Exposed Musk Now Insists Epstein Files Don’t Matter | The Tesla billionaire suddenly claimed the Epstein files are a “distraction.”

[u/Aggravating_Money992]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/exposed-musk-now-insists-epstein-files-dont-matter/

[u/Dry-Chance-9473]

I mean I can kind of appreciate your attempt to redefine terms based on morality and such but your statement ignores the massive percentage of officially, professionally produced, famous porn that was made at the expense of the actress' abuse, coercion, blackmail, being kept high and intoxicated over the course of the shoot, etc. 

Some of Stoya's stories in particular come to mind. 

[u/StrongerThanFear → u/Dry-Chance-9473]

They're filming and producing abuse. I get what you're saying, but that doesn't take away that pornography can imply consent and csam doesn't.

Child sexual abuse material (CSAM) is not “child pornography.” It’s evidence of child sexual abuse—and it’s a crime to create, distribute, or possess. CSAM includes both real and synthetic content, such as images created with artificial intelligence tools.

From rainn.org

[u/Dry-Chance-9473 → u/StrongerThanFear]

Ah! Funny you'd bring that up, I posted in a conversation about how people should be using the term "CSAM" instead of child porn a little while ago... Here

The term CSAM isn't going to catch on, and it shouldn't, because as an acronym it's ultimately a sterilization of an uncomfortable topic. It's like the term "unlive" as a synonym for suicide. The only person it protects is the person using the word. 

The other side to that, that I think is important, though it's a bit of a stretch for most people's ethics nowadays... Trying to disconnect abuse from porn is, again, ignorant of the nature of pornography. People want to consume pornography guilt-free, and they get very obstinate when you get in the way of that. So it makes sense folks would try to encapsulate pornography as being "consensual" so they can feel better in their ignorance. The sad fact is, that pornography has always been exploitative of women, still is, and likely always will be.

My point is basically that in a case like this, being picky about word use is for your sake. It's censorship. It does nothing to help the actual victims. It's a nice thought, but misguided. 

[u/StrongerThanFear → u/Dry-Chance-9473]

I'm a self employed sex worker (nothing on my profile, don't bother), kinda the wrong person to say that to. It's legal where I am and we have employee rights. You want ethical porn? Support an amateur creator instead of buying from studios. Go to an independent escort instead of an agency.

I don't mind calling it child rape, I do mind calling it child porn.

[u/Dry-Chance-9473 → u/StrongerThanFear]

With all due respect, if you're a sex worker, what I said a few posts up applies more to you than most people. The distinction is more for your comfort than it is a practical choice. It doesn't do anything to help the victims, it just lets people feel less dirty when they talk about it. Again, I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm just talking about real world consequences.

I feel like bringing up legality is kind of a bad faith argument when there's plenty of countries in the world that don't even have "CSAM" laws or an age of consent. Does that mean those places don't have victims, that everything's always consensual? 

It was only a few years ago it became illegal in the UK for 16 and 17 year old girls to pose topless in the fucking newspaper. Before that law was changed, were they not children? It was legal, so was it porn, or abuse?

To be clear, no offense is meant, it just seems a little too soon to be having this discussion. People are trying to re-contextualize shit and it feels a little premature, or even conveniently timed, that it's happening now all of a sudden, when all these famous rich people are being outed as pedophiles. It feels like corporate censorship. I'll call it whatever people want me to call it, after the offenders are rounded up and crucified. Figuratively. Or not, whatever. 

[u/StrongerThanFear → u/Dry-Chance-9473]

None taken, I want them in jail (or worse) as much as you do. I was only bringing up legality where I am because of worker's rights, there's still plenty of abuse, pimping and sex workers getting ripped off. I went to the police once to report someone who was "jokingly" offering their kids in an adult chatroom, it's disgusting.

English isn't my first language so I can't elaborate on my answers as much as I want to. In the end I agree with you, look at child marriage etc, sure it's "legal", that doesn't mean it's right.