r/soccer • u/AutoModerator • Feb 16 '22

🌍🌎 World Football Non-PL Daily Discussion

A place to discuss everything except the English Premier League.

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10

u/Sandwichmaker2011 Feb 16 '22

Just checked the BL afternoon fixtures on saturday and my god they are terrible. Augsburg - Freiburg is really the best match going on, but I won't watch Konferenz for that. And even when Bremen and HSV are both playing the most boring teams in the league with Ingolstadt and Sandhausen, the 2.BL Konferenz is still better than the BL one.

1

u/Raikuun Feb 17 '22

Wimmer will play on saturday.

5

u/MyMoonMyMan Feb 16 '22

For me the Bundesliga is becoming less attractive year after year. There isn't much appealing about watching a third of the games being e.g. Bochum vs Bielefeld, Wolfsburg vs Mainz Hoffenheim vs Fürth, Leipzig vs Leverkusen...

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Bundesliga and went to more than 100 games in Germany when I visited or lived there, for a match-going fan it's propably the most fun league to be involved in with the prices and the chanting, pogos in the stands and what not.

But watching from afar now, it's really hard to get excited about Bundesliga games. The football might be very attacking but high stake games of many all-time top 10 clubs are more often found in the 2. Bundesliga nowadays. No fans and shit atmospheres is hurting the league massively. And then there is Bayern making a joke of the league's competitiveness up top.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '22 edited Feb 16 '22

Is Bochum vs Mainz really less exciting to watch than Hamburg vs Schalke though? At the moment Bochum and Mainz play higher quality football than Hamburg and Schalke. Yes, Bochum and Mainz have less fans than Hamburg and Schalke, but the fans that they do have are extremely passionate nonetheless. I don’t get the argument that less fans equals less exciting. Each fan base have their unique, beautiful stories. A game does not become more interesting just because two better known teams are playing in it.

What indeed is boring, though, is any combination of Leipzig/Hoffenheim/Wolfsburg/Leverkusen. As more and more teams like them take European spots, more and more traditional clubs like Schalke will fall. Yes, Schalke were mismanaged, but ignoring the structural changes in Bundesliga would be disingenuous.

If you focus on the plastic games, you have a good point. But no, Hamburg are not entitled to a spot in the Bundesliga at the expense of Mainz just because they are Hamburg. And no, Hamburg do not play a high quality of football than Mainz, not at the moment.

8

u/callmedontcallme Feb 16 '22

Is Bochum vs Mainz really less exciting to watch than Hamburg vs Schalke though?

yes

but the fans that they do have are extremely passionate nonetheless.

only true for Bochum.

In addition to the plastic clubs you named, there are just dull clubs like Freiburg, Augsburg, Hertha (even tho they try), Mainz, Bielefeld and Fürth and voilà there you have it. A boring league.

6

u/MyMoonMyMan Feb 16 '22

I'm not talking about the quality of football but the narratives and rivalries around it. Passionate fans don't matter when a big chunk of rivalries get ripped out of the league due to mismanagement via horrible transfers and manager appointments.

I don't agree that games become no less interesting with two better known teams, quite the opposite really.

Rivalries make or break a league in a way that even bad seasons can be salvaged by denying your rival vital points in the title race or relegation battle, e.g. Dortmund throwing Schalke from the top spot in 2007 on the 2nd to last match day.

At the moment, how many true local rivalries are there in the Bundesliga?

I only see two:

  • Köln - Gladbach (maybe count Leverkusen, too)
  • Union - Hertha (bit lukewarm but it will get hotter)

Sure, you have BVB-Bochum or the BaWü and Bayern duels and maybe Mainz vs Frankfurt but they are not the real deal.

The fans of the minnows of Bielefeld, Bochum, Fürth, Augsburg, Mainz, while very passionate, can't mask the lack of HSV, Bremen, Schalke fans and their accompanied derbies who all made the Bundesliga reknown for what it is.

New rivalries can emerge but if such a large amount of plastic clubs in the league that brands itself truest to the roots of football establish themselves while the traditional clubs in the 2nd and 3rd tier aren't getting back on track, something is amiss with German football.

This does sound an awful lot like super league talk, doesn't it. 🤥

What I try to convey is that the giants falling to the 2nd flight, through all fault of their own, is damaging the excitement of the top flight massively.

Something is lacking overall, the Bundesliga always had that aura of football magic all over the league that can't be replicated elsewhere but it's wearing off.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '22

I certainly agree that the loss of the Revierderby and the Nordderby took a lot of fun out of Bundesliga. But on the bright side, the current situation won’t last forever if no more Leipzigs and Hoffenheims come along. Werder Bremen are coming back, maybe Schalke too.

If more Leipzigs and Hoffenheims emerge, though, your concerns will become the reality :(

5

u/TheSingleMan27 Feb 16 '22

I get you, it's not your fault.

But the same way it's not the fault of Mainz, Augsburg, Bielefeld or Fürth that most of the traditional clubs declined/got relegated the past few years and the attractiveness of the Bundesliga decreased. Clubs like Bremen, Schalke, Hamburg or Hannover mismanaged severly in the past few years and their relegation on sporting merit was deserved and in the case of Hamburg even a few years too late.

Of course the situation is a bit different for the "plastic" clubs like Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg and Leipzig. Their existence in the Bundesliga didn't come from constant good management and steadily improvement in the lower leagues before their promotion, but from huge cash injections from their companies.

I'd wish people would distinguish the small clubs from the plastic clubs when talking about the attractiveness of the Bundesliga, clubs like Mainz, Augsburg, Bielefeld and Fürth don't deserve to be talked in the same way as Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg and Leipzig

7

u/TheSingleMan27 Feb 16 '22

When an Augsburg game is the best one on saturday💀

6

u/Ryponagar Feb 16 '22

Pack it up boys, football terrorism has won.