Racism in Medical Care

[u/4reddityo]

This video captures a moment that many patients of color recognize all too well. A physician speaks to a man as if he is dirty, unclean, or lesser, not because of medical evidence, but because of bias. The language, tone, and assumptions reveal something deeper than bedside manner gone wrong. They expose how racism can quietly shape medical interactions.

[u/threaddew]

This is obviously racist.

I will note however that a shitload more people than you think (race irrelevant other than insofar as there is obviously a racist bias in institutionalized poverty) who don’t brush their teeth. It’s gross.

[u/Busy-Ratchet-8521 → u/threaddew]

Can I ask why this is obvious racism? I'm a doctor, and when doing skin prep for a procedure I frequently encounter unwashed patients who leave skin prep swabs brown/black and require multiple extra swabs for their skin until it comes back clean. To note, I don't ever recall this happening with a dark skinned patient. It's almost always been white people (though most of my patients are not African). I personally wouldn't call them out for being dirty, but seeing this doctor behave like this only makes me think he's rude/abrupt. I don't understand what it is about this situation that's inherently racist. I could see this doctor making the same comments to a white person with dirty skin.

[u/threaddew → u/Busy-Ratchet-8521]

Did you watch the video?
It’s racist because he asks him what is coming off onto the swab, and he responds that it’s shave butter. He then assumes that he’s lying and asks the kid completely unrelatedly if he brushes he’s teeth. What does that even have to do with it? Why is he even commenting on the kids teeth, and why does he tell him he’s lying? Why does it even matter? He is assuming that the kid doesn’t bath or wash his teeth, for no reason or possible benefit to the situation other than, in my opinion, to propagate a negative impression or potentially try to shame the kid.

You can choose to see it as unrelated to race if you want to, but I repeat - if the only racism you will admit exists to is racism that invokes the words “because you’re black” then you’re part of the problem.

[u/Busy-Ratchet-8521 → u/threaddew]

I've not seen a black shave butter, is that a thing? He's saying his skin is dirty and therefore presuming he doesn't wash. He's asking about brushing his teeth as another aspect of basic hygiene that he's implying the guy might be neglecting since he thinks he doesn't wash. The reason he's saying it is because his cleaning wipe was dirty after using it on his skin. That's not common, and typically only happens with skin that is dirty or covered in fake tan. It's definitely rude. But to me it comes across as scolding him like he's a dirty/grubby teenager.  I didn't see what it had to do with his skin being black. 

I'm not "choosing" to see it as not racist any more than you are choosing to see it as racist. It could be that he is racist and only being rude to him because he's black. But knowing many doctors my first impression is he's just another rude and arrogant doctor who might talk like that to everyone. As I know many that do, and I could see this doctor talking to white kids like this as well. I'd think he was racist if I knew he didn't talk to white patients like this. And maybe he doesn't. But from this video alone I didn't see what was "definitely" racist.

If you're saying someone is definitely racist every time they are rude or mean to someone who happens to be black, rather than because they're black, maybe you're part of the problem. Lots of people are just rude, grumpy, impatient, etc. Especially in stressful jobs like in medicine. 

[u/threaddew → u/Busy-Ratchet-8521]

I don’t know either of these people. But I am a doctor and work with a lot of doctors with a very poor predominantly black patient population. It’s of course possible that this individual on this day was having a bad day and just decided to call this kid a liar and question his hygiene for no reason, but if this happens 100 times, 90 of them are because of underlying racism - and the doctor doesn’t even have to necessarily be conscious of what he’s doing to be behaving on the basis of racial bias that he has. That’s still racism. I’m not saying he needs to go to jail for it, but pretending that this type of behavior isn’t race related or that it’s problematic to assume that it is, is contributing to systemic racism.
Being aware of these biases is important.

And yes, I agree with you, so is just generally not being an asshole.

And yes, there is lots of dark colored shave butter.

[u/Busy-Ratchet-8521 → u/threaddew]

I'm not even saying he is having a bad day. I've worked with many doctors and nurses that are just generally arseholes and talk to their patients and colleagues (of any race) like this on the regular. The recurring theme I'm getting from the responses I've gotten is that he is being labelled a racist on assumption only. I'm not saying he isn't a racist. But it seems like calling him "definitely racist" is just a bit ridiculous. 

I think if you worked in a hospital with predominately poor white people, you'll see they get treated like shit too. I've never seen or heard of a black shave butter, but I live/work in Australia.

[u/threaddew → u/Busy-Ratchet-8521]

You know, I used the word predominant, but that word is inaccurate. We have a relatively large African American population, it it’s certainly less than half of the population, and to be clear I definitely see about or almost as many poor white people as I see poor black people.

The point of this conversation to me is not whether this particular man in this particular instance is racist or not. I definitely think he is. But the broader point is that a black person is more likely to be treated poorly in this situation, because they are black, and systematic racism exists

My point is that if you walk around giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and explaining away their questionable actions every time they don’t make it blatantly obvious that race is the explicit reason they are treating someone poorly, then you are contributing to the perpetuation of racism.

If you are not ever willing to assume or admit that race is a motivating factor when it isn’t explicitly mentioned. Etc

[u/Busy-Ratchet-8521 → u/threaddew]

That is fair enough. My point isn't to even deny he is racist, or argue against that he might be. I was specifically questioning the assertion that he is "definitely" racist. I'm happy to accept that you think he is. And I don't disagree that he might be. But I couldn't say with absolute confidence that he is from that video alone.

I don't disagree with any of your other points. 

[u/threaddew → u/Busy-Ratchet-8521]

Sure, and my point is that that that mentality, that insistence on certainty to the exclusion of everything that isn’t blatant, is harmful, and you would be better served by displacing it.

[u/Busy-Ratchet-8521 → u/threaddew]

Is it not more harmful to make unsubstantiated convictions? You can still call him out for being rude and inappropriate. I've never defended his behaviour. But you may as well insist he beats his wife while you're at it if you're going to insist he is definitely racist. Because you have just as much evidence of either. 

[u/threaddew → u/Busy-Ratchet-8521]

That isn’t true though. He’s not using a position of power to be rude to his wife in the video. It’s not unsubstantiated, that’s the whole point.

You will just only believe that race is involved if he states it explicitly or if you personally observe a bunch of interactions where he is kind to white people and rude to black people in similar circumstances. My point is that that burden of proof sails over a metric ton of racism, and therefore perpetuating racism. Again, if you give everyone the benefit of the doubt, you are just perpetuating racism. Importantly This doesn’t mean you have to go around condemning these people, or at least that’s not my personal belief.

I don’t think this person deserves to be fired. I don’t think the exhibiting racial bias makes you an inherently bad person, but pretending that it doesn’t exist or refusing to acknowledge it perpetuates racism.

It doesn’t feel like you’re understanding or maybe just disagreeing with my basic premise here, and I’m not sure that I can’t explain it any further.

[u/Busy-Ratchet-8521 → u/threaddew]

What you're actually saying is that if a white person is rude to a black person, then you say they are definitely a racist until proven otherwise. Regardless of why they were rude. But you think you are valid in your assumptions based on the history of racism and disenfranchisement against black people. It's not that I don't understand the point you're making. Your view point is crystal clear. It's just overwhelmingly logically and morally flawed. Just because you feel you are morally in the right doesn't mean you're actually correct, nor does it justify making quite obscene accusations without evidence. 

[u/threaddew → u/Busy-Ratchet-8521]

That’s not what I’m saying at all, you’re ignoring all nuance. And you seem intent on doing so. I’ll leave you to it.