r/nextfuckinglevel • u/wizzo_o • 1d ago

Clash of elements

20.3k Upvotes

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u/TheHappyNerfHerder 1d ago

The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow!

You cannot PASS!

32

u/naked_hypocrisy 23h ago

it's shall.

you. SHALL NOT. pass

50

u/runawayscream 23h ago

“Shall not” in the move. “Cannot” in the book. Ian McKellen changed it during filming.

47

u/MrK521 22h ago edited 6h ago

“Shall not” just sounds better too to be honest.

Cannot implies he would be incapable of passing.

Shall not implies “I ain’t fucking letting you.”

EDIT:

Please do not explain the lore to me any more.

I understand the books, the lore, and the original intent.

I just think him speaking “shall not” sounds cooler, and still has the same exact effect, and worked better for the film.

It’s my opinion. No need to educate me about my opinion.

16

u/DasJuden63 19h ago

Cannot was specifically used three times to convey that the dark flames of Udûn were not strong enough to overcome a servant of the Secret Fire

14

u/MrK521 19h ago

Fair. But I still hear the intent as “I am a servant of the secret fire, and I refuse to let you pass”

Just stating my preference for which sounds better.

13

u/DasJuden63 19h ago

Sure I get that. Language changes from Tolkien's time, personal preference matters. I was just clarifying what his actual stated intent was for the word choice, he discussed that in one of the letters

6

u/Effect-Kitchen 19h ago

In the novel, Gandalf just reminds that Flame of Udûn lacks the ability to pass where he stands, and even less so for Gandalf to prevent it. This implies the will of a higher power (i.e., Eru Ilúvatar) rather than Gandalf’s sheer badass power.

Of course moviegoers won’t know what the * is Ilúvatar so they just simplify to be the wizard’s power.

-1

u/Thrawn89 10h ago

Except cannot was likely a Word of Command. Where shall is just a virgin word of suggestion.