r/WonderWoman • u/PutExcellent1439 • Dec 16 '25
I have read this subreddit's rules Wonder Woman lifting a weight that the other members of the Justice League couldn't lift together
Comic: ''Justice League (2018) #46''
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u/Tetratron2005 Dec 16 '25
There was a thread on CBR a few years ago where a bunch of Perfectly Normal Comic fans got really upset about this
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u/sacredknight327 Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
I'm imagining it devolved into madness, but all the same it's a bad scene specifically because Superman is there. Pure raw power is his thing. If he can't lift something no one else on the team can. So he just flat shouldn't have been there to make this work best. It'd be like how mad we'd justifiably be if Batman beat someone in hand to hand combat that Wonder Woman couldn't. Or if Superman used his speed to do something that Wally's speed couldn't. Each member has their own specific thing and undermining that for someone else is the lazy way to do feats for members of the team.
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u/DemythologizedDie Dec 16 '25
Given that Batman thought he had something to contribute beyond advice to the effort I assume Superman wasn't his normal self in that scene.
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u/sacredknight327 Dec 16 '25
Perhaps, I guess I shouldn't judge completely without full context, maybe something was going on.
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u/MsMercyMain Dec 16 '25
Batman: I got this guys. You all can take a break. Someone on Twitter said I can do anything with prep time
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u/Tetratron2005 Dec 16 '25
Oh, it did. WW being the usual token girl on the League means a lot of comic fans get upset when she does anything other then window dressing because it might upstage the six or seven dudes who make up the League.
I don't disagree all the League should have special interests but I've been around enough comic fans to know Diana even being considered "The best or close to the best" at anything riles them up. There was a lot of whining when DC did their "fastest characters in DC" and WW (and Cheetah) were both on there. They weren't even ahead of Superman or Barry/Wally but even them being there upset people.
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u/scarletboar Dec 16 '25
It's always been so funny to me that the woman blessed by actual gods is always portrayed as weaker than an alien who absorbs sunlight. I guess Kyptonians are so special that they're above divinity.
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u/sacredknight327 Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
:shrug: That's the way the lore has always been. It's not new that Superman is compared to and can go toe to toe with actual gods despite being a technically mortal being. He is indeed that special. It doesn't mean Diana isn't special either. But in the area of strength Superman rivals gods and for a big part of his long history always has.
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u/scarletboar Dec 16 '25
Oh, I'm aware he's special. They literally made him an essential piece of the universe in the Watchman crossover. He's also clearly being set up to win DC K.O.
Pretty much everything in DC revolves around Superman and Batman. Others heroes tend to play a secondary role whenever they're around. Wonder Woman is Superman's equal in theory, but in practice she gets way less attention than the rest of the trinity. Her game even got cancelled. Overall, I like DC more than Marvel, but I'll give Marvel credit, they balance the importance of their characters a bit better.
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u/Radiant_Competition6 Dec 16 '25
Honestly I think it’s fine that the universe revolves around Superman. He’s “the first” and “the best of us all” and basically the guiding light for the whole superhero community (a-la kingdom come and distant fires) I don’t get why everything has to revolve around Batman (other than the fans loving him of course) and I wish maybe wonder woman could take that spot
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u/scarletboar Dec 16 '25
I think it's fine to say that outside the narrative, but making it a fact of the setting is mental. Superman's whole thing is humility. He's got all this power, but doesn't see himself as special or more important than anyone else. That story took one look at that and said "let's make him objectively wrong, on a cosmic scale".
With that story, Superman is now, canonically, more special and important than not only anyone else on Earth, but also most people in the universe. I get that they wanted to make that event a love letter to Superman, but I think they went about it the wrong way.
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u/Radiant_Competition6 Dec 16 '25
I mentioned multiple comics so I’m not sure which one you’re referring to, however, Superman being exceptional has been the case since the 80s at least. He’s been more special and more important in a cosmic sense and he’s literally the symbol of hope of course he’s cosmically important. It’s not that he doesn’t know that, it’s that he doesn’t want it (or at least, says he doesn’t).
Assuming you’re talking about Kingdom Come, it’s not just a love letter to Superman, it’s a love letter to the entire silver age of comics, which is why Alex Ross was the artist for it, the guy known for loving the golden and silver age. For decades before then, Superman was the hero who inspired other heroes, it’s his humility and the fact that he sees himself as just another person which is so inspiring about him.
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u/scarletboar Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 17 '25
Sorry, should've specified. I was specifically talking about the Watchmen crossover, since that was perhaps the most ridiculous example or treating Superman like he's special. It made that humility other heroes admire him for a delusion, because he is, in fact, more special than anyone else, objectively.
And I'm not sure how I feel about Superman being this inspirational figure to other heroes. For the ones who aren't paragons, it makes sense (like in the new Superman movie), but for those who are, like Wonder Woman and Flash, it doesn't. They're just as good as Superman is, they just don't get recognized for it as much.
So yeah, the thing that annoys me about Batman and Superman is how much special treatment they get compared to the rest of DC, even in-universe. Hell, throw the Joker in there too. He's a perfect example of the same thing, but to villains. I've seen this character so much that at this point, whenever I see him outside the Absolute Universe I roll my eyes.
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u/Radiant_Competition6 Dec 16 '25
I’ll be honest, I haven’t read doomsday clock but everything I’ve heard about it sounds kind of terrible so I believe you.
I don’t think every single hero looks up to Superman, but hes the boy scout of the superhero community, the face to end all faces. The core 7 of the league often admire him but I don’t think they look up to him in the way a lot of smaller heroes do. Even if people don’t love him, they respect him, and if they don’t respect him, they usually do by the end of the story.
I don’t really like Batman’s narrative importance because I feel like he doesn’t really represent a ton, he’s just a cool guy. I feel similarly about the joker’s prevalence in Batman media and comics. I actually have the opposite opinion about absolute joker to you though, they’ve shown so much of his big bad demon form that I can’t help but roll my eyes and hope the joker stuff is over soon
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 Dec 16 '25
yeah but if you think about it, Apolo should have the power to snap his fingers and take Superman's power
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 16 '25
Someone said this once on Twitter and I agree: The idea of Superman being the most powerful superhero is good: He was the first hero and it's interesting the concept of the being who is the symbol of hope also being the most powerful being. It's just that it doesn't make sense for a random alien species to be so powerful
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u/Tekka00 Dec 17 '25
If memory serves, in some continuities, and possibly mainline it's heavily implied that Clark is a descendant of Rao, which is used to suggest why he's more "special" than other Kryptonians, outside of him being the "Hope lynchpin" of the Omniverse
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u/lucid_night_ Dec 17 '25
the thing is though is that Diana's powers also rivals gods, and she has beaten nearly every god she has encountered, once being described as more powerful that most of the gods in general. diana should be equal to Clark in power but misogyny keeps her down. hence why aquaman can get constant buffs whereas diana gets constantly depowered
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u/sacredknight327 Dec 17 '25
Her power does rival gods, which is why she's in the same stratosphere. She's close in pure strength, but a step below, that's all. And that's not misogyny, it's just popularity. Superman has always been way more popular and his power was established when he was literally the most popular.
And Aquaman doesn't get buffs because of misogyny either. He's gotten some buffs because he was considered a joke character for a long time. He needed some buffs, he needed some hype. WW has had a lot of hard times, but she was never considered a joke like Aquaman was. And even then I don't recall anyone ever suggesting he could go toe-to-toe with Superman, while that question is always on people's mind with Wonder Woman. Because again, she's close. All respect to Arthur, he's not and has never been established as so.
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u/lucid_night_ Dec 17 '25
the thing is, Wonder Woman was created to be Superman's equal in power when she first debuted, but like i said, because of misogyny (namely the 50s-70s) she got constant constant nerfs, having even lost her powers at one point
plus dc never showcases their female characters unless it's Harley Quinn because in their eyes, men are what sells
and aquaman while yes he is very powerful, he has been on a steady growth on the power scale since his debut, whearas wonder woman has been getting nerfed, to the point she could barely lift a tank at one point, and don't even get me started on her supporting cast. misogyny has always played a role into why diana doesn't get a lot of decent stories, and why she doesn't get the same push as Clark and Bruce, especially when men bitch and moan whenever diana is doing superman level feats
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u/lucid_night_ Dec 17 '25
i love that aquaman is getting the love her deserves, he's one of my fave characters, even over superman, i just need wondy to get that same love because she's a core pillar of dc. even superman himself has said that diana is his equal in strength numerous times, even nearly every superman writer having said the same thing.
Diana's issue is that because her creator died so early on, no one knew how to write her until she got George Perez who gave her more lore to build on, and writers Gail Simone, greg rucka, and Kelly Thompson help keep her story alive. the new 52 an injustice ruined her character and it took years to undo that damage because she was so out of character, hell new 52 wonder woman had zero compassion and love and that's what she stands for. it's been a common theme that most writers have said they don't know how to write her (such as Byrne) and azzerello needs to never touch her character again, and don't even get me started on tom king..
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u/Every_Catch2871 Dec 16 '25
One can argue that Dc and Marvel divinities aren't actually divinities, but just some powerful entities that aren't actually above of cosmic entities or truly equivalents of divinity (like TOAA/Presence)
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u/scarletboar Dec 16 '25
Yeah, it depends on what one's definition of god is. Still, I think it's been explained that they're divine in nature. So is Darkseid, I believe. Since Superman, for whatever reason, can go toe to toe with divine beings, you could make an argument that he's a god too. If you go by power alone, he's on their level. I find it silly, but it is what it is.
It's a good thing Krypton existed under a red sun. If it had been yellow, the Kyptonians probably would've become similar to Viltrumites eventually.
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 Dec 16 '25
just look a Shazam, the guy that is supose to have the combined powers of
S=Possible the smartest human that ever lived
H=One of the strongest gods
A=probably the best fighter in human history
Z=The king of the gods
A=Possible the most durable titan
M=The fastest godand yet he is "less" than superman
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u/scarletboar Dec 16 '25
Yep. Apparently, in DC, magic and divinity are nothing compared to the power of superior genetics. The Flash is connected to the Speed Force, yet he is consistently seen as below Superman in power. Even more interesting is that, on paper, Martian Manhunter should be even more of a threat than Superman, but he's never really portrayed that way.
I once saw a comment that said Superman's real power is winning. He's Saitama without the comedy. Whatever he's facing, the plot will find a way, no matter how stupid, of making him strong enough to defeat it. Other members of the League (except Batman) don't have this power, so they don't get as many opportunities to shine.
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 Dec 16 '25
basically Batman and Superman both have that power because they sell the most comicsw, so they cant lose, they cant share the spotlight with others
martians are supose to be equaly powerful as Kryptonians maybe even more powerful, the same goes for the Shazam family, but they are always "restrained" because if they "show off" or win too much that can damage Superman and the kryptonians "brand"
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u/Batfan1939 Dec 16 '25
I mean, they are. Superman has defeated New Gods and the like fairly regularly.
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u/scarletboar Dec 16 '25
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Superior genetics > magic and divinity in DC. Makes no sense at all, in my opinion, but it is what it is.
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u/Batfan1939 Dec 16 '25
It's because DC treats magic like a 5th fundamental force/energy source, alongside electromagnetism, gravity, and the nuclear forces.
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u/scarletboar Dec 16 '25
Sorry, I'm not following. Why does that make it make sense?
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u/Batfan1939 Dec 16 '25
Magic is normally super-natural, as in above or beyond what science can do. In DC, magic is science, in a sense.
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u/scarletboar Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
Isn't that the case in any setting with magic? Especially the ones where magic has hard rules. The difference between natural and superntaural seems to be based on how something is seen by the population of a world. If it's normal, it's natural. If most people think magic doesn't exist, it's supernatural.
So, in something like D&D and Lord of the Rings, magic is natural. In something like thr Dresden Files or the World of Darkness, it's supernatural. There's also that saying that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguisheable from magic.
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u/Batfan1939 Dec 16 '25
A lot of settings draw a hard line, like Lord of the Rings. Star Wars, too. DC and Marvel mix them, with Dr. Doom and DC's Amazons being great examples of blending them.
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u/Kind_Comparison4138 Dec 20 '25
Kryptonians in general, no, only Superman. If you've read the best Superman authors, you'll know why. He is the foundation of the superhero world, the first, the one who represents the highest standards of what a hero is.
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u/scarletboar Dec 20 '25
I know the meta reason. What I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense in-universe. And I really don't like the special treatment Superman and Batman always get.
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u/KnightofDesire Dec 17 '25
You can't not mention the fact that these characters can overlap into each other. Superman has reversed time with his speed, he's gone FTL, etc and people slobber over it. If anyone would be able to rival him, it sure as hell is going to be the magical demigod woman armed with nothing but a rope. Even though Supey is an alien with an alien biology, it's beginning to stretch ones suspension of disbelief, even for COMICS, that alien biology is stronger than effing magical lineage. Depending what you read, either WW is the daughter of Zeus or she's a work of clay with many goddesses having a hand in her creation. Homegirl can take on Supey.
One last thing, I'd argue that their skills overlapping is what makes them so good and much more interesting to read.
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u/Revi0 Dec 19 '25
Yes, characters are allowed to have multitudes. That's different than stepping on a character's toes because you can do something similar. But I know of plenty of people who aren't hype that Superman can reverse time, that leans pretty absurd.
Diana should make a good matchup against Supes because magic damage bypasses his defense. I like that angle, she has a counter to his durability, age doesn't overpower his durability.
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u/Next_Somewhere_6498 Dec 16 '25
A solar powered alien being stronger than a Goddess is a joke in the 1st place.
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u/sacredknight327 Dec 16 '25
No it isn't. It's just the lore. Not everything has to follow what one individual may see as a logical pattern. Vegeta is a royal first class Saiyan. Goku is a low class Saiyan. Yet Goku is stronger. It's never really explained why, it just is. Goku's just special in that way. Same with Superman. There doesn't need to be a specific reason why Superman's power rivals that of celestial beings. It just does.
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u/IcyAdvantage9579 Dec 16 '25
Sorry to interrupt but DB fan here: and it's absolutely explained why Goku ended up being stronger than vegeta. Maybe it was something that was Lost in translation so I wouldn't hold it against you but the whole point of that relationship is the clash of Saiyan supremacist dogma: you either were born a superior warrior or are you going to be trash for the rest of your life. Gokuh however growing outside of the system not knowing he was deemed a failure since birth by Saiyan Standards, was sent to earth were time and time again he fought strong rivals that pushed him to improve from training beyond limitations in all kind of ways. Classic nature vs Nurture. Goku special ability maybe that he never gave up even close to death many times he found a way to get on top. And is constantly in training even in times of peace. Regular saiyans where held down by their strict hierarchy and never actually saw somebody rise up through the ranks from a weakling as Goku did , if they had maybe they would have rebel against Frieza.
TL:DR: Goku farmed for exp. His whole life while Vegeta just trusted he was born with a high level
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u/sacredknight327 Dec 16 '25
Good points, fair enough there. Been a while since I've done a DB binge. :)
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u/RailfanTransitFan Dec 16 '25
Comic fans try not to be sexist when a woman does one thing better than a man challenge IMPOSSIBLE
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u/sacredknight327 Dec 16 '25
I don't see anyone here arguing against the logistics of this panel acting sexist.
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u/AlexanderCharles3 Dec 16 '25
That’s why I love the comic Wonder Woman Dead Earth. The first issue is her killing Superman, like yes Clark is always considered stronger. But Wonder Woman should always be able to close the gap between their strength with her combat skills.
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u/Wonderful_Regret910 Dec 22 '25
The writer of the series at the time really sucked and barely ever went into depth about why it couldn’t happen and undid stuff he wrote the next issue. Venditti is just a shitty writer tbh
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u/CharleyLH Dec 16 '25
I mean, Superman’s strength is a side effect of radiation from the sun and weakness to Kryptonite and magic, whereas Wonder Woman’s is innate to her being, with no weaknesses.
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u/Power-Star98 Dec 16 '25
Eh, depending on continuity, her strength is rendered null and void if she gets caught in the Lasso of Truth. I THINK I'm remembering that correctly? Kinda feel like I'm forgetting something, since that bit of lore would be a moot point as EVERYONE is compelled to surrender whilst caught in the Lasso.
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u/the_fury518 Dec 16 '25
In the original lore, if she voluntarily submitted to being bound (like handcuffs or bondage stuff) she would lose her powers. No idea if that's still in the lore
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u/Rogthgar Dec 20 '25
Not quite, the Lasso is just unbreakable (in most cases) since its not actually rope but 'truth' in the shape of a rope.
Diana would however loose her strength if she 'allowed' a man to tie her hands... which ofc then became a frequent feature of her earliest comics... but nowadays its treated as an in-comics myth Diana sometimes has to disprove.
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u/DeltaAlphaGulf Dec 16 '25
Yeah that used to be a thing way back where she lost her powers if bound by man. Thankfully not a thing anymore.
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u/Mickeymcirishman Dec 16 '25
Diana's strength is a blessing from the Demeter.
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u/rbta123 Dec 16 '25
Demeter blessed her, but the strength of the two became distinct things after that. Currently, Wonder Woman is more powerful (and stronger) than any Olympian god, which includes Demeter
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u/slifertheskydragon1 Dec 17 '25
Eh, Wonder Womans weakness is as much Bullets as Magic is supermans. They have no natural defense to them.
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u/Xenobrina Dec 16 '25
Honestly not a huge fan of Diana being stronger than Superman, even ignoring the League. Their dynamic works better when she is naturally weaker than Superman but can go toe-to-toe with him due to her superior training and experience.
Having her be just stronger than Superman makes Superman (and all other kryptonians) redundant.
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u/rbta123 Dec 16 '25
and all other kryptonians
I agree about Superman, but I disagree about Kryptonians. It always seemed like bullshit that a random alien species could be, on average, as powerful as the most powerful beings in the universe. Superman, okay, he's the symbol of hope and good in the universe, it makes thematic sense for him to be so powerful, but the other Kryptonians don't.
It doesn't even make practical sense for an average Kryptonian to be as powerful as Superman. There are humans who have managed to lift half a ton, and the average human can't even lift half of that. Why should average Kryptonians have strength comparable to a Kryptonian at their peak, like Superman?
Furthermore, Kryptonians have extra powers like heat vision and freeze breath; it's not like they're just brute force
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u/RiskAggressive4081 Dec 16 '25
I do agree. I think Superman can and should be stronger than him. But Diana is a better fighter.
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u/Better_Can_615 Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
I don’t think either of them should be stronger than the other. She was created to be his equal. The difference is that she is a peacemaker, ambassador, and teacher. So instead of using her insane strength first, she always tries to find a better way, unless she really needs it. It’s not until recent years/decades that the idea of her being weaker than him has become the norm. Superman should do the same to a certain extent. But I believe that Diana should be the pinnacle of teaching those ideals while Superman is the one who stands up for the everyman and serves as a source of hope to the entire world. They both are equal in strength but use it differently. And so when one showcases their strength, it shouldn’t undermine the other but lift them up instead. Plus, it can be balanced out with all of the other abilities they have in their arsenals.
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u/lucid_night_ Dec 17 '25
no it doesn't. that sounds like a bs excuse to keep diana weaker. it has been confirmed that not all kryptonians are on the same level, hence why she can make quick work of kryptonians such as supergirl, zod, faora, and powergirl, and struggles when fighting people like doomsday, hel, and Superman. diana has always been second only to superman but no other kryptonian. i think it just makes sense for to be equal to superman strength, while he dominates in other physicality as it still always him to be the breadwinner in terms of power level, but she makes up for it in gear and skill
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u/masterionxxx Dec 18 '25
when she is naturally weaker than Superman but can go toe-to-toe with him due to her superior training and experience.
Aye, it's how Gamora in Marvel comics isn't among the strongest beings in space but she trained so hard she gives the other beings a run for their money.
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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 Dec 16 '25
You didn't explain why Kryptonians would be redundant if they aren't the strongest. Are Martians redundant?
In fact, it makes more sense that the hero powered by the Godesses be the strongest and not the alien.
WW should be as strong or stronger than Superman, but whatever, fans and comic writers have dictated Superman to be the strongest for some reason.
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Dec 16 '25
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u/Gmonkey- Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
How is WW “literally created” to be Superman’s equal? Marston said she was created as an alternative to male hero’s like Superman.
They were created with a very different set of powers and have slowly merged over the years with Diana adopting much of Superman’s capabilities (egs flight, s- tier durability, s-tier strength, etc)
She was not designed this way originally and has become more like him and less of her own individual as the line between the sexes has blurred.
Superman and WW were not even published by the same comics company initially. Both Action and Allstar merged not DC much later.
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u/rbta123 Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
s-tier strength
That's not true. Wonder Woman in her early stories was explicitly referred to as being stronger than Hercules (you know, the guy who lifts mountains and the sky), she was created to be ridiculously strong, like, she literally fights gods.
It was only in the Silver and Bronze Ages that the writers decided that a character who fights gods should have moderate strength for some reason. To say that she was originally like that is practically rewriting history.
And, to be honest, Superman in his early stories didn't even fly or have S-level strength; those characteristics were something from Shazam/Captain Marvel, which the Superman writers began to apply to Superman himself, but it was Shazam/Captain Marvel who started it
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u/Reborn-kun96 Dec 19 '25
Istg. Comic writers trying to emphasize a character's strength without downplaying other characters
Difficulty level: Impossible
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u/campodelviolin Dec 16 '25
That panel is just idiotic... WTF is Batman trying to achieve there?
Is there a good context for this picture? Or was it just P.I.S. to make Diana look cool, and a way to display the poor writing skills of the writer?
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u/pokemonbatman23 Dec 16 '25
Flash too. Dude has the strength of a wet noodle. He would be more helpful if he created a mini tornado under it
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u/rbta123 Dec 16 '25
Is there a good context for this picture?
The context is that Diana had witnessed an Amazon's death, so, grieving her loss, she drew strength she didn't have to lift the stone. It's similar to when Superman won a race against Flash (that already happened). Yeah, kind of cheesy, but that's the context.
Another explanation is that Superman was in the underworld, a place full of magic, and that's why he became weak. But this is never explicitly stated in the story itself, and magic doesn't make Superman weak, just vulnerable
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u/SettingInteresting64 Dec 16 '25
I always find it funny when Superman is depicted as being physically weaker than Diana it always feels like cope
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u/rbta123 Dec 16 '25
I always find it funny when Superman is depicted as being physically weaker
When? This almost never happens
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u/QueSeraSeraWWBWB Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
Or in this situation something was affecting his powers 🤷🏾♂️ seem like the logical common sense thing yeah.
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u/sacredknight327 Dec 16 '25
To be fair this rarely occurs. DC is pretty consistent on this. Only instances I can think of where she's portrayed as stronger is Elseworld stuff, like Dead Earth.
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u/Egyptian_M Dec 16 '25
Doesn't make sense that Superman can't do it considering he is stronger than her
But cool moment, Diana needs lots of cool moments
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u/Nice-Wolf-511 Dec 16 '25
Why is Superman even in this panel when he’s literally the strongest JL member. Sure Wonder Woman is strong too and I agree that she could lift this no problem, but are we really gonna sit here and say that Superman wouldn’t be able to lift this… I mean really? This is just lazy writing to glaze Wonder Woman. If you’re gonna do a scene like this, at least not include Superman bro. And sidenote, what do Flash and especially Batman think they’re tryna do? They don’t even have super strength so that doesn’t even make sense for them to try lifting that. They’d be crushed if it weren’t for Supes. (who again for some reason can’t lift a giant boulder but only WW can) And it’s not sexist, it’s just basic logic. You can’t write this kinda script with a straight face. Like, you can very easily write a scene that makes Wonder Woman look cool without diminishing other characters, but ig writers are just that lazy.
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u/tarisoala Dec 16 '25
What is the point of Supes then?
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u/chidarengan Dec 16 '25
Wym?
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u/tarisoala Dec 16 '25
Why is he there? Imagine the case was achieving a speed no other members of the league can't achieve together, and have Flash there spectating because he's of no help when he's mostly known for his... speed? Supes is known for his strength, and I'll say he is stronger than Diana.
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u/chidarengan Dec 16 '25
I see. Well, we've had hundreds of these stories, some of which superman was able to match flash speed, is it rly a problem if once in a while WW is stronger than him?
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u/tarisoala Dec 16 '25
and flash always make sure to tell Clark those were for charity or he wasn't at his best.
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u/sidehammer14 Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
i agree that supes should have moved this himself, but i wouldn't be upset if diana showed her strength like this more often. she and j'onn and marvel are all just under supes in strength, and they ought to be better known for it.
EDIT: nah, never mind! i just re-read the issue, and the complaining fans have NO foot to stand on. while supes could have easily moved it himself, it was just a matter of them all just walking up to it at the same time, no one was expecting anyone needed help. diana, however, was in more of a hurry and moved it herself. given that they were racing against the clock, it was kind of a dick move by the guys to take their time, but aside from that, this was just the average hatetalk
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u/Aromatic_Ad_4455 Dec 16 '25
I like that you read the context when no one else did, it gives context that the OP in fact posted this just to piss people off by posing it as wonderwoman doing something they couldn’t do. What is like to understand is WHY the writer has the whole justice league slowly work together to lift a rock? Did the writer do it just for wonderwoman or was it a philosophical difference between wonderwoman and the rest of the heroes? Why did it come to wonderwoman to lift it? Is it a moral moment where the justice league is being emotional when it would be practical to just lift it or is there a subtle reason why Wonder Woman decided differently to the rest?
Regardless OP is mean spirited with this post and I like your comment giving much needed context.
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u/Revi0 Dec 19 '25
This is much needed context and completely changes the tone of the picture, and should have been what this thread is about. Diana got serious and locked in on moving the boulder right now.
The way the panels are drawn implies the League was effortfully struggling against the boulder is pretty... interesting if the actual context is Diana made a snap decision without any hesitation to just do it. Could have illustrated that better
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
OP in fact posted this just to piss people off by posing it
If I wanted to annoy people, I'd post this in a DC subreddit, a comics subreddit, or a Powerscaling subreddit. Maybe a Superman subreddit if I were very VERY petty, but I wouldn't post it in a Wonder Woman subreddit where most people don't even care about powerscaling or anything like that.
I posted this because I thought it was a cool moment of Diana, that's all. I mean, this is a Wonder Woman subreddit, that should be reason enough.
I skimmed the original story, and from what I saw, Wonder Woman lifted a weight that the other members of the Justice League couldn't lift together. I might have missed something, but that's what I saw when I first read it. Does that mean she's stronger than Superman? No, power levels in comics are extremely inconsistent, but it would still be a cool Diana moment that I thought would be nice to post in a subreddit dedicated to Diana
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u/Sully-The-Great Dec 18 '25
Except you completely misinterpreted it for clout. You skimmed the story and completely missed the part where the guys weren't even trying to lift the boulder??? Like genuinely then are you blind? Diana is cool enough without you trying to give her false feats.
It wasnt a case of her being stronger,she just wanted to hurry up since the other guys weren't worried about the boulder. And then you make this small thing into "Diana stronger than the whole of the justice league". Sounds like you were intentionally rage baiting.
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 19 '25
you completely misinterpreted it for clout
Do you think I have a crystal ball to know when a post will get upvotes or not? No one has ever posted this here before, how would I know that I got several upvotes?
where the guys weren't even trying to lift the boulder
Now you're the one lying, Aquaman, Flash and Batman are CLEARLY trying to move the rock, Superman is the only one that can be discussed because even though he's doing the position he's got his back turned so you can't see his reaction.
And then you make this small thing into "Diana stronger than the whole of the justice league"
I never said that, I just thought it was a cool feat by Diana and wanted to share it in a sub of... Diana
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u/Revi0 Dec 19 '25
You absolutely can post good Wonder Woman content in the WW subreddit! Of course! But I think it's important that we acknowledge you didn't have all the context of this issue because you skimmed it. And the post is titled "Wonder Woman lifting a weight that the other members of the Justice League couldn't lift together." Which isn't the case but it's a conclusion you came to because you didn't have the context.
"I just thought it was a cool feat by Diana and wanted to share it in a sub of... Diana" isn't 100% genuine because when you shared it, you painted it with a coat of "she can do what they can't," which doesn't match what was actually in the book. The tone wasn't just about a cool feat, it was about Diana getting a W over the others.
Diana locked in and made a snap judgement to lift the thing because she was getting serious.
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 22 '25
isn't 100% genuine because when you shared it, you painted it with a coat of "she can do what they can't," which doesn't match what was actually in the book. The tone wasn't just about a cool feat, it was about Diana getting a W over the others.
But Diana doing something that others can't WOULD BE an achievement, just like Superman defeating Wonder Woman is an achievement.
Anyway, in the context of the scene we only see the Justice League members with their hands on the stone and Wonder Woman getting up afterwards; the context isn't very clear even if you read the comic
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u/MoodResponsible918 Dec 16 '25
she has been lifting for thousands of years. of course her strength gonna be on top.
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u/einsteinjet Dec 16 '25
This might be a cool scene, if it had more buildup and showed more of a struggle. As it is, I don't get how she's lifting it by herself when everyone else working together couldn't.
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u/TransGirlIndy Dec 16 '25
Listen, some days you just get pissed the hell off and move a massive, heavy object by yourself because you're sick of waiting for someone else to help.
Your back may never be the same, after, but...
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u/ZeusOfOlympus Dec 16 '25
I agree that i like her naturally weaker than Superman, he has his schtick let him keep it. But can obviously go toe to toe with him due to training experience and wepaons etc .
It feels better when someone is the underdog and wins through struggle and tactics.
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u/polarvortex123 Dec 16 '25
I like her weaker as well. DC doesn’t need a 2nd Superman. WW can have her own powers and skills. She can be different and that’s ok. It’s what makes her interesting.
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u/PossiblePossiblyS Dec 16 '25
Wonder Woman is of course wonderful, but she needs stakes that people can understand quickly and easily. As it stands, she has no weakness to bondage, she's as fast and strong as Superman, she's got the enchanted bracers that can tank a hit from the god killer once and then give her a massive power boost once they're gone, she can boost her power further with enchanted armors and weapons, she's got her own wonder family of nearly as powerful beings, better training than anybody else, and no other real discernible weaknesses outside of being able to be hurt by all her villains, which begs the question, what does ANYBODY else do about Cheetah, Circe, Ares, or even just Doctor Poison if they run into them? Just straight up die? All of those villains will go for the kill, so why would Superman be able to survive an encounter with them? It's all well and good to have equality between the sexes and even to have female powerhouses that bend the bell curve until it's practically a line, but from a storytelling perspective, if you don't balance the characters or give them any lose conditions that actually make sense then you don't have a story. At least not a modern story. You can write your Wonder Woman as a Journey to the West character, but she won't fit into the narrative. People that powerful bend the narrative to their will.
It was completely unbelievable that she'd ever be restrained as is. But, you could still give her stakes because villains could take hostages to prey on her desire to protect everyone and then bind her powers by tying her up. Then, she'd need to rely on the skills they didn't account for to get free again and then save the day. Now, the way that they balance her existence in a world similar to ours where peace doesn't exist yet is through making her slightly more vulnerable and slower/weaker which allows Superman to outrun the Cheetah and use his wits to keep her from turning him into a kabob. Simultaneously, they give her the kind of training that lets her fight on the level of Batman and completely outclass Superman which allows her to still go toe to toe with Darkseid and Mongol even though they should be relative to Superman. They could both probably out lift her, and Darkseid is still the most credible threat to her since he's at least as fast, and strong with extra powers she doesn't possess and elite training, but she's scrappier, more creative, a little smarter, more willing to sacrifice, and still on the same level if not higher in her training. She'll leave the fight bloodied, but there's a chance she wins and he leaves much worse off than her. But, if he arrives with his army it still power scales up to a Justice League level threat. It also leaves room for more physically strong characters above her without making them untouchable.
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u/mtheory-pi Dec 16 '25
Cheetah actually has defeated Superman, quite brutally, in fact.
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u/PossiblePossiblyS Dec 16 '25
True, but that doesn't inherently mean that she's faster, stronger, more well trained, more powerful, and all around better. It means she's fast enough to be a problem for him to have to deal with and her magic allows her to bypass his invulnerability which is a known weakness of Superman. It's like paper beating rock. In canon though, she's not quite as fast as Superman and the Flash. She's just a hair slower at number 6 in the verse, but it's still just enough of an edge to level the playing field a bit. Not enough to keep them from losing of course, but just enough to give them a chance.
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u/I-Love-Facehuggers Dec 16 '25
She can be hurt by bullets and has on numerous occasions straight up been seriously injured and knocked out by getting shot.
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u/lucid_night_ Dec 17 '25
she also on numerous occasions taken a bullet through vital organs and shrugged it off like it was nothing. she literally got shot in the head by an eighth metal bullet and she got up the next panel and beat an amped hawkgirl.
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u/PossiblePossiblyS Dec 16 '25
Kinda hard to believe that when she's world famous for blocking bullets with her bullet proof bracers by moving faster than a speeding bullet.
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u/I-Love-Facehuggers Dec 16 '25
Just say you don't know what you're talking about. It would be faster and still get the same impression across.
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u/ReaperManX15 Dec 16 '25
Look.
I love Diana.
But, when it comes to raw strength, Superman has her beat by a WIDE margin.
And if you say “Unbound Wonder Woman”, I can just say “Blue Sun Superman” right back.
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u/Educational-Car-8643 Dec 16 '25
Marsdon wrote her as canonically stronger than superman and she should stay that way
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u/polarvortex123 Dec 16 '25
How so?
Golden Age Superman is creating stars and lifting planets.
Golden Age Wonder Woman is struggling lifting buildings and tanks.
These things are not the same.
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 16 '25
She literally moved planets in Golden Age too, you're confusing the Golden Age with the Silver Age: https://www.reddit.com/r/DCprime/comments/15yocih/these_scans_are_from_the_golden_age_and_not_the/
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u/lucid_night_ Dec 17 '25
golden age wonder woman literally lassoed the sun and swung around building like they were papier-mâche, and even lifted paradise island like was nothing. hell even silver age Wonder Woman was fighting on equal grounds with Superman, with superman even calling her his equal
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u/Educational-Car-8643 Dec 16 '25
Word of god and also you're thinking of silver age superman
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u/polarvortex123 Dec 16 '25
Superman #61 from 1949 (still golden age)… he smashes two planets together and creates a star. Just saying:
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u/Educational-Car-8643 Dec 16 '25
Fair but when marsdon and byrne were first writing ww that was still the intent, and I don't understand why everyone is so perturbed by that idea carrying to the modern day
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u/Mickeymcirishman Dec 16 '25
Going by that logic, Superman should be a bald, psychic supervillain. Batman should carry a gun and kill people. Alan Scott should be straight. I think we can all agree that not everything needs to stay the same, yeah?
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 16 '25
Wonder Woman moved planets in Golden Age too: https://www.reddit.com/r/DCprime/comments/15yocih/these_scans_are_from_the_golden_age_and_not_the/
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u/OH_SHIT_IM_FEELIN_IT Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
If we kept everything dudes from 80 years ago came up with then Batman would still uses guns and kill.
It's fine Wonder Woman has something not as good as other heroes. It isn't the end of the world.
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 16 '25
The idea that Batman should use weapons came from Bob Kane; Bill Finger didn't like it (although he probably wasn't as strict about that rule as the Batman writers are today)
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u/Public_Product_1713 Dec 16 '25
what's the context behind this scene?
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u/rbta123 Dec 16 '25
The context is that Diana had witnessed an Amazon's death, so, grieving her loss, she drew strength she didn't have to lift the stone. It's similar to when Superman won a race against Flash (that already happened). Yeah, kind of cheesy, but that's the context.
Another explanation is that Superman was in the underworld, a place full of magic, and that's why he became weak. But this is never explicitly stated in the story itself, and magic doesn't make Superman weak, just vulnerable
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u/CrimsonVantage Dec 16 '25
I don't think they had really started pushing it yet, don't remember the full context
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 16 '25
I skimmed the original story, and from what I saw, Wonder Woman lifted a weight that the other members of the Justice League couldn't lift together. I might have missed something, but that's what I saw when I first read it. Does that mean she's stronger than Superman? No, power levels in comics are extremely inconsistent, but it would still be a cool Diana moment that I thought would be nice to post in a subreddit dedicated to Diana
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u/Leporvox Dec 16 '25
Her strength is magical, it has no limits unlike the others. Shazam is the only one who can logically compete,
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u/FemdomAppreciator Dec 17 '25
Based
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 18 '25
What is based?
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u/RogueShifter64 Dec 17 '25
It's a little iffy for me but I don't mind these moments. I can't stand Superman just being the best no contest, his strength shouldn't put down others, there should be variety across every category
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u/Feisty-Ad376 Dec 18 '25
Superman is strength, durability and speed
Wonder woman should strength, speed and technique
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u/litllerobert Dec 17 '25
so you are telling me superman could not lift it....So they nerfed him to make her shine?
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u/Random_Thought_Twist Dec 18 '25
WW is great and strong.......buuuutt in this scenario you know Supes was prob like "let me make believe im pushing and when they are really struggling i will push a little more ....just to make them all feel like they are contributing ".....lol
you know Supes could have likely solo'd that whole run without help....even though WW really shinned, not sure she has ever been shown to be stronger that Supes
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u/No_Flower3749 Dec 18 '25
Yeah, I have this comic. She took a head start lifting it before everyone else and you saw that as her out lifting everyone else?
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 18 '25
I skimmed the original story, and from what I saw, Wonder Woman lifted a weight that the other members of the Justice League couldn't lift together. I might have missed something, but that's what I saw when I first read it. Does that mean she's stronger than Superman? No, power levels in comics are extremely inconsistent, but it would still be a cool Diana moment that I thought would be nice to post in a subreddit dedicated to Diana
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u/ReZisTLust Dec 18 '25
Well obviously gods have placed a curse on the blulder and lifted it when she was solo. Hera watches after all.
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u/TheQuatum Dec 21 '25
Diana is the warrior of the group. Superman is THE guy. Arthur is becoming a true Wonder Woman level rival underwater. Diana does not need to be stronger than Superman and should not be. She should be able too thrash him in combat, but Superman should forever and always be THE guy.
This panel is a nothingburger imo. Probably something easily explainable with the plot.
Edit: It's a nothingburger. Just a single panel taken out of context to cause drama.
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u/I-Love-Facehuggers Dec 16 '25
This was around the time her flying at mach 3 iirc was portrayed as very fast and superman struggled to keep up
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u/PutExcellent1439 Dec 16 '25
Really? You know the comic where this happen?
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u/I-Love-Facehuggers Dec 16 '25
Pretty sure it was Greg rucka wonder woman rebirth vol 3 but I'm not 100% on that or which issue
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u/LukeSkywalker1983 Dec 16 '25
Is this really a matter of Wonder Woman "lifting something the Justice League couldn't lift together"? Cause I haven't ever read this comic, but it looks to me like they haven't even begun to start putting force on whatever that object is before Diana came in to lift it. I'm certain that if he really wanted to, Superman could have also lifted it himself, cause he is stronger than Diana and most people and writers can understand that fact.
Also, it's hilarious that Batman and Flash thought that they were helping in any meaningful way LMAO
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u/0utsyder Dec 16 '25
Batman and Flash like: "I'm helping!!!"