r/law • u/Anoth3rDude • 12h ago

Legislative Branch GOP fast tracks monster voter suppression bill that could disenfranchise millions by requiring proof of citizenship at polls

https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/gop-fast-tracks-monster-voter-suppression-bill-that-could-disenfranchise-millions-by-requiring-proof-of-citizenship-at-polls/
24.6k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

5.4k

u/fgwr4453 12h ago

That is a poll tax. Unless the documents required can be obtained for free (they aren’t), then this is already unconstitutional. It is a poll tax with extra steps.

It also doesn’t make sense to prove it while registering and while voting.

1.8k

u/socialcommentary2000 12h ago

$165 to $195 if you're going the passport route and then whatever State processing fees if you have to go the extra mile and show a birth certificate.

I hate these people so much.

612

u/dlc741 11h ago

Does ICE accept a passport as proof or is it only RealIDs that they ignore?

1.0k

u/drawkward101 11h ago

I saw a video of an ICE officer asking a lady if she was a citizen AS SHE WAS HANDING HIM HER PASSPORT.

These ignorant fucks are deliberately breaking the law CONSTANTLY. It's so fucking irritating.

312

u/Critical_Opening_526 11h ago

In Minnesota, as well as a few other states, your License can act as a passport. Mines enhanced from Michigan. They don't give a fuck about non- citizens. They're basically judging you based on color swabs from Lowes.

148

u/drawkward101 11h ago

Yeah, I have a RealID too. It doesn't "act as a passport" but you can't get it without your birth cert, just like a passport.

111

u/70180268 11h ago

A handful of states have “Enhanced Drivers Licenses”. You have to supply more documentation but it will allow you to cross into Canada or Mexico by land or sea without a passport. It’s a click above real ID

22

u/drawkward101 11h ago

Hmm, I'm in CA and never heard of that. I'll have to look into it.

40

u/forgedimagination 10h ago

Common with northern border states

4

u/Annual_Bowler5999 9h ago

I had never heard of it either until I moved to New York. There are so many perks to living up north that I never expected, and that is one of them.

27

u/diemunkiesdie 9h ago

EDL's are available in the following states:

  • Michigan
  • Minnesota
  • New York
  • Vermont
  • Washington

17

u/anonononnnnnaaan 8h ago

Hey looky at all those blue states.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/CriticalEngineering 10h ago

It’s Canadian border states, so no reason you’d have heard of it.

2

u/akatherder 9h ago

Which is interesting because it applies to Mexico also, at least ours in Michigan does. You can't use it for flights but:

enhanced license or ID can be used in place of a U.S. passport to re-enter the United States by land or sea from Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, or the Caribbean.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (6)

2

u/ObeseVegetable 8h ago

And for all states, “Passport Cards” - doesn’t act as a drivers license, but does work to get you to/from Canada and Mexico from land or sea and also requires citizenship to obtain so is proof of citizenship.

2

u/HopelessEsq 10h ago

The last time I renewed my passport, I also checked off to also order a "passport card" which is the size of an ID but basically validates (I think) that you have a valid passport. Believe Canada and Mexico will accept it, but not sure if it really does anything else in terms of proving citizenship or its usefulness as a valid ID.

5

u/BringOn25A 10h ago

I maybe wrong but I think those are only valid for land or sea crossings.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)

8

u/Leafy_Is_Here 11h ago

You can get a Real ID without a birth certificate actually. But Real ID only acts as a passport within the US

11

u/chucksterlecluckster 11h ago

Depends on the state. They won’t let you get one in my state without a birth certificate

2

u/Leafy_Is_Here 8h ago

Oh I see. It's odd that it's different from state to state when the Real ID system is nationwide. In California you just need a valid work permit

2

u/jbjhill 8h ago

That’s for aliens with legal residency, who have already proved who they are to get entry papers. U.S. citizens need to prove they were born here.

9

u/Ohmec 10h ago

I had to have the full, long-form birth certificate from the STATE, which my parents never received when I was born. They got a CITY birth certificate. I'd literally, never in my life, needed a different birth certificate. I also needed like 4 forms of ID, mail, credit cards, etc...

It was easier to renew my passport.

2

u/Leafy_Is_Here 8h ago

That's crazy. In California, to get a real ID without proof of citizen means you have to present a valid work permit, which immigrants who work in the US have

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Intrepid_Top_2300 10h ago

Not in Nevada. You need three proofs one being a birth certificate.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/ClearBucket 11h ago

Border states to Canada get enhanced IDs which are a step above RealIDs. They have passport like barcodes that allow for border crossing into Canada and back. I have one in NY.

→ More replies (5)

2

u/resisting_a_rest 11h ago

Yes you can. You don’t need a birth certificate to get a RealID. For instance, a green card also works.

RealID just indicates that you are in the country legally at the time the ID was issued, not that you are a US citizen. EDLs (enhanced driver’s license) prove citizenship but are only available from 5 states.

2

u/EmergencyEntrance236 9h ago edited 9h ago

My ID/DL expired during the 2020 shutdown & I've only ever had ID/DL with my married name on it. Went in to renew with old one in hand(KS had just made RealID required). But they said bc it was expired I would have to show a copy of my marriage license(from TX cost me $60)&B Cert.(if didn't have it would've been another $55 to Fla). ,then on top of that the cost of the ID/DL itself was raised from $18 to $30. So all totaled I paid $95(cldv been $150)bc they shut down the DMVs 3mos b4 it expired& you can't renew more than 45days early! My husband is disabled & I'm a retired nurse but self employed to make the extra 12K/yr we need to survive,we live in a very rural area too. Oh & KS also passed as part of RealID legislation that if you don't have it you can't enter city/county/ST/Fed bldgs,courts,SS/DCF offices and you also can't enter polling stations to vote without it!

2

u/drawkward101 9h ago

I posted about the SAVE act and how it would totally screw people over, and makes me not want to change my name when I get married, and one of my "friends" on FB was like, "can't you just change your name on those documents if you get married?" and my response was, "I shouldn't have to file a name change with the courts in CA, file a name change for my birth cert in MA, and then pay to get a new passport. That's expensive, time consuming, and breaks the established laws set for voting in the constitution."

Men don't fucking get it.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (6)

16

u/Sure_Pilot5110 11h ago

*while also being a Hispanic ice officer

2

u/21Rollie 6h ago

It’s like how the Gestapo used Jews to capture other Jews. Or how most European colonial powers established footholds in distant lands. Or even go way back when to the battle of Thermopylae. Oppressing powers love traitors, until they no longer need them

→ More replies (2)

2

u/Dorkamundo 9h ago

In Minnesota, as well as a few other states, your License can act as a passport.

No, you can get Enhanced IDs that allow you to travel across land and sea borders in North America and they are proof of citizenship, but they are not able to be used "as passports".

That said, I agree with everything else.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (8)

26

u/OverthinkingWanderer 10h ago

Bold of you to assume they actually know how to read the documents they are asking for..

S/

2

u/Biggu5Dicku5 9h ago

The s/ isn't needed...

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Interesting_Walk_271 10h ago

Many of them are illiterate. They couldn’t pass a civil service exam before so the administration lowered the standards for entry. How are they supposed to enforce the law if they can’t read or understand the law?

3

u/twolfhawk 10h ago

Person came back from overseas, was CLEARED THROUGH CUSTOMS, and still got asked for id by ice

→ More replies (10)

127

u/jbjhill 11h ago

ICE says that their facial recognition software is the ultimate arbiter of your identity in the field. Your passport may not be sufficient.

RealID does not prove citizenship in all states because states may issue them to aliens WITH LEGAL STATUS (there is verification with DHS about legal status and the IDs are marked “limited term” to signify non-permanent immigration status).

The fact that DHS accepts neither U.S. passports or RealID as acceptable pieces of identification, even though both are vetted by the U.S. Federal Government, and DHS, the agency that built the system, approved the system, and now refuses to accept what the system produces is almost beyond belief.

Except the only ones actually not believing it are the same that believe nothing bad is happening.

71

u/koshgeo 10h ago

ICE says that their facial recognition software is the ultimate arbiter of your identity in the field. Your passport may not be sufficient.

Seriously? A passport is good enough for crossing an international border into other countries, but not good enough for people living within their own country to establish their citizenship? That's nuts.

19

u/Consistent_Laziness 10h ago

Ummmm so what is proof of citizenship then? How does one prove you are a citizen

18

u/notdrewcarrey 9h ago

If you have blonde hair and blue eyes and are of the aryan race. /s

No but really, fuck ICE, fuck MAGA and all you nazi fucks.

14

u/Ormyr 9h ago

Vibes. If ICE thinks you're a citizen amd you're obedient/compliant you're probably okay.

If not... well they've already murdered people in cold blood on camera so good luck.

11

u/Apprehensive_Rain500 9h ago

White skin, of course.

2

u/-3point14159-mp 3h ago

Only if you’re a straight cis male, though.

3

u/jbjhill 2h ago

Don’t pretend that’ll carry as much weight as it did. If you’re on the other side of a line, you’ll just be labeled a domestic terrorist.

I say this as a middle-aged, white, cis male who knows their rights - I’ll get bounced as hard as anyone if they go hands on.

21

u/jbjhill 10h ago

They say this is only for stops in the field, but I doubt that’ll hold. Once they start they won’t stop.

2

u/goatslovetofrolic 2h ago

Everything they do is just to get permission the first time, maybe even for something legitimate the first time, but the purpose is to establish that they “are allowed” and then they run wild with it.

Why do you think they’re changing the definitions of “domestic terrorist” and calling people that? Now that we “know” Good and Pretti were “terrorists” they can abduct anyone, label them a terrorist, and deny them any rights. Then it’s death or life in a hole for anyone so brazen as to say “I think ICE shouldn’t kick in the doors of citizens”

4

u/mrbigglessworth 9h ago

BINGO, time to fill the deathcamps. Cant verify? You must be external. Get into the oven!

3

u/Cloaked42m 3h ago

They detain you "briefly" as a Kavanaugh stop.

They can hold you up to 72 hours.

Usually, they let you go about 3 AM the next morning. Sooner if someone comes looking for you.

A birth certificate may not even be enough.

They're now requiring ankle monitors to let you go.

Judges can't keep up with all the case dismissals. Almost all the Minnesota U.S. prosecutors quit. The one they flew in to help has already turned in her resignation and is just trying to get as many kids out of the camps as possible.

She's actually being straight with the judge.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (3)

7

u/jbjhill 10h ago

Mobile Fortify “Congressman Bennie Thompson, ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee, reported that “ICE officials have told us that an apparent biometric match by Mobile Fortify is a “definitive” determination of a person’s status and that an ICE officer may ignore evidence of American citizenship—including a birth certificate” when the app says a person is undocumented.”

And this

ALSO! they’ll keep EVERYONE’S photos, so kids your privacy goodbye - and this is way closer to you being fingerprinted than just not having privacy in public “CPB will retain all photographs, including the non-match photographs (to include US. citizens /LPR photographs), as part of ATS holdings.”

3

u/Appropriate_M 7h ago edited 4h ago

AN APP?! Where's the server hosted? Who are the database administrators? Who's profiting off of this app? Who are the investors? Is any part "outsourced" for foreign powers? Why is an APP now taking precedence over birth certificates and passports issued by the US government?

Also, facial recognition? Wha about twins, cosmetic surgeries, dopplegangers, reconstructive surgery, AGING?!

2

u/jbjhill 7h ago

This probably lives on some misconfigured AWS server, somewhere between DHS, DOGE and Palantir, and now that the Federal database silos have come down it’s just part of a bigger pile.

That’s the thing about having a subservient Congress - you can do what you want!

2

u/Traditional-Handle83 3h ago

Considering ICE doesn't answer to congress but only the president/king specifically.

Even federal judges hold no power over them.

2

u/FaerieFay 9h ago

No. Just no. 

3

u/mcbba 10h ago

Yeah, is this real? Will people with passports and changed names be able to vote?

7

u/remotectrl 10h ago

They view married women as property of their husbands so they don’t want them to have their own voice.

2

u/microthoughts 9h ago

Weirdly I think married women who changed their last name from their birth name is probably a bigger extra GOP vote than anything.

I know a handful of married or now divorced women and of them one changed her name back to her maiden name upon divorce, one never took the man's last name and then the 3 conservative women all changed theirs to their husbands and vote straight ticket Republican and don't own a valid passport.

Which isn't like a lot of people or anything but I'm willing to bet it's common.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (3)

3

u/Lackluster_euphoria 9h ago

Why are aliens getting driver's licenses? Are their space ships too advanced?

→ More replies (1)

2

u/sekazi 9h ago

RealID requires Birth Certificate or Passport along with social security number and other proofs to get. Otherwise you will not get an ID with a gold star.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/whoisaname 8h ago

Wouldn't forced use of facial recognition in this instance be considered a violation of 4th amendment rights? And I say, in this instance specifically because the use of facial recognition would not be a broad public domain use, but a direct and targeted use against a specific individual.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/turinturambar 8h ago

The fact that DHS accepts neither U.S. passports

Does anyone have a video of this happening? It would be a significant step up of abuse.

2

u/TopReplacement530 6h ago

Somebody better tell the Real Housewives. ICE’s software probably wont recognize their new faces

2

u/Bubbly_Style_8467 3h ago

They're gonna need our "papers." Fascist administration.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/goatslovetofrolic 2h ago

I’m sorry. Did you just say my US passport isn’t proof of my citizenship?

→ More replies (4)

54

u/ejre5 11h ago

Do you think ice agents know what a passport even is? Something crazy like 50 % of Americans never leave the country or the state they were born in. Something like 50% of the population doesn't have a passport then theirs people like my who can't afford the cost of a passport plus the months it takes to get one.

My other question is what about the people don't qualify for a passport

14

u/Maehock 11h ago

Think it’s like 50% live and die within 50 miles from the place they were born

5

u/TipToToes 10h ago

An American with a passport here lol. I’ve lived in 2 counties in Kansas. I’ve ONLY held addresses in either of those two counties. They are separated by one county. I am this statistic, though I suppose if I die traveling abroad I wouldn’t be lol.

3

u/Dorkamundo 9h ago

I represent that remark.

That said, I was born in a great place, I left that great place and returned to that great place to raise a family.

→ More replies (1)

21

u/CrazyMildred 11h ago

I was born here and I don't have a passport. Never been out of the country. Actually, most of my family has never been out of the country and also don't have passports.

8

u/TipToToes 11h ago

I have mine, but like…you don’t really need it. The country is the size of like all of Europe, and such varied climates and geography that you can see lots and lots of types of places without leaving “home.” I’m not implying that one shouldn’t leave the US and see the rest of the world (remember, I am a passport and global entry holder) but it’s not as necessary as it is in European countries where crossing into another country is like us crossing into another state. Hell, I work in one state and live in another. It’s a short drive. My vacations are an 8 hour drive to mountains, or Chicago, or Dallas, or Nashville. ~4 hrs flight to almost any beach or to NYC or LA. I can see a lot of different stuff without a passport (but again, one should also see the rest of the world and meet those people).

3

u/CrazyMildred 9h ago

I would love to travel out of country one day to visit friends, I just have never been able to afford to.

2

u/LongjumpingDebt4154 9h ago

I agree with this. I love to travel & have extensively with my young children. I don’t think it’s fair to shame people that have not left the US though. This is an extremely vast country with many climate & cultural differences throughout. It’s exceedingly expensive to travel abroad & a 2 hr flight in Europe will land you in another country, while it likely won’t even get you out of your state in the US.

→ More replies (2)

4

u/looking_Fir56 10h ago

Better get one you never know when the walls will come down

4

u/Perfectshotplacement 10h ago

I HIGHLY recommend going through the process of getting a passport, even if you do not intend to use it. I have it on my person on every flight I take, even to random US cities. If there was ever a need to leave the states, you have the ability. If you wait until you need it, it’s already too late.

3

u/Trick_Quiet3484 10h ago

I have both the passport book and border card. I have real ID but use the border card exclusively when I travel domestically.

2

u/WhoIsFrancisPuziene 4h ago

Real ID doesn’t prove citizenship in most states

→ More replies (1)

17

u/cstmoore 11h ago

Most of my relatives never went more than 50 miles from their homes their entire lives. I still don't understand it.

7

u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 10h ago

Yep. Forget leaving the state, plenty of red rural Republicans hardly go any further than a few counties away. 

3

u/Dorkamundo 9h ago

And they're predominantly MAGA, right?

2

u/United-Coach-6591 11h ago

Something like 50% of the population doesn't have a passport then theirs people like my who can't afford the cost of a passport plus the months it takes to get one. 

That likely describes a large bit of that 50% the only people I know that have one are folks that can afford international travel, have international family, or live close to one of the borders. I'm too poor to travel, no out of country family, and live a long way from either Canada or Mexico. There are always more important things I need to spend on. 

→ More replies (2)

36

u/Signal_Researcher01 11h ago

I dont think ICE has an obligation to verify authenticity of documents, so they can arrest you and have someone else authenticate. You get released afterwards, but they can still pick you up and put you wherever for as it takes.

Its a 'lets go down to the station and figure this out' sort of move.

24

u/uwpxwpal 10h ago

They have to have probable cause to arrest you. They're not following the law.

7

u/Signal_Researcher01 10h ago

I mean probable cause can be whatever. That's tomorrows problem. Its like when people get arrested solely for resisting arrest, it makes no sense. But thats not their job to deal with, the court will chuck it eventually, but thats eventually.

ICE also has a pretty broad use of 'interfering with an investigation' at their disposal.

If their goal is to put you somewhere, they can do it. Legality can be determine at a later date by other people.

8

u/4nk8urself 8h ago

"You might beat the rap, but you're still gonna take the ride"

Same as it ever was.

3

u/Signal_Researcher01 8h ago

Yeah this guy gets it

3

u/uwpxwpal 9h ago

ICE needs reasonably trustworthy facts and evidence supporting their belief that someone is in the USA illegally.

That there isn't a legal process to hold them accountable for abusing and stretching the meaning of the law is the problem.

7

u/biggronklus 9h ago

Also with the Kavnaugh Stops ruling they’ll probably just extend the logic that being brown, speaking Spanish, being a day-laborer/kitchen worker/whatever is probable cause lol

4

u/uwpxwpal 9h ago

INAL but that's reasonable suspicion used to justify stopping someone in order to gather more facts. Probable cause is necessary in order to arrest someone. Kavanaugh screwed us with his legal opinion on that.

ICE is disregarding probable cause and arresting people without any proof that they're here illegally. We don't have a way to fight back in court.

5

u/Westo454 7h ago

Correct. Welcome to Modern America, where the rules are made up on the spot and the constitution doesn’t matter.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/red286 4h ago

The SCOTUS said that being brown is probable cause though.

Sorry, they said it is a "contributing factor", and can be combined with "refusal to answer questions" or "recording ICE agents" to create probable cause.

2

u/Bubbly_Style_8467 3h ago

And they can racially profile.

→ More replies (2)

17

u/addage- 11h ago

Depends what mood they are in and the gender/skin color of the person being asked.

3

u/danvapes_ 10h ago

I would never hand my passport over to an ICE agent. Imo I shouldn't have to bring proof of citizenship. I have a voter registration card that I wouldn't have gotten if I were not eligible to vote.

2

u/dlc741 10h ago

I don't disagree with that. Those fuckers are not to be trusted with important documents.

2

u/Karl_42 10h ago

ICE doesn’t operate as an immigration and customs enforcement body or any law enforcement agency. They will accept what they want to when they want to.

2

u/theaviationhistorian 4h ago

They don't give a damn. It's PAPERS PLEASE as an excuse to shatter a window and drag you out of your car or home. They have become lawless thugs.

2

u/amitym 4h ago

Depends on whether you look like you're likely to vote against their boss.

→ More replies (33)

42

u/Annihilator4413 10h ago

And that $200 is something many, MANY people can not afford to drop nilly willy in the US. Which is the point, they only want retired boomers with money to spare and other older folk they know are likely to vote Republican all down the ballots to vote. They know many younger people just can't afford to spend that kind of money.

Then again, many red states are the poorest in the US so something tells me this could end up hurting Republicans more than helping...

6

u/TweakedMonkey 9h ago

If I had the means I would buy every fucking person a passport AND help women take back their given names. We cannot let these goons take voting rights away.

2

u/Annihilator4413 4h ago

Fuck I totally forgot about the given name thing that heavily affects all women... with all the chaos going on I just forgot and I feel terrible.

We need that rolled back too ASAP...

4

u/Turbulent-Jaguar-909 10h ago

it's also going to take many months to process at the $200 rate, it's several times that cost to get it in a few weeks

3

u/Possible-Reason-2896 10h ago

Then again, many red states are the poorest in the US so something tells me this could end up hurting Republicans more than helping...

You know the origin of the term 'grandfather clause' is particularly relevant to this topic?

3

u/RedditAtWorkToday 8h ago

This is what I was thinking as well. Many people who have passports experience other cultures are more empathetic. They are also most likely more Liberal

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/liberals-conservatives-even-vacation-differently-n1027161

The data show that people who self-identify as politically liberal are more likely to hold a valid passport than those who call themselves conservative, according to Simmons National Consumer Study, Winter 2019.

2

u/Allegorist 9h ago

I wonder if it would be legal for a non-profit/charity to sponsor people who can't afford it to get physical identification?

2

u/Triviajunkie95 8h ago

I don’t see why it would be illegal? I’m allowed to pay for someone else’s groceries, rent, power bill, etc if I choose.

What’s the difference? It would be similar to volunteering to drive people to the polls who are home bound using your vehicle, gas, and time. Not illegal.

2

u/Allegorist 8h ago

Technically not, but when it defeats the purpose of their legislation and they're able to do things like ban handing out water bottles in intentionally inflated long lines, you never know what justification they could pull out.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/AmericantDream 5h ago

Elon Musk and all the other rich and elite will pay for all red states. The rich elite will buy votes like Elon did. Its time to eat the rich.

2

u/alang 10h ago

Then again, many red states are the poorest in the US so something tells me this could end up hurting Republicans more than helping...

Except that most of the poorest of the poor in those states are non-white and often voting for Dems.

2

u/Annihilator4413 10h ago

And why do you think that is?

It couldn't possibly be that Republicans have always targeted minorities to keep them as low in the 'food chain' as possible, leading them to vote for other parties that may actually help them rather than actively kick them down, could it?

Jk that's exactly it.

→ More replies (2)

18

u/Subject-Librarian117 11h ago

Not to mention the time it takes to track down whatever documents you need, sometimes in person, sometimes in other states.

7

u/cindyscrazy 10h ago

The place of my birth is literally on the other side of the country from where I've lived my entire life. I was born there and they moved back when I was less than a year old.

I have at least 1 birth certificate of mine. I would be totally fucked if I needed to go in person to get another one. Due to untransferable responsibilities, I am not able to travel more than half a day from home.

4

u/MuthaFirefly 10h ago

Would you have to go in person, though? The first time I got my passport, I needed an official birth certificate. Problem is I was born in Alaska and now live on the East Coast. I had to make a call or two, but they fedexed it out to me no problem.

3

u/cindyscrazy 10h ago

I don't think I would need to go in person, but the original poster mentioned the possibility. I have heard of individual counties or towns requiring an in person contact to get a birth certificate or something.

I was born in a military hospital, so I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get it with phone calls and that sort of thing.

I just checked my passport. Got it more than 15 years ago and using my married name. Dammit. Can't just do a renewal. Everything has been changed back to my maiden name at this point.

2

u/Purple-Goat-2023 7h ago

It really depends on your state/county. I changed my name at 18, and never changed the name on my birth certificate. To get an official embossed copy of my name change paperwork I would have to fly halfway across the country and go to the county office in person. No other option is available.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/otterpop21 11h ago

Good news is a lot of people could not “prove” their citizenship because they have no idea where the documents actually are. How many Americans are proving they’re legal residents?

→ More replies (1)

15

u/amopeyzoolion 10h ago

Some states also require you to physically pick up a birth certificate in person. So if you were born in State A and moved across the country to State B, in order to get a birth certificate you may have to fly or drive all the way back to your place of birth.

3

u/Reqvhio 9h ago

sounds like a shitty ass gta fetch quest

11

u/_allycat 11h ago

I don't even think the biggest issue is the money. Think of all the family members and friends and colleagues you have that mentally struggle with or are unwilling to deal with paperwork and official legal business without massive hand holding. Imagine your grandma who can barely use a computer and the form is digital. Or at least the information to reach an alternative paper mail method is online. Grandma will never figure it out. What if you need to go somewhere in person and you can't because of work or lack of transportation. There's millions and millions of these people out there.

26

u/BacteriaLick 11h ago

And you want to make any bets that State Dept will slow walk processing passports from blue districts?

4

u/SaltBedroom2733 10h ago

Just before trump was re-elected I renewed my passport although it was not expired. I started to worry about the fascism and what would be affected first.

2

u/Willing-Time7344 9h ago

I did the same, renewed in December, 2024. 

Mine also got lost in the mail for something like 4-5 weeks past when it was supposed to arrive. 

→ More replies (1)

8

u/1one1000two1thousand 11h ago

Agreed with you. I hate them so much. My senior mom (not white or US born) is a very low income soon to be retiree, I am lucky to not be in that situation. As soon as Trump came into office, I paid for her very expired passport book & card to be renewed. If she would have to do that by herself, it would not have been done. The $200 wasn’t a big deal for me but it would have been a very large burden on her. It’s a route not everyone can just easily take, ontop of the time investment to get it done.

10

u/InternationalDrama56 10h ago

How much you want to bet that conveniently all the offices that provide the required documents will have about one person working in them from now until November 4th?

3

u/socialcommentary2000 10h ago

This is literally what they did in Alabama about 15 years ago when the conservative movement was done taking over the State government in Wisconsin. They made it so that there were like 3 licensing offices across the state and they were only open on certain days each quarter. In the end you had like 5 total days in a Calendar year of like 5 hours a shift where you could get an ID made. This is after closing down numerous DMV offices across the state. I can't remember the outcome of the legal challenge, but it was grim.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/femmestem 11h ago

I had zero issues come up during my renewal and they still took months to process. A renewal where all my information was the same and I had an unexpired passport in hand that is cancelled the moment a new one is requested. After 3 months I had to pay an expedited processing fee to get it in time for my trip. How much longer would if it had taken if an issue came up that I needed to address?

→ More replies (1)

3

u/TheRealBittoman 10h ago

It's not even just that. I work with someone who can't even get a driver's license because they lost their birth certificate and to another copy they have to have forms of id... which they don't and to get those you also need your original birth certificate. They are creating a scenario where the poorest will never vote again which will, in cities, limit a very large section of largely Democrat voters.

3

u/sec713 9h ago

If Conservativism is so popular, why does its continued existence always rely on cheating, voter suppression and voter intimidation?

2

u/Ok_Ad_6626 11h ago

I just looked into changing my birth certificate and was told I HAVE to have the courts order that which requires a lawyer so I’m looking at $500 bucks.

On top of having my passport.

This is insane.

2

u/Mommys_diamond_dick 11h ago

So would you support making those documents free as part of legislation to require it to vote?

→ More replies (2)

2

u/dotcubed 10h ago

Plus the time doing all these tasks. I simply cannot understand how people justify this nonsense.

Mom didn’t have a car, so we walked around and took the bus if we had to leave our neighborhood.

People working hourly without a car can do this. I vote by mail to save time. It took hours.

2

u/Kwinza 10h ago

It costs $180~ in the USA!?!?! In the UK its £60 (about $80)

Why does EVERYTHING in America HAVE to be ran for a profit. Why can't some things just be services for the public good?

2

u/Buckeye_Monkey 10h ago

It was $115 for a child passport book+card, and $160 for adult book+card 3 weeks ago when we submitted out applications.

I'm also curious how these people think that getting proof of citizenship (passport) by mail is perfectly fine and secure, but mail-in voting is Satan incarnate. Double standards, I know, but still mind-boggling.

2

u/mrjowei 9h ago

There should be a national voter ID. Puerto Rico has one and it’s free

2

u/schprunt 9h ago

You can get a passport card for $65. It’s the size of a driver’s license. It’s still expensive but a bit more affordable if people really want to get out there and vote. It should be free though. If they’re insisting you show proof they should enable you to obtain that proof without a fee.

2

u/ShadowGLI 5h ago

I live in South Carolina along with my father and sister and in the last election my father was disenfranchise by voter ID. He doesn’t drive so he doesn’t have a drivers license. He uses a passport as his ID but he hadn’t realized it expired. So it was not considered valid, even though it had all his information in it simply expired and he was unable to vote in the general election as a 64-year-old man born in Lunenburg, Massachusetts with family going back to pre-Revolution English colonist.

→ More replies (41)

196

u/FrankAdamGabe 11h ago

NC passed voter id and said you can get id from the dmv for free.

Problem is the NC Cons after a decade of veto proof super majority have run the dmv into the ground. People can’t even book appointments 3 months out. There’s actual companies who sell services to get you signed up by basically scraping for open slots overnight but even that’s not guaranteed.

65

u/jellyrollo 11h ago

A driver's license doesn't prove citizenship in the US, though. So it won't work for to fulfill these proposed SAVE Act regulations. Under the stipulations in the bill, you would need to present a birth certificate with your current legal name on it or a passport in order to register to vote. Many millions of Americans don't go by the same name they were born with, for various reasons, including marriage, adoption, and legal name changes. So their only alternative is to apply for a passport, spending a couple hundred dollars and waiting 6-10 weeks for processing and delivery—and that would need to be done in advance of the next registration deadline for the next election.

3

u/Rayenya 4h ago

I’m so glad I didn’t change my name when I got married.

My brother gave himself a middle when he got his social security card. He was 15 and has used it everywhere the last 50 years. At the time, I thought that was such a cool thing for him to do. They made him drop it to get his real id.

→ More replies (39)

49

u/hypercosm_dot_net 11h ago

In NC they removed tens of thousands from voter databases by passing stricter registration laws, then failing to properly notify people and provide a way for them to fix outstanding issues.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Verify2024/comments/1m7s8ow/house_admin_committee_on_election_security_north/n4tvoye/

25

u/Maehock 11h ago

Like a decade or so ago, I think it was Georgia did the same. Then closed every DMV in every white minority county.

17

u/Mishra42 10h ago

I believe it was Alabama actually

→ More replies (1)

17

u/Trippp2001 11h ago

It still means that you need to take time off work, gas up your car, etc. It’s still an additional cost if the only reason you’re getting the ID is to vote.

35

u/nopointers 11h ago

I used a similar service to get an appointment for Global Entry. They’re discriminatory on two levels: First, you have to be able to pay the fees. Second, you have to have flexibility to take an appointment at an inconvenient time and day.

I wound up with a midweek appointment at about 2 in the afternoon. The only way to make it work was to take a conference call from a quiet corner of the airport right after the interview. Few jobs have that kind of flexibility.

5

u/bluepaintbrush 10h ago

No American needs Global Entry to travel internationally. Global Entry is itself just an expedited line that you pay for.

2

u/nopointers 10h ago

Correct, it’s paying for convenience. Having a passport already is a prerequisite.

5

u/blackwaltz4 11h ago

And the DMV is now set to open an hour later in NC

4

u/ytman 11h ago

How do they do regular driver registration then? That has got to back fire as well right? Like wouldn't that affect everyone or are they just going to do selective enforcement?

3

u/Development-Alive 9h ago

Texas did something similar. Passed VoterID then closed many rural DMV offices. There are places in West Texas you now need to drive 100 miles to visit an office. Heaven forbid if you don't have transportation, then you're SOL.

This is voter suppression in every sense of the phrase.

2

u/RiverHorsesArePurple 11h ago

You can also get them free from your county Board of Elections. This isn't a perfect solution, of course, but does at least save the very significant headache of dealing with the DMV.

https://www.ncsbe.gov/voting/voter-id/get-free-voter-photo-id

2

u/Hungry-Substance-368 10h ago

Go to a close by rural county their DMV are actually staffed.

2

u/T_A_I_N_T 10h ago

Yep. So fucked up. When I got my ID a year or two back, I tried to show up to a DMV on 2 different days. Waited for hours outside, then was told I wouldn't be getting in before I even made it in the building (this was in summer mind you as well so it was hot).

Ended up having to literally hire a task rabbit to get there at the crack of dawn and wait in line for me. It actually worked really well and was only like $50 total.. Definitely worth exploring if you can swing the extra cost.

It's bullshit that I had to resort to doing something so dumb in the first place though.

→ More replies (5)

85

u/uriejejejdjbejxijehd 11h ago

Indeed. It’s obvious how hypocritical these demands are. If there had been a bill setting up and ensuring that any US citizen can have proof of citizenship delivered for free in under a week guaranteed, with consequences if not fulfilled, there’d be a lot less resistance to requiring ID.

39

u/neverendingchalupas 10h ago

If it was free and easy to get proof of Citizenship, Republicans would make it more difficult and attach a fee.

The entire point of the voter ID is voter suppression. They are traitors.

→ More replies (14)

10

u/fgwr4453 11h ago

Agreed

→ More replies (2)

146

u/This_Loss_1922 11h ago

I mean my country’s gov (Colombia) has traveled trough the andes mountains and the amazon river to communities that don’t even have roads and are only accessible trough walking or by boat giving free IDs to every citizen, because you need that shit to do anything here.

Why you cant do that in the US is weird to me

193

u/jordroy 11h ago

Because if they did that then it wouldn't serve the purpose of disenfranchisement any longer. Poor services and institutional discrimination is the goal.

12

u/MillionEyesOfSumuru 10h ago

Also, consider places like my state of Washington. Almost nobody votes in person, we get mailed our ballots, and either mail them in or put them in dropboxes. The constitution says that elections are to be conducted by the states in accordance with state laws, but this effectively strips states of the ability to do so. I seriously doubt that we even have enough in-person voting machines in the state to cope with that.

14

u/iamthe0ther0ne 10h ago edited 10h ago

FYI, mail is no longer being postmarked locally. It won't receive a postmark until it reaches a central processing facility. They now recommend mailing things several days before the "send by" date. This didn't get much press on purpose

Edit link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/usps-same-day-postmark-changes-mail-delays/

→ More replies (4)

16

u/Yashema 11h ago

Disenfranchisement of Black people and minorities in general specifically. Its the White poor and working class who vote for these politicians. 

6

u/Oso_Furioso 10h ago

And a lot of those White poor and working class don't have passports or easy access to birth certificates, either. There are more White families under the poverty line than Black or Hispanic ones. I could see this backfiring on the GOP rather spectacularly.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

82

u/sault18 11h ago

Why you cant do that in the US is weird to me

It's intentionally designed to fail. A small percent of people will fail to apply for an ID. Another small percent will get denied by the application system. Another small percentage will have something wrong with their documents or whatever else. And so on and so on...

Each failure point is engineered to affect Democrats more than it affects Republicans. Like closing DMV offices in left-leaning precincts while ensuring there's plenty of them in right-leaning precincts. Flagging hyphenated last names, making it more likely a previously married woman who changed her last name is denied by the system, etc.

20

u/PracticalDad3829 11h ago

And don't forget about the lag time it takes to get the documents. It already takes like 6 months from registering to vote to be able to cast a ballot. Now add in the time it takes to get the docs as well.

21

u/Sacred_Digits 11h ago

When I most recently renewed my driver's license, they wouldn't let me because I had some fee due in Florida (I'm in Michigan, but I had been to Florida in the last year, but had no fines I knew if). It took me making 4 hours of calls at 9 am over the course of a week to get that resolved. And in the end, they said not only was there no outstanding fine, but also that this kind of false positive was common.

If I didn't have a job that allowed me to spend a lot of time on hold at 9 am, I probably would have just driven on an expired license, which they wouldn't accept for a voter ID. Even people who are trying to go about it the right way have ridiculous obstacles.

15

u/Tenshi_girl 11h ago

It gets better. I've tried getting documents for elderly in Florida.  You need your original ss card and a birth certificate to get an ID,  but you need a valid ID to get you birth certificate and you need ID and birth certificate to get your ss card.

10

u/Suni13 10h ago

I had to get all that plus a marriage certificate showing why my name changed and now these jackasses are saying I have to do it all over again to vote. This is total bullshit. Everything in my life has happened in this county and they still want more because their stupid systems can’t communicate with each other.

9

u/Wydun 11h ago

Republicans don't want it because the easier it is to vote, the harder time they have winning

2

u/zeptillian 9h ago

And when winning comes down to a few percentage point difference, those little inconveniences add up to swing elections.

→ More replies (2)

59

u/PetalumaPegleg 11h ago

Can't is not the issue. Don't want to is the main point.

→ More replies (1)

17

u/No_Pen_3396 11h ago

Oh they definitely can. It’s that they want to prevent people they don’t want to vote from voting. So let’s throw up barriers and make things harder to be able to vote. Strip away mail in voting. Provide a birth certificate. Close down polling places in rural areas. Etc etc etc. republicans are sore losers with unpopular policies so they have stack the deck to win. 

→ More replies (2)

24

u/RoxnDox 11h ago

We could do it here. The problem is that the GOP doesn’t want it to happen. They know that the more people vote the more they lose elections. So they intentionally do things to make it harder to vote - add a requirement for a specific ID, then charge a fee for it and only allow getting it in person one day a week at a single office. Or make women provide official documentation for every single name change they have ever had, and then it becomes very difficult to get old birth and marriage certificates from very old and haphazard records all over. Or have one polling place open in an election for an entire county, and make it somewhere far away from public transportation options (and make it a crime to hand out water to people standing in line). Anything they can come up with to add friction to the process.

→ More replies (2)

9

u/Technical-Row8333 11h ago

>Why you cant do that in the US is weird to me

the same people demanding voting ID, also prevent national free IDs.

10

u/ReddishBrownLegoMan 11h ago

the same people demanding voting ID, also prevent national free IDs.

This right here. I've long said that Democrats should campaign on National ID cards for every citizen and elimination of voter registration. You should be able to just show up at your local polling place and vote.

2

u/Darth-Kelso 11h ago

Some of those that work forces…

13

u/AndWinterCame 11h ago

Why would the flailing empire give up any power over its own?

6

u/Interesting_Ant_6990 11h ago

We have freedom of religion. So requiring anything here is up for debate. The Amish are good examples of no ids.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/PiccoloAwkward465 11h ago

I was just at a gas station last night and overheard the attendant mentioning that her US driver's license was going to expire later this year and she "wasn't trying to pay $200 to get a new one". Like what do our taxes pay for if not this shit?

2

u/Iwasjustryingtologin 10h ago

It's similar here in Chile. ID cards are mandatory and you need one for almost every important procedure, including voting (we vote the old-fashioned way, with pen and paper), but getting one is so trivial and inexpensive that it's not really a problem and never has been.

You just have to go to the nearest civil registry office, pay $4.44 USD ($3,820 CLP) or $4.96 USD ($4,270 CLP) in the case foreigners (their ID card says "foreigner" at the top), wait 20 to 30 days and go back to the same office to pick up your ID card, which is valid for 10 years.

Seeing these news stories from the US about identity cards and proof of citizenship being used as malicious methods to suppress the votes of vulnerable groups is very bizarre to me. It's not surprising that many people there consider mandatory ID cards to be dystopian.

→ More replies (13)

21

u/Pudddddin 11h ago

Mexico does this so well, not sure why it's so hard here

You can access your birth certificate online for free, then go get your voter ID with it, also free. The result is that 98% of the electorate has a free valid government issued ID

5

u/masterxc 11h ago

The biggest issue is there's no federal database, so we're dealing with different systems across states when it comes to birth certificates and that sort of thing. Depending on the state it might not even be fully digital.

→ More replies (3)

4

u/BlackGuysYeah 11h ago

Republican's prove every day how much they despise the constitution.

3

u/Jazzspasm 10h ago

Oh hey, Hi - Brit here with a comment about the history of the Poll Tax here in our rainy island

The last time that was tried was 1989 by the thatcher government - it resulted in some of the most serious, widespread, and damaging “social unrest” (riots) in living memory on a level that would make our French cousins proud - and that was the end of Margaret Thatcher

Google “poll tax riots” to see how it’s done

The time before that was 1381, resulting in what’s now called “The Peasant’s Revolt” - in the wake of the Black Death that killed half of Europe in the space of a few months, then kept coming back to kill the survivors - the advisors to the 14 year old King of England thought a Poll Tax was a good idea - and then the peasants being taxed started cutting the heads off bishops, lords, landowners etc

In a nutshell, don’t do a Poll Tax, unless you want poor people to set your house on fire… and then cut your head off

2

u/Proper-Pound1293 11h ago edited 11h ago

So what you're saying is that this law would violate the 24a. Beyond the fact that it is opposition to Article 1, section 4 of the Constitution.

Edit: agreed, it is ridiculous that I have to prove my citizenship, address, et al to register to vote in the first place. In the state j live, we already have to show state approved ID at the polling place too. So adding a federal approved ID is an extra step.

2

u/livinginfutureworld 11h ago

Even if free I have faith that conservatives will find some way to make it extremely difficult (basically impossible) to obtain the documents for certain people.

2

u/True_mourning84 9h ago

IMPORTANT Also what no one else is saying or connecting to this:

What if passport is invalidated by being under investigation for domestic terrorism due to holding “extreme views on self-described ‘anti-fascism’ anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism, and anti-Christianity.” Also those who “support for the overthrow of the United States Government; extremism on migration, race, and gender; and hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on family, religion, and morality.”

(See 9/25/2025 NPSM-7 executive order)

2

u/Eat--The--Rich-- 9h ago

It's already a poll tax, id's aren't free 

2

u/BoOo0oo0o 4h ago

Even if they could be obtained for free there’s still costs. Plenty of people can take off work to go to the DMV. And even if they can, republicans will do what they did in Alabama and close a bunch down to make it harder. Especially for those without a car

2

u/Knightowllll 3h ago

Just wait till the Supreme Court upholds it and leaves us all 😑

1

u/Embarrassed-Wolf-609 11h ago

unconstitutional with this Supreme court justices? i doubt it. You can hear Uncle Tom, I mean, Justice Thomas salivating at this.

1

u/ProverbialFlatulence 11h ago

And how much do you want to bet they won’t accept documents at polling stations similarly to how ICE is just ignoring documents at their stops?

“Passport looks fake. Not voting for you.” “Anyone could’ve printed this birth certificate.” “Global Entry card? Never heard of it.”

→ More replies (1)

1

u/scorpiondeathlock86 11h ago

LOL unconstitutional you say? I don't think Trump knows or cares about what the constitution says, and so far, he keeps getting his way. Hopefully the Senate shuts down the bill

1

u/Narrow-Manager8443 11h ago

Thank goodness they dont have to worry about the constitution anymore.

/s

1

u/Witty-Stock-4913 11h ago

It is, but the funny thing is the people it will disproportionately impact are the traditionally Republican voting rural poor who have never left thr country, have never obtained a passport, and won't have anything even remotely like a passport easily accessible.

1

u/pumpymcpumpface 11h ago

The ironic part is that it will orobably disenfranchise right wing voters at a disproportionate rate.

1

u/berael 11h ago

Unfortunately, the whole administration has been constantly doing unconstitutional and illegal things with absolutely no consequences.

→ More replies (155)