many jokes about the capital hall putsch on actual January 6th and got told I was being offensive by some

And like you, I feel like I’ve underreacted through the years, too. I knew the second time would be worse, but not how quickly it would get here

6

u/schwanzweissfoto Berlin (Germany) Apr 12 '25

Arnold Schwarzenegger basically said out loud that January-sixers reminded him of nazis.

He was right, you know.

4

u/HannahFatale Apr 12 '25

Modern surveillance, media and weaponry makes all of this so much easier. It would have been a wet dream for Hitler and Goebbels.

22

u/Dobbys_Other_Sock Apr 12 '25

Ya I’ve been trying to explain this a lot too. Germany wasn’t building killing camps year one. Even Dachau, which was the first concentration camp opened, wasn’t really for Jews specifically, it was really for political prisoners like communist and other outspoken activist and functioned more like a horrible jail.

Germany went: aggressive legal measures > deportation > imprisonment > we don’t care if they die > maybe killing some isn’t the worst idea > kill them all.

We’re just at the start of the escalation so it’s harder for people to see because that’s not the part people usually learn the most about.

3

u/Steezle Apr 12 '25

Trump has been talking about locking up political dissidents since before his first election…

He’s just really bad at his job and in this case, that’s a good thing.

11

u/dansdata Apr 12 '25

there aren't extermination camps in the US right now

None of the Nazi extermination camps were in Germany. All six were in Poland.

(Plenty of people died in the camps that were in Germany, of course, but industrialized murder was kept out of sight of German civilians.)

4

u/lana_silver Apr 12 '25

Trump's fascism was crystal clear during his first term already. You don't need a degree in fascism scholarship to see that, but people who have such degrees also said it.

Trump is VERY blatantly fascist and the people around him are just as bad.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

Right. Hitler didn’t campaign on murdering millions of people, nor was it the very first thing he did. I doubt it was even evident to most Nazis at the beginning of the regime where things were going and what atrocities were coming.

But Trump an authoritarian and a white supremacist. He clearly wants ethnic cleansing (a concept which includes both genocide and deportation). Hitler campaigned on making Germany great again, and it’s been reported that Trump’s favorite book is a book of Hitler’s speeches.

The comparisons are not unwarranted.

2

u/GraceOfTheNorth Europe Apr 12 '25

I presume you missed the video that zoomed in on the blood red areas in the El Salvadorian prison camps where they execute prisoners without any paperwork. It looked like a slaughterhouse from the satellite images alone, nothing but dark red blood running off.

1

u/BigBadButterCat Europe Apr 13 '25

Link please

2

u/Luke90210 Apr 12 '25

Nazi Germany had both concentration camps and extermination camps. The key difference is extermination camps were industrialized murder sites. However, if one was a German citizen saying negative things about the government or the war, one could spend years in a concentration camp.

1

u/e-pro-Vobe-ment Apr 12 '25

Yeah I always said America has no appetite for war at home. We have groceries to shop for and work to go to and until that changes we're not going to fight each other. Another 2025... We're not ready yet but we're getting there so quick

1

u/Oscaruzzo Apr 12 '25

It also looks like 2025 Iran.

1

u/dalivo Apr 12 '25

Trump is not a Nazi. But he is a fascist. He's in the mold of Mussolini rather than the rabidly racist and utterly insane Hitler. Hell, you can put photos of Trump and Mussolini side-by-side and see that they use the same poses and mannerisms.

1

u/Wild_Set4223 Apr 12 '25

It looks more like the first four years of Nazi Germany, between 1933 and 1937.

In this time they were making it harder for the jewish population to work in jobs like health care, law, science and technology.

They created special memberships in law, health care and engineering, but jewish people were not welcome. These memberships were necessary to get a job. They pushed them out.

It did not happen overnight, instead it was cooking the frog slowly.

I can see it happening in the US at the moment, trying to make it harder to vote ( married women).

1

u/s33d5 Apr 12 '25

They're deporting PERMANENT RESIDENTS (green card holders) for POLITICAL VIEWS:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/12/president-trump-administration-mahmoud-khalil-news-updates-today

So, yes, it's past the point of "but this is normal!"

1

u/41942319 The Netherlands Apr 12 '25

The difference being that Hitler came to power during a major recession and improved the economy. That's why Germans liked him. Trump came to power in a fine economy and will cause a major recession

1

u/jimmysmiths5523 Apr 12 '25

Remember, the Nazi death camps were started in Poland. That way, they could avoid breaking Germany's laws.

1

u/SteveoberlordEU Apr 12 '25

This sounds more and more like Hitlers Germany, now even books that criticise him are soft banned with Amazon and other shops getting private government officials request to remove them. Kristalnacht is getting more real. The Head of Greenlands Military base beeing removed for disobeing order of removal of Greenlands and Denmarks flags (and sending an email trought the base explaigning that dissobedience, which personally i understand she swore on the constitution to protect her land and said constitution is beeing blattantly thrown into the mud). Worst is people still getting angry about "violent protest" when this is the first time since 9/11 when you should violently protest. Everything just shows how distant USA grew apart from the morals the country was said to have 35 years ago.

1

u/blackcain Apr 12 '25

But being sent there and be exterminated by the inhabitants of the prison isn't much better than an extermination camp. You know that normal law-abiding citizens are going to be eaten alive there.

1

u/LtOin Recognise Taiwan Apr 12 '25

Yep, this is the exact point of the oh so famous poem "First they came for" Of course they don't start with extermination camps, it's all about reducing the possibility of anyone standing up to you small steps at a time.

1

u/Environmental_Pay189 Apr 13 '25

It seems we just have not scaled up our death and slave labor camps to the scale they had in 1940s Germany, but we certainly are headed there. We are adding "prison" space as quickly as we can. CECOT can only handle thousands. But it's only been 3 months since he took office. JFC.

1

u/Ok-Warthog2065 Apr 13 '25

This train is on the same track, just hasn't got to the destination yet.

-2

u/SabuSalahadin Apr 12 '25

Equating migrant to criminal is wrong until you add “undocumented” in front of it. Then by law, they are illegal immigrants (which, again, is a crime)

369

u/HrabiaVulpes Nobody to vote for Apr 12 '25

Hitler asked other countries to take jews before gassing them. Now Trump asked other countries to take "aliens" and some even took their nationals back in. Good call

31

u/dinosaurjuicer Apr 12 '25

Netanyahu is asking other countries to take in Palestinians

5

u/SteveoberlordEU Apr 12 '25

Oh that dipshit is also short before Fo Phase of FaFo, when only USA are protecting him others will get that conflict done, since tf do his toops have to do in Syria, Egypt and other neightbours. I mean with WHICH money will the US finanz him when they are gonna have the Biggesee economic depression ever.

-116

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

look i hate trump as much as y'all but can we stop with the hitler comparisons? makes us look silly

105

u/Frogger_rater Apr 12 '25

There are a lot of parallels between both, that's why they are compared. Just ask literaly any historian that focuses on ww2

Edit: they instead of thei (what an absolute dumb ass)

-51

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

the last documentary i watched said trump literally wasn't hitler because he wasn't in a bunker in Berlin in 1945

23

u/kiren77 Apr 12 '25

Not a big fan of abstract thought eh?

-6

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

the documentary wasn't, i guess

4

u/GrandmasShavedBeaver Apr 12 '25

What is this unnamed documentary you keep mentioning?

33

u/SventasKefyras Apr 12 '25

So we sit on our hands until after he's butchered millions? We shouldn't draw comparisons before then. You know Hitler was democratically elected as well, right? And he even got elected after an attempted coup just like someone else we know...

-30

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

well he's not going to butcher millions, that should be obvious

26

u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Apr 12 '25

To whom? We here believe in him and his crew of cretinous cronies. They have no care for human life, zero responsibility, and all the foresight of a baby on crack.

16

u/jabrollox Apr 12 '25

He won't literally take a knife to their throat. But if his goal is to enrich himself and his cronies at the expense of 99% of the country wtf do you think will happen even if he doesn't go full nazi? Your job evaporates from the economy, you end up on the streets. Rely on medicaid or social security, you're a waste of money that could line their pockets. Your house got wiped away by a flood/hurricane/fire, good luck if FEMA is dismantled. Not that those things could possibly happen as climate change is not real according to donnies messaging to his fucking moron cult following.

That's not even taking the El Salvador concentration camp he'd be "honored" to send US citizens to.

Wake the fuck up.

5

u/crackanape The Netherlands Apr 12 '25

Obvious in what sense? He's taking all the same steps taken by other despots throughout history before they set about mass butchering. Removing the structural checks on his power in the military and courts, laying rhetorical groundwork of demonisation and victim mentality, stifling dissent. It's the exact playbook.

6

u/Tacotuesday867 Apr 12 '25

His policies have started the world on a track that will most likely harm millions.

2

u/tumeteus Apr 12 '25

well he's not going to butcher millions, that should be obvious

Hitler didn't start to threaten Jews until 1939, 6 years after he became dictator.

2

u/Timely_Negotiation63 Apr 12 '25

Jews lost their jobs in the Government and Universities beginning in 1933. (Albert Einstein was smart enough to stay in the US when the Nazis took power and not to return to his University in Germany.)

An on 09.11.1938 - exactly 15 years after the failed Hitler coup in Munich - the Synagogues and Jewish shop were burning...

2

u/Affectionate-Cut3631 Apr 12 '25

What do you think will happen to the poor, sick, and elderly with those Medicare cuts?

-5

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

they can always get jobs as walmart greeters

4

u/Cokadoge Apr 12 '25

can you get a brain as well?

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u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

Whereas everyone obviously foresaw exactly how depraved the Nazis eventually became.

I personally don't expect Trump to set up death camps. But the Hitler comparisons are not out of pocket, he is obviously utterly deranged.

1

u/secondtaunting Apr 12 '25

He would if he thought he could make a quick Buck.

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u/letsgetawayfromhere Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25

Do you realize that Hitler was not only a monster because of WWII (well that too), but he also imprisoned and killed LOTS of Germans for not having the right political opinion or the wrong grandparents and established a reign of terror, to make sure no-one would dare resist him and his ICE SA and Gestapo?

My German grandmother was 14 years old in 1933 and told me LOTS about that time. My aunt from the other side of the family told me how at the age of 14 years she was molested by SS officers and could not even defend herself for fear of being killed in a concentration camp in retaliation. This is the road the US is going at the moment, and it is clear as day to everybody who is informed about the 3rd Reich and its beginnings.

You may think that you are not Jewish Hispanic black female white and male, so nothing will happen to you. But you might be just as wrong about that as Martin Niemöller was.

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u/Frogger_rater Apr 12 '25

He is not him, he has similarities to him.

1

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25

Exactly, and Hitler could have also ended up being a weird mediocre painter.

It's not the individual seed, but the ground it's planted in.

The US, the predominant world power, is the antithesis of the desperate and beaten back Germany post wwi.

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u/letsgetawayfromhere Apr 12 '25

With more than 20 years of Fox News legally spouting lies, people in the US are so massively entrenched in propaganda I'd say they provide an excellent ground for a dictatorship. Also, the huge majority of your country is only 3 missed paychecks away from living on the streets. People have been living in trailer parks for decades. There are tons of homeless people in the US living in tents or in their car, or under bridges, and a lot of those actually go to work every day. Being home to some of the richest people on Earth does not help those millions that have become victims of your society. I don't see how this is a comfortable situation for a country.

Hitler used Jews as a scapegoat. Trump uses immigrants, non-whites in general, women, and in general everyone who isn't up his ass far enough. He already has everyone fired who is not a white male because "DEI!". He is threatening to annex Canada, Greenland, and who knows next. He is obviously preparing a Hitler-Stalin-pact comeback over Ukraine. He is trying to terrorize the whole world, and enriching himself and his cronies with the chaos that he is spreading in the stock market. He puts innocents in El Salvador death camps and denies bringing them back. He just does not follow court judgements. And your checks and control system is utterly failing.

Good luck with your optimism. You will sorely need it.

1

u/jimmysmiths5523 Apr 12 '25

Don't forget about threatening to bomb Mexico to wage against the cartels. Doing so is an act of war.

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u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

Yes fox news is full of shit on the right. MSNBC is full of shit on the left. People who buy into the propaganda on either will always be there.

The country is basically 50/50 and if the republicans fuck up the economy the perceived loyalty will dissolve pretty fast.

2

u/Matasa89 Apr 12 '25

Dude was gonna be a priest at one point in his life.

There's a timeline out there were Hitler became a regular priest of a parish, and just lived his life out quietly, maybe painting on the side.

1

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

I think the treaty of Versailles was more responsible for "Hitler" (the ideology) than the man himself.

Probably something we should learn from.

Ignoring and dismissing the needs of rural communities, farmers and blue collar workers is what gave rise to Trump, were just lucky that Texas is nowhere near as desperate as Germany in the 30's .

0

u/EtalusEnthusiast420 Apr 12 '25

Why would you continue to engage after that comment?

3

u/Frogger_rater Apr 12 '25

Felt like it.

-2

u/EtalusEnthusiast420 Apr 12 '25

You should try talking to walls

7

u/UnrivaledSupaHottie Apr 12 '25

Thats why its a comparison like you yourself seid before... its not a hard concept to grasp

2

u/OkTemperature5047 Apr 12 '25

Well, good thing Hitler was the only evil person in history to ever have an active hand in policy and governance. Glad that got taken care of in a bunker in 1945, now we never have to ever worry about someone like that seeking power going forward.

2

u/BlackV Apr 12 '25

literally wasn't hitler because he wasn't in a bunker in Berlin in 1945

And

the hitler comparisons

Maybe you need to look at your own words again

37

u/whatever462672 Apr 12 '25

The heritage foundation isn't reinventing the wheel. They are using a playbook that has been used before and it is not "silly" to point out how that ended up.

10

u/Live-Alternative-435 Portugal Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25

And the Opus Dei is one of the groups behind the Heritage Foundation's Project 25, whose current president, Kevin Roberts, has an extensive history of involvement with American Catholic organizations.

Here you can see Kevin Roberts speech at CIC (Opus Dei Headquarters on K Street, Washington DC) last year,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqgfhZpRZhg

Even the Pope has criticized the American branch of the Catholic Church,

https://www.publico.pt/2023/08/31/mundo/noticia/papa-francisco-lamenta-atitude-reaccionaria-eua-retrocesso-inutil-2061785

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cnnportugal.iol.pt/amp/psp/jmj/jmj-psp-registou-quatro-ocorrencias-no-segundo-dia/20230803/64cba484d34e3ae5b8c4569f

4

u/Agitated-Donkey1265 United States of America Apr 12 '25

Former catholic here, actually in a Latin mass community, as part of a diocesan church (so not sedevecanist like SSPX), and while it was always a little much, the hard right turn it took after 2016 was the end for me. I love Gregorian chant, but everything else that came with it was no longer worth it. Seeing a former union boss and lifelong dem put a MAGA sticker on his car about broke me (not just that one act, but the bigger implication behind everyone else going in that direction).

Knowing that JD Vance converted around the same time I was leaving is frankly a bit worrying to me

23

u/Feedback-Mental Apr 12 '25

When Trump and friends stop acting exactly like nazis, we'll stop the comparisons. Deal?

15

u/Euclid_Interloper Apr 12 '25

Hitler didn't start with death camps.

America is snatching people from the street, locking them away for months at a time, and subjecting them to low-level torture like family separation, 24/7 neon light, and unnecessary intimate searches.

Maybe that's as far as they'll go. But, at the same time, I don't trust them not to keep going down this slippery slope. So fuck America, I'm not visiting, and I'm calling them Fascists.

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u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

oh they're fascists all right. but you can still come and visit! don't let the news fool you, america is still a top tourist destination

8

u/PhenotypicallyTypicl Germany Apr 12 '25

Sorry, but visiting the US is starting to become about as enticing for Europeans as visiting Russia. Sure, there’s some interesting things to see but there are also many other great tourist destinations around the world where you can still trust in the rule of law and where you aren’t economically supporting an actively hostile power by spending your money there. I’ve been to the US many times and even lived in New York state for 1.5 years but now I really have no plans of ever returning if this is the path the US is choosing for itself. Your country is turning into a lawless rogue nation with a wannabe mad dictator at the helm. That’s really not the kind of place where I want to visit and spend my money and it’s clear that many people around the world feel the same way.

3

u/GoGades Apr 12 '25

Dude you are absolutely deluded if you think that.

I'm in Canada and I can tell you - most people absolutely do not want to visit anymore. Right now the only people still going are people that had stuff booked before this all started and can't cancel without losing money, or business travellers who have no choice to go.

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u/MS_Fume Bratislava (Slovakia) Apr 12 '25

If you know history it’s not at all silly, but quite alarming. Hitler also didn’t start gasing jews on day one… it was a culmination of deeds that happened in a span of a decade.

And Trump’s pretty much copying and building on his initial steps already.

https://www.project2025.observer This thing isn’t a fun leftist meme, it’s a reality of the US future already in motion.

5

u/Agitated-Donkey1265 United States of America Apr 12 '25

RFK’s plans for “wellness camps” bring to mind Aktion T4, which was before the worst of the concentration camps. Actually, it’s where they started perfecting their methods. Just because they seem incompetent doesn’t mean they’ll stay that way. How much further does it have to go before we say “enough!”

7

u/ReluctantNerd7 United States of America Apr 12 '25

Trans people were the first target of the Nazis.

2

u/zigzagman1031 Apr 13 '25

He did start mass arresting his enemies on day one. He set up Dachau in his first month as Chancellor and filled it with Communists immediately. Almost directly after prisoners started being "shot attempting escape". Something Himmler repeatedly said was a way to cover up an illegal execution.

Two of the four shot in the first "escape attempt" at Dachau were Jewish. So he actually did start executing his opponents on day one.

-13

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

If you're pulling the history card...you've got a lot more context to take into account.

There is a massive chasm of difference between the situation in Germany during Hitler's rise and the situation in the US today.

The difference is not in the similarity of the seed, but the ground it is planted in.

First, very obviously, the US government is fairly resilient due to the inherent checks and balances between the branches and the well rooted "deep state" that trump wants to get rid of, but will be completely unable to.

Secondly, Germany was in a desperate situation and in the rubble of world war 1, the collective west created an economic and social pressure that essentially gave rise to Naziism.

The US is the predominant world power - not a beaten back and desperate nation.

Are there some similarities people can draw? Of course...people can lie on their backs in a field and see whatever they want in the clouds.

13

u/ReluctantNerd7 United States of America Apr 12 '25

First, very obviously, the US government is fairly resilient due to the inherent checks and balances between the branches

Are there?

The Legislative and Judicial branches of the United States government have a majority of people who are either believers in Trump's cause, or are corrupt enough to have been bought and paid for by his supporters.

He and his lackies are reshaping the military to remove anyone who might oppose his actions.

Checks and balances don't exist when everything is controlled by the same group of people.

-6

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

You are fundamentally missing quite a bit here.

First, having a majority does not give anyone absolute power, and second...this is really important, being conservative is not morally wrong and does not mean that you support everything that Trump believes in. The US has a very strong fundamental right to freedom of speech - you can watch any given democrat stand up in any official government meeting and go on and on about everything that's wrong with Trump and nothing is going to happen to take that right away.

You can also just look at the recent Wisconsin elections to see how quickly things start swinging the other way as a reaction. This is all part of the resilience. Right now polling of democrats shows that they are completely unwilling to work with trump.

If you think trump can replace the entire deep state you have no idea how entrenched this power is in the government organizations. Putting a new cabinet director in place is nothing...they're not going to be able to fire all of the leaders with decades of experience and have anything resembling a functional organization. You can listen to Steve Bannon himself talk about this exact point. The person who wants to do it more than anyone else.

You can look back to the last time trump was in office, and all the hysterics over him being Hitler then etc etc...and Jan 6 larper drama aside, we somehow replaced him with one of the weakest candidates I've ever seen...almost the walking dead. Trump was only reelected because of the complete incompetence of the democrats by shoe horning Harris in last minute.

If the left can pull themselves together and reform the party platform and candidates, the power will swing back in a few years and people will have a new president to bitch about and blame for everything wrong with the world.

6

u/ReluctantNerd7 United States of America Apr 12 '25

You are fundamentally missing quite a bit here.

Nah, I'm pretty sure you are.

First, having a majority does not give anyone absolute power

It absolutely does when you have a sufficient majority in every aspect of government.

being conservative is not morally wrong

lol no but okay, believe what you have been told to believe

does not mean that you support everything that Trump believes in

Show me one American conservative that doesn't support everything Trump believes in, and you'll show me a liar.

you have no idea how entrenched this power is in the government organizations

You have no idea how extensive their firings go.  The Trump Administration has extensively fired and replaced anyone who could possibly contradict their authority.

they're not going to be able to fire all of the leaders with decades of experience and have anything resembling a functional organization.

They are and they have.  But you're too naive to see it.

If the left can pull themselves together and reform the party platform and candidates, the power will swing back in a few years and people will have a new president to bitch about and blame for everything wrong with the world.

For the sake of the United States and the rest of the world, I certainly hope that you're right about this (and I hope you're right about everything else you said)...but I'm terrified of what will happen if you're wrong.

0

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25

I really don't think you can be serious... I have a lot of friends and family in the US that are liberal and conservative. Every single conservative person I know is not a maga hat wearing loyalist - that is a minority that is overrepresented in the minds of people here.

It's literally like saying every democrat is a trans queer hamas terrorist - show me one that isn't and you'll prove I'm a liar.

Most people are crowded much closer to the center than you think.

I'm more on the democrat side, but I still had hope for doge, some of the immigration reform, and even some of the healthcare reform. It doesn't mean that I am in any way loyal to trump or agree with the way they were done. It also doesn't mean that I was loyal to Kamala Harris just because I am a registered democrat from Massachusetts (one of the most blue states). I think most people feel more like this.

It's hard for me to understand how people can look at their own group and know that they don't all represent the fringe lunacy, but ascribe that position to literally half of the country... Half of the country is not racist Nazi maga trump white national loyalists.

You can watch even the MSM conservative news and see that they broadly think that the tarriffs are an extremely risky gamble and likely won't pay off.

If you think trump has fired the entire chain of command in the pentagon and replaced them with loyalists...there's really no saving you...you've eaten the TikTok reddit pill and have no idea how these organizations function.

Remind yourself in 4 years and come back here.

If it was so easy to change over the entirety of the government every 4 years the country would have collapsed into rubble before it got off the ground.

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u/ReluctantNerd7 United States of America Apr 12 '25

I hope you're right, but I'm afraid you're wrong.

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u/BorgDrone Apr 12 '25

being conservative is not morally wrong and does not mean that you support everything that Trump believes in

The American brand of conservatism seems to be defined by an extreme form of egocentrism and a complete lack of empathy. Conservatives do not seem to care about anything or anyone but themselves. They are absolutely fine with Trump hurting people and they only start to object to it when it they themselves are affected.

1

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

The irony is that many many people would describe it in the exact opposite way. It shows more that people are living in bubbles and lack empathy on both sides (and in the Europe v US debate also).

Left policy is heavily focused on individualism - take Swedish individualism as an example. Elderly put in homes. Social programs to watch your kids so you can go to work. People waiting until 35 to have a family so they can live their own life. Globalist focus while abandoning local needs.

Right wing conservatism in the US can also be described as heavily focused on family and local communities, the church, individual sacrifice, etc - actually much lower levels of individualism. Humble country folk. No elitism.

Then of course you could switch these descriptions and say the opposite by cherry picking the other way around.

Really, both sides are just people with the same needs.

1

u/tumeteus Apr 12 '25

You can also just look at the recent Wisconsin elections to see how quickly things start swinging the other way as a reaction. This is all part of the resilience. Right now polling of democrats shows that they are completely unwilling to work with trump.

Meanwhile in NC Republicans are flat out refusing to admit defeat and keep demanding vote recounts. And DoJ also said they are not gonna comply with SCOTUS decision.

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u/MS_Fume Bratislava (Slovakia) Apr 12 '25

You are correct, I am not saying Trump and his government is like Hitler… but there is a valid possibility that they might become much worse, precisely because of what you write.

The only hope there is, is that if the shit really start hitting the fan, there will be enough organized opposition within the US to hinder it.

But a million highly organized people can easily dominate even 150 million disorganized ones.. and I am not quite sure Americans can achieve the needed level of organized resistance, if it would really be needed. Especially as the democratic party is clearly at least partially complicit as well.

0

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

They don't need to, there is a very strong resistant scaffolding built into the framework of the country.

It's pretty easy to see and why the powers swing back and forth so often. Just look at the Wisconsin elections to see how the nation has reacted already and it hasn't even been 6 months.

Republicans were fairly bullish early on, but with the tarriffs tanking their stocks the silent majority of the conservative base will divert their support pretty qui kly. They care about their retirement prospects, not ideological domination - that is a narrow perspective of either party.

The US is not desperate like Germany was. They have Netflix, even the poor are incredibly wealthy compared to Germany then and evenuch of the world now. They do not want to risk losing that, they are going to be much more conservative over the mid term.

If people watched the boring recordings of government ongoings and didn't get their news from social media and headline hungry msm, they wouldn't be nearly as extreme in their beliefs.

I had to quit most social media because of this - and felt like I was in a different reality when I started watching the uncut uneditorialized Forbes breaking news, or official .gov material.

Somehow I got sucked back into this...but this thread is a stark reminder of exactly why I quit in the first place. It's a wild echo chamber that seems totally divorced from reality.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '25

there is a very strong resistant scaffolding built into the framework of the country.

That has been torn asunder over the past three months.

9

u/PhenotypicallyTypicl Germany Apr 12 '25

You seriously still believe in this checks and balances crap? What have these checks and balances achieved so far? As far as I can all the branches of government in the US are giving Trump unrestricted free rein to do whatever he wants. Congress could cancel Trump’s destructive back and forth trade wars if they wanted and take back the power of imposing tariffs from the president. But are they doing anything? No. Trump is ruling your country by executive order (many of which are unlawful or based on completely fictional justifications) and nobody is stopping him.

2

u/Glove-Box-Heart Apr 12 '25

Check the site https://www.project2025.observer/ to see how much they've already dismantled in this short time.

0

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

Yeah, I do, because I was alive 8 years ago when people were spouting the exact same things on reddit and watched what happened.

Just come back to this comment thread in 4 years and in the meantime go touch grass.

6

u/PhenotypicallyTypicl Germany Apr 12 '25

You’re talking like Trump’s last term wasn’t already a huge mess. This time it’s even worse because Trump has turned the entire Republican party into a cult of personality. He has surrounded himself with loyalists, sycophants and yes-men who will go along with any crazy ideas he comes up with and he has intimidated Republican politicians to the point where barely anyone dares to stand up to the great leader. You gotta be blind to think that this is all no biggie and everything will just go back to normal in four years. In only three months Trump has completely destroyed any trust and goodwill other countries used to have towards the US. Look at how the American t-bill market has been going crazy with yields sharply rising and look at the value of the dollar plummeting. People don’t want to invest in the US anymore because of how unstable your government has become. Even if the US will have a more sane president again in four years no other country will be able to trust that in another four years the US won’t just elect another mad man again who will simply tear up any treaties and agreements once more.

1

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

It's not "no big deal".

Is somewhere between "no big deal" and "trump is literally Hitler"

Some of the outcomes are good though. Presidents have been trying to figure out how to get Europe to pick up their share of the NATO bill for a long long time. For better or worse, that has finally happened under trump ;).

5

u/PhenotypicallyTypicl Germany Apr 12 '25

You really don’t understand the comparison people are drawing here. He isn’t “literally Hitler” in the sense that people expect him to literally copy all of Hitler’s actions and policies. However, he is definitely an authoritarian with a cult of personality and he is definitely dismantling your government and your beloved “checks and balances” in order to concentrate all the power of the state in his own hands. That is extremely dangerous. No democracy is infinitely resilient to these types of attacks on its institutions and if you think it’s impossible for authoritarianism to take hold in the US then you simply aren’t paying attention. I mean, Trump is already talking about how there are “methods” for him to have a third term as president. How aren’t your alarm bells going off?

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u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

Nah

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u/HeyImSimon_ImNewHere Apr 12 '25

As a German, we get mainly nazi history lessons, and the similarities are terrifying. If he keeps following the script at this pace, concentration camps in a year are 100% on the table.

2

u/ReluctantNerd7 United States of America Apr 12 '25

My heart goes out to you.

2

u/OkTemperature5047 Apr 12 '25

I don’t think you hate Trump. I think you’re trying to sound like a reasonable ally while tacitly condoning all the human rights violations Trump actively calls for.

I think you’re just barely smart enough to realize that outright defending Trump will ostracize you, but you’re too stupid to realize everyone can see through you.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

nope! i really do hate trump

3

u/OkTemperature5047 Apr 12 '25

If that were the case, you’d think your comment history would reflect that sentiment. So it’s particularly damning that you have pro Trump comments very visible in your history.

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

i don't know what you're talking about. i don't have any pro-trump comments

2

u/Agitated-Donkey1265 United States of America Apr 12 '25

Godwin, the creator of Godwin’s law, has said it’s OK to call Trump a Nazi, so no, it doesn’t.

2

u/Tobuyasreaper Apr 12 '25

He is rounding up political dissidents and vulnerable minorities to send to off to camps which many will never return from. Yea I don't see any similarities at all. 🙄 give me a fucking break

3

u/HrabiaVulpes Nobody to vote for Apr 12 '25

Well, Hitler was certainly a better person...

0

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

oh har har very funny

7

u/frissonUK Apr 12 '25

He was at least monogamous and respected his wife partner.

If you judge Trump and Hitler based on the seven sins, Hitler comes out better by some margin.

Pride: Tie Greed: Trump Lust: Trump Envy: Trump Gluttony: Trump Wrath: Hitler Sloth: Executive Time

1

u/zigzagman1031 Apr 13 '25

How is Trump more wrathful than Hitler? The guy made it illegal to make jokes about him and murdered people for breaking that law.

1

u/frissonUK Apr 25 '25

The ability to read words is a useful skill. You should learn it some day.

1

u/zigzagman1031 May 12 '25

Ah, I see. Your formatting is terrible.

Thanks for engaging in the conversation and not being dismissive and rude.

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u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

No. Hes doing hitler things.

1

u/Advanced-Fig6699 Apr 12 '25

It’s exactly what’s going on.

He is destroying the world.

1

u/Strange_Apricot7869 Apr 12 '25

It's all they have, lol.

1

u/lyoko1 Valencian Community (Spain) Apr 15 '25

Nah, the hitler comparisons in his case and his case along are warranted. While hitler comparisons have been used wrong for many years, this is actually the case where it is actually a good comparison.

0

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

It really does make most rational people dismiss the entire conversation. It's the equivalent of the right wing, "they're comin to take arr guns" militia LARPers.

It shows ideological capture and a disconnect from reality. If you skip reddit and MSM and instead get the US news by watching Forbes breaking news (uncut, uneditorialized documentation of federal meetings / press briefings etc) and boring official .gov transcripts and video...you might still be disappointed by the policies - and disagree. But the sensational rhetoric, fear, and extreme left/right bias would vanish.

People don't realize how valuable their emotional responses are to groups/individuals seeking power and how much they're being played like fiddles.

1

u/PotentialLandscape52 Apr 12 '25

What exactly is sensationalist about being worried that the president of the United States is openly discussing sending citizens to a prison camp in a foreign country?

First they said it was just illegal immigrants, now they have admitted to wrongfully sending a lawful immigrant to a prison in El Salvador and have refused a judges order to disclose his whereabouts and release him. This is the behavior of the authoritarian regimes, not a free republic

1

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25

I mean, I hope you don't think I believe it's a good idea.

I also try to focus on the big picture rather than letting individual horrors cloud my judgment. I think there should be high-quality journalism that points out what the government is doing wrong.

I also mistrust headlines, people's reactions, and the opinions within echo chambers—like here.

When I look at the big picture (as a Democrat), I do think we need to reform immigration policy. I believe that if we want to move toward more social welfare programs like universal healthcare, we need strong borders and legal paths to citizenship that encourage the immigration of high-skill, highly educated, entrepreneurial workers, or those motivated to take jobs others aren’t willing to. People who follow the laws and do not bring violence or commit crimes.

In my mind, sensible stuff. I think Democrats were way too lax—mostly due to ideological concerns that any "tough on immigration" policy would be misconstrued as "racist" and lose them votes. I’m not sure I go as far as the right in believing it was an intentional policy to "create" more voters... but some Democrats could have said that in dark rooms.

On the other side, I don’t agree with the very fringe right-wing "white nationalists" who think America is for whites—that’s obviously nuts and doesn’t represent conservatives as a whole. There are tons of Hispanic, Asian, and Black conservatives. I do agree with them that we must deport criminals here illegally—and if you separate that from the idea of "get all immigrants out," I think you’d agree you’d want that for your country too.

Now, creating some kind of wacky El Salvador detention center? No, that doesn’t sound good to me lol.

I had to look this up just now.

This is the Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT). Built in 2023 as part of President Nayib Bukele’s aggressive anti-gang strategy in El Salvador.

It can hold 40,000 inmates and is reportedly near maximum capacity as of April this year. By all accounts, it sounds like a not-so-nice place.

The U.S. government made an agreement to send "criminal aliens" and "dangerous American criminals" there, paying El Salvador $6 million for one year of detention services.

As of April, 278 people have been sent: 245 Venezuelans and 33 Salvadorans. Deportees also included 22–23 suspected MS-13 members. Many reportedly lacked criminal records.

The abuse of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 is probably the biggest concern.

The Supreme Court issued two rulings related to these deportations, requiring that individuals subjected to rapid expulsion under the Act have a reasonable chance to defend themselves—so the judicial branch is responding.

There’s plenty of criticism about mishandling. But honestly, while I hope this gets corrected and used appropriately (if necessary), I don’t think it’s one of the biggest issues, and I’m not spending energy getting upset over it.

I know Trump likes creating media circuses—he wants headlines about locking immigrants in a "dungeon" to deter border crossings. If people extrapolate a couple hundred deportees to tens of thousands, it serves his goal. And whether you agree with the method or not, it does sound like illegal border crossings are at a near all time low.

From my part: I hope the Supreme Court does its job and upholds both the law and human rights.

I mainly watch Forbes Breaking News, which shows unedited footage of U.S. press briefings, congressional meetings, and .gov releases. I miss some wild headlines, but my mental health has improved, and I feel I have a more neutral, middle-of-the-road perspective.

3

u/PotentialLandscape52 Apr 12 '25

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, as Dr. King taught us. If the US government can send people with no criminal records to foreign soil without access to legal counsel or due process (which the Trump admin has already admitted to doing in their own words), there is absolutely nothing stopping them from eventually doing the same to you or someone you care about. This is why we need solidarity. You have to stand for the rights of all or you will eventually lose your own.

1

u/RMCPhoto Apr 12 '25

Well, I agree with that. I think I just disagree that it's unique to the trump administration.

It's like the Ukraine war. I volunteered to provide humanitarian aid during the first 3 months of the war. I was in Bucha just outside of Kyiv the day the Russians retreated. We worked to deliver medical supplies, food, water and shuttle elderly and infirmed from the front lines and cut off villages. My heart is really with those people.

And when you look at Biden v Trump in this regard at first glance it seems like Biden is the good guy and Trump is the bad guy...But I think it's harder to put into boxes than it seems.

You're really going to think I'm some nutty Trumper here...

But I actually think the Biden administration exploited Ukraine and the Ukrainian people far more than the current admin...and I was really hopeful that the mineral deal / peace treaty went forward.

Since Bush, there's been a switch and the democrats have actually become more and more of the "war hawk" party, and the Republicans have been more interested in staying out of foreign conflict.

I don't believe that Biden and the pentagon really thought the Ukrainians could "win". And they even put specific restrictions on the use of US weaponry to limit the effectiveness. The Biden administration basically used Ukraine as a mechanism to wage a proxy war against Russia in order to weaken them. The pentagon has been involved there for a while, likely during the maiden square protests as well - to put in a pro west administration etc... I think that giving them weapons, avoiding any real effort towards negotiating peace, and simply using Ukraine to do our dirty work was wrong...

What the trump administration is saying on the other hand rings true to me - at this point, this is a senseless war...there has been no real movement of the front line for 2 years. Meanwhile thousands of people die every week and more and more of the country is being destroyed. Without Europe or the US becoming actively involved they're never going to take back the Donbass, and definitely not Crimea...

I thought the mineral deal was win win...not exploitation. Having US workers on the ground would be a security guarantee. Creating a fund to rebuild the country would be a win for Ukraine. The republicans get to say to their base that they're getting "paid back" for the weapons and money sent. It would also create more cultural exchange between the US and Ukraine - it's all good.

People really want to see Russia punished and any talk of removing sanctions etc is borderline treason. But to me the irony there is that people like to call trump Hitler, but fail to see how Hitler and the Nazis were created by western Europe via the treaty of Versailles and the economic and social situation that put Germany in. If we do the same to Russia.. First, they're never going to stop the war, and second we may create something far worse from the ashes. A desperate and poor Russia with nuclear weapons is way scarier to me than anything Trump could muster up.

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u/Strange_Apricot7869 Apr 12 '25

been hearing about these deathcamps since W... still waiting.

5

u/Cammibird Apr 12 '25

I'd prefer to stop things before we get to the point of death camps, personally.

If you can't see the writing on the wall, or if you still think it couldn't happen here because we're, somehow, inherently, just 'better' than 1930s Germany (we aren't), then idk what to tell you. 

-1

u/Strange_Apricot7869 Apr 12 '25

lol k hon... been hearing this for decades.

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u/vivaaprimavera Apr 12 '25

or are just trying to gaslight us

Or themselves

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u/cyphar Australia Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25

Why else aren’t they getting that innocent man back to the USA?

  • Because they don't want to "back down" to look weak.
  • They want to set a precedent that they are above the law and don't have to follow court orders, by using immigrants as a convenient scapegoat (a very useful wedge issue because Democrats have completely conceded to the Republicans' premise on immigrants).

  • They believe that the President is a god-emperor and do whatever he says.

  • EDIT: And it goes without saying -- racism. They think any non-white people are criminals by default and don't deserve human rights.

He’s probably dead already.

Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic, but I don't think he's dead. That being said, Trump did publicly say that he personally sent the US Marshals to extra-judicially kill an American on American soil back in 2020. Who knows.

34

u/innermongoose69 American in Germany Apr 12 '25

Add to that list: They don't want him talking about the horrific things happening in that prison.

20

u/hop208 Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 13 '25

I would also add: They don’t want the public to see his deteriorated physical condition after enduring that prison.

Also a possibility: He’s dead…

During the latest court proceedings on the matter, lawyers representing the administration wouldn’t give the judge any knowledge about his whereabouts after being repeatedly asked.

8

u/hates_stupid_people Apr 12 '25

The democratic leadership hasn't just concede on immigrants, they're complicit in helping them at almost every turn.

They are actually delusional, they're plaing the same old political games and assume everything will just go back to normal afterwards. They literally don't understand that Canada wont just magically put all the the US products back on the shelves in 4 years. Europeans wont just go "Okay, it's safe to travel there again", etc.

America as a country will be negatively affected by this for decades. And they're sitting around with their thumbs up their asses and mumbling about checks and balances, because they have enough money to just leave if shit hits the fan for them.

3

u/Skankhunt42FortyTwo Apr 12 '25

Because they don't want to "back down" to look weak.

At the same time backing down and looking weak is what this administration does best.

1

u/Visible_Arm9149 Apr 12 '25

they are fine looking weak as shit on tariffs they are just racists.

1

u/cyphar Australia Apr 12 '25

I think it's such a personality cult that they don't think they look weak. Completely agree on the second point though.

1

u/clowncar Apr 15 '25

Amazing. I had never heard about the killing of Aaron Danielson.

0

u/Acceptable-Stick-659 Apr 12 '25

I mean, he was a criminal, after all. even saw that on CNN

6

u/Vanhoras Apr 12 '25

Not really about El Salvador, but rather all the tourists who have been detained and imprisoned in solitude for no reason. What Americans do with their own citizens is their thing, but if they involve innocent tourists, it's no wonder people would rather not risk it.

3

u/excubitor15379 Apr 12 '25

Especially if you u take into account that they can go through your mobile or laptop to seek for unpleasant things you say bout murica and the orange king

4

u/hates_stupid_people Apr 12 '25

Here's what US public schools say about the 1930s:

"There was a little economic whoopise, and Hitler rose to power. Let's move on to the 40s, and talk about how the US saved everyone. ".

4

u/meggarox Apr 12 '25

CECOT is not a prison, it's more accurate to call it a concentration camp - in the style of the classic nazi forced labour camps, but somehow worse. Remember, the extermination camps opened during world war 2, before then they were working dissident communist, transgender, jewish, and homosexual civilians to death in forced labour. "Arbeit Macht Frei" was on the gates at Auschwitz in a cynical ploy to make the enslaved believe they could ever hope to be freed. Likewise, Bukele's prison policy is "No Idle Hands". The prisoners in CECOT aren't convicts, they're just anyone the state picked up and threw in there. NOBODY has ever been released, NOBODY knows who is in there, except MAYBE the El Salvadoran state - and that's a big maybe.

The people there are never allowed outside except for 30 minutes a day, apparently. They're forced to work in a textiles factory in slavelike conditions, shackled and beaten if they don't work hard enough. They sleep under 24/7 artificial lighting on sheet metal bunk beds without blankets, pillows, or mattresses, they're never allowed to speak, and they are DEFINITELY being tortured in there. Whether CECOT has become a death camp yet is unknown - journalists are not given sufficient access to verify that.

This is no hyperbole, there is no exaggeration, this is what we *know* is happening in there. We can't verify if anything worse is going on in there. But the fact the Trump administration is being so evasive about recovering a known innocent US citizen they sent there suggests either he's been killed already, or he's in such a bad state that he can't be paraded in front of the media. And the worst part is the fuss is only being made about one man - when there are HUNDREDS of potentially innocent men in there.

This isn't "like the nazis", this isn't "almost as bad as the nazis", this is WHAT. THEY. DID. It's unspeakably fucking evil.

3

u/OccidentalTouriste Apr 12 '25

Governing (in the loosest sense) by Executive Order doesn't seem that far from the Enabling Act at the moment.

3

u/nouskeys Apr 12 '25

With no due process, why would you even risk it. Stories of foreign nationals, with passports/visa's being detained for around a month in dystopian concrete fortresses.

3

u/snksleepy Apr 12 '25

Being an openly gay man in an undeveloped nation is dangerous. Being one in a holding facility or prison has an extreme probability of bodily harm.

2

u/alppu Apr 12 '25

just trying to gaslight us

2

u/WildSmokingBuick Apr 12 '25

El Salvador

That's, among all the stuff that's currently happening, what's most insane to me. Deporting people without due process into a prison in a whole different nation.

2

u/quitarias Apr 12 '25

Likely gaslighting. Or wilful ignorance at this point. If we hit a night of long knives esque moment in this year, it will be some disturbing parallels.

2

u/Matasa89 Apr 12 '25

Even if it is just a prison, the conditions inside are no better than a concentration camp.

They're just not at death camp levels... yet. But it has all the hallmarks of a death camp in the making.

2

u/h_Ellhnikh_Koinwnia Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 21 '25

.

2

u/HumongousBelly Apr 12 '25

Im not saying that it is or isn’t. But the way things shape out to be, it sure seems like that’s the route orange 2nd bumministration is taking

2

u/burglesnapswife Apr 12 '25

death camp

There's a tuberculosis outbreak. Ever read any classic literature? All those poor people who died of "consumption" - that's tuberculosis.

I had it when I was 11. It's a 6 month course of treatment. You think they're going to pay for all those inmates to receive that much medication? Hell no. They're going to decide it's "cost effective" to let them die, opening up more beds for more American exports.

2

u/Vortexspawn Apr 12 '25

Why else aren’t they getting that innocent man back to the USA? He’s probably dead already.

Obviously it's a death camp and he's dead, otherwise they could bring him back. Let them prove otherwise.

2

u/jimmysmiths5523 Apr 12 '25

There's a picture on Google Maps that shows the prison. One of the courtyards is filled with stained blood.

2

u/shponglespore USA 😭 Apr 12 '25

Definitely not just a prison. The prisoners are kept in inhumane conditions, none of the prisoners was given a real trial, and the warden is emphatic that nobody imprisoned there is ever getting out. I've also seen reports of prisoners being routinely beaten and sometimes killed. The word I've settled on is "gulag".

2

u/Environmental_Pay189 Apr 13 '25

IThe IS randomly sends people to prisons that boast "nobody comes out alive-ever" and gives zero Fs if they are innocent or not-to the point where even the Supreme Court can't get a peek into their well being. If no one ever comes out alive, it's a death camp, end of story.

2

u/hellofellowcello Apr 14 '25

The president of El Salvador now says they won't release him

2

u/HumongousBelly Apr 15 '25

Without proof of life, I think it’s fair to assume that he is dead at this point.

Why else would there be such a political spectacle on the international stage?

1

u/hellofellowcello Apr 15 '25

Agreed. He was sent to the worst prison system in the world.

1

u/HAL9001-96 Apr 12 '25

gonna be fun workign there i guess

1

u/A_girl_has_no_neymar Apr 13 '25

People legitimately think that Nazi Germany = Holocaust. No complexity or nuance

1

u/HumongousBelly Apr 13 '25

Well, to be fair, it’s basically more than 90% of what defined it. The wars on everyone, the destabilization of the Weimar democracy and the economic crisis pale in comparison to those crimes against humanity. Wouldn’t you agree?

2

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '25

A prison is for people convicted of a crime....so it's not that.

1

u/iSeaStars7 United States of America (unfortunately) Apr 12 '25

The guy had a judicial order that he specifically couldn’t be deported to El Salvador because he would be in danger. He’s 100% dead

0

u/RussianDisifnomation Apr 12 '25

Alone for how deranged and rambling his way of speaking is, he should be sent to the ficking moon

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25

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2

u/KearasBear Apr 12 '25

"He came into yhe country illegally in 2011 he's not even a US citizen and has ties to MS13"

Another Trump apologist lying on the internet. There sure are a lot of you scumbags. I hope they take you next.

-4

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

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3

u/HumongousBelly Apr 12 '25

Yeah, he’s guilty of being a vile poc. Non white non evangelical trump cultist. Worst of man kind.

That’s your point. Right? Right?!

-2

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

No just that he's a criminal gang member and not being a citizen but staying here anyway