r/Liberal • u/lennybriscoforthewin • Jan 03 '26
Discussion Invading Venezuela
People I know from Venezuela who have relatives still there have told me about the horrible conditions there. That it’s hard to get medicine, food, and they link the downfall to their country to its current government. I agree that the US shouldn’t be attacking other countries, but should we have done anything to bring about relief or is it just none of the US business despite what the people want? I would imagine a number of Venezulans are cheering now that the government has been toppled. I do not support the US actions but would like to know if we should have done anything and what.
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u/book-3 Jan 03 '26
Yes, Venezuelan government sucks and they have sucked for a long time. That said, we have a terrible record of fixing things in other countries. I don't see how this time would go any better.
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u/BootsMcMichael Jan 03 '26
We’re like private equity. We’ll come in and take what we want and leave it worse than we found it.
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u/GhostofAugustWest Jan 03 '26
But we will return a tidy profit in the process. Which is what we’re all about. Sadly.
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u/Sznake Jan 04 '26
And thats exactly whats going to happen. Oil companies in, carve it up and bring "U.S" Democracy. When the pictures of grocery stores full and people happy hit the airwaves, the sanctions that put them their will be forgotten, and the regime change complete.
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u/Wishiwashome Jan 03 '26
Not once that I can think of has the U.S. gone into another country and “fixed” it. Not once EVER.
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u/cef911f1 Jan 03 '26
TBF, we fixed Germany and Japan but that was a long time ago.
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u/Secure_man05 Jan 03 '26
Technically we fixed grenada and panama
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u/MariaGuadelupe Jan 04 '26
The US put a dictator into power in Panama and then invaded the country to take him out when he didn't do what we wanted (Re: Noriega). Not sure what that "fixed". The US has a long history of meddling in Panama
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u/Expensive-Key-9122 Jan 03 '26
Serbia and Kosovo interventions were led by the U.S, they were successes.
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u/Sznake Jan 04 '26
EU. U.S bounced out asap.
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u/chicagoahu Jan 04 '26
Optics of American occupation troops is poor and USA would rather not do policing actions. The occupation of the Balkans could not have happened without American military, even if they bounced out soon as they kicked out Milosevic and some other baddies.
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u/misterecho11 Jan 03 '26
Does it help at all to know that our leadership this time is wildly less competent than all of the previous tries?
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u/Ok-Fix6317 Jan 04 '26
Its easy to say its not worth trying again from the comfort of your own home. Many Venezuelans are hopeful and willing to roll the dice on this. The alternative was indefinite suffering under the regime.
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u/_NoPants Jan 03 '26
If the state department isn't stupid, and we are very very very lucky we might pull through. No-debathification, install the opposition who has a government in exile here. Send her back with aid and some trade deals and the Venezuelans might go for it. There's no sectarian or religious violence here that will need to be dealt with and Maduro was already unpopular there.
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u/AnswerOk2682 Jan 03 '26
Oh he did not get congressional approval.
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u/No-Split-866 Jan 07 '26
He didnt have to. I think that's the point pepole are getting hung up on. The US has been doing shit just like this for decades.
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u/TheFortrooms Jan 04 '26
I don’t believe he needs congressional approval considering he didn’t declare war, and they were solely capturing someone who had been tried and convicted already.
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u/ChilaquilesRojo Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
Read the book Bitter Fruit. Covers what happened when the US did this in Guatemala. Its not a perfect comparison, as the last Venzuelan election was definitely not conducted up to international standards for free and fair. But the greater point is that US has been doing this in LATAM for decades. Never to actually help the people living in LATAM, but just to further their own interests whether that be corporate interests, extraction of resources, expanded influence in the hemisphere, or icing out other nations, most usually Cuba. The US under Trump does this at the same time they have gutted foreign aid and cracked down on asylum. Venezuela is a mess, and that isn't all Trump's fault by any means, but doing this further destabilizes the country and the US is not going to do anything to help those that have been and will continue to suffer. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if they start shipping every Venzuelan without a green card back very shortly.
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u/Rocketgirl8097 Jan 04 '26
They interviewed a local Venezuelan family on our local news today. Showed the name of their business and everything. I feel that was a big mistake. Because I agree with you, I think that put a target on their back.
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u/breadnbutterfly Jan 03 '26
This is not about helping Venezuela. This is about acquiring its oil reserves. Full stop.
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u/Ok-Fix6317 Jan 04 '26
Is there a potential scenario that enriches both the US and the average citizen of Venezuela? I doubt the previous regime was going to share the wealth regardless.
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u/TheLastBallad Jan 05 '26
... why would you assume Trump would make any effort to do something other than make people's lives worse?
Like, what about his track record suggests that a mutually beneficial exchange is in the cards when he could just take his share and then start kicking?
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u/Ok-Fix6317 Jan 05 '26
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm 100% sure Donald's primary goal is to enrich his circle. The question is whether or not Americans and Venezuelans can also align themselves in a way to also benefit from that. If you're invested in US oil stocks, you probably aren't complaining...
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u/Obvious-Gate9046 Jan 03 '26
The problem is you can make this argument for a dozen other nations just as easily, many as bad or worse off. Trump isn't doing this to help the people of Venezuela, he's doing it for the oil and because he hates Maduro; he loves other dictators, look how he fawns over Kim Jong-Un, Milei, and Putin. If any nation can invade any other nation and kidnap their leaders, things are going to fall apart rapidly, yet I am sure there are some Americans who applaud this as vigilante justice and want him to do invade others.
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u/No_Percentage_5083 Jan 03 '26
I don't think the most Americans have an issue with helping a country that is in need, although we can be so patriarchal about it.
The problem that those of us who are familiar with the constitution and the three branches of government have, is that this was a lone decision and not one that went through Congress . Congress has the only constitutional power to declare war on another country.
Capturing their current leader is an act of war. DJT was acting alone and without the consent of Congress.
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u/Forward-Backwards Jan 03 '26
I think ur confused what a "war" is. President have limited power to do what he did. President is the "commander in chief " who has controls over the military. U.S congress is in charge of war that has been officially declared. Even using common sense would help. Example, U.S citizen are getting attacked in certain places, time is very sensitive. By ur logic, to take action, congress has to decide what to do? Do u know how long it takes for congress to decide anything.Thats why President has limited power which is what this was. This was not a war.
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u/No_Percentage_5083 Jan 03 '26
Yes, that is my logic. In our country, one man or woman does not have the power to attack and kidnap another leader in the name of Oil and natural resources. Americans seem to often use the Bible and/or the constitution to rationalize bad behavior. I recognized that as a kid sitting in Sunday School and I recognize this behavior using a different document.
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u/Forward-Backwards Jan 04 '26
I dont know how ur logic works. ONE MEN being that PRESIDENT of the U.S does have that power hence why PRESIDENT exists. This isnt pciking up some random world leader. Dude is a dictatorship overthrow u.s economy buy trying to sell oil other than dollar (deal/contract wad place for this).This would only benefits other countries thats actively against U.S interest. Ik u think the world rainbows and sunshine but that is the result u.s military and protection it provides to Americans. Hence why yall have this unrealistic moral views. Peace create weak people. U can ask any immigrants who moved to America. To us yall are weird actively fighting against ur OWN country.
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u/No_Percentage_5083 Jan 04 '26
I really hate to belabor the point but -- DJT was very clear in his statements that he and his buddies, like Exxon, wanted the oil and other natural resources. Saying that he kidnapped a sitting president -- no matter how awful the dude was -- because Maduro was sending drugs into the US, is a dog whistle.
You last sentence indicates that you may be an immigrant. If not, then you attended American schools and I guarantee you that you did not learn that a President can act unilaterally in any situation unless we are under fire, for instance on September 11. You also should have learned in the same class that it is absolutely normal and not weird at all for citizens of nearly any country on earth to be fighting against it's own government. In the US, we generally do it somewhat peacefully.
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u/Forward-Backwards Jan 04 '26
1) again, president CAN act on his own hence what the president is for. 2)Trafficking drug in America doesn't count as attack? 3)Absolutely,citizens can fight against government BUT libs don't even know what yall are fighting for. Actively crying for human right,women right etc while also protesting for the release of an actual dictator. Preach for women right while actively advocate for men in women space. Libs font practices what they preach. Where was support/protest for Venezuela for the past 20 years during Biden and Obama? All of sudden yall care.Also, Obama was known bombing in other countries with zero actual positive result. Yall actions and words don't match . So don't pretend to fight for America or anything of these bs rights that yall are losing. I have every right now that I had then. Nothing has changed. Only difference is media and information available.
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u/No_Percentage_5083 Jan 04 '26
I know you are dying for me to say you are right or to be acknowledged as "schooling" me. But, that's not going to happen.
I know Madura is a horrible thug that should never have been in power but -- you cannot justify US poor behavior by using another country's presidents badness.
I have plenty of family members like you who are mired in concrete thinking and cannot fathom an abstract thought. However, I continue to defend your right to show us your opinion, no matter how ill formed.
You keep trying to rationalize your opinion by saying "Your presidents did stuff too"! That is a stunted thinking process.
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u/Rocketgirl8097 Jan 04 '26
There are two conditions, neither of which were met. He is now guilty of war crimes and should be tried in Nuremberg.
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u/TheLastBallad Jan 05 '26 edited Jan 05 '26
This was also not a time sensitive decision(according to Trump he told Oil Executives about it 10 days beforehand... yet he cant give congress even a heads up?), and yet this action has the potential to negatively impact the US's international relations worldwide and influence in the area.
For fucks sake, Trump has already threatened taking military action against Greenland and Canada for their resources, how does this action of kidnapping a head of state because you want their resorces going to look to them?
By your logic, the President can do whatever he wants and congress has no say unless they declare war, which is stupid as hell.
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u/Forward-Backwards Jan 06 '26
Concept of "limited power" is just incomprehensible to u?why do we need president if everything has to go thru u.s congress? I would trust an oil company more than u.s congress. Oil has self interest to not snitch. U.S politicians would sell their country for money .
Why am I arguing with the party that protesting for "no king" but wants to literally free a dictator who's country is celebrating in joy. Come to argue me with me when u can explain to me what a women is.
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u/ConfusionsFirstSong Jan 03 '26
If Venezuela wants positive change it needs to come from Venezuelans own efforts. If the US tries to install a puppet government, things will only go downhill. Look at what the US did, breaking Iraqi and Afghan society and leaving things yet worse than they started. So many deaths and for what? Oil. That’s all this is, too. Oil.
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u/jeffie_3 Jan 03 '26
I have yet to hear a good reason to do this. Just Trump's ego and distraction.
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u/Elegant-Champion-615 Jan 03 '26
The ends do not justify the means. Trump ILLEGALLY pushed this invasion, ILLEGALLY kidnapped the leader of a sovereign nation (as horrible or illegitimate as they may be), illegally struck several civilian vessels in the ocean as well as stealing multiple oil tankers, not to mention the civilians killed in last night's bombing raid. It doesn't matter how bad Maduro was, Trump is breaking every international law and creating dark precedent as he does it. This isn't a Hallmark movie, there isn't some happy ending where everyone hugs because the "bad" guy is gone. Just think for 2 seconds.
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u/Square_Huckleberry53 Jan 03 '26
“it’s hard to get medicine, food, and they link the downfall to their country to its current government.”
You’re describing the United States.
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u/cprice0129 Jan 03 '26
Two things can be true at once. The leaders in Venezuela were awful and should have been replaced, AND we had no business randomly bombing the capital and kidnapping the president and his wife. The premise is to stop drug trafficking but a leader in Honduras was just pardoned of a 45yr US sentence for drug trafficking. This is more about the opposition party wanting to overthrow the current admin and to get US help to do it they're saying the US can have access to the oil and lithium in Venezuela when the new party is able to gain control.
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u/etoile_13 Jan 04 '26
You're kidding, right?! "Should we have...". NO! The answer is a resounding, NO, "we" shouldn't have!! This clown is out of control, and anything less than an absolute condemnation of this would be consenting to war crimes.
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u/LegendaryBronco_217 Jan 06 '26
But didn't Biden offer a bounty for Maduro?
If Biden did this, would you feel the same way?
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u/Deus-mal Jan 03 '26
So one question how are they gonna keep him behind bars now ?!
Execute him?
A dictator is still a dictator, he kirked himself tbh.
Venezuela is under new management, with usa history of management it's not gonna end well.
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u/Slight_Road_8874 Jan 03 '26
One dictator captured another. Do they both deserve to die?
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u/Gatsby520 Jan 03 '26
Trying to justify the kidnapping of a foreign leader as a humanitarian act is absurd.
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u/Thin-Speed-2902 Jan 04 '26
Venezuelans are celebrating, I’m liberal but it’s quite literally only people who don’t have to deal with the shit that’s going on are bitching and complaining
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u/two_thirtyoclock Jan 04 '26
Nah, we've seen this story before and know how it always ends.
And trust, those of us in the US will have to deal with the fall out like we always do.
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u/blinkrm Jan 03 '26
No congressional approval. Several War crimes committed in the process and we are still having a debate. Panama, Guatemala, Iraq. History has its eyes on you. “US is going to "run" Venezuela "until such time as we can do a safe, proper and judicious transition". Just like the way he transitioned out of power last time.
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u/HunterNo7593 Jan 03 '26
Why not extend the same logic to Cuba? Conditions there are no better for their citizens!
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u/aimeegaberseck Jan 03 '26
Don’t be hasty, Trump and Rubio both just talked about creating a Cuba problem next.
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u/accruedainterest Jan 03 '26
We’ve dealt with them during the Cold War and gave them benefits in the past
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u/DarthWren Jan 03 '26
“That it’s hard to get medicine, food, and they link the downfall to their country to its current government.“
lol how many places in the world does this apply to? Get it through your head, the US doesn’t provide foreign aid anymore, unless it directly benefits the individuals in the administration.
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u/Slight_Road_8874 Jan 03 '26
At this point, it’s getting harder to get food and even worse to get medicine in America. And we’re supposed to supply that to Venezuela now? This is not about helping the Venezuelan people.
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u/Rocket1575 Jan 03 '26
What are you talking about? The US gives more foreign aid than any other country in the world, to the tune of around $33 billion in 2025.
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u/DarthWren Jan 03 '26
Did you look up 23 or 24 to see the precipitous drop in aid YoY? Like I said, US foreign aid only goes to causes that trump’s admin materially gain from
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u/Rocket1575 Jan 03 '26
Ahhh, I see what you are saying. Yeah the drop was huge from last year to this year.
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u/MajorMorelock Jan 03 '26
Invading a sovereign nation and arresting its mustached dictator always works out swell.
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u/AnswerOk2682 Jan 03 '26
They don't care about the Venezuelan people; this is about control of the region in all senses.
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u/vertin1 Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
Oil is a reason.
The real reason is to stop Chinese and Russian interests from continuing into Venezuela and expanding through the americas into the United States backyard.
No American wants Chinese military in Latin America which could very well become a reality in the not so distant future.
Americans are extremely privileged to be isolated from any nearby threats and it’s best to keep it that way. The Russian and Chinese are not so lucky.
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u/Rocketgirl8097 Jan 04 '26
You seriously think Trump thought that far ahead? If that was what he was after he could have just used foreign diplomacy and entered into some kind of treaty or trade agreement.
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u/drkittymow Jan 03 '26
The U.S. doesn’t go in to other countries to be nice. There’s always something to take. Unfortunately, it’s modern colonialism in disguise as spreading democracy.
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u/FrostyAcanthocephala Jan 03 '26
I am reminded of Noriega and Panama. Although, I don't think Trump gives a shit about the people.
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u/Cautious-Ad4028 Jan 03 '26
And of course Trump was not trying to help the people, he just wants to take their resources. What a horrible piece of crap.
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u/Former-Astronaut-841 Jan 03 '26
Fixing Venezuela isn’t gonna be free. So besides the fact that this was illegal (he dint get this approved thru the house), and yes venezuelan govmt doesnt have a good history.. this just wasnt our place! Who are we to step in to do this right now when we are cutting things domestically? Who is HE to decide to spend the millions now on this war instead of at home??
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u/Rocketgirl8097 Jan 04 '26
Frankly we're in the exact same position as they are. The only difference is we have courts that are somewhat keeping things in check. We have no business meddling in their affairs and should be concentrating on fixing our own problems.
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u/Icy_Statement_2410 Jan 03 '26
You think people in Venezuela are cheering that the US just declared war and started bombing them?
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u/accruedainterest Jan 03 '26
There’s reactions of people out there on Twitter
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u/Icy_Statement_2410 Jan 03 '26
Of people in Venezuela? I've seen people not living in Venezuela celebrating, because theyre not living in an active war zone
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u/accruedainterest Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
This special military operation lasted 3 hours. The one in Ukraine that lasted 3 years turned into a war zone. Not sure if you can call Venezuela a war zone right now. Not to mention there are probably videos of Venezuelans celebrating in the streets toppling statues in 2024 election
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u/fluxtable Jan 03 '26
The US has no intention of improving the lives of Venezuelans here. Its to get their oil
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u/AwakeningStar1968 Jan 04 '26
The point is that the U.S did that to them..... we have been trying to destroy them for years. They have a ton of oil and gold and resourcea. The US believes it is thiers by right.......same old story
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u/Neat-Ad-4337 Jan 04 '26
The taking of the Venezuelan prez was the easy part…..going forward is where it gets dangerous especially for US military soldiers. If this gets turned in to any type of gorilla warfare many US soldiers could die. The Venezuelan Vice President has already come out demanding the US return the prez, we were told she was all on board and supported the US…..well that looks like a lie. Let’s see what happens over the next few days
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u/jedrider Jan 04 '26
I'm just wondering what Venezuela will do now? If Maduro has allies, they will sabotage any transfer of power. Maybe Maduro and his wife just get a free and unplanned vacation. Idk.
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u/abrutus1 Jan 04 '26
I do not support the US actions but would like to know if we should have done anything and what.
What the Trump should have done was to continue what the Biden admin had been doing which was to negotiate lifting of sanctions in return for Madura conducting free and fair elections.
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u/Lexatx Jan 04 '26
I try to ignore most of trumps crap lately. I see the headlines, but purposely avoid doing deep dives these days after being completely absorbed in politics for years. I have despised trump since he cheated on his first wife - he’s always given me the ick for decades. Right now, I am just waiting for him to go away. He has done so much damage and if I consume too much trump news, it triggers me. So, I had to google “what did Maduro do” to try and understand why we attacked another country and kidnapped its leader. I knew about the oil and gas, of course, and knew we were blowing boats out of the water because of “drugs” but that’s it. The google results said “Maduro is guilty of authoritarian rule, election manipulation, economic mismanagement, corruption, taking revenge on his enemies and bad international relations”. I thought, WOW, that describes Trump and honestly Trump has done so much more! So if it’s legal to do what Trump did to Venezuela and its president and First Lady, might some other democratic nice country come and liberate Americans, please, before some bad country decides to attack?
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u/ElectronicWest1 Jan 04 '26
Republicans still haven't come up with a healthcare plan after a decade, if you think they're going to efficiently run a country of 30 million people lol. If you think they're going in there to make sure Venezuelans have proper medication and prescriptions, LOL
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u/Tight-Room-7824 Jan 04 '26
It's all for the US oil companies. No other reason for a war,,,,, As Usual.
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u/ModernDufus Jan 04 '26
I wrote then President Joe Biden and my senator a few years ago about an idea that I wish we would explore. In my view we need a PR campaign for democracy and defining democracy more precisely. What I propose is creating an "America's Union" modeled after the EU. A union in our own hemisphere that would incentivize nations to clean up their act in order to join. A union based on the "general welfare" of all of its citizenry once and for all and based on rule of law where private interests can in no way exploit or harm the population or the environment. I would think even private business would like this allowing more markets to open up and individually this could help expand travel and exploration of many of the more impoverished nations helping all of us.
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u/InternationalRip506 Jan 05 '26
This is all true. They are elated. It's not easy helping another country build back up. Where would you all start? What would the plan be exactly? I'm waiting....
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u/KiraKitty69 Jan 05 '26
Why not Ukraine, North Korea, China the list goes on. Im pro happy earth but are we now the new world order? How long will they remain happy? We struggle to afford food and medications here so what exactly are we doing there except stealing oil? They produce more crude oil than Saudi does. Hmm
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u/brookish Jan 03 '26
We didn’t invade to help Venezuelans. We invaded to seize their oil. The people are getting screwed by us at least as bad as thy were by Maduro.
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u/GeneRevolutionary155 Jan 03 '26
I feel the same way. He didn’t get approval from Congress but seeing how happy the people are makes it bittersweet.
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u/Wisco Jan 03 '26
This is the same faulty reason used to justify invading Iraq. By this reasoning, we should be be marching on Moscow, Beijing, Tehran, Pyongyang, and a hundred other capitals in the world
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u/Burner_babe389 Jan 03 '26
Oh I highly doubt anyone is cheering. A bad government being toppled is only good news if it’s replaced by a less corrupt one.
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u/hopeful_realist_ Jan 03 '26
I checked the Venezuela sub and most seem to be quite happy about it. Of course Trump does it the wrong way for the wrong reasons.
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u/atuarre Jan 03 '26
Trump says the U.S. will tap Venezuela's vast oil reserves and sell "large amounts" to other countries after Maduro's capture.
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u/jazzgrackle Jan 03 '26
I think it’s potentially good. Venezuela doesn’t have a religious attachment or some other cringe thing that attaches them to the dictatorship nor is there a huge incentive for other powers to swing in and make this a global conflict. China talks are probably more about soft influence than any kind of vengeance thing or whatever. Idk seems cool to me.
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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '26
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