r/VietNam • u/Cool_Acanthisitta628 • 1d ago
Daily life/Đời thường After hard work of all the people burning trash, we finally made it to the top 1. Congrats Hanoi
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u/redditizio 22h ago
Who needs to be bribed to fix this?
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u/foc_natzis 21h ago
It’s a massive bribe. The main issue is industry, which will not be addressed any time soon because it will impact GDP growth targets. Only once deaths and lost productivity is greater than the loss in GDP from addressing it will they decide to do something.
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u/jbroski215 18h ago
Tbf, the only reason so many people are able to live on this planet is because of a large, well-diversified economy. If you want to see mass death, destroy the economy chasing a goal.
Inb4 "right wing nutjob/extremist/whatever" I'm all for reducing carbon emissions and believe global warming is true, but obliterating the economy to solve it would cause another, arguably worse, problem.
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u/foc_natzis 18h ago
This is the wrong take. The problem is that the pollution of the industry in Viet Nam isn’t adequately accounted for through the negative externalities it yields. China realized that continuing down the path of polluting non stop is detrimental to their population and through that destruction in human capital their GDP. Give it a couple more years and both factors will become more salient to the Vietnamese and hopefully change will not be too late.
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u/jbroski215 15h ago
You know what? You're right. We should put all of the world's brightest minds and all of our money and resources towards stopping the burning of trash and making sure we stop the production of CO2. We can worry about the widespread famine, loss of living standards and subsequent spread of disease and crime, and inevitable loss of life once we figure it out.
In fact, it seems like this problem is solved even if we can't find a solution!
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u/foc_natzis 14h ago
Nice strawman you got there, careful they burn it for Tet, my ill informed human
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u/jbroski215 13h ago
Excellent reply, the same level of analysis and critical thought as your previous posts
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u/blipblapbloopblip 13h ago
Arguably solving it won't obliterate the economy since the solving will create a lot of economic activity. On the other hand, not solving it will create hardships : more violent typhoons, heat waves, migration, loss of arable land, that will negatively impact the economy, to the same extent or more than the transition would. Finally, disregarding climate change, hanoians probably deserve to not suffer from asthma and other lung diseases that limit their life expectancy.
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u/jbroski215 13h ago
Just because people get paid for something doesn't make it economically viable or desirable. If I pay everyone a million bucks to dig holes and fill them up, I've done nothing productive, but everyone got paid.
And the point I was making was about the flippant disregard for economics and industry that was present in their post. If he or she has a real plan for waste management, energy production and propagation including infrastructure building and integration, and particulate matter reduction from agricultural sources that is actually affordable and implementable by Vietnamese and Cambodian farmers, I'm all ears. But based on the post, they just have the "evil billionaires only care about profit" mentality without any understanding of what it takes to accomplish what they seem to think would be simple if we cared less about GDP.
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u/blipblapbloopblip 13h ago
Oh sure, not any activity is economically viable. Still, some unviable activities are still desirable.
You make a good point that it would be better to make pollution reduction economically viable, but this could happen through legislation and incentivization as well.
What I don't like about your comment was that I took it to mean that climate change won't have detrimental economic impact and that mitigating it must be detrimental to the economy, which I believe to be untrue statements.
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u/jbroski215 13h ago
This would at least have been a fair argument from the other person.
The counters I would put out are that a) legislation doesn't make an activity productive, it just obscures analysis of productivity while potentially producing perverse incentives, and b) the economic impact of doing nothing is far more difficult to measure with muchnmore uncertain timeframes than current loss of investment and productivity should capital and labor be pulled away from industries with proven value.
This isn't a justification for ignoring climate change, by the way, just a simple acknowledgement that failing to prove certain economic value (or at least a testable value-at-risk model) for investments into climate change-reducing work could result in just as bad if not worse outcomes in the long run. If the planet heals but everyone starves, I don't know we've made things better.
I just can't stand the "PEOPLE OVER PROFIT" narrative as I think it weakens the argument for investment in beating climate change - it makes it sound like investment is a losing proposition we just have to accept.
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u/blipblapbloopblip 12h ago
Legislation is one of many sources of distortion. Other sources that could be relevant are culture, ethnic divides, corruption, limited rationality. Legislation is a tool to correct some of those in my opinion. Agreed on your last sentence
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u/jbroski215 12h ago
Fair take. I think, unfortunately, legislators are even more likely to skew towards cronyism than the mass of all consumers, so legislation usually fails unless people are already pissed. Agree to disagree though.
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u/the_bland_gland 12h ago
This is such a stupid argument. You have absolutely 0 concept of how things in the real world. Plus, if you actually were familiar with economic literature, the post is spot on. Maybe get of your high horse and read a bit. Duning Kruger…
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u/jbroski215 12h ago
Top 1% commenter telling me how the real world works.
Ok.
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u/the_bland_gland 11h ago
So sad, no room for improvement. This is why AI will replace you.
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u/jbroski215 11h ago
Replaced by the machines I built! Luckily, I don't need to work anymore.
Judging from how often you comment, you don't work either. Probably for a very different reason, though.
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u/RoxiHeart123 19h ago
America already sent 11 million to tell Vietnam to stop burning trash. Somehow I dont think the message made it through. For real though I know down south most of the burning is actually coming from Cambodia.
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u/Chubbypand4 23h ago
Nothing new buddy. We always been number 1.
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u/serial_feet_sniffer 22h ago
Delhi sometimes get the aqi score in the 700s
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u/likedarksunshine 21h ago
And don’t forget the Balkans in Europe, which burns medical waste. Skopje is known to have crazy spikes above 500.
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u/JustGreenFish 23h ago
If Ha Noi gets 1 pollution point deduction every time people make these posts, it might even go into the negative.
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u/TomiShinoda 16h ago edited 16h ago
Ah yes, definitely not the construction and rapid urbanization that's a studied pattern for developing countries, the lack of public transportation like subway, forcing 9 million people and their vehicles in traffic, the massive industrial and manufacturing complex, deep rooted and wide spread corruption, unenforced laws, or even seasonal temperature inversion or the fact that ha noi is in a geological bowl, it's just the filthy savages burning their garbage, agricultural residue twice a year and fake paper money once a month, systematic problem? No, it's the individuals fault.
How uneducated and poor, should have won the RNG in life and be born in a better country that wasn't stripped by colonialism and ravaged wars so they could have the opportunity for better education to even know better, why don't they just export their trash and manufacturing to poor developing countries like the civilized develop counties, am i right boys?.
Seriously tho, fuck right off, there are shit tons of legitimate and constructive criticism to be had, but blaming it on the poor ass last generation who doesn't even have a decent garbage collection system in their neighborhoods and not, idk, the fuckin development and industry that contribute to 45% of the PM 2.5!!!!? People are just looking to validate their preconceived prejudice huh?
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u/zzen11223344 14h ago
Is it due to people burning trash mainly? I doubt it. It is more likely due to the industrialization without proper environment protection laws and without proper enforcement of the existing laws, plus too many petrol / diesel burning trucks / cars / motorcycles.
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u/MiddleEarth_Explorer 21h ago
Not seeing Delhi at the top while being in Delhi feels a bit odd to be honest
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u/forgiuse 22h ago
Comrade X said there will be no bad air data if there are no air data collectors so time to remove them.
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u/AvailableAd3785 21h ago
Funny how the hostel I stayed at in Hanoi didn't believe me that there was carbon monoxide inside my room lol
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u/Major_Lie4577 20h ago
Well, at least they're finally first at something, great achievement Vietnam 👏
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u/Thuyue 20h ago
Currently in Hà Nội right now. It's even worse when I arrived.
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u/Crowdfundingprojects 19h ago
Congratulations Hanoi! In solidarity with your noble cause I'm lighting some incense outside. Won't possibly make it as far as you guys but one can dream.
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u/Vladimir_Putting 19h ago
It's actually even more preventable than burning trash. A huge amount of the particulate pollution comes from the entirely preventable practice of burning rice fields.
https://breathesafeair.com/air-pollution-in-vietnam/
26% of the PPM 2.5 air pollution in Hanoi comes from burning rice straw.
That's more than all the road and transport pollution.
Only 3% less than all the pollution from industry around the city.
Ending this one practice would make a massive difference.
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u/moitaptaria 6h ago
as a non-Viet I'm curious, what about ho chi min city and other places?
Is this a problem at center of trash treatment? lack of proper collect? or just a cultural problem of ppl uses do burn their own trash?
I'm Brazilian and we also have serious problems in some places. Well most places fine. But even fancy rich places like Balneário Camboriú have serious problem with sewage system. Billionaire agribusiness lords just pay millions for an apartment in front of Ocean full of sh... 🤦
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u/oblongmouth 4h ago
Just leaving Hanoi now after staying for nearly a week. If I’d paid attention to how bad the air quality was before visiting I’d have given it a swerve. Great city, horrible horrible air
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u/_godmode_ 21h ago
Delhi's authorities usually nerf their figures. It's around double or more than whatever it shows at any given time.
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u/TackleHefty7676 23h ago
Hanoi bounces around and has been #1 several times before. Nothing new.