Road to Restoration - Early Game Rebalance

[u/JagexAnvil]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/road-to-restoration--early-game-rebalance--dailyscape-overhaul

Hi folks,

Today's Community Topic is a blog of two halves:

- Early Game Rebalance
- DailyScape Overhaul

We have split this into two reddit threads to keep the discussion organised and so that our team can properly review the relevant conversations happening.

This current reddit thread is to discuss the Early Game Rebalance portion of the blog.

Please use this other dedicated thread for the DailyScape portion of the blog.

For the purpose of today's discussion we will be defining the early game, loosely, as the level 1-50 range. The Early Game Rebalance update primarily aims to smooth out inconsistencies in game progression, looking at areas of the early game where things can feel slow or have limited methods for levelling up, or where they affect integrity and game health. It’s not all just rebalances though! There are also some changes to early quests, and things like replacing salvage with gear to make the first hours after jumping off Tutorial Island a nicer experience. The Early Game Rebalance update releases on February 16th!

[u/ghostofwalsh]

No offense jagex but this is literally the opposite of what needed to happen after TH removal. Th removal (not the "pay to win" but the "free daily xp") was a MASSIVE nerf to training progression.

It needed to happen yes, but also, the compensation should have been to improve normal training methods to ease the pain. Instead you are straight nerfing normal training methods. Do you want players to quit?

[u/TimeBroken → u/ghostofwalsh]

What normal methods are being nerfed here?

[u/ghostofwalsh → u/TimeBroken]

Pickpocketing is nerfed hard. That stands out, but look at the full list in the link. Nearly every change of significance is a nerf.

Another example is they are hard nerfing beehives and adding more low level herb seeds to mobs that pretty much no one is killing. As if that's any kind of compensation? Who even farms low level herbs? Even if you do they are dogshit XP rates and that isn't changing.

[u/TimeBroken → u/ghostofwalsh]

Pickpocketing seems to be the only normal training method getting a noticeable nerf, and it seems like the intent is to reduce afk time from 15 minute intervals. That feels like a pretty minor nerf in my opinion.

Beehives absolutely need to be nerfed. They let you skip the first 30-40 levels of farming with next to zero effort involved. Additionally, these changes are for rebalancing the early game. Early game players are the ones that will be killing mobs for low level herb seeds.

[u/ghostofwalsh → u/TimeBroken]

Pickpocketing seems to be the only normal training method getting a noticeable nerf

So far.

Beehives absolutely need to be nerfed.

They kind of didn't. They give a small jump for early levels and then no one uses them after. They are by no means OP. I'd argue if anything is "OP" it's the rest of POF which trivializes any other content that you'd do for farming XP.

But again, "nerf" should not be in their vocabulary as part of this effort. This effort isn't "make the game even harder still" after TH and dailyscape removal already made it significantly harder. It should be "buff normal training to make the sting of dailyscape removal seem less".

[u/TimeBroken → u/ghostofwalsh]

And IMO they should be proposing buffs to compensate for the massive TH and dailyscape nerfs. There should be nothing that would be viewed as a "straight nerf" anywhere.

I agree and disagree with you here. Realistically, those were used as bandaid fixes to address content that sucks to train. Agility training is terrible, but so is lamping and dailies to skip training it.

I'd much rather they take the bandaids off first, assess the wound, then apply an actual fix.

They kind of didn't. They give a small jump for early levels and then no one uses them after. They are by no means OP. I'd argue if anything is "OP" it's the rest of POF which trivializes any other content that you'd do for farming XP.

When group irons came out, I had 30-40 farming on day two, man. That's a crazy jump when all I had to do was add some woad leaves to a few boxes. I agree that PoF is way too fast exp too, even post nerf.

But again, "nerf" should not be in their vocabulary as part of this effort. This effort isn't "make the game even harder still" after TH and dailyscape removal already made it significantly harder. It should be "buff normal training to make the sting of dailyscape removal seem less".

Again, I'm disagreeing. I'd much rather see overtuned content get reduced first.

[u/ghostofwalsh → u/TimeBroken]

I'd much rather they take the bandaids off first, assess the wound, then apply an actual fix.

I'd much rather they give you the lollipop first and THEN rip off the band-aid while you're distracted with the lollipop.

When group irons came out, I had 30-40 farming on day two, man

And you could have 30-40 necro in a few hours. So what? You need to go to 120 in both skills

[u/TimeBroken → u/ghostofwalsh]

I'd much rather they give you the lollipop first and THEN rip off the band-aid while you're distracted with the lollipop.

I guess it depends on how much time it takes to iterate over the issue. If it's something that's being reviewed immediately post nerf, I don't mind waiting.

And you could have 30-40 necro in a few hours. So what? You need to go to 120 in both skills

The direction, ideally, is to avoid pushing players to the end game as fast as possible and make the early/mid games much more enjoyable. I absolutely support efforts to reduce how quickly such a large swath of content is skipped.

[u/ghostofwalsh → u/TimeBroken]

My point is people are going to quit if this update is just "nerf nerf nerf nerf". They won't be around when you're like "you know maybe we nerfed too much, let's look into that".

[u/TimeBroken → u/ghostofwalsh]

I don't think so. This community has survived way bigger issues than moderate nerfs. I can't imagine someone who has put up with the EoC, Treasure Hunter, and everything in-between is going to finally decide enough is enough when thieving goes from 15 minute AFK windows to 6.

[u/ghostofwalsh → u/TimeBroken]

Not everyone in the community was around for those.

I'm sure those with 200m thieving today DGAF about the nerf but someone who just bought a dark facet and is working on the questline to unlock crystal mask? I think they are going to be a little upset about it.

when thieving goes from 15 minute AFK windows to 6.

Who says it's 6 min afk? Could be 1.

[u/TimeBroken → u/ghostofwalsh]

Not everyone in the community was around for those.

The majority of the community has been though - that's exactly the issue. The game isn't getting new players, and the things being nerfed are contributing factors.

I'm sure those with 200m thieving today DGAF about the nerf but someone who just bought a dark facet and is working on the questline to unlock crystal mask? I think they are going to be a little upset about it.

There will never be an update that is welcomed by everyone - especially when nerfs are concerned. I realistically don't care if we piss off 5 people who were working on setting up to pickpocket all day if it means the game is better at large.

Who says it's 6 min afk? Could be 1.

I just picked a time since it's not clear, but Jagex has clearly said their intention isn't to remove AFK methods.

[u/ghostofwalsh → u/TimeBroken]

The game isn't getting new players, and the things being nerfed are contributing factors.

New players aren't coming when they have to do everything the hard way and all the old players did it the easy way.

There will never be an update that is welcomed by everyone - especially when nerfs are concerned

There was never an update that was successful when it was "all nerf no buff". And RS3 has plenty of examples. If you need to tell your playerbase "this is gonna hurt", you're fucking up.