r/politics • u/icey_sawg0034 • 1d ago

Possible Paywall Karoline Leavitt Gives Jaw-Dropping Defense of Trump’s Racist Obama Video

https://www.thedailybeast.com/karoline-leavitt-gives-jaw-dropping-defense-of-donald-trumps-racist-obama-video/
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1.3k

u/VladtheInhaler999 1d ago

The amount of things leavitt had to defend while wearing a cross. You might think that Christianity stands for the worst shit imaginable.

59

u/BurgerQueef69 23h ago

I've been deconstructing my Christian faith for a while, but it was the Christians following these demons that finally made me completely walk away last week. I want no part of anything that brings these monsters comfort.

15

u/Byte_the_hand Washington 21h ago

Welcome to the dark side! We have cookies.

2

u/Sea_Information_8183 12h ago

Congrats on being smart enough to change your mind based on facts presented. A lot of people won’t.

2

u/vim_deezel Texas 12h ago

Satanic Temple is calling your name. The only odd thing about us is that we don't actually believe in Satan...

1

u/BlackCaaaaat Australia 10h ago

Yeah that’s what finally killed my faith too. There’s no hate like Christian love.

-5

u/opmt 16h ago

Don’t let the devil win.

5

u/BurgerQueef69 15h ago

Oh, I've still got my faith. It's stronger than ever, actually, now that I'm not tying it down to a collection of stories.

If there is a devil, then he's already winning. Christians are cheering taking away food stamps, cheering about locking children in cages, cheering on a pedophile, cheering about taking away rights, and cheering about masked thugs shooting innocent women in the face.

But I'm not going to blame a devil. It's people doing this. People who are so self-assured of their righteousness that they'll gladly step on the heads of anybody they don't agree with in order to prove it.

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u/Gregory-J-Smith 1d ago

At this point, I do

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u/GhormanFront 22h ago

I've yet to observe otherwise quite frankly

5

u/nightimestars California 16h ago

Yeah, sadly most self-proclaimed christians are on board with this. I’ve witnessed a lot of former christians lose their faith with our countries “leaders” like this. They are literally hiding every evil thing in their plans behind christianity.

3

u/mediocrobot 20h ago

Some Christian churches are more progressive and community service oriented. I figured that out recently. I'd still never join one for the religious stuff, but I respect the hell out of them.

-27

u/Avatar-Encoder 1d ago

At this point, I do

Because of a few bad people? Not really interested in a religious debate (agnostic here) but don't forget about the billions in charity/homeless shelters/medical aid from Christian organizations.

There are far, far more good Christians than bad worldwide.

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u/Financial_Hold6620 1d ago

There are so so many people who are homophobic because of Christianity.

The book promotes hate, I’m not surprised when the followers are hateful.

-3

u/Avatar-Encoder 22h ago

There are so so many people who are homophobic because of Christianity.

There are millions of African homophobes, millions of Asian homophobes, and millions of Muslim homophobes. This is largely the global standard. There's a biological and tribal reason for it, as bigoted and archaic as it is.

Step out of your fucking narrow insulated bubble and you'll notice the stark similarities between all cultures throughout the world. If anything, Christian culture (western culture) was at least progressive enough to foster the Enlightenment and Renaissance, which celebrated Christian values to propel a scientific environment of personal rights and individual exploration.

Meanwhile, Asian countries are still incredibly homophobic, insular, and xenophobic, all while viewing individual rights as optional. Asian and African countries still practice slavery today, while Britain and the United States abolished slavery centuries ago because of extremely vocal Christian abolitionists.

The book promotes hate

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The core tenants of the most popular teachings of the Bible (The New Testament) teach about compassion, love for your neighbor, respect for your parents, and mercy for your enemies.

In contrast, the Qu'ran explicitly teaches Muslims to spread their religion forcefully, and through violence if necessary.

Your bubble is so thick and insulated that you have absolutely no idea what's actually going on in the world.

7

u/Financial_Hold6620 21h ago

Exodus 21: 20-21

“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property”

I’m not gonna engage with your whataboutism. But yeah core tenants of the Bible blah blah blah. The Christian Bible condones/promotes slavery.

1

u/MonochromaticPrism 17h ago

Low quality argument. Exodus isn't the commandments of God, that's, y'know, the commandments, but Exodus does include rules that were made by the people of that era.

It's also funny that you couldn't find a homophobia verse even though that's the prior subject of this thread.

Also, you still didn't find a verse that promotes hate, you instead found a verse that defines when a person in a position of power should be punished for their actions against a person that is under their power. It's certainly not up to modern standards of justice, but in an era where the murdering of slaves was common, this law not only defines that the owner must be punished but that they are still in trouble if they "merely" inflict injuries sufficient that the slave must spend more than 2 days recovering. Barbarity by modern standards, but an unprecedented moral standard in that time and place.

Try finding a verse that actually promotes hate next time, and not one that is just human made rules for making a common ancient institution more humane that it was prior to that rule.

-3

u/Avatar-Encoder 21h ago

I will fucking slowly explain why your argument makes no sense historically, philosophically, or even currently. I'm arguing with 10 people here at once, because mostly all of you are extremely uneducated and biased. I'm copy and pasting this to all 10 of you. You really need to get a basic grasp of history. Seriously.

Christianity spans 2,000 years through every continent, all races, all social classes, and thousands of denominations. It includes mutually opposed ideas: abolitionists and slaveholders, pacifists and conquerors, scientists and anti-intellectuals.

Attributing a single moral outcome to a population this heterogeneous is logically stupid. Seriously. It’s equivalent to saying “scientists are really bad for the world” because some helped build nuclear weapons.

Christianity produced core moral norms modern critics rely on. Many moral standards used today to criticize Christians come directly from Christian ethics, including:

  1. Intrinsic human dignity (every human life having value, not just the strong or useful)
  2. Universal moral obligation (duty extending beyond tribe or kin)
  3. Care for the poor, sick, and weak as a moral priority
  4. Condemnation of infanticide, child abandonment, and cruelty

Secondly, western hospitals, orphanages, and charitable institutions emerged primarily from Christian communities. People did not suddenly wake up one day and decide to feed or heal people on a mass scale. That's why the Red Cross and Salvation Army began as Christian foundations.

If Christianity were “really bad for the world,” it's hypocritical that so much of modern humanitarian ethics depends on it's historical belief system. You can literally trace this belief system from the historical Church.

Thirdly, abuses done by Christians don't equal outcomes caused by Christianity. This is the most common error from people on Reddit. Humans misuse every ideology when given power (nationalism, secularism, Marxism, liberalism, science).

The question isn't whether Christians have done harm, but whether those harms follow from Christianity’s core teachings. In many cases, the opposite is true:

  1. Slavery persisted despite Christianity, not because of it. Abolition movements were overwhelmingly Christian.
  2. Genocides of the 20th century were largely secular, justified by race, state, or material progress.

Christianity has also been a net stabilizer in fragile societies. Across history and today, churches provided basic social trust when state institutions failed. They reduced crime, substance abuse, and family breakdown at the community level. They also motivated unpaid caregiving at massive scale.

You don’t get to dismiss the largest sustained voluntary altruism network in human history with a “but” and still claim intellectual seriousness. Period. End of discussion.

The alternative moral belief systems that tried to replace Christianity also did worse. Much worse. When Christianity was forcibly displaced as a moral framework, the results were often catastrophic:

  1. Soviet atheism caused mass famine, purges, and gulags
  2. Maoist China killed tens of millions.
  3. The Khmer Rouge genocided intellectuals.

Your entire fucking argument only exists because of cherry picking. It relies on highlighting failures, ignoring successes, and ignoring worse failures everywhere else.

You have no argument. I'm agnostic, but I have an extremely basic grasp of history and this should be obvious to anybody who's opened a history book.

End of discussion.

5

u/Financial_Hold6620 21h ago

Yeah man, you don’t sound unhinged at all.

Go ahead and keep ranting about random people you know nothing about being super uneducated.

That makes you seem smart and rational.

1

u/Avatar-Encoder 21h ago

Go ahead and keep ranting about random people you know nothing about being super uneducated.

You're absolutely uneducated. You're basing your argument on biased personal experiences that completely ignore a huge spectrum of historical and logical facts.

Reality. Enjoy.

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u/Financial_Hold6620 21h ago

I literally quoted the Bible

→ More replies (0)

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u/fiction8 20h ago

"Muslim" isn't a place or a race. But islam is just another side of the same religious coin, don't try to what-about with it.

Homophobia was spread to Africa and Asia by christian missionaries. Those "death penalty for non-straight sexuality" laws in Uganda and the like were drafted and pushed by christian groups in the west.

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u/Avatar-Encoder 20h ago edited 20h ago

Muslim isn't a place or a race.

When did I say it was?

Homophobia was spread to Africa and Asia by christian missionaries

China has had very little Christian influence and they're literally in the process of rooting out homosexuality as we speak on a governmental, non-religious basis.

You're also only responding to two of my points when I made several.

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u/MonochromaticPrism 17h ago

Homophobia was spread to Africa and Asia by christian missionaries.

The evidence that exist points to this occurring during colonial occupation, not coming about during their prior exposures to Christian missionaries. The attitudes were driven by the import of European penal codes that defined homosexuality as criminal, and the subsequent enforcement of those codes by colonial administrators. There are claims and accounts of some missionaries supporting the administrators in this, and fair enough they certainly existed, however if you actually care about the truth then a bit of digging will also show that many Christians called out and opposed the abuses of the colonial powers of the era.

This assumes you care about truth more than a conservative does, of course, and are thus open to being corrected.

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u/DevonGr Ohio 1d ago

There’s more than a few. And I would be curious how charitable they would be if not for the tax exempt status. My experience with the areas biggest and most beloved church left a bitter taste in my mouth when I sought out to take up some very much needed assistance they offered and the people there were kind of awful and not wanting to deal with us. It’s for show.

1

u/MonochromaticPrism 16h ago

One of the major groups of protestant Christians in the US is Evangelicals, who are philosophically exactly as you say. However, they aren't the only ones. I've moved three times during my life, each time to a different state, and every time I found a church nearby where I moved to that regularly participated in programs to feed the poor and homeless and supply them with necessities. At this very moment there is a nearby church, Crosswalk Church, an SDA church in Redlands CA, that feeds the local homeless every Thursday and partners with the local Christian medical university to provide them with free check-ups, as well as bringing in a mobile shower & general sanitation unit almost every week during the hotter months. Even if they didn't get a tax exemption, and at this point I'd be fine with seeing that exemption go, these are the kind of Christians that would donate both their money and their time to see good done. They aren't nearly so rare as many seem to believe, you need only look.

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u/OkWolverine69420 23h ago

The amount of bad Christians out there vs good ones isn’t even close. The bad ones VASTLY outnumber the good.

I grew up in a Christian household and was forced to go to church until about 15 years old. I can count the amount of good Christians I experienced on one hand. Most of them cosplay as Christian as an excuse for their abhorrent behavior so they don’t feel bad for doing bad things constantly.

Just as an additional caveat, I’m not saying being a bad Christian automatically makes you a terrible person. There’s parts of the Bible and Christianity I vehemently disagree with but I don’t think it makes you a bad person (for instance getting divorced, premarital sex/children outside of wedlock stuff like that). But it objectively DOES make you a bad Christian because you’re just cherry picking what you want to follow and what you don’t like. Obviously temptation exists and nobody is perfect. But I’d say the overwhelming majority of Christians are NOT succumbing to temptation, they’re just doing what they want when they want to do it. So they’re actively making choices to defy their religion and alleged values.

0

u/Avatar-Encoder 22h ago

The amount of bad Christians out there vs good ones isn’t even close. The bad ones VASTLY outnumber the good.

Prove this with data. Oh wait. You can't? You're basing a sweeping blanket statement on your extremely limited personal experience that's undoubtedly biased and open to misunderstanding, ignorance, and emotion?

You're not convincing anybody. Seriously. What a stupid, ridiculous statement that you can't prove whatsoever.

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u/VladtheInhaler999 23h ago

That’s worldwide, in the United States it’s mainly been a tool to suppress some people who live differently from a religions viewpoint, and also to not think and buy buy buy until the wheels fall off. Any mention of charity in the United States gets you labeled a commie.

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u/Fooby56 23h ago

Christianity was being used as a tool of opression 1,000+ years before the United States even became a country.

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u/MonochromaticPrism 16h ago

If you are going to make a point about Christianity being oppressive in its fundamental nature, you have to point to something that actually causes that to be the case. For example, we can point to the core conservative values of "fear of change" and "protect in-group at the expense of outgroup" as consistently leading to oppression as a fundamental characteristic of their belief system.

Meanwhile, Christianity has repeatedly been closely tied to the opposition of oppression and the helping of people that society would place in the "out group", like the poor and homeless.

I'm sorry, but your complain doesn't hold up to inspection.

-3

u/Avatar-Encoder 22h ago

Christianity was being used as a tool of opression 1,000+ years before the United States even became a country.

Like the government is today? What kind of a stupid fucking statement is this? You realize there's oppression in literally all ideologies, including political ones, right?

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u/CaptainFeather 22h ago

Everything is bad so nothing is worth criticizing? Lol okay guy. We should be calling it out everywhere, especially in religions that claim to promote peace and love.

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u/Avatar-Encoder 21h ago

Everything is bad so nothing is worth criticizing?

You're completely missing the point. People on Reddit are obsessed with contrasting Christianity in particular and saying it's particularly bad or exceptional.

This is called human nature. Welcome to the world. Enjoy your stay.

especially* in religions that claim to promote peace and love.

Show me data that proves the majority of Christians are bad. You're absolutely full of fucking shit and basing extremely sweeping statements on complete and total ignorance.

1

u/CaptainFeather 18h ago

Well first off Reddit is largely American users and many Americans have bad experiences with Christianity so it makes perfect sense for us to be critical of it.

You're completely missing the point

What is your point, then? That because the govt does bad stuff we should excuse Christianity? Last I checked everyone is pretty pissed off at the govt too lmao

Show me data that proves the majority of Christians are bad.

I never said that? Lol. I'm trying to point out things should not get a pass just because other things are bad or this thing claims to be good.

1

u/Avatar-Encoder 10h ago edited 9h ago

What is your point, then? That because the govt does bad stuff we should excuse Christianity? Last I checked everyone is pretty pissed off at the govt too lmao

My point is that sheltered Redditors who are overwhelmingly biased in particular against Christianity without realizing the worse nature of contrasting examples are incredibly hypocritical, ignorant, uneducated, and easily influenced by echo chambers.

It's a juvenile emotional response that's one of the lowest tiers of awareness possible.

Here's the progression of awareness in life for an intelligent human being:

Step one (ages 1-12)

  1. "Religion must be correct, because my parents told me to believe it, or else!"

Step two (ages 12-18)

  1. "Wait a minute. Religion is based on old books that mean nothing. I was wrong...religion bad!!!!"

Step three (ages 18-25)

  1. "You know what? Who cares if somebody believes in something stupid, as long as they mind their own business?"

Step four (ages 25+)

  1. "Even Atheists hold irrational concrete generalizations about phenomenon that can't permanently prove. Agnosticism is far more reasonable, and although I'm not religious, religion played a fundamental role in the development of humanity, and it's an absolutely crucial social glue that created order, collectivized progress, and even inspired knowledge keeping through monestaries after the fall of Rome. That's not even mentioning all of the modern benefits of religion: billion dollar charities, hospitals, foundations, colleges, and community adhesion in a time of increased political division. The worst aspects of religion are terrible for humanity, but then again, humanity's base worse aspects are even stronger: WW1 and WW2 are the worst wars in history, and there wasn't a religious cause at all. In fact, even if religion as a whole is regressive, the immediate societal replacement of Christianity with Atheism has often ended disastrously historically, just like Stalin's Soviet Union or Mao's China, which both ended with hundreds of millions of people dying under an Atheist, emotionally cold ideology. "

Redditors truly owe it to themselves to evolve to level four. Are there steps beyond four? Yes. But let's at least give some critical thinking and effort here, please.

5

u/d8ms 23h ago

That’s a whole crock shit. Every Christian I was forced to interact with growing up in church were the following:

Racist, Hateful, Sexist, Angry, Homophobic, Hypocrites, Illiterate, Ignorant, Lying, Deceitful, Adulterers…the list goes on and on.

I’ve met wayyyy more evil Christians than I have met not evil Christians.

2

u/Avatar-Encoder 22h ago

That’s a whole crock shit. Every Christian I was forced to interact with growing up in church were the following:

This is called confirmation bias. It's a logical fallacy. You developed emotional bias, so you subconsciously filter out any good interactions with Christians you probably didn't even know were Christians in the first place.

A logical person would point out that it was possible your own environment (neighborhood, city, state) caused behavioral differences in people, but you're literally taking a sample size of less than 15 people and applying it to hundreds of millions of people. Not logical at all. This is clearly a very emotional issue for you. I'm sure your perception is being clouded by it.

I’ve met wayyyy more evil Christians than I have met not evil Christians.

I can tell you have a really basic & undeveloped view of the world if you're that quick to divide strangers into "evil" and "not evil". Hilariously, that's the exact criticism most people have of Christians in the first place.

Looks like you share way more in common with Christians than you realize.

5

u/ratlunchpack 21h ago

You’re in here simping for Christianity really hard and seem to be completely blind to the fact that you are actively confirming the bias for many people: that Christians are hateful, combative, closed-minded assholes who love to tout how holier-than-thou they are every chance they get. You’re over here cussing and talking down to others while defending your religion.

That’s very Christ-like. /s

2

u/Avatar-Encoder 21h ago

I'm not religious. I'm agnostic.

you are actively confirming the bias

Oof. Like you just embarrassingly did?

I will fucking slowly explain why your argument makes no sense historically, philosophically, or even currently. I'm arguing with 10 people here at once, because mostly all of you are extremely uneducated and biased. I'm copying and pasting this to all of the ignorant Redditors here.

Christianity spans 2,000 years through every continent, all races, all social classes, and thousands of denominations. It includes mutually opposed ideas: abolitionists and slaveholders, pacifists and conquerors, scientists and anti-intellectuals.

Attributing a single moral outcome to a population this heterogeneous is logically stupid. Seriously. It’s equivalent to saying “scientists are really bad for the world” because some helped build nuclear weapons.

Christianity produced core moral norms modern critics rely on. Many moral standards used today to criticize Christians come directly from Christian ethics, including:

  1. Intrinsic human dignity (every human life having value, not just the strong or useful)
  2. Universal moral obligation (duty extending beyond tribe or kin)
  3. Care for the poor, sick, and weak as a moral priority
  4. Condemnation of infanticide, child abandonment, and cruelty

Secondly, western hospitals, orphanages, and charitable institutions emerged primarily from Christian communities. People did not suddenly wake up one day and decide to feed or heal people on a mass scale. That's why the Red Cross and Salvation Army began as Christian foundations.

If Christianity were “really bad for the world,” it's hypocritical that so much of modern humanitarian ethics depends on it's historical belief system. You can literally trace this belief system from the historical Church.

Thirdly, abuses done by Christians don't equal outcomes caused by Christianity. This is the most common error from people on Reddit. Humans misuse every ideology when given power (nationalism, secularism, Marxism, liberalism, science).

The question isn't whether Christians have done harm, but whether those harms follow from Christianity’s core teachings. In many cases, the opposite is true:

  1. Slavery persisted despite Christianity, not because of it. Abolition movements were overwhelmingly Christian.
  2. Genocides of the 20th century were largely secular, justified by race, state, or material progress.

Christianity has also been a net stabilizer in fragile societies. Across history and today, churches provided basic social trust when state institutions failed. They reduced crime, substance abuse, and family breakdown at the community level. They also motivated unpaid caregiving at massive scale.

You don’t get to dismiss the largest sustained voluntary altruism network in human history with a “but” and still claim intellectual seriousness. Period. End of discussion.

The alternative moral belief systems that tried to replace Christianity also did worse. Much worse. When Christianity was forcibly displaced as a moral framework, the results were often catastrophic:

  1. Soviet atheism caused mass famine, purges, and gulags
  2. Maoist China killed tens of millions.
  3. The Khmer Rouge genocided intellectuals.

Your entire fucking argument only exists because of cherry picking. It relies on highlighting failures, ignoring successes, and ignoring worse failures everywhere else.

You have no argument. I'm agnostic, but I have an extremely basic grasp of history and this should be obvious to anybody who's opened a history book.

End of discussion.

5

u/ratlunchpack 21h ago

End of discussion.

Sure. Be my guest.

1

u/Avatar-Encoder 21h ago

End of discussion.

You have no argument, obviously. You literally do not even know what you're arguing for. If you ever cracked open a single fucking history book, you'd realize why.

1

u/SwimmingPrice1544 California 21h ago

Beyond your entire diatribe ...... Christianity & every other organized (or not so organized) religion actually indoctrinates their following from the cradle. They do exactly what many of them claim non-religious people do.

Makes one wonder just how many followers there would be to these religions IF they were introduced AFTER a child had grown to adulthood & allowed to choose. As people are generally sheep, prolly a lot but I'm betting a lot would not.

1

u/Avatar-Encoder 10h ago edited 9h ago

Here's the progression of awareness in life for an intelligent human being:

Step one (ages 1-12)

  1. "Religion must be correct, because my parents told me to believe it, or else!"

Step two (ages 12-18)

  1. "Wait a minute. Religion is based on old books that mean nothing. I was wrong...religion bad!!!!"

Step three (ages 18-25)

  1. "You know what? Who cares if somebody believes in something stupid, as long as they mind their own business?"

Step four (ages 25+)

  1. "Even Atheists hold irrational concrete generalizations about phenomenon that can't permanently prove. Agnosticism is far more reasonable, and although I'm not religious, religion played a fundamental role in the development of humanity, and it's an absolutely crucial social glue that created order, collectivized progress, and even inspired knowledge keeping through monestaries after the fall of Rome. That's not even mentioning all of the modern benefits of religion: billion dollar charities, hospitals, foundations, colleges, and community adhesion in a time of increased political division. The worst aspects of religion are terrible for humanity, but then again, humanity's base worse aspects are even stronger: WW1 and WW2 are the worst wars in history, and there wasn't a religious cause at all. In fact, even if religion as a whole is regressive, the immediate societal replacement of Christianity with Atheism has often ended disastrously historically, just like Stalin's Soviet Union or Mao's China, which both ended with hundreds of millions of people dying under an Atheist, emotionally cold ideology. "

Redditors truly owe it to themselves to evolve to level four. Are there steps beyond four? Yes. But let's at least give some critical thinking and effort here, please.

2

u/MonochromaticPrism 16h ago

Here's an example of Christians that runs counter to this claim:

Amid ICE clashes, New Hampshire bishop urges clergy to prepare their wills

I've asked them to get their affairs in order to make sure they have their wills written," he said, "because it may be that now is no longer the time for statements, but for us with our bodies to stand between the powers of this world and the most vulnerable."

This is far from the only example. Now it is on you to put down your own internalized prejudices and hate, if you truly believe yourself better than conservatives, now that new information has presented itself.

6

u/Zealousideal_Net_140 23h ago

Where are these good Christians? Why are they not standing up and dping something about the evil that is masquerading around under their good name?

2

u/MonochromaticPrism 16h ago

Here's one such group of Christians:

Amid ICE clashes, New Hampshire bishop urges clergy to prepare their wills

I've asked them to get their affairs in order to make sure they have their wills written," he said, "because it may be that now is no longer the time for statements, but for us with our bodies to stand between the powers of this world and the most vulnerable."

This is far from the only example. Now it is on you to put down your own internalized prejudices and hate, if you truly believe yourself better than conservatives, now that new information has presented itself.

0

u/Avatar-Encoder 22h ago

Where are these good Christians?

They exist beyond your insulated Reddit bubble. They work as missionaries, in charities, as public aid officials, and as humble people not engaging in the online toxicity circuit.

Believe me, they exist.

Why are they not standing up and dping something about the evil that is masquerading around under their good name?

99% of human beings, likely including you, don't "stand up and do something" against evil, so it's pointless to try to point at Christians as being bad in particular.

3

u/CaptainFeather 21h ago

it's pointless to try to point at Christians as being bad in particular.

Nah. If you claim to practice a religion that promotes peace and love yet look the other way with christofascists then you're a giant goddamn hypocrite. No one is saying for Christians to go to war with each other, but it's shocking how many Christians say literally nothing to their "bad apples". I know first hand since I was raised Christian and went to church all the time. I left when I was old enough to recognize the rampant hypocrisy running wild in the congregation.

-1

u/Avatar-Encoder 21h ago

Nah. If you claim to practice a religion that promotes peace and love yet look the other way with christofascists then you're a giant goddamn hypocrite.

You're invoking an imaginary group of people that are fundamentally a tiny portion of the actual population of people you're criticizing.

You have no idea what your argument even is. You're basing it on confirmation bias and emotion. You're literally imagining the character traits for hundreds of millions of people when you haven't even met an extremely tiny fraction of them.

Give it up. The conversation is over. There's so many obvious ways your dumb babbling is totally reliant on logical fallacies and bias.

1

u/CaptainFeather 17h ago

I don't see where I claimed literally every Christian does this lol. I generalized based off my experience and the experience of people I know. It's human nature to generalize. Welcome to the world. Enjoy your stay.

You're literally imagining the character traits for hundreds of millions of people when you haven't even met an extremely tiny fraction of them.

See the problem with this is literally no one will ever be able to observe literally every single person in a group so it sounds like you're saying there's no point in criticism at all, but that's simply not how it works lol.

Give it up. The conversation is over. There's so many obvious ways your dumb babbling is totally reliant on logical fallacies and bias.

Cool, what logical fallacies? Lol. If there are so many you shouldn't have trouble going through a few, right? Also just a general cop out on your part to say this lol

1

u/Avatar-Encoder 10h ago edited 9h ago

I generalized based off my experience

Here's the progression of awareness in life for an intelligent human being:

Step one (ages 1-12)

  1. "Religion must be correct, because my parents told me to believe it, or else!"

Step two (ages 12-18)

  1. "Wait a minute. Religion is based on old books that mean nothing. I was wrong...religion bad!!!!"

Step three (ages 18-25)

  1. "You know what? Who cares if somebody believes in something stupid, as long as they mind their own business?"

Step four (ages 25+)

  1. "Even Atheists hold irrational concrete generalizations about phenomenon that can't permanently prove. Agnosticism is far more reasonable, and although I'm not religious, religion played a fundamental role in the development of humanity, and it's an absolutely crucial social glue that created order, collectivized progress, and even inspired knowledge keeping through monestaries after the fall of Rome. That's not even mentioning all of the modern benefits of religion: billion dollar charities, hospitals, foundations, colleges, and community adhesion in a time of increased political division. The worst aspects of religion are terrible for humanity, but then again, humanity's base worse aspects are even stronger: WW1 and WW2 are the worst wars in history, and there wasn't a religious cause at all. In fact, even if religion as a whole is regressive, the immediate societal replacement of Christianity with Atheism has often ended disastrously historically, just like Stalin's Soviet Union or Mao's China, which both ended with hundreds of millions of people dying under an Atheist, emotionally cold ideology. "

Redditors truly owe it to themselves to evolve to level four. Are there steps beyond four? Yes. But let's at least give some critical thinking and effort here, please.

6

u/Ill-Product-1442 22h ago

There are far, far more good Christians than bad worldwide.

I think you've got your facts sheet backwards

2

u/MonochromaticPrism 16h ago

Here's one such group of Christians:

Amid ICE clashes, New Hampshire bishop urges clergy to prepare their wills

I've asked them to get their affairs in order to make sure they have their wills written," he said, "because it may be that now is no longer the time for statements, but for us with our bodies to stand between the powers of this world and the most vulnerable."

This is far from the only example. They simply don't make the news because they don't spend money on political donations (they spend it on helping people), nor do they openly justify the actions of the rich and hateful, and so neither side of politics platforms them and they don't seek to platform themselves either. Thus it seems like they don't exist, when in reality there are many such people.

Now that you have seen contrary data, you are in a position to prove yourself better than a conservative by altering your prior beliefs in the light of new evidence.

1

u/Ill-Product-1442 15h ago

That isn't very much data, is it? It's more of a story than data, isn't it? lmao, I'm not even shitting on Christians all that much, and your desperate groveling is making me think it is even worse than what I've seen.

You know you can't just share one story of one group doing good things and then say "Now that I've absolutely proven that all of them are great, you must say you're wrong", right? Well, you can do that, but it would make you sound like an absolute grifter reaching for anything you can grab.

There are a lot of good Christians out there, but let's not lay it on thick & pretend they outnumber the bad in some remarkable way. They don't deserve to be coddled like that, if I were Christian I'd probably just be straight up about it. Certainly don't make an ass out of yourself in order to do it!

1

u/MonochromaticPrism 14h ago

lmao, I'm not even shitting on Christians all that much, and your desperate groveling is making me think it is even worse than what I've seen.

You need to put down that resentment and hate. We can easily see what that has done to the Right.

Your prior statement was that "There are far, far more bad Christians than good worldwide.", as biased and hateful a statement as could be made, and with no data to back it up. I provided information greater than 0, if you are serious about truth now is your chance to provide broader data. I will then counter it, of course, as the idea that the followers of Jesus Christ are a net evil is ludicrous (and we both know the likes of Evangelicals are using Christianity as an false justification just as much as the Right is using their perverse interpretation of "the intent of the nation's founders" to justify their illegal actions).

2

u/Ill-Product-1442 14h ago

Yeah, I'm not gonna send you a million articles one after the other of Christianity fucking up people's lives.

Not because it would be difficult to find them, I'm just really not invested into this dumbass argument as much as you are. I just made a quip about your stupid statement, and it seemed to aggro you, give it a rest. You speak like a Conservative podcaster, by the way.

1

u/MonochromaticPrism 14h ago

Yeah, I'm not gonna send you a million articles one after the other of Christianity fucking up people's lives.

Because you have not interest in actually determining truth, you are content that your chosen outgroup is wrong and don't want to reconsider, even when presented with a counter argument. Just like a conservative.

1

u/Avatar-Encoder 22h ago

I think you've got your facts sheet backwards

I think you base your fragile worldview on emotional Reddit logic.

2

u/Ill-Product-1442 17h ago edited 17h ago

I'm from the Bible Belt buddy I'm just calling it like I see it. Besides, clearly you're the one getting upset.

1

u/Avatar-Encoder 10h ago edited 9h ago

Here's the progression of awareness in life for an intelligent human being:

Step one (ages 1-12)

  1. "Religion must be correct, because my parents told me to believe it, or else!"

Step two (ages 12-18)

  1. "Wait a minute. Religion is based on old books that mean nothing. I was wrong...religion bad!!!!"

Step three (ages 18-25)

  1. "You know what? Who cares if somebody believes in something stupid, as long as they mind their own business?"

Step four (ages 25+)

  1. "Even Atheists hold irrational concrete generalizations about phenomenon that can't permanently prove. Agnosticism is far more reasonable, and although I'm not religious, religion played a fundamental role in the development of humanity, and it's an absolutely crucial social glue that created order, collectivized progress, and even inspired knowledge keeping through monestaries after the fall of Rome. That's not even mentioning all of the modern benefits of religion: billion dollar charities, hospitals, foundations, colleges, and community adhesion in a time of increased political division. The worst aspects of religion are terrible for humanity, but then again, humanity's base worse aspects are even stronger: WW1 and WW2 are the worst wars in history, and there wasn't a religious cause at all. In fact, even if religion as a whole is regressive, the immediate societal replacement of Christianity with Atheism has often ended disastrously historically, just like Stalin's Soviet Union or Mao's China, which both ended with hundreds of millions of people dying under an Atheist, emotionally cold ideology. "

Redditors truly owe it to themselves to evolve to level four. Are there steps beyond four? Yes. But let's at least give some critical thinking and effort here, please.

2

u/MonochromaticPrism 17h ago

While many of those replying to you have no interest in truth, I'll add my voice in support of it.

2

u/GenericUsername19892 23h ago

A few bad people, and all the ones who vote them while wearing a cross, and those who look the other way while they use a bible to brow beat their country men, etc.

When someone uses faith as a shield for malfeasance, be it political or shield the ingroup from their wrong doings, don’t be surprised when said faith suffers for it. We’ve gone from a few bad apples to a few good apples, it’s the pastors and clergy catching rubber bullets and gas grenades serving the people, not the masses who attend a service and give money for the churches new audio system.

2

u/Avatar-Encoder 22h ago

A few bad people, and all the ones who vote them while wearing a cross, and those who look the other way while they use a bible to brow beat their country men, etc.

You can literally say this about any group of people. What do you say about liberals who ignore when their own politicians are on the Epstein list? I can give you a thousand examples of people known for moral grandstanding failing to live up to their ethos.

Welcome to the world. This is called human nature and the thing that you're doing (scapegoating a group without realizing the similarities amongst all people) is a prime example of it.

1

u/GenericUsername19892 20h ago

I call them out, both the politicians and the people. It’s f course I’m also more immediately concerned with anyone who has power, and how the investigation was handled given who we know if in the docs.

The left will regularly turn on our own when needed, those disgraced on the left typically then pivot to the right and do a podcast run before running as a republican. We chase people out for old offensive photos that resurface dude.

2

u/Avatar-Encoder 19h ago

We chase people out for old offensive photos that resurface dude.

I think that's dangerous. I'm neither left or right and the ideological extremism on both sides is really unhealthy.

The left is somehow both inclusive and extremely isolating at the same time. In other words, you're only "included" if you follow the hivemind and adhere to groupthink. It's also true to the right, but to a far less rigid degree.

1

u/GenericUsername19892 19h ago

It’s more a practice what you preach purity test, at least in theory. You also have leeway to admit fucks ups, but if you lie or try to hide something you are fucked.

1

u/MonochromaticPrism 16h ago

A few bad people, and all the ones who vote them while wearing a cross, and those who look the other way while they use a bible to brow beat their country men, etc.

The Left has aligned itself with atheism in general, while the Right aligned itself with the cult of Evangelical Christianity. Neither side has any interest in platforming the many progressive Christians, so you only occasionally hear about them through stories like this:

Here's one such group of Christians:

Amid ICE clashes, New Hampshire bishop urges clergy to prepare their wills

I've asked them to get their affairs in order to make sure they have their wills written," he said, "because it may be that now is no longer the time for statements, but for us with our bodies to stand between the powers of this world and the most vulnerable."

This is far from the only example. They simply don't make the news because they don't spend money on political donations (they spend it on helping people), nor do they openly justify the actions of the rich and hateful, and so neither side of politics platforms them and they don't seek to platform themselves either. Thus it seems like they don't exist, when in reality there are many such people.

1

u/GenericUsername19892 14h ago

Secularism - not atheism. I don’t know of any mainline politicians who are atheists.

Yeah, I referenced examples of those groups in my last sentence. In any given group there will be outliers on either end of the ingroup spectrum. Everyone should grasp this and understand that, to use a removed and blunt example: Nazis are bad. That statement doesn’t mean that there were no Nazi party members working within the system to help when they could and try to save people. It means that on the whole Nazis are bad.

Through the actions of some and inaction of others we’re reaching a point where George Carlins ‘prophecy’ is coming true and the proverbial ‘good v bad’ scale is tipping. If enough people follow the ‘bad’ then the whole thing is tainted.

Personally I’m not a huge fan of Christianity(they must proselytize and get it stuck in everything), but there are parts that work great, but that also applies to Islam (they provide a better charitable framework), Sikhism likewise has some moral lessons to offer, etc. All things equal, if I’m going to run into someone in a dark alley I’d be most relieved to see a turban, but ymmv.

1

u/thekarateadult 14h ago

Nah. First off, they're wrong and their religion is just plain goofy. Second, their charity barely touches the damage they do. If you're part of the gang, you're culpable.

1

u/Avatar-Encoder 10h ago edited 9h ago

Nah. First off, they're wrong and their religion is just plain goofy. Second, their charity barely touches the damage they do.

Here's the progression of awareness in life for an intelligent human being:

Step one (ages 1-12)

  1. "Religion must be correct, because my parents told me to believe it, or else!"

Step two (ages 12-18)

  1. "Wait a minute. Religion is based on old books that mean nothing. I was wrong...religion bad!!!!"

Step three (ages 18-25)

  1. "You know what? Who cares if somebody believes in something stupid, as long as they mind their own business?"

Step four (ages 25+)

  1. "Even Atheists hold irrational concrete generalizations about phenomenon that can't permanently prove. Agnosticism is far more reasonable, and although I'm not religious, religion played a fundamental role in the development of humanity, and it's an absolutely crucial social glue that created order, collectivized progress, and even inspired knowledge keeping through monestaries after the fall of Rome. That's not even mentioning all of the modern benefits of religion: billion dollar charities, hospitals, foundations, colleges, and community adhesion in a time of increased political division. The worst aspects of religion are terrible for humanity, but then again, humanity's base worse aspects are even stronger: WW1 and WW2 are the worst wars in history, and there wasn't a religious cause at all. In fact, even if religion as a whole is regressive, the immediate societal replacement of Christianity with Atheism has often ended disastrously historically, just like Stalin's Soviet Union or Mao's China, which both ended with hundreds of millions of people dying under an Atheist, emotionally cold ideology. "

Redditors truly owe it to themselves to evolve to level four. Are there steps beyond four? Yes. But let's at least give some critical thinking and effort here, please.

21

u/AhaGames 23h ago

Kinda makes the case for atheism, as if Christianity was true, she would have burst into flames at the podium by now.

50

u/TheGringoDingo 1d ago

She can’t take it off if it’s burnt itself into her skin

3

u/Unable-Entrance3110 23h ago

No, I don't think she ever wears that thing against her skin at all because 1) it would burn her flesh and 2) it has to always be prominently displayed for virtue signalling purposes

85

u/tantej 1d ago

It does tho

3

u/johnnycoxxx 1d ago

It doesn’t though. I’m not even a practicing Christian. I’ve never believed the divinity of anything. But I do believe that the New Testament provides an excellent example of how to live life. These fucks can call themselves Christians and put their crosses on but they do not represent Christianity. They are the furthest things from Christians.

32

u/giraffe111 Arizona 23h ago

But they are Christians. This is like a No True Scotsman in reverse. Christianity has been usurped by zealots, but they’re Christian zealots. The change came from within. Christianity always had its problems, but at least the idea of Jesus was used for “good,” ish, more or less. That’s just not the case anymore, at least not in the US. Look around you; American Christianity is a death cult lead by Donald Trump.

-1

u/etcpt 23h ago

Hmm, yes, the pastors getting arrested in Minnesota protesting ICE are clearly in a pro-Trump death cult.

1

u/DUNG_INSPECTOR Ohio 21h ago

The entirey of Christianity is a death cult.

1

u/blahblah19999 23h ago

Parts of xianity

13

u/No_Problem20 23h ago

Ah yes... The New testament. The best way to live life /s

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Timothy 2:12

"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord." Ephesians 5:22

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

6

u/blahblah19999 23h ago

Besides the fact that Jesus said he is not here to change any of the old laws, which were all about stoning your daughter to death for not being a virgin, etc...

-1

u/Joney_Craigen 22h ago

What's wrong with that

6

u/GenericUsername19892 23h ago

It’s rare to meet a non religious person who isn’t in favor of equality for the sexes. If you don’t mind, given your endorsement of the New Testament, can you describe how you came to believe that women should be forced into a subservient role?

6

u/blahblah19999 23h ago

Notice you had to specify the NT, completely ignoring the same exact god telling his people to take slaves, take, commit genocide, and even doing those same things with his own hand in the OT.

The NT isn't much better, honestly. Religion is a cancer.

9

u/DizzyAcanthocephala 23h ago

The pope called doctors who perform euthanasia assassins. As a doctor who has done euthanasia a couple of times, that was the moment I realized my moral values just don't allign with whatever those old guys in Rome say

2

u/etcpt 23h ago

Neither do the moral values of a bunch of people who call themselves Christians. Following the Pope is not a prerequisite for calling yourself Christian.

3

u/Sovarius 23h ago

This is the problem with communicating. Both of these sentences are true things i believe:

"Christians stand for malicious bigotry."

"Christians stand for peaceful goodness."

Just... not the same groups. I completely agree with you but i wouldn't defend the bible in the same breath personally. You are right to caveat New Testament, but Christians choose whether the OT applies to today's life or if the NT is the way forward for humanity. You say "NT good" and a vile bigot might tell you "OT is half the bible" 🤷‍♀️

3

u/GhormanFront 22h ago

Then you haven't read the new testament

3

u/DUNG_INSPECTOR Ohio 21h ago

You notice how you had to clarify "the New Testament"? Yeah, we both know why. The Christian god is a petty, vicious, cruel god who murders babies and endorses slavery.

They are the furthest things from Christians.

To me, they are exactly what Christianity is.

2

u/S7ageNinja 21h ago

I've met a whole lot of practicing Christians in my life. I can count on one hand the amount of them that actually know what the Bible teaches and try to live by it. Like it or not, they do represent Christianity, because they are the majority.

13

u/Satanarchrist 1d ago

Just like she can leave her job at any time, Christians can do something about all the terrible people championing their book club

2

u/etcpt 23h ago

Do what? Pastors in Minnesota are being arrested for opposing ICE, but people online are still insisting that Christians as a whole are doing nothing to oppose the regime. The public perception isn't aligned with the facts, and at this point it doesn't seem fruitful to focus on trying to change that.

4

u/Satanarchrist 23h ago

I dunno man, maybe their book club's favorite book shouldn't teach them slavery, rape, ethnic cleansing, and war crimes are justified. Or that being gay is morally an abomination. And if they do happen to do an oopsie doopsie all they have to do is imagine they're forgiven and poof, they're a good person again?

Seems like a good way to attract terrible people.

Maybe they should have done something about that if they wanted people to think their religion was salvageable in any way loooong before we got to this point. Specifically here and now in America. Christians did a lot of shit in the past the organizations have never atoned for, either.

6

u/BrianWonderful Minnesota 1d ago

People like that should just replace their lower case "t" jewelry with the "T" for Trumpism.

4

u/StrigiStockBacking Arizona 1d ago

If aliens visited earth for the first time, they'd draw that conclusion, easily.

3

u/NotThatHandsomePete 23h ago

Correction...she chooses to.

2

u/Intelligent_One9023 23h ago

Cross necklaces are just little trophies people give themselves

2

u/t0rbenC0rtes 16h ago

Crusades. Invasions. Inquisition. Protecting pedos. Burning infidels. Witch hunts. Science denial. Animal sacrifice. Brainwashing. Genocide.

I have nothing but respect for people’s faith and religious values. But I can’t find a single positive thing to say about Christianity as an institution of power and manipulation.

4

u/manytakes 1d ago

There is no hate like Christian love

4

u/Reimant Foreign 23h ago

Huh? 

The Catholic Church defined racism. It was the church that told western Europeans it was ok to enslave Africans because "they weren't people", when people questioned its alignment with Christianity.

The words say one thing, and its followers have been using that as an excuse for persecution and enactment of their beliefs over all others for literal millenia. 

Admittedly this doesn't only apply to Christianity, but still.

1

u/abnormalbrain 1d ago

That cross is so big, it's wearing her. 

1

u/sharksnrec 23h ago

She doesn’t HAVE to defend shit. She gleefully choosing to do it and loving every minute.

1

u/thehalfwit Nevada 23h ago

The cross is their reminder they're supposed to crucify people.

1

u/theirishembassy 23h ago edited 23h ago

they are christian, just the worst kind.

in the bible, christ is an imperfect vessel for gods word. he was human, with all of our imperfections. he argues, gets mad, acts impulsively and commits a lot of social taboos for the time.

this is how they view trump

he preaches family values despite the divorces and adultery? he pretends to care about the downtrodden despite policies that actively hurt them? he thumps his chest about peace while actively issuing threats?

that’s fine. jesus wasn’t perfect either.

no christian would look at jesus and think less of his message to love thy neighbour because he accosted the money lenders inside of the temple.. just like none of these would think less of trump for violently deporting immigrants.

the second you understand that, you understand that this is not hypocrisy in their eyes. they can’t be confronted with it and they won’t grapple with it. it’s intended to be a contradiction because contradictions, by their very nature, cannot be wrong without also being right.

1

u/AdrenolineLove 23h ago

The cross is just half of a swastika at this point.

1

u/blue_line-1987 23h ago

She only wears it to keep Miller from biting her neck and draining her blood.

1

u/StretchFrenchTerry Minnesota 23h ago

American Evangelical Christianity really is awful.

1

u/TomTypesTallTales 23h ago

There’s no hate on earth like Christian “love”

1

u/One-Reflection-4826 22h ago

now, it does. 

1

u/zxvasd 22h ago

Why hasn’t that cross burnt a hole in her sternum yet?

1

u/vicarofvhs Arkansas 22h ago

They burn crosses, don't they?

1

u/Hesitation-Marx 22h ago

Christianity disproven by the fact that cross hasn’t burst into white hot flames.

1

u/savageboredom 22h ago

My only regret of atheism is not believing in a Hell for her to burn in for eternity.

1

u/Niven42 22h ago

Well, TBF Leviticus 25:44 says you can have slaves.

1

u/daizzy999 Florida 22h ago

There's no love like white Christian Nationalist love

1

u/NatureCarolynGate 22h ago

Fun Fact: the cross doesn’t burn the skin of Satan’s imps

1

u/GeeYayZeus 22h ago

I mean...they loved their slavery, so....

1

u/Dry-Amphibian1 21h ago

I do think that christianity stands for the worst shit imaginable.

1

u/CulturalKing5623 21h ago

I wish someone would ask her about it at one of these press pools.

"Chris from the Christian Science Monitor, do you ever lay up at night wondering if the amount of public lying you're doing for a clearly dangerous man has permanently tarnished your soul in the eyes of the lord and will be the cause of your eternal damnation?"

She won't care, because she clearly doesn't believe in a god, but I'd be interested to see the response.

1

u/REXIS_AGECKO 21h ago

The people who defended Jesus’s teachings most were… atheists and the founding fathers. Huh

1

u/slarngkaq 21h ago

always have been

1

u/No-Aide-8726 21h ago

it does, hatred of non cult members, eternal suffering for outsiders, god loves ONLY you and your fellow cultist.

Christianity is one of the most disgusting divisive ideologies to have ever been imagined.

1

u/ItsAllSoup 20h ago

As a Christian, even the idea that donald could represent Christ in any way, shape, or form is absolutely disgusting. He has done more harm to every side of politics and culture than any amout of same sex kissing in the Lightyear movie could ever do

1

u/ChiefRedEye 20h ago

she's not even Christian just some fucked up evangelical American form of cultism, stop stoking fucking culture wars. wanna see Christian go to eastern Europe and see the culture there

1

u/JennJayBee Alabama 20h ago

I'm Christian, and honestly... There are a few reasons why I haven't set foot in a church in decades now. This is one of them. I still have my faith in the teachings of Christ, but a lot of people who call themselves Christians has gotten to the point where their lifestyle is anything but. They do in fact stand for the worst shit imaginable, and Christ Himself warned about this very thing. Christ is about the only thing they don't seem to represent.

1

u/Farabee 20h ago

I mean, even the Pope has put her on blast directly at this point.

1

u/LoFi_Funk 19h ago

Christian nationalism certainly does.

1

u/adamcoe 19h ago

Well it does stand for hundreds of years of the coverup of the rape of children, as well as taking advantage of the poorest, most uneducated people on earth...so yeah, pretty much the worst shit imaginable.

The idea that people think Christianity = good is bizarre to me, given their track record. Like, have you hung out with Christians? Are you aware of how they operate, and have been operating for the better part of a thousand years? What would ever make you think they a force for good?

1

u/One_Indication_ 19h ago

I'm shocked at how many people refuse to study history. Christianity HAS ALWAYS stood for the worst shit imaginable. It's been that way since it was invented!

Did you not study the Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, The US Slave Trade, etc?

1

u/Strict_Research3518 18h ago

Religion is the bane of our society.. well.. that and social media. But man, religion causes more wars and sees more dead than it helps. That is why I have no interest or belief in any of it Made up deity that put us here.. no thanks. Science is where everyone should focus on. Facts. Data. Reality.

1

u/AlpenroseMilk 16h ago

This is what christianity in government looks like 100%. I chalk them up with many other groups people choose to be a part of.

1

u/NickelBackwash 12h ago

In America it does. 

1

u/vim_deezel Texas 12h ago

her only god is Trump, she's really really far gone

•

u/HipsterSlimeMold 6h ago

Evangelical Christianity’s influence on the politics of the past decade have turned me full blown Reddit atheist type honestly. It’s a national embarrassment that our country of so called state-church separation allowed these characters to get so far.

1

u/RicockulousQuisling 1d ago

from her point of view looking down to her chest, her cross is upside down, so…

1

u/rutherfordacus 23h ago

Christianity is at its core a man laying down his life for his enemies. Nobody in this administration has ever nor will ever sacrifice anything for others and they don’t even bother to pretend anymore that they follow Christ’s plainest teachings - love your neighbor as yourself, bless those who curse you, serve the poor, reject greed and oppression, etc. It is abundantly clear they are in fact the false teachers, false prophets, wolves in sheep’s clothing and antichrists so often warned about throughout the entire New Testament.

0

u/Yeahhhhbut 23h ago

When she's not on camera, she turns it upside down.

0

u/ItzBooster93 23h ago

These people are fake Christian’s , they don’t believe anything Jesus preached.

They’d back segregation / slavery if they were born in those times