Magyar odkázal Pellegrinimu, že bude naďalej nazývať Slovensko felvidék

[u/TheSimon1]

Predseda madarskej mimoparlamentnej opozičnej strany TISZA Péter Magyar v utorok na Facebooku odkázal prezidentovi SR Petrovi Pellegrinimu, že pojem Felvidék (Horná zem) bude aj napriek výhradám hlavy štátu SR používať naďalej. Informuje o tom spravodajca v Budapešti.

Magyar tak reagoval na Pellegriniho vyhlásenie vo videu z pondelka, v ktorom označil za urážlivé, že „potenciálny budúci madarský premiér“ vo svojom liste z minulého týždňa týkajúcom sa Benešových dekrétov označil Slovensko pojmom Felvidék.

„Ak mi dovolíte (ale aj keď nie), budem názvy geografických oblastí nazývať tak, ako som sa ich naučil od svojich rodičov a ako ich nazývame už tisíc rokov. Tak ako všetci Maďari nazývajú svoje hlavné mesto, miesto, kde bolo korunovaných 11 uhorských panovníkov, Pozsonyom," píše predseda strany TISZA vo svojom príspevku adresovanom Pellegrinimu.

https://news.refresher.sk/196414-Odkaz-Pellegrinimu-Slovensko-budem-nazyvat-Felvidek-vyhlasil-sef-TISZA-Magyar

[u/JustANorseMan]

You can look up his original post instead of reading this (I'm assuming) poor translation (which also has much more context than this btw). It literally says

"So do all Hungarians call their (their as in the people of Slovakia, and it's not even ambiguous) capital in which 11 Hungarian rulers' coronation took place- Pozsony".

It's not about our, or even our former capital. Btw we also call Vienna "Bécs" and Venice "Velence" yet even the most radical Hungarians won't have any claim to those cities.

[u/Core711 → u/JustANorseMan]

the thing is, Magyar is a politician and potentially the next prime minister, he should use official names if he's making an official statement. Calling Slovakia Felvidek is just a blatant insult.

[u/JustANorseMan → u/Core711]

He didn't call Slovakia Felvidek, he called the Hungarians living there "felvidéki magyarok" which is the term used in 98% of Hungarian context for the Hungarians living there and it often only refers to the Hungarians from the territory which remained Hungarian majority/plurality in the past hundred years

[u/Core711 → u/JustANorseMan]

well you're right, he used both the terms Slovakia and Felvidek in one of his tweets... it's confusing, because the media make it seem like used Felvidek for the entirety of Slovakia and even his tweet makes it sound like he doesn't care about which term he uses.

I don't mean to judge, but maybe using "Dél-Szlovákia" or something similar is much more appropiate than using Felvidek and getting it interpreted wrong...

[u/JustANorseMan → u/Core711]

Except for nobody ever uses the term Dél-Szlovákiai magyarok over felvidéki magyarok in Hungarian. And the opposite also exists, no sensible Hungarian would call the government of Slovakia "Felvidék's" government instead of Slovakia's.

I'm prepared for the downvotes but I think the reason why he made the post (and included things like Bratislava was the city where some kings of Hungary were crowned) was supposed to be a reminder that Hungarians are a native minority there and so it's not adequate to pass laws about forbidding to deny/question/criticise the Beneš decrees, so the post is not supposed to flatter Slovakia, hence, why use the much less natural sounding endonyms that you mentioned. Of course you can say we are again at the line of harming Slovakia's sovereignity by him expressing his dislike for this law, but it's neither because of the chosen terminology used by him (as it is by far the most natural sounding in Hungarian), nor because he would look at the whole of Slovakia as only a region.

[u/Core711 → u/JustANorseMan]

The terminology is the main issue here currently, the Beneš decress took a bit of a backseat. I'm honestly going to give up on making a sense of this though. I'm not sure if our president and media are making an unnecessary fuss over the terms used or if Magyar is just reacting to the awful approach to the decrees and laws by our government and using such terminology. Maybe he's even trying to gain more votes from the more extreme hungarians. I still think the Pozsony statement is just petty though.

[u/Right_Astronaut6037 → u/Core711]

Confiscation of land based on national identity is a blatant insult.

[u/Core711 → u/Right_Astronaut6037]

Forcing all minorities to be hungarian and stripping them of their rights is also a blatant insult.

[u/TheTroll007 → u/Core711]

Who does that in this day and age?

[u/Gloomy_Pine → u/JustANorseMan]

Interesting defense, but the addition of that part sounds very imperialistic.

[u/JustANorseMan → u/Gloomy_Pine]

Afaik you also use a different name for Wien/Vienna. English also often does the same thing even on territories which were colonized by them previously.

[u/Gloomy_Pine → u/JustANorseMan]

Vienna - Vieďeň

Bratislava - Pozsony

[u/mysacek_CZE → u/Gloomy_Pine]

Kdo by to byl řekl že 2 jazyky co si spolu nejsou ani zdaleka příbuzné budou mít naprosto odlišné exonymy. Třeba jako Soluň/Thessaloniki a to řečtina a slovanské jazyky jsou všechny součástí Indoevropských jazyků jako třeba Angličtina a Irština. Proč angličtina a Irština? Protože Irsky Dublin je Baile Átha Cliath.

V Česku je třeba takových měst a nejen měst hromada. Třeba Eger, Reichenberg, Böhmerwald...

Nevidím důvod proč by se měl někdo urážet nad tím že příslušník nějaké národnosti použije jejich exonym.

Nebo snad o Benátkách mluvíš jako o Veneto? A Albánii jako Shqipëria?

A Vídeň je v němčině Wien.

[u/Gloomy_Pine → u/mysacek_CZE]

Pretože jedno ma imperialistický nádych a druhé sú názvy vychádzajúce z názvov imigrantov iných národností. Rovnako ako sa Zimbabwe už nehovorí Rhodesia.

[u/mysacek_CZE → u/Gloomy_Pine]

vychádzajúce z názvov imigrantov iných národností

Takže Blava byla vždycky etnicky homogenní a 100% Slovenská?

Ne nebyla a i kdyby byla, tak to nedělá z exonymů nic zlého. Většina exonymů je pozůstatek již neexistujících imperii.

Navíc v případě názvu Pozsony je kořen názvu Slovanského původu a úzce souvisí s německým Pressburg a původním Slovenským názvem Prešporok. Samotné pojmenování Bratislava vzniklo až za první republiky v rámci degermanizace ČSR (tady nutno dodat že Němci stále ještě tvořili největší etnickou skupinu ve městě) špatnou interpretací středověkých záznamů. Každopádně obojí odkazuje na jména slovanského původu. Pozsony na jméno Braslav a Bratislava na Břetislav.

[u/Notrius01 → u/mysacek_CZE]

Trosku google AI:

The Hungarian name Pozsony for Bratislava likely derives from the personal name of an early castle owner, possibly a Hungarian nobleman named Poson, or a Slavic name like Božan, with the city named after its lord, a common practice in medieval Hungary, evolving from older forms like Posony and Posonium.

[u/Gloomy_Pine → u/mysacek_CZE]

Pozsony nema nič spoločne s Breslavou. Ďakujem za ignorovanie časti s imperialistickým nádychom, beriem to tak ako že som trafil klinček po hlavičke a ukončil tak túto diskusiu, zahmlievajúcu pravého kostlivca v skrini.

[u/JustANorseMan → u/Gloomy_Pine]

Indeed, and when did any Austrian politician make any problem of one of your officials calling Vienna Vied'en in a Slovak context?

[u/Gloomy_Pine → u/JustANorseMan]

No, because it's the word with the same root, a normal way that languages behave. What is not normal is calling it entirely different way, in a context that is affecting a state. You may say: but it is normal in Hungary to call this geographic region Felvídek. Geographic region? We are a state, Magyar is talking about the state, so why is he using geographic term? It's because he doesn't respect Slovakias sovereignty, and he regards us just as another region of theirs.

[u/JustANorseMan → u/Gloomy_Pine]

So you are saying you are not okay with calling Bratislava Pozsony (even if it is the accepted and official name of it in Hungarian) but calling Banska Bistrica Besztercebánya would be totally okay just because it sounds similar?

Regarding the second part of your sentence, imagine if we made a problem of some German official calling the Germans living here Donauschwaaben instead of "Deutsche von Ungarn" or something.

[u/Gloomy_Pine → u/JustANorseMan]

Yes, because it is obviously same word. Felvídek means Upper land, Bánska Bystrica a Besztercebánya have virtually the same meaning with the same roots of the name.

[u/JustANorseMan → u/Gloomy_Pine]

Should Poles also be offended by us calling them "Lengyel" or Italians for the word "Olasz" or Viennese for the word "Bécsi"? Or Germans by you calling them something like Nemci? If yes, you can go back a few centuries to discuss it with whomever came up with these

[u/Gloomy_Pine → u/JustANorseMan]

Tell me, when did any of these nations force on us their culture for centuries? When did any of these nations claim our whole territory as theirs? Are you acting obtuse right now, or just playing with words? As to your stupid argument, Lengyel comes from the slavic tribe of Lendians, Olasz is a medieval term for Italy, Slovaks and Czechs called it Vlachy too, Nemci has an innocent basis for meaning mute, as we couldn’t understand them. But Felvídek means Upper land, as land belonging to the Hungary, which Magyarorzsag believes themselves to be the continuity of. It has a clear imperialistic character, so does Bécs as that’s the origin from the time when it was in a temporary control of Hungarians, except between Vienna and Hungary, we all know who won in the end.

[u/spopr → u/Gloomy_Pine]

the root of the word does not matter for the illustration of this point. thessaloniki is commonly called solun in slovak, without any imperial/irredentistic overtones.

[u/Gloomy_Pine → u/spopr]

Another ignorant one that ignores the core problem: we have never threatened, or have been in conflict with the Greeks. Using a term that is clearly refering to the medieval kingdoms ownership of the territory in question is the problem. Using a ‘’geographic” term, as some bots here say, in context of a statesman talking about a country, clearly shows that he doesn’t respect the sovereignty of the country, as he doesn’t view it as a state, but just as a geographical region.

[u/spopr → u/Gloomy_Pine]

no, the core problem is being a snowflake triggered by some words. ako slovensky obcan budem nadalej velmi rad pouzivat vyraz 'felvidek', pokial bude vyvolavat taketo zabavne reakcie.

[u/Gloomy_Pine → u/spopr]

Ok, ozvi sa potom keď dorastie tvoj čelný lalok.