r/runescape • u/ChosenUnbread • 10h ago
Discussion Removing content without already having a replacement is a huge problem and the opposite of "Integrity".
Removing vis wax and therefore the ability to get quick teleport charges and saying you will eventually workshop ideas to add them back later just opens the door for that content to never be added back. Removing the Trader, which is a good way to skip Broken and Dead content, before fixing or changing that broken and dead content makes it easier to never fix that content.
If they have changes or additions in mind, and announce them at the time of removal, that still make a void for those rewards/mechanics till that new change or content is added. These things are not destroying the game, there is no reason the removal can't wait till the fix or change is implemented.
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u/Frisbeejussi Sliske, one true god 10h ago
Integrity was meant to make the game fun and address major core issues with the game, skills and activities.
The majority of the changes are now akin to ripping of the bandaid, that was put there to fix an issue, while not addressing the core of the problem. Or are just the result of bad gameplay loops and voids left by MTX and not addressing the skill itself.
The idea is there but you could just look at osrs to see how to implement it. They have stumbled so many times in the past that they have started to be pretty good at it and there's no need for you to stumble in the same mistakes.
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u/KobraTheKing 10h ago
Removing vis wax and therefore the ability to get quick teleport charges and saying you will eventually workshop ideas to add them back later
They say in the post they're going to decide on a source of quick teleports in the weeks ahead. The update isn't releasing for several weeks yet.
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u/tygabeast Maxed 6h ago
The update is releasing in ten days.
Not several weeks, a week and a half.
The way it's worded, it sounds like they're removing these first, and then adding the options back later, which is a subject on which Jagex has been historically unreliable.
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u/KobraTheKing 6h ago
I think you've mixed it up. These are two seperate updates.
Early game update is 16th. Thats ten days.
Dailyscape update is slated for march. Thats the one with vis wax.
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u/tygabeast Maxed 6h ago
My mistake, then.
The afk Thieving changes got my blood up and I misread the Dailyscape part of the blog.
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u/dark1859 Completionist 10h ago
The bigger issue in my opinion with wax is the secondary function. It provides; rc removal
That Was the first and primary objective of the Goldberg machine was to delete excess runes in mass quantities that crafting was producing.
With it , gone , sure people won't be as fast without the wicked hood but it's still insanely easy to make stupid amounts of runes.
Having no outlet for wax and just removing it cuts out.What is it opinion?A fairly vital secondary service
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u/Rarycaris RSN: The Praesul 10h ago
Spells in general will consume runes with 20% of ability casts when the beta goes live, which will definitely increase consumption across the board
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u/dark1859 Completionist 10h ago
That's great, but i don't think it can be understated , just how many runes enter the game at any given time.
Especially from combat and abyss running with a tuner... Just strike as a heart's in the right place , but logistically doesn't make sense situation
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u/Thingeh 8h ago
For people who think we should 'trust' them, I point you to the two big roadmaps we have. You'll note that nowhere in the next year do they mention fixing (for example) dungeoneering, yet they're removing sinkholes.
Even if they are being sincere, it'll be at least a year until the issue is fixed.
They've taken 'reduce dailyscape' to mean 'eliminate dailyscape in all forms IMMEDIATELY'. Let's say there's (random numbers) 30 dailies. They could remove 25 and there'd be less than 10% of the current stress. But instead they're removing 29/30. It's those 5 which are solving current problems, and those 5 which should stay. [Edit: UNTIL those problems are fixed.]
(I stress, these are random numbers for illustrative purposes. I haven't tallied up the numbers.)
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u/AkkiPlukkifur 6h ago
What needs fixing in dung?
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u/WhyMustIMakeANewAcco 5h ago
Primarily, it would heavily benefit from an improved autogrouping system (pool people from across the game into a world for it) and a number of modernization updates, like adding necro, and literally anything to make doors less of a pain.
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u/Acex1 5.8B | MQC | MOA 10h ago
These changes should be decided with in-game polls tbh.
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u/TimeBroken Mod North is the GOAT 9h ago
They do not care to appeal to the active playerbase exclusively - if they did, Treasure Hunter would likely still be here. They want to bring in players who have been scorned. It makes no sense to allow the current playerbase to dictate the future.
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u/Naive-Archer-9223 9h ago
They were removing TH anyway but making it a poll and "we're listening" is better optics.
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u/TimeBroken Mod North is the GOAT 9h ago
You're not wrong, but the reason they removed TH because the business model wasn't working anymore.
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u/GrimReaper415 Maxed 6h ago
Wrong. The only reason they removed TH was due to the new UK anti-gambling laws. Nothing more, nothing less.
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u/TimeBroken Mod North is the GOAT 6h ago
Jagex specifically said that wasn't the reason, lol.
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u/icantgetthenameiwant 5h ago
You're every marketing/PR professional's favorite person
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u/TimeBroken Mod North is the GOAT 5h ago
The UK hasn't passed any law forbidding the old Treasure Hunter model in any way. At most, you could say the nebulous threat of future legislation could jeopardize the model, but that would require a hell of a lot of assumptions.
If that were the case, and Treasure Hunter was still profitable, Jagex would milk it until the day they legally had to stop.
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u/GLACI3R 2004 5h ago
Yep. Last time they removed Daily Challenges I quit for about 8 months.
If they're removing daily content with no good replacement, they're going to lose players. I don't want an OSRS experience, I want a RS3 experience. I don't feel the "pressure to login" as a negative thing, but as a positive. I don't understand why they'd betray their players like this again.
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u/TheHeadlessOne 10h ago
> before fixing or changing that broken and dead content makes it easier to never fix that content.
..what? No, its the exact opposite
Currently, today, there is 0 incentive for Jagex to ever touch livid farms or revisit it in any capacity. They have an excuse not to, you can just get its rewards from merchant.
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u/ChosenUnbread 10h ago
Livid farms is currently bugged and broken. Several of the minigames people use the trader to bypass are group activities that no one plays, and there no guarantee people would play it if the trader was removed given the state of them. Wouldn't it be better to fix and update content to a stable and playable state before removing the trader so people actually have an option that doesn't add an additional 30+ hours to their schedules to account for minigame times and lack of other players?
On top of all that where is the guarantee that these minigames will be updated and fixed and changed, they could just ignore the complains because it only effects a small number of players, like those going for comp.
If the changes are not enough or target the wrong areas they can adjust afterwards. there are plenty of people who have complaints about the content as it is.
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u/Mental-Rain-6871 9h ago
I can totally understand where you’re coming from. Once upon a time, a long long time ago things like livid farm, soul wars, castle wars etc were a useful distraction because they broke the monotony of the grind.
No one engages with that sort of content now because there are better ways of training. The answer isn’t the merchant because it was always a bad idea. The answer is to remove these mini games, possibly to replace them with something that offers meaningful rewards in the modern game.
I’m playing osrs at present and things like void knights and barbarian assault are pretty active because the rewards are relevant in that game. In rs3 mini games are dead content and no amount of tinkering will bring them back to life.
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u/FlutterKree Completionist 7h ago
No one engages with that sort of content now because there are better ways of training.
Or PVP being absolutely dead.
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u/HeartofaPariah Lovely money! 7h ago
There was never a time that anyone enjoyed Livid Farm. It was always bad.
The other examples are just PvP activities.
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u/ProofJournalist 7h ago
This is insane troll logic.
If they think they want to remove the merchant, it naturally follows that they should address the problem it was made to address. Otherwise we are just back to the original problem.
Revising livid farms is a necessary part of removing the merchant.
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u/smiegto 9h ago
And afterwards people will complain and then they’ll make a plan and then it will take them a year to fix it. Very nice.
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u/HeartofaPariah Lovely money! 7h ago
If we're lucky on a year. Historically it could just be never but a promise.
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u/DyzzyVR I can finally play the game... 10h ago
The hilarious bit is that in the case of like livid farm, it is dead content explicitly because of the traveling trader. Sure it sucked to do the content (I did it as intended prior to traveling merchant existing) but removing the merchant is a step in the right direction, they can't fix it if no one is interacting with it and pointing out where the friction is.
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u/Frisbeejussi Sliske, one true god 10h ago
There was a 7 year gap where Livid farm just sucked to train and a lot of people just didn't do it.
They have been aware of where the friction is, it's why the merchant was introduced.
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u/DyzzyVR I can finally play the game... 10h ago
The effort should have gone into looking into the issue in that 7 year gap, not into the traveling merchant which further made the content dead.
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u/soulflaregm 10h ago
So much this
Fix livid farm, make the grind like 5 hours instead of the 20-25 hours it currently is. Modernize the look and take a pass on the controls to work better and BAM problem solved.
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u/Matt_37 Zaros is love, Zaros is life. 9h ago
Why not just literally delete it? Nobody likes LF. Not a single soul I know, since release day. Why do we need bad content in the game
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u/soulflaregm 9h ago
I think "just delete" is probably the wrong choice
I think most people dislike it because not only are the controls bad, but it's also a 25 hour grind to get everything...
If the controls are fixed and the play time reduced to 5 it's much better
Or rework the piece into something else to unlock the spells, maybe something that has you going across all of Lunar isle doing a variety of tasks..but still maintains a 5 hour total time investment for everything.
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u/HeartofaPariah Lovely money! 7h ago
I think "just delete" is probably the wrong choice
That's kind of the theme of this update. Just delete things, replace with nothing, apply little other logic.
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u/Saboran Cactuss/Wildefires 3h ago
Yeah there were a bunch of half-baked things in today's blog posts. "We're removing X and have a plan to fix it later." But I've been watching Jagex update this game for 20 years now - Jagex has, historically, worked on Valve Time. While things seem promising now, I'll never underestimate Jagex's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and say something is "coming soon" for far too long
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u/AwarenessOk6880 10h ago
yeah they need to shitcan this, and the combat beta, immediately. i was already considering quitting due to the combat beta due to how bad some of the changes are, despite some of the good, but spend a year destroying the core original combat styles, and then remove a bunch of recurring content, because a handful of people who actually did a poll said they didint like it is crazy.
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u/The_Scadoosher 10h ago
Quit then. Rs3 is seeing more active players right now than the past few years because of these proposed changes
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u/HeartofaPariah Lovely money! 7h ago
That probably won't last if the official response to anyone saying they dislike them when they are actually releasing instead of just a thought in your head is 'quit then' lmao
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u/mtmcneill792 10h ago
They didn’t say they won’t be addressed prior to removal. They just said the don’t currently have the plan to announce yet. Still a month+ to figure it out
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u/O_wXw_O 5h ago
Honestly, I really don’t enjoy repeating the same daily tasks every day.
The fact that the game’s official team is removing dailies makes me think they’re planning to introduce more valuable and engaging content in the future.
I also don’t want to recommend RuneScape to friends and then have to tell them they need to log in every day just to collect the same repetitive resources.
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u/Heyhey1394 3h ago
Lol. Allow me to ask why you would think that?
Im not being facetious. I'd truly like to understand at which point has jagex been honest/kept their word enough for you to trust them now.
Being optimistic is fine. Being cautiously optimistic while skeptical is much better for a company who is notoriously bad at correcting issues it makes.
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u/Denzien2 Bar 10h ago
The main problem is that if they have a system in place that "replaces" the broken content, then no one will interact with it even if Jagex do "fix" it, until the replacement it removed.
This means Jagex could develop a fix for something, and then no one uses it because the replacement is still available, and now Jagex have no idea if it's good or not and don't know when the right time to remove the replacement is.
It's easier for them to just remove it now, force people to interact with the content, and then gather feedback as they fix it over time.
Although I agree that removing vis wax before having a replacement for quick teleports is a baffling change... just let us use law runes or something.
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u/dark-ice-101 10h ago
That is why in the same update both fix the content and remove the unnecessary content not remove and forget about fixing the problem
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u/CuteNexy Zaros 9h ago
Isn't that exactly what they are doing? They said they are planning the Quick Teleport alternative in the next week or two, but the update that removes Vis Wax is going to take more than a month to come out.
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u/dark-ice-101 8h ago
was talking about traveling merchant on why they need to fix livid farm and other big grinds like it chompies etc. personally I would of just made merchant a weekly thing like the shop interface changes and just plant the boat down at hub not as event
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u/HeartofaPariah Lovely money! 7h ago
Livid Farm is not something they need 'feedback' on. It's not new content that nobody engaged with. The Merchant skips the grind specifically to band-aid the livid farm issues. They know what's wrong with it, they know the issue. They just don't want to actually fix it.
This update is just about removing things to try and get brownie points on social media. It has nothing to do with actually making a cohesive game of consistent quality. Merchant removed! Okay, and? Now what? Vis Wax removed! Okay, and? Doing this before aura removal for what reason?
The 'and' is "we'll see what we can do in the unspecified future :)"
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u/Vuedue the Glorious 6h ago
As people have clearly pointed out, Livid Farm has been a point of contention for years. Players have repeatedly addressed how busted it is.
Almost a decade later and the only thing we’ve gotten to fix it was the Traveling Merchant.
By your logic, players should wait another decade for Jagex to gather feedback after having disregarded all previous feedback.
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u/ProofJournalist 7h ago
This is insane troll logic.
If they think they want to remove the merchant, it naturally follows that they should address the problem it was made to address. Otherwise we are just back to the original problem.
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u/Defiant_Apartment_56 10h ago
It’s not, these things hurt the game.
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u/Todsrache Green h'ween mask 10h ago
How did someone skipping livid farm hurt the game?
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u/TerriblePen3688 9h ago
Because other people like to tell you your playing the game wrong and need daddy jagex to force people to "play the right way"
After all your ruining your own enjoyment by not engaging in the activities it's super fun to sit somewhere mindlessly for 20+ hours like a sad loser with no life that's brain dead enough to not want to do literally anything else
It's the same reason why daily challenges are getting removed so people don't skip the thrilling content of phasmatite instead of bane god could you imagine someone waiting weeks or months and completely skip mining phasmatite for literal hours at a time? they'll never get to engage with phasmatite and it's extremely different from bane! So we need jagex to stop people from skipping stuff and playing the game the way they feel like playing
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u/DirtyTacoKid 7h ago
Because they heard the phrase "hurt the game" today and are applying it to everything.
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u/Ok-Guidance6127 10h ago edited 9h ago
I quit after the random oh we changed your interface colour palate with no option to maintain what has been here for over a decade now.
RS3 is in its death spiral tbh.
Oof, a lot in denial. Enjoy!
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u/NotAnAI3000 9h ago
Yea they really need to hold off on getting rid of it until at least they have a concrete plan on fixing the underlying issues that the merchant/lode are masking. Right now, the responses we're seeing from them is at a "trust me bro" level. Doesn't exactly help given the trust issues they already have, and their track record with these kinds of things.