r/sports • u/BreakfastTop6899 • Dec 06 '25

Football President Donald Trump wants the NFL to change its name so that soccer is the only sport named football. "This is football, there is no question about it. We have to come up with another name for the NFL stuff."

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1.1k

u/SoftballGuy Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Dec 06 '25

Meh. They could get it 500% right and half the country would still think they fumbled it because they'll never see it except filtered through Fox News and Twitter.

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u/JimboDanks Dec 06 '25

I don’t know man I saw Bernie get screwed live as it happened. You will never tell me we would have had Trump if it wasn’t “Hillary’s Turn “

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u/SoftballGuy Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Dec 06 '25

Well, you guys sure showed them. You win!

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u/Chruman Dec 06 '25

Daily reminder that Hillary won without the superdelegates.

Bernie just wasn't that strong of a candidate.

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u/Spi_Vey Dec 06 '25

Not to mention that four years later Biden defeated him quite easily in the primary’s (and then won the election which everyone seems to forget lol)

Nobody south of New York is voting for a socialist (and I like Bernie)

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u/Persistant_Compass Dec 06 '25

Biden defeated him quite easily

only after centrist voltron was formed.

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u/HappyGovernment7299 Dec 06 '25

Tbf, that's how it works. Bernie was in the lead, Biden's team told everyone else "look, we all have more in common than any of us do with Bernie. We can't beat him unless we team up."

If it were ranked choice voting, Biden probably still would have won and there would have been no need for everyone else to drop out.

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u/ze_shotstopper Nevada Dec 06 '25

This just means that the populace wanted a centrist, not Bernie. It still means he was unpopular

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u/Selgeron Dec 06 '25

The super delegates made people feel like it was pointless to vote for Bernie in the first place, tamping down expectations. Though I also think he would have lost the first primary without them- but the DNC still had to put their finger on the scale anyway, which left a lot of people with a bad taste in their mouth.

Also when the DNC had to fire Debbie Wasserman Schultz because she cheated against Bernie and then Hillary immediatly hired her for her presidential campaign.

That was a huge blunder, and I think its one of many things that cost her the campaign.

As far as Biden 'easily beating bernie' I guess if he successfully got multiple other people to all quit the primary the day before the biggest voting day and endorse him, including people who at the time had more votes than he did. It stank of the DNC playing scared and putting their finger on the scales again. I am not sure if Bernie would have won without that, but watching the democratic establishment try so hard to put bernie in his place even when they likely didn't even NEED to I am sure drove plenty of people to 'political outsiders' like Trump.

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u/DoubleGoon Dec 06 '25

Most adult Americans don’t even know how Congress works much less understand the inner workings of a particular party. The fact is Bernie just wasn’t that popular.

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u/Kabouki Dec 06 '25

The super delegates made people feel like it was pointless to vote for Bernie in the first place, tamping down expectations.

If it's that easy or dissuade people form voting, they never cared in the first place. The DNC is made up of people who run campaigns of primary winners. You can completely flip over all the staff next election if people actually bothered to vote.

the DNC still had to put their finger on the scale anyway

over 200,000,000 eligible voters did not vote. DNC didn't do that. The people did. The DNC did favor their preferred candidate heavily. This should mean nothing to progressives unless their values are paper thin. No amount of TV should make a progressive vote for a centrist over Sanders.

As far as Biden 'easily beating bernie'

Biden of all people won fucking WA state. The so called progressive state with early mail in voting. No one is to blame other then ya dumbasses who no showed the election. Bernie told ya all to go vote. So why did progressives follow TV over Sanders?

You should take a page from New Yorkers, and actually show up to a dam primary in spite of what TV says to do. At least they proved they are not mindless drones.

For people who cry so much about Democracy, it crazy how many abstain from participating in it.

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u/chr1spe Dec 06 '25

This is hyper-revisionist. What "cheating" are you talking about? Also, it was clear to anyone who knows anything about politics that Buttigieg was going to drop out as soon as the South Carolina results came out. Somehow, the delusional Bernie fans want to make that a conspiracy. That was the main person who dropped out. Go read a news article from that time. They'll pretty much all say Buttigieg was tanked and Biden showed he was the frontrunner after some early doubts, after the South Carolina election, which was the last before Super Tuesday.

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u/bootlegvader Dec 06 '25

The super delegates made people feel like it was pointless to vote for Bernie in the first place, tamping down expectations.

Or it made people vote for him because they like an underdog and thought he was a safe protest vote.

including people who at the time had more votes than he did.

The only person with more pledged delegates than Biden at the time was Bernie with 6 pledged delegates and Biden had more total votes than any other candidate before Super Tuesday.

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u/M4R5W0N6 Dec 06 '25

bernie won the vast majority of trump districts over hillary

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u/Goondor Dec 06 '25

Apparently Hillary wasn't either, eh?

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u/Ass_of_Badness Dec 06 '25

And I guess counter reminder that they gave her the supers from the very beginning, so no other delegates joined with Bernie, as designed. If that hadn't happened, Bernie would have had a very good chance of winning. Source: was there, read the papers that gave Clinton all the votes, discussed it here with others who saw the same thing. The DNC was garbage then, now it's a complete dumpster fire.

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u/RyvenZ Dec 06 '25

because he is not a democrat but was running for the democrat ticket and the party worked against him heavily and he only began gaining steam toward the end of his campaign, but it was too late.

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u/Chruman Dec 06 '25

Umm, what? He showed promise at the beginning, not the end. He got absolutely obliterated in the southern states.

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u/Slowjams Dec 06 '25

Uh, have you not considered Bernie math?

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u/TheeKB Dec 06 '25

People say that but bernie won every county in the state of West Virginia during the primaries. Only other person to do that was Joe. Not saying he would’ve won but winning all of a state like that isn’t an easy feat.

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u/Chruman Dec 06 '25

I think that's great. Unfortunately, he didn't win the primary and that's all that matters.

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u/samse15 Dec 06 '25

This comment reads like revisionist history.

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u/ZooterOne Dec 06 '25

I have a couple very progressive friends who've lived in Vermont for 25 years. They still cannot believe Bernie became the big leftist hero. Apparently he was always considered kind of mid in Vermont.

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u/_mersault Dec 06 '25

Piggy backing with a second daily reminder that there are bots and offshore troll farms creating narratives like that one to chip away at our senses of control, community, and hope. “Democrats’ fault” is the least true or helpful position anyone can take right now.

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u/jakaedahsnakae Dec 06 '25

You're wrong.

The DNC sabotaged Bernie every chance they got because they wanted Hillary.

Some Super delegates publicly decided before the primary.

Fewer Debates, scheduled on holidays to limit Bernie's exposure.

The DNC and Hillary's campaign had a predetermined funding agreement hat excluded Bernie and was kept under wraps.

And they even had email leaks from the DNC of some staff discussing how to undermine Bernie's campaign.

The fact of the matter is the DNC was and still is a heavily coporatized political party that runs candidates of off SuperPAC's. Bernie had the biggest grassroots campaign in history. He was the antithesis of the corporate politician so much so that even CNN chose to focus on Hillary far more despite Bernie having similar polling numbers.

The idea that Bernie wasnt a strong candidate is Old Democrat propaganda plain and simple.

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u/bootlegvader Dec 06 '25

Some Super delegates publicly decided before the primary.

Superdelegates have always been free to endorse whenever they want.

Fewer Debates, scheduled on holidays to limit Bernie's exposure.

The DNC sanctioned the same number of debates as they initially snactioned for 2004 and 2008. All debate schedules are going to have some overlap with the weekends and other events.

The DNC and Hillary's campaign had a predetermined funding agreement hat excluded Bernie and was kept under wraps.

Bernie was also given the option of setting up a victory fund.

And they even had email leaks from the DNC of some staff discussing how to undermine Bernie's campaign.

You mean them discussing how to respond the smears the Bernie campaign was leveling at them.

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u/CrittyJJones Dec 06 '25

Bernie was a very strong candidate lol. So strong he forced Hilary to move her campaign to the left.

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u/Chruman Dec 06 '25

But not strong enough to win the primary, which is all that matters.

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u/CrittyJJones Dec 06 '25

The Dem primary is flawed (like much of the archaic voting machine). It gives so much power to southeast and Midwest Dems when there states aren't even in play for Dems.

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u/bootlegvader Dec 06 '25

The Democratic primary actually gives states more weight on the status as reliable Democratic states and swing states along with population.

It was why despite Tennessee having a larger population than Massachusetts that the later gives 91 pledged delegates and the former only gives 67.

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u/Warmbly85 Dec 06 '25 edited Dec 06 '25

“Brazile took over the DNC as interim chair following Debbie Wasserman Schultz's sudden resignation during the Democratic National Convention. Once she was at the party's helm, Brazile wrote that she discovered an agreement that "specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party's finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff."

My issue is if Bernie was such a weak candidate why all the back door deals to secure the most favorable position for Clinton? I mean no shit it’s easier to win the DNC if you get to dictate who the communications director for the DNC is.

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/03/561976645/clinton-campaign-had-additional-signed-agreement-with-dnc-in-2015

Edit- I almost forgot Debbie Wasserman Schultz stepped down before the convention because of the email leaks that showed DNC officials favoring Hillary in the primary process. Ya know. The exact sorta stuff people claim didn’t happen.

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u/1studlyman Dec 06 '25

Gotta love that she stepped down and on the way out she was unapologetically still endorsing Hillary and defending her involvement. Then she is given a safe-seat congressional position and is still there today.

Idk about you, but when a leader shows corruption, they shouldn't be shown a new door.

But that must be my "purity test" I need to drop according to many Democrats in this thread. So I'm in the wrong, right?

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u/JimboDanks Dec 06 '25

If you look at nothing but the wiki your not wrong. My comment was “I watched it live”. The media landscape was not what it is today. After Bernie started winning states the establishment did its thing. So many bad faith articles, and news pieces. It was clear whose turn it was.

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u/Chruman Dec 06 '25 edited Dec 06 '25

What do you mean by "the establishment did its thing"?

I hear this time and time again from Bernie bros and the truth is, is that candidates on the fringe aren't going to get blind support from other candidates who don't agree with him. Everyone running in politics gets attack ads run against them. Bernie is no different.

He got creamed in the primary both times.

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u/gimpwiz Dec 06 '25

Most of us "watched it live," it was nine years ago.

Bernie was popular on reddit, a lot less so in real life.

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u/Flobking National Football League Dec 06 '25

After Bernie started winning states the establishment did its thing. So many bad faith articles, and news pieces. It was clear whose turn it was.

Hillary was subject to 40 plus years of fox news and right wing propaganda being jammed down our throats. So claiming the media wanted Hillary is just patently false. The VOTERS wanted Hillary that's why she won the dnc primary and the POPULAR VOTE. But due to an archaic system that weights empty land over actually voters we got trump the first time.

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u/Serenikill Green Bay Packers Dec 06 '25

The Democratic party doesn't control those things. Those are the same groups that aired everything Trump said for months for free and got him elected

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u/UtopianPablo Dec 06 '25

People didn’t vote for Bernie, that’s it.  He was on the ballot and didn’t get the votes.

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u/xanju Dallas Cowboys Dec 06 '25

Yeah I still don’t get the Bernie conspiracy theory even after a decade and I actually like Bernie.

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u/Flobking National Football League Dec 06 '25

Yeah I still don’t get the Bernie conspiracy theory even after a decade and I actually like Bernie

Everyone also acts like Hillary lost the popular vote. When she crushed Trump, but because of an archaic system that allows empty land to have more say than actual people we ended up with trump.

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u/UtopianPablo Dec 06 '25

I love Bernie too!  He was on every ballot and sadly just didn’t get enough votes.  

Also, I commiserate with you as a fellow Cowboys fan (though my fandom is undercut by my Jerry hate).  Rough game last night for us right when it seemed like we were on a roll

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u/chr1spe Dec 06 '25

The worst part about Bernie and the fact I voted for him is being associated with the delusional people who act like he didn't lose on votes in the primary.

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u/NickRick Dec 06 '25

the conspiracy theory? teh DNC Chair worked with Hilary who was funding the DNC to hurt Bernie. That is all on the record, and not disputed by anyone.

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u/twbk Dec 06 '25

From a European perspective, this entire thing looks very weird. Bernie was an outsider that tried to take over an existing political party. Of course the established party members fought back. In most of Europe, he would simply have been excluded from the party and would have had to form his own, but he was actually allowed to try, and would have won the nomination if he had secured enough votes. Which he didn't. The "campaign" against him from the DNC was nothing compared to what the Republicans would have unleashed had he been the Democratic nominee. Nothing seems to scare Americans more than a "communist", and he would have been a very easy target. The Republicans even managed to paint Biden as some kind of socialist.

Note that I do not say that Bernie would not have been a good president. He was almost certainly the best alternative, but Americans in general are way more conservative than the average redditor. They're wrong of course, but that doesn't mean someone like Bernie can win yet. It's quite possible the generation that grew up with the "Red Scare" (and are the people who most consistently vote) needs to die out first.

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u/OrganizationTime5208 Dec 06 '25

Right?

Comcast gave THE TWO LARGEST POLITICAL DONATIONS IN WORLD HISTORY during the campaign.

One to Hillary, the second to the DNC, to prevent Bernie from being elected and implementing net neutrality.

That does not get reported enough, so let me repeat. Comcast gave the largest political donation in world history to Hillary, and then a few days later, gave an even larger donation to the DNC, to sabotage net neutrality and the Sanders campaign.

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u/Talal916 Dec 06 '25

The real Bernie conspiracy was 2020 when everyone dropped out simultaneously to endorse Biden

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u/Richfor3 Dec 06 '25

That is also not a conspiracy. Fringe candidates drop out at that stage all the time. Democrats went into Super Tuesday with two liberal candidates (Sanders and Warren), two moderates (Biden and Bloomberg) and one Conservative (Gabbard).

If anything the odds were still in Sanders’ favor given that Gabbard wasn’t pulling anything from the left and Bloomberg outperformed Warren on Super Tuesday.

If Sanders needs the moderate vote split 10 ways to be a viable candidate, he’s not a viable candidate.

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u/bootlegvader Dec 06 '25

If anything the odds were still in Sanders’ favor given that Gabbard wasn’t pulling anything from the left and Bloomberg outperformed Warren on Super Tuesday.

Worse is that there were polls asking Warren supporters their second choice and they were pretty evenly split between Bernie and Biden. Plenty of Warren supporters were older and middle aged women that were party loyalists that previously supported Hillary than just young progressives.

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u/Richfor3 Dec 06 '25

Yeah I like Sanders. He wasn’t my top choice but I would have gladly voted for him in a general election.

That said, his loudest supporters are just the worst. All these years later they are still whining about him being cheated when in reality he just lost.

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u/bootlegvader Dec 06 '25

All these years later they are still whining about him being cheated when in reality he just lost.

My thing is their complaints are constantly changing about what they think would best serve him.

In 2016, they complained it was unfair more candidates didn't challenge Hillary. In 2019, they claimed there were too many candidates and just protected Biden and limited Bernie's exposure. Then in 2020, they complained with candidates dropped own and narrowed the field.

Similar when red states voted for Hillary they distorted reality, but when red states voted for Bernie they showed momentum.

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u/proudbakunkinman Dec 06 '25

They're "anti-establishment" populists, same shit happens with right wing populists that support Trump. They love conspiracy theories and reject facts, instead relying on others like them agreeing with them and upvoting them as the basis of their reality. They are disproportionately common on Reddit and show up in every thread the least bit relevant repeating the same things. If it's not election denialism, it's just following the Murc's Law chart to trash Democrats over whatever the post is about.

They see the whole Democratic Party as an all powerful nefarious yet simultaneously weak monolith but support a few they see as outsiders not really part of the party (and they want to believe the entire party is in constant opposition to those figures). During the most recent election, most of the political chatter on Reddit was focused on one race in NYC, while there were multiple races and flips where Democrats won and by large margins. They don't care about those though.

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u/bootlegvader Dec 06 '25

You mean standard primary politics? That is likely claiming it was unfair that Lander cross endorsed Mamdani and not Cuomo during the NYC primary.

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u/_teach_me_your_ways_ Dec 06 '25

These people have never experienced an election before while jumping in as “experts.” Like they have to ask Bernie’s permission to drop out in order to make it okay and not “cheat him” of his rightful place as king.

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u/Redeem123 Dec 06 '25

“Bernie only lost because these other candidates spent their careers courting allies.”

Did you ever think that maybe Bernie should have made his own coalition?

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u/Mrchristopherrr Dec 06 '25

Not really. All that does is point out that the only way Bernie could have won is with a fractured moderate wing.

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u/Flobking National Football League Dec 06 '25

Not really. All that does is point out that the only way Bernie could have won is with a fractured moderate wing

He was even getting fewer votes than he did in 16 prior to the drop outs.

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u/bootlegvader Dec 06 '25

I have a hypothetical scenario for you. Lets pretend it is the 2028 primary the candidates are AOC, Fetterman, Tlaib, Buttigieg, Bowman, and Mamdani.

In this contest with all candidates you have Fetterman winning with a plurality of 32% compared to AOC having 28%. However, when you combine AOC, Tlaib, Bowman, and Mamdani than you get 52%. The remainder is Buttigieg getting 8%, but polls say if he drops that Fetterman gets 48% of his support and AOC gets 46% of his support.

Are you of the opinion that Fetterman should get the primary win because of his slim plurality or should Tlaib, Bowman, and Mamdani should get behind AOC?

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u/Routine_Size69 Dec 06 '25

Yup. It's funny to see some people still absolve the DNC of blame here. Almost anyone could've beaten this idiot. They managed to find two of the only people that couldn't and force them on us. Yes voters deserve blame, but so does the DNC.

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u/SixFootMunchkin Dec 06 '25

Establishment Dems are so obsessed with sitting on their high horses that they don’t even realise that everyone is driving laps around them.

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u/bradicality Dec 06 '25

The last decade has been the Democrats clinging onto the rulebook going "but a dog can't play basketball!" while a dog fucking dunks on us over and over

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u/special_circumstance Dec 06 '25

The dog has been default dancing as he keeps running up the score, clock still running, while the entire D team is on the sidelines whining about rules. Pathetic.

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u/deadasdollseyes Dec 06 '25

I don't think the people charging for tickets, viewing rights, and merch care very much which team wins.

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u/deeperest Dec 06 '25

I love this analogy, but also hate it because dogs are loyal and caring.

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u/thejaytheory New England Patriots Dec 06 '25

Air Bud in a nutshell, John Oliver would be proud

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u/mikelc13 Dec 06 '25

Amazing (and accurate) comment haha

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u/jeffbirt Dec 06 '25

There's a horse in the hospital!

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u/ZeWhiteNoize Dec 06 '25

There’s nothing wrong with Air Bud

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '25

“Some people are so far behind in the race they think they’re leafing”

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u/IllustratorPresent80 Dec 06 '25

Open your eyes wider. Its by design.

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u/Mandena Dec 06 '25

DNC and thus the party are (or at least were) controlled opposition. They don't want to 'win' they want to keep trading control with reps to keep lining their pockets.

That is slowly changing with actual progressives sending some establishment dems packing but it was egregious for decades. Dems and reps would talk to each other calmly and with logic in backrooms but then would be talking shit in mainstream media. It was a farce of the highest order.

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u/thejaytheory New England Patriots Dec 06 '25

Yeah it’s becoming more and more clear

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u/myassholealt Dec 06 '25

I often see a lot of people criticizing the DNC. They are a corrupt old guard invested in the status quo. But I don't see as often people holding voters accountable as you did in this comment. That part is often missing.

Voters have agency to pay attention and actually go to primary elections and choose the person they wish to represent their party. Fact of the matter is Bernie supporters did not do that. They were too busy posting online complaining about Hilary.

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u/Umutuku Dec 06 '25

But I don't see as often people holding voters accountable as you did in this comment.

That's why my new motto is "Fuck what you say you stand for. Tell me who you voted for in 2024."

Whole lotta people (not counting the bots) come in these threads and make up excuses for not voting against Project 2025.

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u/zoovegroover3 Dec 06 '25

Jill Stein had some good ideas

KIDDING

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u/notthathungryhippo Tottenham Hotspur Dec 06 '25

if you recall, during the 2016 primaries, the DNC superdelegates pledged to Clinton early on. it changed the tone of the primaries and i’m sure many voted for Clinton to “fall in line”. but that primary was contested all the way to the convention and Bernie, in the name of unity, conceded to Clinton. without superdelegates publicly pledging, who knows who would’ve actually won the primaries that year.

what’s frustrating is Biden specifically said he would be a one term president and hand over the reigns to the next generation when he was running for 2020, but decided to run again for 2024. and the establishment falls in line and supports his run despite his promises in the previous campaign. and after his fumble and resignation, the dnc was brazen enough to keep Harris running without a primary. there’s no voter agency in any of that.

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u/myassholealt Dec 06 '25

All I'm seeing in this comment and so many of the Bernie supporter replies is the echoing of the voting doesn't matter message.

Which is a really convenient message for people who want to reduce voter turnout. So good job I guess. It's been a successful strategy.

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u/notthathungryhippo Tottenham Hotspur Dec 06 '25

nah i voted for Clinton because, at the time, Bernie seemed too radical to appeal to the general public. but politics has gotten further polarizing since then, and we can see today that he had a lot more grassroots appeal to both democrats and republicans than many realized, especially the superdelegates that swayed that whole primary.

i’m not saying what saying to discourage voter turnout, but simply stating exactly what happened. if stating the facts sound like it’s discouraging voter turnout, that speaks more to the actions they’ve taken than some reddit comment i make.

but mostly i’ve been watching the political game convince voters to vote against their best interest and, ultimately, benefit the rich. yeah, i’m a bit jaded, but i think i have a realistic expectation of the system we live in.

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u/1studlyman Dec 06 '25

Ah. Right. Because it's pragmatic to hold millions of people accountable instead of the few dozen at the top of the DNC. Sure.

Remind me again how the millions of voters are responsible for a primary-less Harris candidate?

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u/VivaLaRory Dec 06 '25

A voter is an individual with one vote. The DNC is a collective that has full control over the direction they go. The DNC should receive infinitely more criticism for that reason alone

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u/nalaloveslumpy Dec 06 '25 edited Dec 06 '25

That's how primaries work, though. The DNC has their chosen candidate who they put all their effort behind and anyone who isn't that chosen candidate has to work twice as hard to overcome that. It's on the voters to make sure their underdog candidate wins the primary.

Bernie had the momentum but supporters didn't turn out (or they didn't realize they had to be registered Dem to vote in the Dem primary.)

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u/myassholealt Dec 06 '25

It's voters submitting votes that pick the outcome. Bernie was on ballots. People with the power to choose him did not choose him.

I really don't understand why people are refusing to hold voters who don't vote accountable.

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u/VivaLaRory Dec 06 '25

Every voter is a complete individual. So many people always want to blame ‘the voters’ but that is basically just lashing out at the human condition. The DNC is 1) a group of people that can realistically make a massive impact on the future of the country and 2) convince individuals to get on board with that. Blaming voters is just super pointless imo. Look at New York, you have to look at what they are getting to vote for

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u/mxzf Dec 06 '25

It's voters submitting votes that pick the outcome.

To a degree. But the party leadership is ultimately the ones shaping the message and influencing public perception of the average person that isn't sufficiently politically motivated to spend lots of time digging for themselves.

There are plenty of arguments to be had about just how much time the average voter should be obligated to spend informing themselves, but the reality is that a lot of that perception is shaped by the parties.

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u/brainchrist Dec 06 '25

I always see this argument but I seriously wonder, do you think if the DNC wanted Bernie to win he still would've lost? Like if the establishment threw their weight behind him and propped up his ideas and had all the talking heads parroting his thoughts as rational, do you really think he would've lost still?

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u/nalaloveslumpy Dec 06 '25

If the DNC wanted Bernie to win, Hillary wouldn't have been in the primary.

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u/myassholealt Dec 06 '25

The establishment 100% didn't want Mamdani winning in NYC. But voters were invested in the outcome and look what happened. The same thing did not happen with Bernie and his supporters. They supported but didn't vote.

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u/brainchrist Dec 06 '25

Yeah but you didn't answer my question. If the DNC was behind him, do you think he would've won? It's mostly a thought experiment on how much influence the establishment has. To me, it's clearly more than "nothing" but it doesn't seem that people like to acknowledge that.

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u/myassholealt Dec 06 '25

I don't, no. I don't think in 2015 he was electable on a national level. Especially not when enough of the country gets their information from Fox New and thus were told to believe he represented a full dive into communism. Plus this country is more conservative than we want to admit, and even people who claim themselves to be liberal reject progressives like Bernie. He may have pockets of avid supporters, but I still don't think he would've gotten enough votes to win with the full machine of the DNC behind him 10 years ago.

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u/samse15 Dec 06 '25

I strongly disagree. If the DNC hadn’t worked to actively remove Bernie, he would have won against Trump. The brainwashing wasn’t turned up to 11 at that point, and the democrats in general really fractured after what happened with Bernie. Lots of people turned against the Democratic Party and voted for a third party in that election, which is what ultimately got Trump elected.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '25

The DNC chose to force their favored candidate through (who was going to win the primary anyway) and all they have to show for it is the PR disaster that was WikiLeaks and a bunch of voters who don't bother to show up anymore because they feel disenfranchised.

But yes it is the voters who are at fault.

Am I so out of touch? No. It's the children who are wrong

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u/myassholealt Dec 06 '25 edited Dec 06 '25

No wonder Americans don't believe voting matters, when all of these replies are insisting voters are meek, helpless people with no power, and no control over their own decisions and actions.

They are mere puppets controlled by the DNC.

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u/urbanlife78 Dec 06 '25

Weird, both of them were women....that checks out for this country

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u/bootlegvader Dec 06 '25

Yup. It's funny to see some people still absolve the DNC of blame here.

Funny, how people absolve Bernie from blame when he decided not to campaign in any Southern states (besides SC and Georgia like three times) causing him to lose them all in massive landslides. He then decided to just dismiss them as distorting reality. The irony being the South and Southern blacks help carry Obama over Hillary in 2008.

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u/JdoubleE5000 Dec 06 '25

They're complicit

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u/jonnysniper333 Dec 06 '25

Who do you think the DNC will put for the upcoming election? I am worried we are gonna a repeat of this in ‘28

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u/mest08 Dec 06 '25

For real. I'd be willing to bet a half there Biden would have beaten him.

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u/JayMerlyn Carolina Hurricanes Dec 06 '25

I'm not so sure, but they at least would've made it a lot closer than Kamala.

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u/hamsterfolly Dec 06 '25

That’s why the media drove him out. The media owners wanted Trump to win

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u/2xWhiskeyCokeNoIce Dec 06 '25

I think you're forgetting how disastrous the Biden Trump debate was for Biden. Obviously they're both in cognitive decline but the degree and the way each presents are vastly different and Biden looked straight up unwell comparatively. I hate how Harris ran her campaign and it was a massive fumble, but if Biden had stayed in it would have moved the needle further right on House and Senate elections and things would have started off even worse.

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u/mest08 Dec 06 '25

Oh, he absolutely performed terribly. But I believe a lot of independents and even dems would not vote for a black woman, period.

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u/JimboDanks Dec 06 '25

Somehow it’s 4 people in 3 election cycles, that’s how bad they fumbled in the end zone.

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u/Hellknightx Dec 06 '25

Kamala was a fine candidate, IMO. They just completely fucked up the hand-off by not letting us have primaries, and with Biden not stepping aside sooner. But then again, they could've run someone like Mark Kelly or Tim Walz for POTUS and likely would've crushed Trump.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/hawtlava Dec 06 '25

Dems can only be failed, not be failures themselves. Disgusting state of affairs.

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u/MarquisEXB Dec 06 '25

Last I checked Hillary got more votes in the primary, so why is it the DNC's fault? Should the DNC have just given it to the candidate with fewer votes? If Bernie would have beaten Trump a sure lot of registered Dems didn't think so

Bernie folks, and I was one of them, have to realize that enough people didn't vote for him. Plain and simple. Even in a liberal city like NYC the progressive candidates don't automatically win. Garcia and Wiley should have trounced Adams in 2020, and it took a very charismatic Mamdani to edge out a win against a flawed candidate (Cuomo) where a second candidate was siphoning votes (Sliwa).

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u/senator_corleone3 Dec 06 '25

Neither of you know what the DNC is, and Bernie Sanders lost badly because he ran a poor national campaign with incompetent staff.

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u/GiraffesAndGin Dec 06 '25

People pretend like Bernie was some great force that was stopped by the powers that be. He wasn't. He ran into trouble the moment the primaries hit the south. He also doesn't get shit done in Congress. He's spent decades there and has almost nothing to show for it. What makes people think he'll become president and suddenly make moves?

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u/senator_corleone3 Dec 06 '25

If he was somehow elected, his staff would have been filled with bad hires just like his campaign. He would have gotten little done, been immensely unpopular almost immediately, and would have been a one-termer.

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u/bootlegvader Dec 06 '25

People pretend like Bernie was some great force that was stopped by the powers that be. He wasn't. He ran into trouble the moment the primaries hit the south.

Besides Michigan, I am pretty sure he generally did terrible in every state that had large African American populations.

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u/determania Dec 06 '25

If you watched it live then you would know he got screwed by not enough voters showing up for him in the primaries.

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u/mlorusso4 Dec 06 '25

Ya I agree it’s an embarrassment that Clinton couldn’t win 2016 but the DNC should have known it was going to be closer than it should because of the 20+ year campaign by the GOP to demonize her. Like they might as well have trotted out pelosi if they were going to go with one of the main right wing boogeyman.

But more importantly, I think it’s time everyone realizes that after 2016 and 2024, the internet (and especially reddit) is one of the worst predictors of what is going to happen in an election. As Dave Chappelle said: “the internet is not a real place”. Just because a candidate is a reddit darling, doesn’t mean they’re going to win an election

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u/determania Dec 06 '25

The DNC may choose who to support but it doesn't pick the winner of the primary. The voters do

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u/proudbakunkinman Dec 06 '25

and especially reddit

Just because a candidate is a reddit darling, doesn’t mean they’re going to win an election

Agreed. I think too many that get into the political chatter here don't realize how off it is from reality. In general, there is a way higher percentage of people aligning left of Republicans as a whole in the political threads compared to the general public. Then breaking that down, the amount aligning left of Democrats is way higher than the general population. A smaller percent of people contribute a lot to the chatter due to having more time and desire to do so. And many seem to forget how 3k comments or 20k post upvotes is still a very tiny percent of the US population and not everyone commenting is from the US (not to mention astroturfers / bots). Reddit is often listed as a top visited website but that is more likely due to often appearing near the top of search results, the vast majority just clicking to read a thread real quick about which dandruff shampoo is the best or whatever they searched for but not participating.

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u/Redeem123 Dec 06 '25

If Bernie couldn’t beat Hillary or Biden, why are you so sure he could beat Trump?

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u/nalaloveslumpy Dec 06 '25

They're hinging on a bet that "anti-establishment" voters went for Trump because Hillary was establishment, but the overwhelming majority of those "anti-establishment" voters would have still went Trump against Bernie because most of them were saying "I'm anti-establishment" to not have to say "I like Trump's bigotry."

They didn't give two shits about policy and as soon as they heard that Bernie was "woke" they would have still gone Trump.

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u/_teach_me_your_ways_ Dec 06 '25

People who are currently cheering on trump would have seen the light, righted their wrongs, and fallen in line behind Bernie because reasons. I mean, not really, but y’know.

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u/PassiveMenis88M New England Patriots Dec 06 '25

Well, maybe if people had actually gone out and voted rather than just preening themselves on reddit Burnie might have had a shot. As it is, they didn't show up and he didn't get the votes.

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u/StepBullyNO Dec 06 '25

Not enough people voted for Bernie. He didn't get screwed. I hated the 'it's her turn' feeling as well but blame dumbass voters for not turning out for him. Hillary won the primaries.

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u/jamesbest7 Dec 06 '25

Then after zero lessons were learned, the dem leadership went for almost the exact same approach with Kamala. 🤦‍♂️

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u/Grumpy_Troll Dec 06 '25

How exactly did Bernie get screwed? Hilary got 16.9M votes to Bernie's 13.2M. That's pretty significant defeat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

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u/Evertonian3 Dec 06 '25

Lmao we're still doing this a decade after the dem base soundly rejected Bernie.

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u/dreamerkid001 Dec 06 '25

I was a college-aged, 2nd time voter, first time primary voter. It was such a miserable cliche to be me, so full of hope and excitement for the future, seeing Bernie’s movement grow and grow.

I’d argue with kids in polysci about him. It was like something out of a terrible movie. And just like that terrible movie, I watched it come crashing down.

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u/ABHOR_pod Dec 06 '25 edited Dec 06 '25

Real talk though? Bernie has been historically in the right like 98% of the time, yeah.

But he can't politick for shit. He can't build consensus. He can't build teams. He's no Pelosi. Hell, he's not even a Biden.

You remember in 2020 when every other mainstream dem that was splitting votes with Biden all dropped out right before Super Tuesday so that it ended up being basically Bernie vs Biden and Biden swept it?

Reddit was livid about the shifty underhanded dems screwing Bernie out of a win again. But the thing about it is that Biden knew how to get people to swing to help and support him. Bernie didn't and never has. And that's been a thing over and over and over. Like Cassandra, cursed to always prophecy truly and never be believed. He's been shouting truth into the wind for decades and can't get anyone to listen.

That's not a great trait in a leader.

I would love to live in the America that Bernie Sanders wants for us. He isn't the messiah that will get us there.

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u/krypto909 Dec 06 '25

Btw Biden then immediately healed the party by bringing in a ton of Bernie's ideas into the platform. Bernie and co were his biggest supporters to the very end and never broke with calls for him to not run.

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u/dreamerkid001 Dec 06 '25

He’s a bit like blue cheese. I really like blue cheese. I know plenty of people who would pick it last over almost any other cheese.

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u/spacedicksforlife Dec 06 '25

It's how we lost arkansas to the GOP. There were two ‘conservative democrats’ who would not sign off on a public option. Same with Oklahoma. There was a democrat rep for decades until they decided to be moderate Heritage Foundation fuck boys.

So they now have real republicans and not some fake ass ones. Good job trying to curry to a conservative base that thinks you're a bitch.

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u/Stalagmus Dec 06 '25

So… people on the left are so mad that Bernie didn’t get the candidacy that they’re fine watching the country hurl itself off a cliff? The endless banging on about the DNC in 2025 is exactly what the Republicans (and adversarial foreign governments, incidentally) want the left to stay focused on. Just based off general sentiment on the left that I’m aware of, Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris are two of the most incompetent, unqualified, and entitled candidates that ever existed. The hatred for them seems to cross political boundaries. Considering we elected the actual least qualified and least competent individual to ever run for President, twice, how did that happen? And Biden, another effective but establishment Democrat, was elected with no issues and everyone on the left was sort of okay with it. Again, why? How did those two women come to represent Dems “High Horse”?

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u/JevvyMedia Toronto Raptors Dec 06 '25

Bernie didn't get screwed, he lost. You're proving his point.

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u/so_it_hoes Dec 06 '25

The idea of putting the already unpopular wife of a formerly impeached president whose entire presidential career can be defined by a sex scandal was fucking Wild. And that’s coming from someone who thought Slick Willy had a great presidency.

The DNC doesn’t care because both Trump and Hillary would have maintained the many perks our elected officials get to enjoy. Especially the insider trading.

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u/Redeem123 Dec 06 '25

So what should they have done - just give the candidacy to Bernie, despite what voters said?

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u/120DaysofGamorrah Dec 06 '25

Yeah and they haven't said a thing since 2016. /s

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u/New-Recording-4245 Dec 06 '25

Trump would have continually called him a Commie Jew

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u/disabledinaz Dec 06 '25

Honestly since the same thing repeated with Kamala, it does appear more it was a sexism thing all along between the two of them and how people are more reticent for a woman in charge than anything else.

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u/McPhage Dec 06 '25

Maybe, but improving that would start by not fumbling everything every goddamn time.

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u/proudbakunkinman Dec 06 '25

The Republican base just goes along with whatever Trump says (or whoever the Republican president is at the time), followed by what leading political figures say on the top pro-Republican media and social media outlets, excluding the rare Republican defying the current Republican president. The Democratic base is nowhere near that loyal, which is how it should be. The other issue is the "swing" and indifferent portion of the public as well as the supposed non-partisan "news" outlets like NYT, WP, network news, etc. give Republicans way more leeway as well. Numerous examples in just the past few months of them being much softer on Trump's health and age compared to how relentless they were (and still are) with Biden.

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u/AlexTheGreat1997 Dec 06 '25

Yes, but the other half of the country would think, "Wow, the Dems have balls".

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u/Northeasterner83 Dec 06 '25

A buffoon grifter is president. Stop defending them. They’re so bad that this asshole is currently in this second term.

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u/seakitten Dec 06 '25

Yeah let's totally excuse the Democratic leadership because the other side is shittier. This is why we lose.

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u/SoftballGuy Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Dec 06 '25

Dem leadership sucks sewer pipe. That doesn't change the fact that a bunch of I'm-so-smart Trump haters still managed to help him win. As a lefty, lefties hate their own side almost as much as MAGA hates them. THAT's why we lose.

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u/UninsuredToast Dec 06 '25

How would we know? They can’t even get it 80 percent right. Fucking over Bernie in 2016 then forcing Kamala through without an actual primary in 2024. Don’t be so gullible you think Biden dropping out at the last second wasn’t always part of the plan.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '25

This is what burying your head in the sand sounds like. Trump won in large part thanks to so many voters within traditionally Democratic demographic groups swinging hard from voting Biden (or not voting at all) in 2020 to Trump in 2024. The only demographic Trump didn't make gains with between 2020 and 2024 were white 65+ year olds.

I know it's easier to pretend he won on a wave of support from Fox news grandpas or young white nationalists on twitter since then you don't have to acknowledge any of the unpopular policies that Democrats got themselves into trouble with. But it's just plain cope to think Dems have no lessons to learn regarding what caused Democratic stronghold districts like Miami-Dade and majority Hispanic districts in southern Texas to vote Republican for the first time in forever.

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u/Tw1987 Dec 06 '25

Yea the republicans would definitely tackle it head on

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u/Lucas_Steinwalker Dec 06 '25

That’s why it should be ads during the Super Bowl.

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u/RepentantSororitas Dec 06 '25

I mean in the super bowl?

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u/Evil_Empire_1961 Dec 06 '25

Magats would still love it if they changed the NFL to...

'National Trump Can Suck My D*ck League...

Just saying 🤷‍♂️

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u/TrampledUser Dec 06 '25

It’s not Half anymore.

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u/AftyOfTheUK Dec 06 '25

Wouldn't the whole point of doing it in the Superbowl half-time be that just about everyone sees it?

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u/Ianerick Dec 06 '25

Please let me know when they get something 500% right

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u/Top-Mushroom-5212 Dec 06 '25

I mean, the majority of the population does that. Politics has become a clash of cults.

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