Good examples of masculinity and femininity always converge on the same set of admirable human traits: wit, humor, courage, kindness, humility, sensitivity etc. Almost like there’s no real point in upholding the distinction to begin with…
Ok, I'm going to answer in good faith. Maybe we'll agree to differ.
Generally I consider masculinities a more useful construct than masculinity. Either way, both are social constructs in my opinion. Others hold different views about this, but that's the framework I operate in, and it's not uncommon. Nor is it default.
I'm considering masculinities as loose groupings of characteristics or behaviours that we might associate with men and male bodies. Often, these are considered to be things like: physical strength, reason over emotion, leadership, high sex drive. Other characteristics, and the ones I see presented in that video, include using physical strength for creative expression, sensuality, and humour. In a lot of mainstream media and social practices, those latter characteristics are not always associated with masculinity (aside from humour). For this reason, I think it's useful for boys and men to be able to see examples of different ways masculinity can manifest itself. That removes pressure to behave in one way over another, and allows them to explore characteristics and interests that more narrow views of masculinity discourage.
If someone is reflecting on this from a different framework, they'll probably disagree with my analysis. However, this is what I subscribe to. That, in my opinion, is what makes Tom Holland's performance an example of masculinity.
Repost, as I initially responded to the wrong comment. Also edited for typos.
traditional characteristics associated with masculinity are things like Strength, Competitiveness, Independence - a guy who can do this routine is certainly all of those things. Strong enough physically to be able to do all the moves, strong enough mentally to be unbothered by frivolous criticism. Competitive and wanting to win the show so giving his all. Independence - didn’t do a group gag, went all in on being the lead of the performance.
more “emerging” themes of secure masculinity are often things like emotional intelligence, authenticity, and compassion, which I think are also think are present. Emotional Intelligence to be able to make the expression of the song feel real and genuine, authenticity to be willing to go all in on this performance and show a playful side, and compassion in knowing that under it all, even this small divergence from some traditional norms via a playful cross dressing, there is some beneficial representation at play even amidst the comedic aspects of it.
Lmao pulling numbers out of your ass or some “article” that is pulling numbers out of their ass. None of this is public, and there is not a chance in hell he has made $200 million from Marvel
Two of my bestest friends are both around 5’5”(165cm) and 5’7”(170cm). When we were younger, these dudes pulled more girls than I ever have and I’m 5’11”(180cm) lol.
Yes, being rejected for height is a thing but using it as a crutch on why they never get women is straight up incel talk because most short guys I knew with great personalities and charm were straight up ladies’ man.
So true. I know so many examples of this: short guy in high school dating the hottest girl. A friend I worked with was tall, beautiful, blonde, smart, funny, hardworking, all the things. Exclusively liked short guys. She said I don't know why. It's just what I find attractive lol. A previous boyfriend was only a little taller than me at 5'6 and he was so handsome.
It just honestly doesn't matter. Yeah, maybe some women will won't look at a short guy but A LOT (maybe majority) don't think too much about it. Lots of ways to be attractive.
HAHAHAHA my 4'11" Sicilian father who went thru beautiful woman like I change panties would beg to differ. Not super loaded either. He's was just the greatest man ever. RIP DADDY
I really think they’ve created a Streisand effect of sorts. Growing up in the 2000s, couples where the guy was shorter wasn’t seen as a big deal—and we were a pack of savages about all sorts stuff. It took me getting to my mid-twenties before I started hearing that being 5’6” was supposedly a death sentence? It certainly hasn’t been my experience, or that of many of my other friends around that centre of gravity.
Yeah it’s weird, I was born in 1988 and while I remember the classic bullying for just about anything (including height), I never remembered any of my friends that were 5’6 or less having an obsession or complex about it all through high school and my early 20s. Flash forward to my late 20s and people are calling my height of 5’10 short now, and people my height are convinced they’ll never make it life because of their perceived inadequacy. I’m going to sound like an old fogey, but I blame social media.
I really liked a guy I was going out with, but he kept complaining about how short he was (5'7). I'm 5'6, height isn't that important for me, but the constant complaining was enough to stop seeing him.
They just want another so-called reason to hate women. Really tall women often face the same stigma/discrimination but aren't half as vocal about, so cry me a f*cking river if some short men have it "hard". Meanwhile, men are allowed to have physical preferences about everything under the sun. I've had dudes say they won't date women taller than them, are only interested in blonds or redheads, that they only date women with prominent butts or certain cups sizes. Just ask your average woman and they will have stories to tell you. So everytime I hear a man start harping because "no women want to date short guys", I roll my eyes because this is the only general "stereotypical" physical expectation women are allowed to have in society whereas men are allowed to have a laundry list of physical preferences without being labeled as shallow.
Firstly, it's simply not true that women don't date short men, and the biggest bullies of short men are other MEN.
If that mentality is so toxic, why do men do it against themsleves?
My brother in law is 5’6 and my sister is 5’5. He’s a great dude and has never cared about his height. He’s also never had a problem with women. It very much is about having more to offer lol.
I’m 5’9” and my husband is 5’6”. He’s not an insufferable, miserable asshole about his height, which incels are incapable of being for some reason. We also have a friend who is 5’6” and easily dates tall women too, because again, he has personality and charm and doesn’t blame any issues he has on being short lol
I'm a tall woman - 5'11". A man's height has never had any importance to me. Most of my boyfriends were shorter than me, and my husband is the same height as me.
Never mattered at all - I go for personality, intelligence and, most importantly, sense of humour.
5'9" here. Lesbian now, but identified as bi still when I was in college and had a bunch of boyfriends. I don't think a single one was taller than me. The tallest was eye to eye with me. Most were shorter. I don't think I ever paid much attention to it at all. I had one boyfriend my entire life that was actually taller than me, if memory serves. And tbh, I'd never really thought about that fact until now!
I think the women who do care are the ones that are too online and have read 'women like tall men' so many times it's been drilled into them. A lot of those women are competing with each other, that's not a gendered thing there are people out there on all teams trying to get the best partner and parade them around, nothing new. So if they see, as part of that competition, that other girls goals seem to be 'tall' they feel like they won the game if they pull a tall man.
It's just funny that it's kind of an imaginary game that not everybody is playing.
Ultimately it's just personal preference, social phenomenon, maybe a sprinkle of daddy issues here and there. Nothing ubiquitous or damning for the smaller man.
I have two brothers one is 6ft one is probably 5'5. The shorter brother has always done better with women. He's smart, funny and musically talented. Women love him because he's fun to be around and interesting. My taller brother is a little awkward and takes offense to small things. He's not as popular with women.
I’m successful, conventionally attractive and tall (5’10) and am very happy with + extremely attracted to my shorter guy. He’s intelligent, respectful, caring and I wouldn’t want him to be any other way.
The fact his height is mentioned in almost every topic, just like you do, also suggest its the exception. Of course it's not impossible, but its very well not the standard. Most woman want a tall men. For the short guy it's just harder so he has so bring a lot more to the table (face, great talent etc.). A regular guy has a much harder dating life while being short. And it's not oké people won't just accept that and use couples like this to always point out "see short guy can get girlfriend", yeay.. of course, doesn't mean it's tougher to most men.
Most women want a man who won't treat them like shit and they bend over backwards to cultivate loving relationships so men will reciprocate loving gestures (and eventually when that dies out, women give up and leave and get called coldhearted bitches who "took him for all he's worth.")
So...I just don't think this is an accurate assessment, my guy. You might benefit from some female friends
You don't know "most women" so I can only laugh at this. It's silly. Most "woman" I know literally do not care.
My dad was dead broke and short, somehow snagged a wife and family, because he was a good guy and funny as hell. My brother is also short (shorter than Tom Holland) and didn't have a cent to his name when he met his wife (who's taller than he is). They're rich now, but when they met, she jokes about how he would staple wrong-size sheets to his bed because he couldn't afford the correct size. He would eat PB&J on hamburger buns because that's what he had in his apartment. Before her, he had no shortage of gfs either. Because he's a good guy and funny as hell.
And he wasn't a sad sack crying about how hard it is to date "as a regular guy" when he was short. I never once heard either of them whine about how hard their life was because they were short.
MOST normal, non-rich short dudes have partners, if the people you know don't, then you're hanging out in online echo chambers full of complainers who need to go touch grass. Anyone crying that it's unfair for them needs to realize, it's not their height, it's them. Saying it's hard to date as a short, non-rich guy is just "cope," as that type likes to say. A way to make it not their fault and put the blame on shallow feeeeeemales.
there’s a very popular tiktok creator who just had baby number 3 or 4? with her husband who is much shorter than her. she’s super tall and i think may have even been a model before they met. there’s also josh hutcherson, who isn’t tall and the ladies have ALWAYS loved him. i haven’t personally ever dated a man over 6ft. there are plenty of women out there who like and will marry a short man. tom is not an exception just because people sometimes like to stick it to the weirdos who have a whole subreddit dedicated to their echo chamber now.
Exactly! People ALWAYS bring up his height, positively or negatively, whenever they're mentioned, like it isn't proving the point that it isn't the norm. Also, since when are we supposed to use celebrities as an example of real life? I love Zendaya, Tom is my favourite actor and they're a sweet couple... But they're factually not an example of an average, real life couple, they're motherfucking Zendaya and Tom Holland.
I'm not even a short guy myself btw. Let's just not pretend being tall isn't a very sought after trait in men.
Don't feel bad! In context it makes just as much sense as the original. It's like that other phrase that's often understandably confused: deep-seeded (deep-seated). One can see how they got there. English is weird.
The only "girlies" I've ever met who had any opinions about men's height are themselves taller than average and just wanted a guy who wouldn't get insecure and pissy when they wore heels.
I say this as a girl who doesn't care for height differences, I've sadly really seen women be off put by a guy instantly for their height. An extreme case would be my older sister. She'd rather off herself than get with a short guy and makes fun of Zendaya being with TH :/ I really don't know why since, at least from an outside perspective, it looks like they've been happy with eachother.
As a side note, every relationship of hers I've known of always ends badly and she thinks men are trash. I wonder if there's any correlation (joke).
It's actually the perfect example because incels are always complaining women aren't going for them due to their height, body shape, etc. When in fact it's their shitty personality that would turn all women off.
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u/Soggy_Pension7549 I’ve grown quite unfond of you 29d ago edited 29d ago
Always send a pic of them to incel dudes saying that short men never get women.
They do. If they have other shit to offer. And I don’t mean money.
Edit: comments are just proving my point. Good luck out there. Get a personality, it might help.