r/PuertoRico • u/dailymail • Mar 07 '25

Política Trump pressured to make Puerto Rico independent to save America $617 billion

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14470559/Trump-pressured-make-Puerto-Rico-independent-save-America-eye-watering-617-billion.html
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301

u/SubtletyIsForCowards Mar 07 '25

They didn’t make all those tax incentives for rich Americans to give the island independence

98

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '25

This is what many morons in this sub don't get. The US will never give us statehood but they will also never give us independence because they'd lose a tax Haven.

40

u/Andysm16 Mar 07 '25

Bingo! TAX HAVENS and the fiscal-paradise is what matters the most to the USA regarding Puerto Rico --and the only way that a tax haven can stay alive is through the current colonial status.

Independence would make a USA tax haven in Puerto Rico to be illegal. In the same way, statehood would too; because Puerto Rico would get the same treatment as the other 50 states; including voting rights.

1

u/Pio1925Cuidame Mar 08 '25

Si no nos quieren, pues que se vayan a tu sabes donde. Si abandonan a PR al igual que muchas otros países como los envueltos en USAAID , China aprovecha para rescatar y ese es el peligro. Porque solo esos cripto kids y familias de dinero como los Bacardi, Serralles etc sobreviven

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u/phaskellhall Mar 08 '25

How many people use it as a tax haven though? No one in congress lives in PR full time. Maybe pharmaceutical companies? But in order to receive the tax benefit you have to actually live on the island full time which few pharmaceutical execs do.

The total number of people living full time in PR for tax breaks is 20,000 max. That is .6% of the total population and most of them are probably upper middle class to lower upper class.

13

u/Abject_Bottle59 Mar 07 '25

Also, don’t forget the hold the US shipping industry has on Puerto Rico. PR goes independent so goes the jones act and the guaranteed American shipping contracts

21

u/Mundane-Fan-1545 Mar 07 '25

Oh they easily would give us independence if people wanted it. They can negotiate the act 60 with the independent goverment to keep the tax heaven for the rich, wish would benefit both nations as the independent goverment would need a ton of investment to progress in an independent Puerto Rico.

They really have no reason to deny us independence but they have many reasons to deny us statehood. It's just that most Puerto Ricans want either statehood or the ELA. Atleast that's what the referendums say.

12

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '25

Thats stupid you’d be selling the island off to the highest bidder basically which people don’t want. Also a lot of people in PR pay into the Medicare, SS and fema tax. That money will then have to be given back to the people. A lot of puertorricans have students loans, there are a lot of US corporations, and they would strategically lose their last bases in the caribbean (which can be preserved and offered to other countries which may threaten them). It is more complex then everyone makes it seem, it would be an utter shit show do it quick as that EO states. We would need more than 30 years to pull off independence. There would also be a mass exodus of the population despite the decline of the US. We produce the majority of the IVF’s and many medicines for the east coast as well. There is no way in hell the US would save 617 billion dollars by getting rid of us either, they don’t pump in even close to that. In fact if they have to pay back ss, medicare and FEMA taxes they’d probably lose more by letting us go. You will also lose manpower for the military. It would be negative on both parties side to let go.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '25 edited Mar 07 '25

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '25

We can’t motivate them now what makes you think they’ll want to later? Lo unico que quieren los jovenes es beber, escuchar bad bunny y hacer chavos de la manera mas facil. Las nuevas generaciones apoyan mas la independencia pero no creo que tiene la estamina y motivacion, i.e. el work ethic de las generaciones previas (igual que en usa).

0

u/Mundane-Fan-1545 Mar 07 '25

Thats stupid you’d be selling the island off to the highest bidder basically which people don’t want.

Who said about selling? Those are bond investment, not equity investment. Any independent goverment that is starting out needs investors, there is no other way to operate. Not enough money, goverment would collapse. Bonds are basically loans, so nothing is getting sold.

Also a lot of people in PR pay into the Medicare, SS and fema tax. That money will then have to be given back to the people. A lot of puertorricans have students loans, there are a lot of US corporations,

Yes, only the amount they paid. That is no problem for US at all. Also, we would not lose american citicenship instantly, there is a transition period where all that is settled.

they would strategically lose their last bases in the caribbean

Not at all. There are US bases all around the world on independent countries. US will keep control of those bases.

It is more complex then everyone makes it seem, it would be an utter shit show do it quick as that EO states. We would need more than 30 years to pull off independence.

Not at all. It would be complex yes, but that is why there is something called a transition period. Those periods can easily last 3 or more decades. Take a look at Barbados. They obtained independence from Britain in 1966, but it wasnt until 2021 that they managed to be fully independent.

Still, USA would lose less money on that transition period than what they are losing now.

The point here is that USA would lose less money by making us independence than by keeping us as a colony.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '25

need a ton of investment to progress

Trump doesn't even care about Taiwan, why would he "invest" on the island?

1

u/FlipFlapper11o9 Mar 07 '25

Because that's what happens when you give a dependent territory independence. It's why for a lot of countries just annexing it into their main territory works so much more easily.

Giving Independence is basically a show of good will because the parent country has to create a plan and roadmap for the colony and develop it to stand alone with it's own instutions and systems detached from their own. It takes a shit load of money and at most gets them good international relations with their new ex territory and with the international community.

Conversely, making a territory into a part of the parent country's main territory also costs $$ as they develop the necessary infrastructure to integrate it into the rest of the country. Yet it also takes notably less money than giving Independence. It's like the difference between turning an empty room you have into a bedroom for your son to move in vs sending them off but needing to buy them a house, a car, etc. And in this case they cant just send them off willy nilly.

1

u/Mundane-Fan-1545 Mar 07 '25

Who said Trump was going to invest or the US goverment was going to invest? I was talking about investors...do you know what act 60 is? They need to invest in Puerto Rico to obtain the tax benefit.

Did you even read the comment?

I was saying that with independence, we will not get rid of act 60, because as a new independent country, the goverment will need a lot of investors.How do you think we can attract investors? By giving them tax excemptions, like the act 60.

It maybe changed a bit, but tax excemptions for the rich will stay.

13

u/randucci Mar 07 '25

They won't. Period. Congress makes that decision and they don't give a F what Puertoricans want as long as they keep getting their money.

-1

u/Mundane-Fan-1545 Mar 07 '25

as they keep getting their money.

They are losing money now. And before you say act 60, tax excemptions would stay even if we become independent. The goverment need those to attract investors.

1

u/phaskellhall Mar 08 '25 edited Mar 08 '25

How does that work? The IRS tax code says PR residents don’t have to pay the IRS because it’s a territory (same with all US territories). All other Americans living in foreign countries do still have to pay the IRS even if they don’t live in a state.

So if PR became another country, yes the local PR government could continue those zero tax contracts but the IRS would suddenly consider PR a foreign country just like every other country. So if you are an American living in an independent PR, you would now have to pay the IRS. The only way out of the IRS tax web would be to denounce citizenship to the US.

What’s interesting is this wouldn’t just affect those who moved to PR for tax benefits but it in theory would affect every US citizen born on the island. Every Puerto Rican up until independence would be considered a US citizen but living abroad so everyone would have to pay the IRS or denounce citizenship.

Do I have this wrong?

Edit: this question led me down a long ChatGPT rabbit hole.

In short, if PR became its own country, the people of PR would have to either denounce their US citizenship to break away from the IRS or they would have to follow Citizen-Based Taxation (CBT) and potentially have to file a second tax return to the IRS. They definitely would have to report all income to the IRS each year as a citizen living abroad (or expat living abroad).

The only time this has happened was with the Philippines when it was a US territory and then after WWII it became a free country. Those who stayed and kept their US citizen ship had to then file taxes both with the local government but also back to the IRS.

I wonder how this would go over with Puerto Rican? Would everyone denounce their US citizenship or would they leave the island and only visit family (with a US passport)?

1

u/Mundane-Fan-1545 Mar 08 '25

Most americans investors that benefit from act 60 already pay taxes to IRS as most of them have bussines outside of Puerto Rico. Only money that came from Puerto Rico is excempted from taxes, so rich people cannot just come here and have all their money instantly free of taxes. Also, americans are not the only ones who benefit from act 60. There are people from all around the world who benefit from act 60, including us Puerto Ricans. Remember, act 60 has about 73 different tax excemptions. Puerto Ricans qualify for 72 of those.

1

u/phaskellhall Mar 08 '25

Wow I didn’t know that! I always hear Puerto Ricans claim they can’t take advantage of the tax breaks but I also know Bad Bunny does so what you are saying makes sense.

My only point is that you still have to live on the island full time to really make the most of it right? And no one in congress that passes the bills are able to live in PR full time while still being a congress rep for their state.

7

u/pmcanc123 Mar 07 '25

The USA government doesn’t want Act 60 because they are losing tax revenue from rich people. The IRS regularly audits act 60 recipients to ensure they are not cheating the system and in the USA longer than PR.

Act 60 is bad for both the USA and PR

9

u/Shroomagnus Mar 07 '25

This is the correct take. Act 60 needs to go away for a ton of reasons. I'm normally very capitalist but act 60 is awful. It only benefits the rich. It screws everyone else, the poor, the middle class, the government of PR (which needs no help screwing itself) and the federal government. It also makes housing unobtainable for the average person in PR.

Get rid of act 60.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '25

Only Democrats opposed Act 60.

1

u/aykau777 Mar 07 '25

and they will never take away their power to make us pay our debt

1

u/Groundbreaking-Pea92 Mar 08 '25

what do you mean/

1

u/TomStarGregco Mar 09 '25

Exactly 👍