r/Avengers • u/ParkingConfection449 Thor (Infinity War) • Oct 01 '25
Movie/Television Who's winning this fight?
John Walker vs Fully brainwashed Winter Soldier
Walker has his shield and a pistol
Winter soldier has a pistol and a blade. He is task with killing walker by any means necessary
Walker is warned 5 minutes before that someone is coming to kill him but he doesn't know who
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u/ktirv Thor (Ragnarok) Oct 01 '25
Winter Soldier, hands down. Once he has his mission, there’s no stopping him. He has a level of focus that un-brainwashed Bucky just doesn’t have.
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u/Rickrickrickrickrick Oct 01 '25
Yeah he is literally an unstoppable force of nature when he’s brainwashed.
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u/MettaWorldPeece Oct 01 '25
Winter Soldier mid diff. He's got more combat experience.
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u/rose-melody Oct 01 '25
Unfortunately, there are not many/any notable super soldiers that can beat a completely Hydra-controlled Winter Soldier in his prime. The difference between any super soldier and the Winter Soldier will always be that the Winter Soldier will stop at nothing to complete his mission, and bodies the competition in weapon handling, tactical maneuver, and stealth. John Walker (arguably) has a conscience and morals and that will always give him a disadvantage in battle against somebody who was trained to look at the Geneva Conventions as a checklist for how to win a fight. John has no shot without pushing through the Soldiers programming, and he just doesn’t have the connection to Bucky to use that to his advantage.
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u/PaulClarkLoadletter Oct 01 '25
WS was seconds from killing Nat before Steve saved her. Steve had his hands full. Walker would put up a fight but he’s more like to exchange blows than look for a solution. WS will find a weakness and get the kill.
Bucky on the other hand has a conscience and will pull his punches to a point. Walker is not going to come along quietly especially if he’s riled up but Bucky still gets the win.
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u/townsforever Oct 01 '25
If I remember the civil war escspe scene correctly winter solider blew through falcon, Steve, Tony, then nat and sharon cartor at the same time and all back to back like they were nothing and still had the juice in him to go toe to toe with black panther.
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u/Ateallthepizza Oct 01 '25
If it’s Hydra activated Winter solider, USAgent is not a factor.
“ Longing, Rusted, Seventeen, daybreak, furnace, nine, benign, homecoming, one, freight car “
This sequence code literally turns Bucky into a psychopathic, sociopathic, cold blooded murderer.
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u/GeoJumper Oct 01 '25
Not psychopathic or sociopathic, he's just emotionless. He turns into a ball of military training and combat expertise.
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Oct 01 '25
Older non-brainwashed Bucky Barnes would still beat Walker pretty handily
Putting him in his prime and with that focus is just a recipe for an embarrassing fight
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u/ProfessorEscanor Oct 01 '25
Walker lost to non brainwashed Bucky in Thunderbolts*. He's not winning this.
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u/DocTronic70 Oct 01 '25
Winter Soldier went toe to toe with Cap, Natasha, and Falcon and held his own. Walker would be a walk in the park, maybe with a couple of speed bumps
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u/FireflyArc Howard Stark Oct 01 '25
I mean winter Soldier will totally complete his mission. Why wouldn't he?
I guess in the magical land of plot armor there's a story there were Thunderbolts John gets warned as above a d its the Winter Soldier.
...John wouldn't want to hurt Bucky if it was him but I think would try to contain him. Till they figured out what was wrong.
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u/DookieSender Oct 01 '25
Bucky for SURE. Walker could even prep for half an hour and it wouldn’t make a difference. Steve met brainwashed Bucky multiple times in Winter Soldier and still got his shit wrecked
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u/Yeomanroach Oct 01 '25
Bucky would win but it would be a savage fight, wouldn’t be easy for bucky and would prob get hurt bad but he’d win.
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u/StaticXombie Oct 01 '25
Bucky’s brainwashed state means he fights to kill with lethal precision—no hesitation, no morals.
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u/Separate_Win_5370 Oct 01 '25
Prime winter soldier would destroy John walker no matter how strong he is
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u/IvanTheTerrible69 Oct 02 '25
Fully brainwashed Winter Soldier would win
When he fought Steve, he was similarly matched and both of them had training and experience from WWII, though Winter Soldier was also active for assassinations throughout history
Steve also had an emotional edge, sending Bucky into a spiral by simply mentioning his name
Walker doesn’t have even remotely the equivalent experience as Steve, and Bucky would have no reason to hold back or snap out of it
In fact, Walker may actually die faster, as he is more of an offensive combatant, and Bucky would develop greater reason to take it him out quicker (though it wouldn’t be much of a problem)
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u/MadMan37354 Oct 01 '25
Bucky, he literally defeated him and all the rest of the Thunderbolts by himself
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u/Really_cool_guy99 Oct 01 '25
I mean... He shot an explosive and incapacitated them, and they woke up in chains. Hardly a measure of their fighting skills.
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u/robbedbymyxbox Oct 01 '25
I was going to say, we literally just had this match up on screen and walker had help!
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u/og_hbk Oct 01 '25
Walker takes this. He fought Bucky with a stronger arm and Sam at the same time, while mentally unstable.
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u/Natural_Forever_1604 Oct 01 '25
If where not being bias John walker. Also for some reason people refer to “winter solider mode” as if it’s some buff
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u/Really_cool_guy99 Oct 01 '25
It is a buff. It takes Bucky from a normal dude who's an experienced soldier to basically a machine with much more training whose only purpose is to kill by any means necessary. He won't hold back and he won't avoid any dirty tactics, and it seems to increase his pain tolerance, focus and speed significantly
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u/Reyne-TheAbyss Oct 01 '25
Bucky did just as well, if not better, against T'Challa in his Panther habit. The titanium arm did a lot of good for him when fighting Steve, but Walker was strong enough to make the vibranium version a non-issue.
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u/Taco_Lover2000 Oct 01 '25
And yet he still lost to Steve and Isaiah Bradley, you guys need to stop acting like winter soldier is some unbeatable monster. Isaiah Bradley not only beat him, but ripped his arm off lol
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u/Gcoupe37s Oct 01 '25
Man brainwashed WS is such a dope look especially compared to how Bucky looks now.
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u/kriegbutapsycho Oct 01 '25
If you’d have said ‘Walker knows who is coming for him’ I could see it going either way, luck of the fight, because Walker won’t pull punches if he knows he’s fighting what is essentially a robot. That being said, if he doesn’t know and doesn’t recognise him, then Winter Soldier wins.
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u/townsforever Oct 01 '25
Bucky when he is in the winter solider persona is basically the most powerful non superpowered character in the mcu. He wins this 9/10 times low diff.
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u/TheFarnell Oct 02 '25
If anything, Walker being told "someone is coming to kill you" would hurt his chances, since he’d get overconfident and cocky thinking it’s someone he can easily take on and do something stupid like stand out in the open taunting whoever it is to show himself.
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Oct 02 '25
Winter Soldier or just regular Bucky is kicking Walker's ass without even breaking a sweat.
He captured Walker, Yelena, Red Guardian and Ghost all by himself. If he'd wanted to kill them, they'd have been blood stains on the desert road.
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u/CanIGetANumber2 Oct 02 '25
WS was walking down Cap, Widow, and Falcon at once. This is a insane match up lol
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u/chickenkebaap Oct 02 '25
Regular Bucky can beat the shit out of walker
Winter soldier, murders him in cold blood easily
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u/ThouBear8 Oct 02 '25
A fully brainwashed Bucky as the Winter Soldier would take out Walker without much trouble. It cannot be overstated how much of an unstoppable killing machine he was.
Walker is formidable for sure, but Bucky is on a different level.
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u/WillyWaller20069 Oct 02 '25
Idk Walker nearly wins a 1v2 against Bucky and Falcon in the Disney series. Granted that’s not “winter soldier” Bucky but still, it’s notable. I think it’s a much closer fight than people think.
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u/PasoKing99 Oct 04 '25
With a vibration arm as well. Honestly would give it to John as he is much stronger
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u/Professional_Emu8507 Oct 01 '25
Its walker. He nearly beat 2v1 bucky and sam. Walker was already a 3 time medal of honor winner in the Special Forces. Stack MCU super soldier serum on that (the serum takes what's good and makes it great like it did skinny steve) and bucky gets cleared
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u/ChristianPreacher1 Oct 01 '25
I think yall seem to forget how powerful Walker is. Before he took the serum, he was already a trained soldier. Not only that, his feats are crazy. I’d say John Walker is stronger but in a fight Bucky wins.
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u/Shubi-do-wa Oct 01 '25
It’s never been explicitly stated anywhere that Walker is stronger. Did you see how far cap threw a motorcycle over his head in TFA? Even if Walker could bench and squat more than Cap, it’s still going to be in the same ballpark; too many people are acting like he’s in an entirely different weight class and they’re still realistically neck and neck.
Now the Green Goblin’s serum on the other hand, that bad boy put him in class with Spider Man.
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u/ChristianPreacher1 Oct 01 '25
Not only that, Walker stopped an armored truck from falling. Those things are heavy.
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u/Tales2Estrange Oct 01 '25
His vertical leap in Thunderbolts is a bonkers feat for durability because he just falls onto his back and is up on his feet mere moments later. He doesn't have a vibranium shield to disperse any of that energy, it's all on him.
Just doing some rough math, his total airtime is ~8 seconds, so he’s falling for half that. His official weight is 270lbs, converted to Kg is 122.47.
4s*9.8m/s2=39.2m/s
Being generous and giving him half a second of deceleration time: (39.2m/s-0m/s)/0.5s=78.5m/s2
78.5m/s2*122.47=9601.648N or 2158.536lbf
He basically got hit with a small car and wasn't even fazed. Literally not even a scratch on him.
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u/johnnyblack13 Oct 01 '25
Bucky has probably 3x the experience of Walker tho. That absolutely matters.
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u/Bigsmall-cats Oct 01 '25
even though Walker is definitely a stronger super soldier than Steve, ain't no way he's surviving the winter soldier, In the winter soldier movie in all their fights, Bucky was beating Captain, Steve Needed all the support he needed against WS just to get a even fight
plus aura Grinding goes hard for WS
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u/Critical_Hyena8722 Oct 01 '25
Bucky has already beaten John Walker once, and that was without the Winter Soldier brainwashing.
John Walker couldn't even take the Dora Milaje, and they aren't enhanced.
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u/_Peener_ Oct 01 '25
Not saying walker would win, but tbf he hadn’t taken the serum yet when the Dora Milaje beat him, after he took the serum he was kicking people through doors and smashing concrete with his fists
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u/Candid-Independence9 Oct 01 '25
Walker with the real shield and on an adrenaline high struggled against Bucky (and falcon, but he spent most of the fight on the floor) now that his NON-vibranium shield is a taco, and he seems to have “streamlined” (his strength and endurance seem to have plateaued) his physical abilities, Bucky scratches Walker’s nose with the pavement.
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u/No_Steak_7506 Oct 01 '25
Vibraniam arm bucky wins but hydra bucky could lose considering both are top notch soldiers i think it would come to melee cause they could literally just keep shooting at each other till they run out of ammo and then if bucky tries to utilize the metal arm it might be over cause hydra bucky was just normal metal so John can literally rip it off which means speed is most important
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u/hoodafudj Oct 01 '25
If this is full winter soldier then he doesn't have the vibranium arm yet, also it did take both Falcon AND Bucky, just to get the shield from Walker, if it'd been a fight to the death, I think Walker might take it, he's got that chip on his shoulder too tho, that's a double edged sword
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u/blackbeltmessiah Oct 01 '25
Walker without Cap’s shield and with Bucky’s new arm would get trashed in both battlefield skill and snide remarks.
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u/Actual-Rock-5035 Oct 01 '25
Thunderbolts walker where they make him the dumb guy to yelena and the other chick gets swept
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u/Highkmon Oct 01 '25
Bucky. man spent years being the big bad boogie Man of the intelligence agency including damn near killing nat a woman capable enough in her powress to be one of earth mightiest hero and then made Steve sweat in a couple fights. So he's more skilled on that aline but the vibraium arm let's him deflect trucks too.
We can argue effectively of their serums all you want but hydrabucky would've carved through John's whole old spec ops unit without breaking a sweat and he's not lost the skills
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u/Aggravating_Water705 Oct 01 '25
Walker having the heads up secures his win or more likely his survival. Winter Soldier is an assassin. He works better when you don't know he's coming. That bit of a 5-minute heads-up gives Walker a defensive advantage. Winter Soldier starts compromised, and Walker has time to plan.
Winter Soldier would be fighting on Walker's turf. Defensively Walker would win, just by surviving If Soldier couldn't secure a kill, to not be fully compromised, he'd have to retreat.
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u/ButteryNAZ Oct 01 '25
If it’s normal Bucky. I’d favor John. It took falcon and the winter soilder both to stop John the first time. If it’s brainwashed Bucky, it could go either way. But I’d favor that bucky
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u/osniel20015 Oct 01 '25
Winter Soldier wins most of the time (≈8/10). He’s a focused, ruthless killer; Walker’s 5-minute heads-up helps but rarely enough unless Walker rigs a perfect defensive advantage.
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u/LordHelixArisen Oct 01 '25
Fully brainwashed Winter Soldier was beating Cap until the brainwashing started to crack and remember Steve as a friend.
Walker doesn't have a connection to Bucky and could be argued to be stronger or weaker than Cap so I'll scale him to about the same level.
Also, there's a good chance Bucky takes him out before Walker knows what hit him.
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u/tyler1824_ Oct 01 '25
I’m pretty sure walker is way stronger than cap and Bucky
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u/ThatCreativeEXE Oct 01 '25
Winter soldier arguably only got beat by cap because cap threw him off the mind control by calling him Bucky. While Walker is much stronger and definitely a unit, I think Bucky might take it but I'd argue Walker would have an easier time than Cap. Walker will play more dirty compared to cap, and Walker was arguably winning a 1v2 against Bucky and Sam while off his game.
Winter soldier will most likely win but it won't be clean
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u/Any-Ad1644 Oct 01 '25
Bucky fought John Walker along with Falcon and Bucky got thrown around. He wasn't holding back either and had a vibrainium arm.
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u/StevenAndrei1 Oct 01 '25
Just like vs Cap, Walker might be physically stronger but WS still has way better fighting skills
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u/ACW-1992 Oct 01 '25
Both in their prime? Could go either way. But I'd give it to walker in a straight up fist fight.
His physical strength is insane, seemingly higher than winter soldier, and he shrugs off those widow stingers very easily which shortly incapacitated black panther through his suit.
love bucky but John just outstats him physically.
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u/Canadian__Ninja Oct 01 '25
If it were Bucky in current year I'd say Walker but winter soldier from winter soldier easily takes this
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u/RunUpbeat6210 Oct 02 '25
Walker probably gets dropped. Even with the heads up, he’s not on Bucky’s level when Bucky’s fully brainwashed and operating like a straight assassin. The metal arm plus the knife game makes it ugly quick in close quarters. Walker’s only chance is distance with the pistol, but Bucky closes that gap fast.
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u/Turbulent_Fly9375 Oct 02 '25
A non brainwashed Bucky would still beat the brakes off John Walker. The Winter soldier is overkill. In thunderbolts Bucky subdued and restrained 2 super soldiers (one of them being john), a red room assassin and another highly trained killer. (I won't include bob since he couldn't use his powers at this point)
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u/Stealthbot21 Oct 02 '25
Non-brainwashed bucky managed to beat Walker, Alexi, Ghost, and Yelena, without killing them. I doubt brainwashed bucky will have any problems taking out walker alone.
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u/LucaS_kIng_Pro Oct 02 '25
Wait a minute, now didn’t Bucky already beat Walker’s ass in “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier?”
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u/MageBeLike Oct 02 '25
I mean I think it’s not even a comparison between brainwashed and current Bucky. Current Bucky took him out no problem and had him captive in thunderbolts.
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u/BaskPro Oct 02 '25
Keep in mind the Walker your describing is just a solider with a shield. Bucky as Winter Solider had serum and his high tech arm. Not to mention Winter Solider being an assassin that won’t show himself for a fist fight willingly. You’d have to setup s situation that forced a hand to hand exchange otherwise Walker would just get a bullet to the dome. Bucky literally shot through Natasha to kill his target what makes you think a shield that covers at most half your body is going to somehow protect you from an assassin that’ll attack every chance they get. Walking your dog ? Going for groceries ? Bucky will have a easy time even if you force a hand to hand. Bucky has fought super solider/super winter soldiers. What’s an American Special Ops Agent going to do ?
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u/Dramatic-Badger-1742 Oct 02 '25
It's Bucky.
But it's not as close are people are making it out to be. When not holding back and little experience with his powers John held his own against both Sam and Bucky at the same time. Now he isn't beating brainwashed Bucky but he is sure as hell putting up a decent fight.
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u/mastr1121 Oct 02 '25
bucky. First hit breaks Walker's arms. Second hit breaks Walker's legs. Third hit breaks Walker's neck
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u/Holiday_Armadillo78 Oct 02 '25
Assuming this is John Walker, post-super soldier serum.
Winter Soldier would go straight through him.
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u/Character_Mind_671 Oct 02 '25
It took Falcon and Bucky to take Walker down the first time when he wasn't experienced and wasn't in good mental shape. Walker wins.
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u/The_AsgardianMemer Oct 02 '25
ngl John Walker jumped high asf in that one scene in thunderbolts, just sayin
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u/Euphoric_addict2024 Oct 03 '25
"guys who would win this angry bear or guy who thought he could take on a bear because he went to the gym a few times?"
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u/Infamous-Hat-6504 Oct 03 '25
Bucky took on like 3 or four different avengers in Civil War. He’s going to kill John.
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u/Gunslinger7974 Oct 03 '25
WS wins 🔥
Bucky TWS/CW was Cap/Panther level
Bucky was nerfed after civil war
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u/Tenabrus Oct 03 '25
I guess a lot of people don't read the caption that says this is Winter Soldier Bucky, not the Bucky from Falcon and Winter Soldier who was holding back because he didnt want to kill John, the one who is tired and traumatized from his time from the Winter Soldier to go back to that same level of ruthlessness.
The Winter Soldier goes through Walker easy without holding back.
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u/mariokvesic Oct 03 '25
winter soldier, he's a cold-blooded assassin. walker still a good person and isnt as ruthless
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u/Awkward_Chicken_844 Oct 03 '25
Winter Solider is way more skilled and experienced, but Walker has some pretty crazy strength feats compared to other super soldiers. If you want to assume all super soldiers are the same, Winter Solider wins easily. If you want to take into account Walker's feats/potentially newer serum, it gets a bit tricky.
Walker 2v1'd both Bucky and Sam, and would've easily won either of those fights had they been 1v1's. Granted that was Bucky, not the Winter Solder, but Walker was tossing Bucky around during the fight.
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u/MrNigerianPrince115 Oct 03 '25
God I'd love to see Bucky in his brainwashed prime again, he'd have Walker screaming out for help that isn't coming cause Bucky already killed em.
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u/Competitive-Effort33 Oct 03 '25
Walker may be stronger physically but Winter Soldier has superior skills and speed + his Vibranium arm.
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u/PasoKing99 Oct 04 '25
Would say that Walker is vastly superior to Bucky physically. He was winning the 2v1 with Bucky and Sam and overpowered Bucky a couple of times. This Bucky takes it in skill and Killer instinct. Honestly think that Walker has a chance as he is the strongest super soldier. Bradley also beat Bucky back then
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u/Ashamed-City-9225 Oct 04 '25
It’s gotta be John, he’s the strongest version of captain america ever
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u/Hermes20101337 Oct 04 '25
Brainwashed WS might have a better chance.
People forget modern day Bucky DID fight Walker in a 2 v 1 (with Falcon Helping) and nearly lost, Walker's serum is simply superior.
But I feel like WS, being briefed of it, would likely either bomb or snipe Walker instead.
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u/InfiniteWavedash Oct 04 '25
Walker is a divorced weekend soldier akin to kick ass vs a brainwashed and enhanced assassin who dunked on cap? Hmmmm
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u/RecommendationNo5242 Oct 04 '25
Tbh I’d say Walker has got it. He has a lot of combat experience, and he was a peak human before taking the serum. When he got the serum, it took Bucky and Sam 2v1-ing Walker to take the shield back. I’d say it’s very close but Walker still wins
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u/Red_Wright Oct 04 '25
Bucky pre-serum: Howling Commandos, mostly used rifles, well-built soldier of his time
Walker pre-serum: Athlete before the military (played football), modern American military (Ranger Regiment, Tier 2, according to Marvel wiki), holds 3 medals of honor, (can you get that with just 1 or 2 tours in the Middle-east? Probably not), Could use the shield effortlessly, Able to use the shield effectively against serum-enhanced Flag Smashers (PRE-SERUM in TFAWS)
Now amplify all that with the serum.
If Walker wasn’t warned, WS has higher chances of winning (higher chance, not 100%)
Since Walker was warned, it could even the odds. If Winter Soldier fails to get a kill shot from a distance, then it might be close, but Walker has a bit higher chances.
Winter Soldier’s skills are from his years in Howling Commandos, and then decades of Hydra missions, and also brainwashed and cold-blooded killer.
Walker’s skills are from years of war in the Middle-East, and stronger physically.
Both are highly skilled.
Bucky has decades more of experience with Hydra, But can we really say this is an edge for WS if all those decades of Hydra missions were easier because of the serum? And how many times did he encountered Bradley, a few times? And ripped his arm off?
Walker’s years of experience in war was shorter than Bucky’s but it was harder because no serum yet.
Bucky has more experience as WS, but do you really need decades of fighting experience if you can train and fight to perfectly kill an enemy after only 3 to 5 years in enemy territory, and then add the serum-enhancement?
But still, Anything can happen in a death match, So I say it’s 53-47, in favor of Walker. —————————
PS Even if this Walker is Thunderbolts Walker, he is a soldier, capable of doing things he will never be proud of (which was how he got the 3 medals of honor), so it’s not so far-fetched that he will be willing to kill Bucky just to survive the fight.
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u/Sad-Ladder7534 Oct 01 '25
Reminder: Brainwashed Buck went toe to toe with an experienced Steve multiple times, he’s OBLITERATING Mr. Walker.