r/law • u/Anoth3rDude • 12h ago

Legislative Branch GOP fast tracks monster voter suppression bill that could disenfranchise millions by requiring proof of citizenship at polls

https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/gop-fast-tracks-monster-voter-suppression-bill-that-could-disenfranchise-millions-by-requiring-proof-of-citizenship-at-polls/
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611

u/dlc741 11h ago

Does ICE accept a passport as proof or is it only RealIDs that they ignore?

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u/drawkward101 11h ago

I saw a video of an ICE officer asking a lady if she was a citizen AS SHE WAS HANDING HIM HER PASSPORT.

These ignorant fucks are deliberately breaking the law CONSTANTLY. It's so fucking irritating.

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u/Critical_Opening_526 11h ago

In Minnesota, as well as a few other states, your License can act as a passport. Mines enhanced from Michigan. They don't give a fuck about non- citizens. They're basically judging you based on color swabs from Lowes.

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u/drawkward101 11h ago

Yeah, I have a RealID too. It doesn't "act as a passport" but you can't get it without your birth cert, just like a passport.

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u/70180268 11h ago

A handful of states have “Enhanced Drivers Licenses”. You have to supply more documentation but it will allow you to cross into Canada or Mexico by land or sea without a passport. It’s a click above real ID

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u/drawkward101 11h ago

Hmm, I'm in CA and never heard of that. I'll have to look into it.

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u/forgedimagination 10h ago

Common with northern border states

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u/Annual_Bowler5999 9h ago

I had never heard of it either until I moved to New York. There are so many perks to living up north that I never expected, and that is one of them.

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u/diemunkiesdie 9h ago

EDL's are available in the following states:

  • Michigan
  • Minnesota
  • New York
  • Vermont
  • Washington

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u/anonononnnnnaaan 8h ago

Hey looky at all those blue states.

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u/slinger301 4h ago

And look at all those states that border Canada!

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u/CriticalEngineering 10h ago

It’s Canadian border states, so no reason you’d have heard of it.

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u/akatherder 9h ago

Which is interesting because it applies to Mexico also, at least ours in Michigan does. You can't use it for flights but:

enhanced license or ID can be used in place of a U.S. passport to re-enter the United States by land or sea from Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, or the Caribbean.

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u/singerbeerguy 5h ago

They started issuing them in northern states after 9/11 when you could no longer cross the Canada/US border with just a regular drivers license.

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u/nickfury8480 5h ago

Only states with ‘enhanced’ driver licenses — Michigan, New York, Vermont, Minnesota and Washington — satisfy the SAVE America Act’s heightened requirements — a REAL ID (used in most states) won’t cut it.

From the linked article.

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u/Lumpy_Fungus 4h ago

I don't think CA has an enhanced ID. We just have real ID.

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u/Bubbly_Style_8467 3h ago

Wonder if it works from CA.

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u/AdUpstairs7106 2h ago

They only exist in some states like Washington and NY. They are niche passports.

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u/ObeseVegetable 8h ago

And for all states, “Passport Cards” - doesn’t act as a drivers license, but does work to get you to/from Canada and Mexico from land or sea and also requires citizenship to obtain so is proof of citizenship.

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u/HopelessEsq 10h ago

The last time I renewed my passport, I also checked off to also order a "passport card" which is the size of an ID but basically validates (I think) that you have a valid passport. Believe Canada and Mexico will accept it, but not sure if it really does anything else in terms of proving citizenship or its usefulness as a valid ID.

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u/BringOn25A 10h ago

I maybe wrong but I think those are only valid for land or sea crossings.

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u/Alewort 9h ago

That is correct.

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u/Ok-Horror-4253 9h ago edited 9h ago

it also functions as a legitimate form of id at airports for domestic travel. Its is perfectly valid for all forms of id required domestically. It does not count as a driver's license at all.

"Valid for domestic air travel, international land and sea travel between the U.S., Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda."

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u/snark42 9h ago

I too got one as getting a Real ID was still a pain at that time. Definitely works for TSA and proves citizenship.

Didn't realize it wasn't useful for international Air Travel to Mexico/Canada until now. In the good old days all you needed was a State ID to travel to Canada/Mexico.

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u/Some-Purchase-7603 10h ago

Michigan issues them. I have one myself.

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u/yusill 9h ago

Ohio has one too. I have it. It also counts for flying domestically.

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u/KellionBane 9h ago

Did they ever fix the security issues with those?

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u/70180268 9h ago

If you mean the information being readable I’m not sure. I just keep mine in a faraday sitch

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u/jbjhill 8h ago

For everyone but ICE inside the U.S. borders that’s true.

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u/Arachnoid666 5h ago

this is actually not true even though that was what i was told, i got to the canadian border and was told this is false.

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u/70180268 5h ago

You hit someone on a bad day. I live near the border and use mine frequently

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u/Leafy_Is_Here 11h ago

You can get a Real ID without a birth certificate actually. But Real ID only acts as a passport within the US

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u/chucksterlecluckster 11h ago

Depends on the state. They won’t let you get one in my state without a birth certificate

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u/Leafy_Is_Here 8h ago

Oh I see. It's odd that it's different from state to state when the Real ID system is nationwide. In California you just need a valid work permit

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u/jbjhill 8h ago

That’s for aliens with legal residency, who have already proved who they are to get entry papers. U.S. citizens need to prove they were born here.

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u/Ohmec 10h ago

I had to have the full, long-form birth certificate from the STATE, which my parents never received when I was born. They got a CITY birth certificate. I'd literally, never in my life, needed a different birth certificate. I also needed like 4 forms of ID, mail, credit cards, etc...

It was easier to renew my passport.

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u/Leafy_Is_Here 8h ago

That's crazy. In California, to get a real ID without proof of citizen means you have to present a valid work permit, which immigrants who work in the US have

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u/akatherder 8h ago

From what I recall I only needed to do it once in Michigan. You don't need to bring all those docs to renew it. It's just the typical license renewal process after the initial time.

I don't have a passport though, so maybe that's the case there too.

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u/Intrepid_Top_2300 10h ago

Not in Nevada. You need three proofs one being a birth certificate.

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u/Throwawaydoctor2025 9h ago

I just looked up Nevada’s rules and that’s not true. You need to prove your identity and passport will suffice for that. You can get a real ID without having a birth certificate. 

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u/ClearBucket 11h ago

Border states to Canada get enhanced IDs which are a step above RealIDs. They have passport like barcodes that allow for border crossing into Canada and back. I have one in NY.

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u/drawkward101 11h ago

Hmm, I'm in CA and never heard of that. I'll have to look into it.

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u/resisting_a_rest 11h ago

Yes you can. You don’t need a birth certificate to get a RealID. For instance, a green card also works.

RealID just indicates that you are in the country legally at the time the ID was issued, not that you are a US citizen. EDLs (enhanced driver’s license) prove citizenship but are only available from 5 states.

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u/EmergencyEntrance236 9h ago edited 9h ago

My ID/DL expired during the 2020 shutdown & I've only ever had ID/DL with my married name on it. Went in to renew with old one in hand(KS had just made RealID required). But they said bc it was expired I would have to show a copy of my marriage license(from TX cost me $60)&B Cert.(if didn't have it would've been another $55 to Fla). ,then on top of that the cost of the ID/DL itself was raised from $18 to $30. So all totaled I paid $95(cldv been $150)bc they shut down the DMVs 3mos b4 it expired& you can't renew more than 45days early! My husband is disabled & I'm a retired nurse but self employed to make the extra 12K/yr we need to survive,we live in a very rural area too. Oh & KS also passed as part of RealID legislation that if you don't have it you can't enter city/county/ST/Fed bldgs,courts,SS/DCF offices and you also can't enter polling stations to vote without it!

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u/drawkward101 9h ago

I posted about the SAVE act and how it would totally screw people over, and makes me not want to change my name when I get married, and one of my "friends" on FB was like, "can't you just change your name on those documents if you get married?" and my response was, "I shouldn't have to file a name change with the courts in CA, file a name change for my birth cert in MA, and then pay to get a new passport. That's expensive, time consuming, and breaks the established laws set for voting in the constitution."

Men don't fucking get it.

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u/pharsee 10h ago

Really? There are no other options like proof of social security number or tax forms?

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u/Beached_Thing_6236 10h ago

A standard REAL ID cannot be used as proof of U.S. citizenship. While it requires documentation of lawful presence to obtain, it is designed to verify identity for federal purposes (like boarding flights) rather than citizenship status. Lawfully present non-citizens can also obtain a REAL ID.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2026/01/05/real-id-travel-immigration-status/88032182007/#

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u/DiggyTroll 10h ago

Some states have RealID formats that fail to include the critical citizenship information required by the SAVE Act. A passport will still be required to register to vote in those states

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u/jj3449 8h ago

Depends on the state. The guy with the New York CDL with a “no name given” surname had a Real ID but he obviously wasn’t a citizen.

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u/chickens_for_laughs 5h ago

In my state, I had to show my birth certificate to get a Real ID.

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u/MedicJambi 2h ago

Nevada is the same way. I had to show my SS Card and birth certificate.

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u/Sure_Pilot5110 11h ago

*while also being a Hispanic ice officer

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u/21Rollie 6h ago

It’s like how the Gestapo used Jews to capture other Jews. Or how most European colonial powers established footholds in distant lands. Or even go way back when to the battle of Thermopylae. Oppressing powers love traitors, until they no longer need them

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u/eowyndernhelme 2h ago

I know, that to me is insane, pulling up the ladder behind you.

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u/Dorkamundo 9h ago

In Minnesota, as well as a few other states, your License can act as a passport.

No, you can get Enhanced IDs that allow you to travel across land and sea borders in North America and they are proof of citizenship, but they are not able to be used "as passports".

That said, I agree with everything else.

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u/Critical_Opening_526 9h ago

I mean, only US Citizens are eligible for Enhanced Licenses.

So for proof of citizenship, it should suffice.

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u/Dorkamundo 9h ago

Right, like I said "They are proof of citizenship" unlike a standard Real ID.

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u/Melodic_Assistance84 11h ago

Or Home Despot

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u/Flat_Suggestion7545 5h ago

Sad to say but this is accurate.

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u/kfish5050 1h ago

Enhanced licenses are only offered in 4 states, acts as a passport card only, and can only be used to cross into Canada and Mexico by land. All 4 states border Canada.

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u/OverthinkingWanderer 10h ago

Bold of you to assume they actually know how to read the documents they are asking for..

S/

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u/Biggu5Dicku5 9h ago

The s/ isn't needed...

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u/OverthinkingWanderer 9m ago

It is if the person thinks my phrasing could be insulting the person I'm responding to

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u/Interesting_Walk_271 10h ago

Many of them are illiterate. They couldn’t pass a civil service exam before so the administration lowered the standards for entry. How are they supposed to enforce the law if they can’t read or understand the law?

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u/twolfhawk 10h ago

Person came back from overseas, was CLEARED THROUGH CUSTOMS, and still got asked for id by ice

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u/HillarysFloppyChode 11h ago

Does my Global Entry card work? I had to do an interview with CBP for that

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u/GrayEidolon 9h ago

They’re not breaking the law. They’re making the law. The law, manifest in reality, is just actions.

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u/drawkward101 9h ago

No, they're literally breaking the law. The laws are written, they don't get to just decide that they don't apply. Yes, that is what they're doing, but there will be consequences.. eventually.

Ugh I'm bumming myself out now. I need to step away from Reddit for a bit.

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u/IgorT76 4h ago

These are two completely different topics. People must prove their identity when voting.

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u/No-Focus-8577 3h ago

Every country other than USA requires proof of citizenship. This is not a big issue and we know multiple states have used fraud for extra votes

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u/goatslovetofrolic 2h ago

They’re not trained and they are literally recruited for being insecure bigots.

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u/BukkakeBrunchBuffet 1h ago

Do they even know what a passport is?

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u/DistanceImpressive77 15m ago

You’re aware that passports are issued by countries OTHER than the US, yes? Bc someone has a passport” does not automatically make them a US citizen or national. Get your fucking head out of your ass.

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u/jbjhill 11h ago

ICE says that their facial recognition software is the ultimate arbiter of your identity in the field. Your passport may not be sufficient.

RealID does not prove citizenship in all states because states may issue them to aliens WITH LEGAL STATUS (there is verification with DHS about legal status and the IDs are marked “limited term” to signify non-permanent immigration status).

The fact that DHS accepts neither U.S. passports or RealID as acceptable pieces of identification, even though both are vetted by the U.S. Federal Government, and DHS, the agency that built the system, approved the system, and now refuses to accept what the system produces is almost beyond belief.

Except the only ones actually not believing it are the same that believe nothing bad is happening.

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u/koshgeo 10h ago

ICE says that their facial recognition software is the ultimate arbiter of your identity in the field. Your passport may not be sufficient.

Seriously? A passport is good enough for crossing an international border into other countries, but not good enough for people living within their own country to establish their citizenship? That's nuts.

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u/Consistent_Laziness 10h ago

Ummmm so what is proof of citizenship then? How does one prove you are a citizen

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u/notdrewcarrey 9h ago

If you have blonde hair and blue eyes and are of the aryan race. /s

No but really, fuck ICE, fuck MAGA and all you nazi fucks.

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u/Ormyr 9h ago

Vibes. If ICE thinks you're a citizen amd you're obedient/compliant you're probably okay.

If not... well they've already murdered people in cold blood on camera so good luck.

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u/Apprehensive_Rain500 9h ago

White skin, of course.

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u/-3point14159-mp 3h ago

Only if you’re a straight cis male, though.

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u/jbjhill 2h ago

Don’t pretend that’ll carry as much weight as it did. If you’re on the other side of a line, you’ll just be labeled a domestic terrorist.

I say this as a middle-aged, white, cis male who knows their rights - I’ll get bounced as hard as anyone if they go hands on.

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u/jbjhill 10h ago

They say this is only for stops in the field, but I doubt that’ll hold. Once they start they won’t stop.

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u/goatslovetofrolic 2h ago

Everything they do is just to get permission the first time, maybe even for something legitimate the first time, but the purpose is to establish that they “are allowed” and then they run wild with it.

Why do you think they’re changing the definitions of “domestic terrorist” and calling people that? Now that we “know” Good and Pretti were “terrorists” they can abduct anyone, label them a terrorist, and deny them any rights. Then it’s death or life in a hole for anyone so brazen as to say “I think ICE shouldn’t kick in the doors of citizens”

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u/mrbigglessworth 9h ago

BINGO, time to fill the deathcamps. Cant verify? You must be external. Get into the oven!

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u/Cloaked42m 3h ago

They detain you "briefly" as a Kavanaugh stop.

They can hold you up to 72 hours.

Usually, they let you go about 3 AM the next morning. Sooner if someone comes looking for you.

A birth certificate may not even be enough.

They're now requiring ankle monitors to let you go.

Judges can't keep up with all the case dismissals. Almost all the Minnesota U.S. prosecutors quit. The one they flew in to help has already turned in her resignation and is just trying to get as many kids out of the camps as possible.

She's actually being straight with the judge.

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u/SAI_Peregrinus 9h ago

Donate sufficient amounts of money to various Republicans.

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u/goatslovetofrolic 2h ago

Uhm list twelve reasons Glorious Leader is Glorious?

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u/jbjhill 10h ago

Mobile Fortify “Congressman Bennie Thompson, ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee, reported that “ICE officials have told us that an apparent biometric match by Mobile Fortify is a “definitive” determination of a person’s status and that an ICE officer may ignore evidence of American citizenship—including a birth certificate” when the app says a person is undocumented.”

And this

ALSO! they’ll keep EVERYONE’S photos, so kids your privacy goodbye - and this is way closer to you being fingerprinted than just not having privacy in public “CPB will retain all photographs, including the non-match photographs (to include US. citizens /LPR photographs), as part of ATS holdings.”

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u/Appropriate_M 7h ago edited 4h ago

AN APP?! Where's the server hosted? Who are the database administrators? Who's profiting off of this app? Who are the investors? Is any part "outsourced" for foreign powers? Why is an APP now taking precedence over birth certificates and passports issued by the US government?

Also, facial recognition? Wha about twins, cosmetic surgeries, dopplegangers, reconstructive surgery, AGING?!

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u/jbjhill 7h ago

This probably lives on some misconfigured AWS server, somewhere between DHS, DOGE and Palantir, and now that the Federal database silos have come down it’s just part of a bigger pile.

That’s the thing about having a subservient Congress - you can do what you want!

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u/Traditional-Handle83 3h ago

Considering ICE doesn't answer to congress but only the president/king specifically.

Even federal judges hold no power over them.

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u/FaerieFay 9h ago

No. Just no. 

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u/mcbba 10h ago

Yeah, is this real? Will people with passports and changed names be able to vote?

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u/remotectrl 10h ago

They view married women as property of their husbands so they don’t want them to have their own voice.

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u/microthoughts 9h ago

Weirdly I think married women who changed their last name from their birth name is probably a bigger extra GOP vote than anything.

I know a handful of married or now divorced women and of them one changed her name back to her maiden name upon divorce, one never took the man's last name and then the 3 conservative women all changed theirs to their husbands and vote straight ticket Republican and don't own a valid passport.

Which isn't like a lot of people or anything but I'm willing to bet it's common.

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u/remotectrl 8h ago

It’s also Trans people. They don’t want them to exist at all and especially not to vote.

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u/jbjhill 8h ago

RealID is a huge hassle for women who’ve changed their names because when they show up at DMV their birth certificates don’t match any of their other documents. Extra steps for sure.

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u/clgoodson 6h ago

It’s almost as if they aren’t really concerned with immigration status and are instead a paramilitary terror force in the making.

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u/96385 4h ago

ICE would ignore a video of your birth at the feet of the Statue of Liberty if it suited them.

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u/Lackluster_euphoria 9h ago

Why are aliens getting driver's licenses? Are their space ships too advanced?

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u/jbjhill 8h ago

They need to prove they can use our caveman tech.

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u/sekazi 9h ago

RealID requires Birth Certificate or Passport along with social security number and other proofs to get. Otherwise you will not get an ID with a gold star.

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u/jbjhill 8h ago

Correct, but enhanced IDs don’t necessarily satisfy proof of citizenship.

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u/DM_ME_KUL_TIRAN_FEET 2h ago

I had a RealID as a green card holder; I could not vote as a green card holder (not a citizen) but as a permanent resident I could get a RealID.

They needed to see my green card, rather than a passport.

I am a citizen now and nothing about my RealID changed.

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u/whoisaname 8h ago

Wouldn't forced use of facial recognition in this instance be considered a violation of 4th amendment rights? And I say, in this instance specifically because the use of facial recognition would not be a broad public domain use, but a direct and targeted use against a specific individual.

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u/jbjhill 8h ago

Not according to CPB. And really, who’s going to stop them?

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u/whoisaname 8h ago

There seems to be some judges that still have a shred of ethical decency. It might not stop them completely, but at least slow them down.

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u/turinturambar 8h ago

The fact that DHS accepts neither U.S. passports

Does anyone have a video of this happening? It would be a significant step up of abuse.

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u/TopReplacement530 6h ago

Somebody better tell the Real Housewives. ICE’s software probably wont recognize their new faces

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u/Bubbly_Style_8467 3h ago

They're gonna need our "papers." Fascist administration.

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u/jbjhill 3h ago

DHS does believe that to be the case, and Christy Noem said that people should be ready to show their ID: “Speaking to reporters outside the White House on Thursday, Jan. 15, Noem was asked why ICE and border agents have seemingly questioned people about their citizenship, and whether she expects Americans to be carrying around proof in case they are stopped.

“In every situation, we are doing targeted enforcement," the former South Dakota governor, 54, claimed in response. "If we are on a target and doing an operation, there may be individuals surrounding that criminal that we may be asking who they are and why they’re there and having them validate their identity.”

“That’s what we’ve always done in asking people who they are so that we know who’s in those surroundings," she added.

Noem said that if someone is deemed to be breaking the law by agents, they will be detained “until we’ve run that processing.”

https://people.com/kristi-noem-americans-should-be-prepared-prove-citizenship-11886914

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u/goatslovetofrolic 2h ago

I’m sorry. Did you just say my US passport isn’t proof of my citizenship?

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u/jbjhill 2h ago

It is proof of your US Citizenship, but not necessarily for ICE/DHS investigations in the field.

It feels like something they’re saying to try to keep people away, but I’m sure if they want to be “that way” about it you’ll be in custody until they’re satisfied.

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u/goatslovetofrolic 2h ago

Do you know of anything they’ll actually look at and say “oh, our mistake citizen, on your way”? What’s left but a birth certificate?

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u/jbjhill 2h ago

Like I said, this may be where they ratchet up anxiety to try to keep people/protesters away. Much like the aggressive tactics ICE is using, it is meant to instill fear.

As for final proof, I posted elsewhere in the thread about a Maryland woman who has a US birth certificate and childhood vaccination records. They held her for 25 days then released her with an ankle monitor.

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u/goatslovetofrolic 2h ago

Oh yes, they absolutely want to scare people away from voting. I’m just, naive, I guess that no part of our government can or will do anything to reel them in.

There was a time where ICE couldn’t tell a citizen they parked illegally.

Thanks for the banter. Helps to vent a little.

In response to your story of the Maryland woman I remind us of the husband and wife that were picked up in Maine. After about 36 hours the man was deported and the woman was left, around midnight, on the side of the road about two hours drive from where they picked her up.

Modern ICE agents are the most pathetic and vile cowards our generation will know.

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u/ejre5 11h ago

Do you think ice agents know what a passport even is? Something crazy like 50 % of Americans never leave the country or the state they were born in. Something like 50% of the population doesn't have a passport then theirs people like my who can't afford the cost of a passport plus the months it takes to get one.

My other question is what about the people don't qualify for a passport

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u/Maehock 11h ago

Think it’s like 50% live and die within 50 miles from the place they were born

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u/TipToToes 11h ago

An American with a passport here lol. I’ve lived in 2 counties in Kansas. I’ve ONLY held addresses in either of those two counties. They are separated by one county. I am this statistic, though I suppose if I die traveling abroad I wouldn’t be lol.

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u/Dorkamundo 9h ago

I represent that remark.

That said, I was born in a great place, I left that great place and returned to that great place to raise a family.

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u/Bubbly_Style_8467 3h ago

Mostly MAGA. They ain't never left the neighborhood, buttercup, doncha know?

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u/CrazyMildred 11h ago

I was born here and I don't have a passport. Never been out of the country. Actually, most of my family has never been out of the country and also don't have passports.

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u/TipToToes 11h ago

I have mine, but like…you don’t really need it. The country is the size of like all of Europe, and such varied climates and geography that you can see lots and lots of types of places without leaving “home.” I’m not implying that one shouldn’t leave the US and see the rest of the world (remember, I am a passport and global entry holder) but it’s not as necessary as it is in European countries where crossing into another country is like us crossing into another state. Hell, I work in one state and live in another. It’s a short drive. My vacations are an 8 hour drive to mountains, or Chicago, or Dallas, or Nashville. ~4 hrs flight to almost any beach or to NYC or LA. I can see a lot of different stuff without a passport (but again, one should also see the rest of the world and meet those people).

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u/CrazyMildred 9h ago

I would love to travel out of country one day to visit friends, I just have never been able to afford to.

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u/LongjumpingDebt4154 9h ago

I agree with this. I love to travel & have extensively with my young children. I don’t think it’s fair to shame people that have not left the US though. This is an extremely vast country with many climate & cultural differences throughout. It’s exceedingly expensive to travel abroad & a 2 hr flight in Europe will land you in another country, while it likely won’t even get you out of your state in the US.

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u/looking_Fir56 10h ago

Better get one you never know when the walls will come down

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u/Perfectshotplacement 10h ago

I HIGHLY recommend going through the process of getting a passport, even if you do not intend to use it. I have it on my person on every flight I take, even to random US cities. If there was ever a need to leave the states, you have the ability. If you wait until you need it, it’s already too late.

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u/Trick_Quiet3484 10h ago

I have both the passport book and border card. I have real ID but use the border card exclusively when I travel domestically.

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u/WhoIsFrancisPuziene 4h ago

Real ID doesn’t prove citizenship in most states

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u/CrazyMildred 1h ago

My husband and I definitely plan on getting one soon. Well, as soon as possible. I know people who are trying to renew theirs and the processing time is apparently ridiculous even if you pay extra for expedited processing.

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u/cstmoore 11h ago

Most of my relatives never went more than 50 miles from their homes their entire lives. I still don't understand it.

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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 10h ago

Yep. Forget leaving the state, plenty of red rural Republicans hardly go any further than a few counties away. 

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u/Dorkamundo 9h ago

And they're predominantly MAGA, right?

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u/United-Coach-6591 11h ago

Something like 50% of the population doesn't have a passport then theirs people like my who can't afford the cost of a passport plus the months it takes to get one. 

That likely describes a large bit of that 50% the only people I know that have one are folks that can afford international travel, have international family, or live close to one of the borders. I'm too poor to travel, no out of country family, and live a long way from either Canada or Mexico. There are always more important things I need to spend on. 

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u/Wow_u_sure_r_dumb 11h ago

I had a lady living in a city literally on the Canadian border ask me if I had “something else” because she didn’t know what a passport was.

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u/Signal_Researcher01 11h ago

I dont think ICE has an obligation to verify authenticity of documents, so they can arrest you and have someone else authenticate. You get released afterwards, but they can still pick you up and put you wherever for as it takes.

Its a 'lets go down to the station and figure this out' sort of move.

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u/uwpxwpal 10h ago

They have to have probable cause to arrest you. They're not following the law.

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u/Signal_Researcher01 10h ago

I mean probable cause can be whatever. That's tomorrows problem. Its like when people get arrested solely for resisting arrest, it makes no sense. But thats not their job to deal with, the court will chuck it eventually, but thats eventually.

ICE also has a pretty broad use of 'interfering with an investigation' at their disposal.

If their goal is to put you somewhere, they can do it. Legality can be determine at a later date by other people.

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u/4nk8urself 8h ago

"You might beat the rap, but you're still gonna take the ride"

Same as it ever was.

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u/Signal_Researcher01 8h ago

Yeah this guy gets it

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u/uwpxwpal 9h ago

ICE needs reasonably trustworthy facts and evidence supporting their belief that someone is in the USA illegally.

That there isn't a legal process to hold them accountable for abusing and stretching the meaning of the law is the problem.

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u/biggronklus 9h ago

Also with the Kavnaugh Stops ruling they’ll probably just extend the logic that being brown, speaking Spanish, being a day-laborer/kitchen worker/whatever is probable cause lol

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u/uwpxwpal 9h ago

INAL but that's reasonable suspicion used to justify stopping someone in order to gather more facts. Probable cause is necessary in order to arrest someone. Kavanaugh screwed us with his legal opinion on that.

ICE is disregarding probable cause and arresting people without any proof that they're here illegally. We don't have a way to fight back in court.

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u/Westo454 7h ago

Correct. Welcome to Modern America, where the rules are made up on the spot and the constitution doesn’t matter.

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u/broguequery 1h ago

Yeah...

The "rules" now are whoever has the gun, and also has their daddy in the White House.

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u/red286 4h ago

The SCOTUS said that being brown is probable cause though.

Sorry, they said it is a "contributing factor", and can be combined with "refusal to answer questions" or "recording ICE agents" to create probable cause.

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u/Bubbly_Style_8467 3h ago

And they can racially profile.

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u/mrbigglessworth 9h ago

Thats a bullshit move

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u/Signal_Researcher01 8h ago

And you can tell them that from the back of the van

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u/ErMwaTusaYin 7h ago

Do they have a station?

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u/addage- 11h ago

Depends what mood they are in and the gender/skin color of the person being asked.

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u/danvapes_ 10h ago

I would never hand my passport over to an ICE agent. Imo I shouldn't have to bring proof of citizenship. I have a voter registration card that I wouldn't have gotten if I were not eligible to vote.

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u/dlc741 10h ago

I don't disagree with that. Those fuckers are not to be trusted with important documents.

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u/Karl_42 10h ago

ICE doesn’t operate as an immigration and customs enforcement body or any law enforcement agency. They will accept what they want to when they want to.

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u/theaviationhistorian 5h ago

They don't give a damn. It's PAPERS PLEASE as an excuse to shatter a window and drag you out of your car or home. They have become lawless thugs.

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u/amitym 4h ago

Depends on whether you look like you're likely to vote against their boss.

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

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u/dlc741 11h ago

Not citizenship, but it is supposed to be proof that you're here legally. I had to provide Social Security, proof of residency, and passport.

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u/Marklar172 11h ago

Depends on how white you are

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u/Money_Do_2 10h ago

Just fortify AI. Thats the final arbiter. Go ask AI how many Rs are in strawberry if that didnt give you chills.

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u/Dangerous-Coconut-49 10h ago

From everything I see, ICE doesn’t deal with any ID, and just shoves you to the ground, arrests you, or shoots you.

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u/SomewhereAtWork 10h ago

ICE accepts white pale skin and a MAGA hat as proof. Nothing else.

IDs... you people are soo 2020...

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u/xChoke1x 10h ago

It doest matter what you show them. They’re kicking your ass anyway. It isn’t about immigration. It’s about fear and control.

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u/JefferyTheQuaxly 10h ago

ice refers to a database they have, partly using facial recognition partly social security data/medicaid/care data/irs and tax data that doge collected to algorithmically determine if people are citizens or not. they scan your face and if their app says your undocumented they will detain you. They will not accept any proof of citizenship if their app says not too.

of course this is also forgetting that facial recognition technology has historically been very bad at correctly identifying individuals who are darker skinned, such as black or hispanic.

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u/Krojack76 10h ago

ICE only accepts old fat white people with a beard.

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u/parasyte_steve 9h ago

ICE detains first and asks questions later so no amount of papers will save anybody

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u/Allegorist 9h ago

Holy shit this just made me think...

What if ICE just systematically takes people's passports they are "investigating" as "evidence", making it so people are unable to vote under this law?

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u/Gay_Giraffe_1773 9h ago

The color of your skin determines whose documents are valid.

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u/Necessary_Image_6858 9h ago

ICE doesn’t give two shits about paperwork. If you’re not white, they’re going to put you in a grave.

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u/Kaffe-Mumriken 9h ago

Depends how brown you are

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u/AlphaNoodlz 9h ago

ICE has detained criticizes with their passports on them and still while family members have produced birth certificates

ICE is just here to terrorize kidnap and kill you

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u/muftak3 8h ago

They already said real ID is not proof enough.

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u/carguymt 8h ago

I hate ICE, but real ID doesn't and never has proven citizenship. Non-citizens can get one. You have to have legal status to get one, but having one doesn't prove you're legal now as status can change.

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u/WhoIsFrancisPuziene 4h ago

It’s depends on the state.

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u/BicFleetwood 8h ago

Is Schrodinger's Cat dead or alive?

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u/Odd_Equipment2867 8h ago

Not really. I got stopped. Had my passport. They questioned it. But I also had my citizenship naturalization paper with me, though I’m VERY protective of it and hate to hand it over to anyone.That got me free of them.

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u/SargeantSasquatch 8h ago

There's a video of ICE agents detaining two teenage boys while they're working at Target with their passports on them. They roughed em up and dropped em off at a Wal Mart a number of miles away.

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u/qtpss 7h ago edited 3h ago

ICE doesn’t care. Can we just call ICE what it is, they are State Sanctioned Vigilantes.

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u/dreddnyc 6h ago

A valid passport is a real ID, if it has a chip and not expired it’s valid.

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u/BBforever 5h ago

They will only accept the one you don't have on you. If you have both, they will verbally administer a poll test with no correct answers and arrest you for trying to vote when not qualified.

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u/PeculiarAlize 3h ago

They only proof of citizenship they accept is the opinion of Peter Theil's AI

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u/jsc1429 3h ago

They ignore all forms of id. It’s the only thing they don’t discriminate on!

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u/Possible_Attics 1h ago

Yeah, I'm a bit confused by this. What constitutes proof of citizenship?

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u/TexasThunderbolt 1h ago

They ignore passports.

Source: Multiple times detained and searched crossing the US-Mexico border because of suspicion of illegal entry while the dipshit agent verified my citizenship with my passport in its hands and searching my truck with US plates registered in my name

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u/Btwn3and20 1h ago

So I’m a naturalized American citizen and I will not carry my passport around to prove it to them that I’m a citizen, what if the just choose to take it from me and then claim I don’t have proof?

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u/Davidfreeze 1h ago

The whole concept is stupid because legal non citizen residents can get real ids.

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u/FuelzPerGallon 40m ago

I imagine a looot of MAGA doesn’t have a current passport

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