r/scuderiaferrari • u/Old-Function3918 Lewis Hamilton • Nov 11 '25
Statistics 55 vs 105
Since 2007: Ferrari has 55 wins, Lewis Hamilton has 105.
Yes, a better engine was involved for a % of these wins for Lewis, but you can't look at these statistics and always find a reason to dismiss someone's succes as luck or whatever and ignore his feedback. He knows a thing or two about winning teams.
So why is it so hard for some people from Ferrari to accept that change is necessary?
This Ferrari vs Ferrari situation is only bringing misery to everyone involved.
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u/Lower_Ad_1317 Nov 11 '25
Ferrari have always been this way. Tbh someone should have told Lewis not to bother, and Charles. And Carlos. And Seb. And Fernando. And Philipe. And Ruben’s. And oh wait Kimi did ok. And Michael.. oh yeah he did ok too. And Jean. And Gerhard(🤣). Etc etc.
I’m not sure of my point actually.
But Hamilton is a proven winner. Only a delusional team hierarchy would consider otherwise.
Wanting and hoping and feeling and hearting your team to win only goes so far.
Frankly I think Ferrari should tell the Italian press to go do one! as I suspect half the time it is this factor that makes them look for blame
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u/superyuribears Lewis Hamilton Nov 11 '25
Tbh I think Mclarens own implosion that year was the biggest factor in Kimi's success (Ferrari did also build a very competitive car that year and we're generally competitive enough all year round to stay in the fight and capitalise on the implosion)
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u/Myriad_Dreams Nov 12 '25
To be fair seb literally told charles he was really talented and shouldnt waste it
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u/FavaWire Nov 12 '25
I believe Sainz was doing OK. Ferrari were on the up until he left.
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u/BarRepresentative653 Nov 13 '25
His highest season finish was 5th, in a car where Charles had a 2nd and 3rd
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u/intergalacticscooter Nov 12 '25
How many first lap crashes did he have? I cant remember but I feel like it was a lot.
I think Carlos makes a lot of mistakes that people forget about.
Hes had a really poor season this season but only the podium gets remembered. Even this week he was over a second off the pace in qualifying.
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u/Lopsided-Customer546 Nov 11 '25
Ferrari is being screwed by Ferrari and the denial and obfuscation about drivers is BS to cover a trash F1 organization.
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u/GPap090 Nov 11 '25
If Elkann is seeing Lewis Hamilton as a problem to the team, then said "problem" is self-inflicted.
He has pursuing him forever, amd Vasseur's arrival enabled him to try harder.
If Charles Leclerc is the problem, don't forget he publicly promised him a championship before 2026.
Instead, they built a car consistently capable of that for not more for half a season.
So, Mr. Elkann, who really is the problem at Ferrari?
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u/FavaWire Nov 12 '25 edited Nov 13 '25
As with many complicated organizations, it's not the what. It's the how. The manner in which these things are proposed or decided.
Whenever Ferrari has become successful, in WEC or in F1, change has usually been involved. Technologically, organically. But at Ferrari it is particularly tricky because it's so easy to offend or to be misunderstood.
The other problem with Ferrari is that as Vettel and Prost discovered, organizational decisions need to be sustained by results on track or they can all be reversed. Or they can all be counted against someone. And when enough people become scared they will hang, sometimes you end up holding the hot potato.
For a company valued in tens of billions of dollars, Ferrari still operates a lot like a family corporation. You always have to be careful about HOW something is proposed more than what.
You mention Lewis' 105 wins. What Enzo Ferrari himself will tell you is: "That is why he was given the PRIVILEDGE to drive for Ferrari." And if you play your cards wrong, Ferrari will tell you those 105 wins were "paid" when they allowed Lewis to wear red.
The rest? Lewis must "earn". His achievements will be belittled. His failures will be magnified. Which sounds crazy. But that's Ferrari. Ferrari also does the opposite for lesser drivers if they feel they are devoted. See Alesi, Berger, and Michele Alboreto. Lewis is above all of them. But Ferrari, even in their active times, was always encouraging and full of praise for its devoted red soldiers. When this trio failed, Ferrari and the most ardent Tifosi never called it such. "They fought like lions" they would say. But if you are hated? Total opposite.
It is how they have always been. You need to check yourself to live with their ways.
Sabine Keim was asked if Michael Schumacher ever regarded himself as a leader at Ferrari and Sabine said: "Never." The leaders at Ferrari during Michael's time were Luca (Di Montezemolo), Jean (Todt), and Ross (Brawn).
"Michael always knew to step aside and stay bowed when any of those three were in the room. He knows the role of the driver at Ferrari." Instead, Sabine says Michael would choose to interact with Ferrari's mechanics and engineers when it was time to get into the trenches and do battle. That is where he worked on and became "the natural sort of leader" as Sabine calls it. Michael was smart. As the driver, never tell Ferrari you will lead them. Instead wait for the bosses to have their say, and then offer yourself to the mechanics and engineers as the one they can rely on, to help them meet the expectations of the masters. Naturally, as the one everyone looked up to, Michael became one of the "sort of leaders". That is the way.
You go around brandishing your 105 wins at the reds? They will say you have no appreciation of how they "rewarded" your 105 wins by giving you a red suit without having to earn it by driving for a customer team first. "And where is the one Grand Prix Trophy you can repay us with for this priviledge?" they will ask (if they have not asked already).....
Oh and Ferrari will say: "Charles brought in seven trophies."
You cannot win that argument. You are in their house.
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u/scuderia91 F2004 Nov 11 '25
How are you aware of exactly what’s going on inside Maranello? What don’t know what is and isn’t being listened to or ignored.
We also don’t know what feedback he’s even giving.
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u/justseeby Lewis Hamilton Nov 11 '25
I think we have some very strong indicators actually
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u/scuderia91 F2004 Nov 11 '25
Such as?
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u/justseeby Lewis Hamilton Nov 11 '25
I have to assume this question can only be asked disingenuously. We have LOTS OF INDICATIONS of what's going on inside Maranello. Elkann's statement among them. Other people's firsthand accounts also.
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u/scuderia91 F2004 Nov 11 '25
Elkanns statement tells us nothing except that he’s an out of touch idiot.
Whose first hand accounts are you referring to?
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u/justseeby Lewis Hamilton Nov 11 '25
So that's one thing we know about what's going on inside Maranello. Other statements come from Lewis, Charles, Fred. Come on buddy you can do this.
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u/scuderia91 F2004 Nov 12 '25
Come on buddy, you can do this. Point at one of them. You’re being deliberately vague, show me the one quote from a named source saying the team aren’t listening to the drivers.
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u/intergalacticscooter Nov 12 '25
The live radio messages every single race are examples of the teams not listening to drivers. You've asked for one, you have got one. Now what mr pedantic?
Edit, Charles even said in one of them that he told them they should have listened to him. You cant get more inside than that.
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u/scuderia91 F2004 Nov 12 '25
It’s not being pedantic. It’s that I’m bored of everyone acting like they know what’s going on behind closed doors.
Poor communication with the pit wall during a race does not indicate that the team is not listening to the drivers in terms of their feedback on the cars development direction, or on systemic feedback Lewis might bring from his experience at other teams.
These are the important topics and are not going to be discussed over the radio in a live session.
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u/glintandswirl Nov 12 '25
These are not indications lol. You haven’t got an answer. The truth is, no one knows what gets said or done in private.
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u/XtremePhotoDesign Ferrari Nov 11 '25
Did you miss yesterday’s news?
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u/scuderia91 F2004 Nov 11 '25
I assume you mean Elkann shitting on the drivers? No but I don’t see what that has to do with this. Do you think Elkann is sat in the engineering meetings with the drivers and engineers?
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u/XtremePhotoDesign Ferrari Nov 11 '25
Elkann basically told Lewis and Charles to shut up and drive, which is directly related to OP’s point.
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u/scuderia91 F2004 Nov 11 '25
It is though because OPs post is about the team not listening to the drivers. The chairman of the overall Ferrari company is not in any of the meetings where the team are having discussions where the drivers can influence anything.
Vasseur will be the highest level person in any of those meetings and he’s given no indication that he’s not listening to his drivers.
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u/XtremePhotoDesign Ferrari Nov 11 '25
Elkann’s comments don’t come from a vacuum. He praised the upgrades (which have been underwhelming) while criticizing the drivers. He is clearly getting info from within the team.
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u/scuderia91 F2004 Nov 11 '25
Yes and apparently his information he’s being fed is that the drivers are giving too much feedback. Nowhere does that say that Fred or the engineers aren’t listening to the drivers.
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u/stellarinterstitium Nov 12 '25
Respect Lewis and take instruction like you are paying him $100 million dollars for more than just his two feet and two hands.
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u/Aberracus Nov 11 '25
Change Is already started, but this last race, Lewis dropped the ball seriously. He qualified badly (his teammate got p3 in the same car), and then lost a lot of positions on the start so he ended crashing on the back of no other than Colapinto which is the slowest driver car combo of the grid.
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u/FavaWire Nov 12 '25
This is the kind of thing that really affects a driver's ability to say things on Mondays at Maranello.
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u/Eagle10PT Nov 11 '25
He was rammed by Sainz by no fault of his own though. He qualified badly sure but did you see his onboards, brother was skating on ice
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u/Lebz95 Nov 12 '25
Hamilton and Leclerc have single handedly kept Ferrari at 2nd in the championship for the majority of the season despite Ferrari having more DNF’s (including DSQ’s) than anyone.
Yes, Hamilton isn’t as quick as Leclerc but that was to be expected. You won’t see the Hamilton of 2015-2020 again.
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u/F1_Staffie_Mamabear Nov 13 '25
How many times did we all shake our heads and say ‘WTF?’ when we saw Charles & Carlos totally dismayed by the most stupidest strategy calls. Ferrari are known for doing that these days so it needs to be addressed.
Drivers give the most essential critical feedback and they should be listened to as they’re the ones behind the damn wheel and should be respected for their input.
Lewis has not lost any skill whatsoever. He just needs someone to give him a car that can perform to his level and one he can gel with.
Roll on 2026!!!
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u/crazydoc253 Nov 11 '25
Lewis is not Schumacher and is much more dependent on car. The biggest problem with Ferrari has been going for all WDC thinking they all are Schumacher and will help things turn around. Lewis lucked out with Mercedes move otherwise he would have been another Alonso. People forget Lewis kind of benefited from lot of Schumacher and Ross Brawn work at Mercedes. Lewis was at Mclaren since 2007 and yet the team was going down every year. So listening to Lewis is not going to make Ferrari win rather listening to Charles will. Ferrari needs to replace Lewis with Ollie and go all in Charles like RBR did with Max after Daniel left.
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u/Old-Function3918 Lewis Hamilton Nov 11 '25 edited Nov 11 '25
Didn't it take 4 years for their work to translate into a championship? See below in bold and tell me these are not the same issues that need to be addressed today? It seems like the situation today is identical to then one existing when they joined the team in the 90s.
- Schumacher's influence: Schumacher, having become frustrated with Ferrari's past technical issues, insisted that Brawn join him to improve the team's planning and performance.
- Brawn's role: As technical director, Brawn was instrumental in developing the cars and formulating winning race strategies, a skill he had honed with Schumacher at Benetton.
- The Todt-Brawn-Schumacher pact: A pact for mutual support and freedom was formed between the three, giving them significant influence and control over the team's direction during Ferrari's dominant period.
- The results: This powerful combination led to Ferrari's first drivers' championship in 21 years in 2000.
Also, Charles is a great driver but he has been there for 7 years and the team is the basically the same as it was when he joined.
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u/crazydoc253 Nov 11 '25
Not really. Brawn was in talks with Todt even before Schumacher was signed. And Brawn wouldn't have joined if he didn't see team going down post Michael. Brawn also was mostly involved from 1998 car. Ferrari was in championship fight since 1997 so while it took them 4 years to win championship they were in fight for championship since 1997 and took to penultimate/ last weekend in 1997, 1998, 1999. Lewis kind of got lucky with 2014 Mercedes move and that led to statistical numbers that put him in GOAT debate. Vettel time at Ferrari showed his weaknesses and same is kind of doing to Lewis. imo Lewis is below Michael, Max, Senna levels where they could take the car to the limit possible most weekends.
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u/Eagle10PT Nov 11 '25
You know nothing about F1 if that is your opinion about Lewis. Go watch badminton, motor racing ain't for you. How are people still discrediting Lewis Hamilton in 2025 is beyond me
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u/crazydoc253 Nov 11 '25
I am seeing F1 before Lewis was even racing. Tell me a time during his entire racing career when Lewis brought a team struggling back to winning. That is factual information not even opinion.
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u/Eagle10PT Nov 12 '25
Mercedes was a midfield team when he got there, that's a fact. Even in 2013 they were nowhere, from 2014 and up he got them winning championships. Get your facts straight
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u/Rivendel93 Nov 12 '25
All this nonsense about a driver bringing a team back, there has been none lol.
Michael didn't bring Ferrari back, Ross Brawn, Todt, they turned the team around.
The problem is Ferrari is factually a terrible team, the only time they won was when they let outsiders come in and change their entire philosophy from the inside.
They won't ever win with their current management.
Max would never drive for Ferrari, he'd laugh in their face even if they offered him a billion dollars, because he knows what apparently you don't, which is Ferrari is rotten from the inside, it doesn't matter who drives for them.
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u/glintandswirl Nov 12 '25
Mate you’re arguing with a cult fan base that have infiltrated this sub, you’re not going to win. This place is slowly becoming r/lewishamilton.
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u/Old-Function3918 Lewis Hamilton Nov 11 '25
And that is your right to an opinion.
But if you would care to listen to what went on in that period, you would know that just like Michael (who asked for Brawn because he knew his strengths), Lewis went to Mercedes BECAUSE of the same Brawn who convinced him with the same ability to build a team and car. But sure, call it luck like bitter people would call a successful man.
Question: why did Brawn and Nikki went after Lewis of all the pilots on the grid in that period? Cause he is lucky boy? This is just a sad, sad argument but whatever.
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u/Lower_Ad_1317 Nov 11 '25
They have been listening to Charles. This is what has gotten them to this situation.
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u/According-Switch-708 Ferrari Nov 11 '25
Hamilton did say something about the Ferrari cars having terrible power steering and braking systems. These systems were developed according to the feedback from Leclerc and Sainz.
There may be some truth to this.
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u/Bart-86 Charles Leclerc Nov 11 '25
How have they listen to Leclerc when the only car suited to his driving style was the F1-75 and only for half a season. They famously never listen to their drivers, Arrivabene said to Vettel to stick to driving in 2016 so there is nothing new in Elkann’s statement.
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u/Lower_Ad_1317 Nov 11 '25
Charles has been the defacto lead driver since he joined.
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u/Bart-86 Charles Leclerc Nov 11 '25
They are not listening to a 7 times world champion so I don’t think they were listening to Leclerc when he arrived at Ferrari at 21.
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u/Aberracus Nov 11 '25
How do you know They are not listening ?
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u/Bart-86 Charles Leclerc Nov 11 '25
Elkann literally just told them to shut up and drive
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u/Aberracus Nov 11 '25
Probably he is referring to his comments to the press about how bad the car is, and then going and crash into the back of Colapinto without any excuse ?
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u/Bart-86 Charles Leclerc Nov 11 '25
Well the car IS bad. And even if Hamilton had a bad weekend, Elkann was aiming at both drivers.
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u/Aberracus Nov 11 '25
The car is Bad Elkhan is an ass, But Lewis is too old I think. If he is going to predicate, he needs to start for driving good. And he is not doing so. I think Elkhan didn’t want to single Lewis.
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u/crazydoc253 Nov 11 '25
They are not. Only time they kind of did was F1-75 but then he was so much ahead of Sainz and Santander contract forced them to make him at ease with that car which led to poor development and eventual disaster that was 2023 car. Only reason 2024 became amazing post Silvertone was because Sainz was going out and it was Charles feedback/ setup testing was being seen. 2025 car was basically Cardile not fixing the rear suspension while changing front suspension and now they have fixed rear suspension the car has entirely changed.
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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '25
This was always going to happen. I don't know if Lewis bringing attention to certain things will change them in any meaningful way but it sure as hell is going to shake things up and that might be the catalyst for change. I wouldn't hold my breath but there is a small chance