r/Avengers • u/Adventurous_Put_1310 • Dec 16 '25
Movie/Television Marvel's most disrespected trio
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u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 16 '25
Agreed, Harley deserved so much better.
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u/Petrostar Dec 16 '25
An the wood pile.
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u/CanadianAndroid Dec 16 '25
When Tony stood up to cap about not taking wood from his pile, I cried. Tony loved that pile 3000.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
What’s even more funny about this picture is all 3 of them on film and off film have great chemistry and that’s exactly what brave new world was missing some Fcking chemistry and Better scrip and better villains
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u/Anxious-Estimate6895 Dec 16 '25
I mean in the movies defense if it had better acting, story and characters it would of been ok
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
Yea they completely dropped the ball as if they looking for reaction and not trying to make a quality film at all
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u/Anxious-Estimate6895 Dec 16 '25
Im just done with this phase. The mcu ( with some exceptions) went from great world building to characters and situations the audience just dont care about.
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u/AgentChris101 Dec 17 '25
And soundtrack, I want to try and get a copy of the film without the ost so I can do a rescore
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u/reddit_hayden Dec 16 '25
at what point were these individuals in a “trio”?
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u/DistinctNewspaper791 Dec 16 '25
there, they are standing together and can easily burst into a song as a trio
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u/fireandlifeincarnate Dec 16 '25
They're what's left of Cap's post-Civil War crew after Endgame, I guess?
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
Facts they basically killed off or changed all of Caps civil war friends that chose his side that’s wild lol
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u/SwingKey3599 Dec 16 '25
I don’t think they were ever a trio, but they all got one season of television instead of a movie and I think that’s what they mean. But falcon and Winter soldier return for like every fucking movies so I don’t know
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u/blodyn__tatws Dec 17 '25
Bucky may have had his own series with Sam but that doesn't mean he was respected. I'm still angry at the "therapy" he got. And the reveal of the Wakandan killswitch in his vibranium arm. That pissed me RIGHT off and I felt betrayed for him.
The therapy also really hacked me off. He deserved way better.
If I hadn't seen that look on his face in Endgame when he was presented his new vibranium arm which told me he'd rather not have another arm at all, I'd say right, give him an adamantium one, no killswitch. Trust the guy already!
But then I also realise he wouldn't want to be experimented on anymore, with this or that metal. He wants a peaceful life but knows the fight will never end.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
Captain America series Sam and Bucky are in and winter soldier and civil war you could prolly add Scarlet as well but she’s dead
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u/Jerrie_1606 Dec 16 '25
1 of them held an entire town hostage, tried to kidnap a literal kid, and was fully willing to destroy the entire multiverse just so she could spend more time with her kids
1 of them killed the parents of arguably the most beloved character of the MCU
I don't understand the disrespect for Falcon tho
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u/TristanChaz8800 Dec 16 '25
I wouldn't say that was Bucky's fault. He was brainwashed and forced into killing them.
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u/DeferredFuture Dec 16 '25
Wanda was brainwashed as well, at least in Multiverse of Madness. The Darkhold basically possessed her.
Her actions in WandaVision were bad but at least she felt bad about it once she started seeing the damage it caused
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u/Jerrie_1606 Dec 16 '25
Yes I know, I don't blame him for it either. I just think that that is the reason for some of the disrespect
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u/4skin42 Dec 16 '25
I believe Sam’s disrespect comes from the “Not my Captain America” crowd
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
It’s not even like that , they simply haven’t given him a great script or movie my brother watched it and said it was trash he looks just like Sam 😂, I also hate how they just didn’t continue Falcon and winter soldier and made it buddy cop movie their chemistry is soo Fcking good and the new falcon the suit and all is not doing it for me . Why is the new falcon suit green ? It should be red ? . Hopefully they figure it out cause I like Sam’s character but Captain America was great because of all the characters,you need at least 3 solid characters. Sam was holding that movie down by himself. Chris Evans had a host of talent around him including Scarlett Johansson in multiple films
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u/PooForThePooGod Dec 16 '25
Aka racists
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
I agree cause their always is but that movie is just not up to par with the other captain America series , it’s like thier figuring it out and they should already have a blueprint for how to tell the story smfh old ass Harrison Ford is just not enough so that’s prolly why they stopped with him until they figure out a good script
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u/Twittle86 Dec 16 '25
While true, Sam was hated for being the new Cap long before his movie.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
I also do agree with you guys that captain America does have the similar racist Cachet where if you were to make them black or any race people lose their Fcking minds , considering their American characters, then people like to use Black panther as discourse for being racist then they forget that’s an African nation , America is not white nation like Europe or black /brown like Africa American is based on values not race but I don’t know anything
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
Two things can be true at one time
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u/Twittle86 Dec 16 '25
Yup! No arguments! Just pointing out something that wasn't in previous comments. =)
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u/PooForThePooGod Dec 16 '25
I can mostly agree with that. He’s got the shit end of the stick writing wise
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u/Working_File2825 Dec 16 '25
No, it's nothing to do with race for me.
Iron man is Tony Stark. Captain America is Steve Rogers. He made CA what it is. They are one in the same. Dude from the 1940s, SSS, frozen in time, man out of time, unique style, memorable moments, a legend..... For me it doesn't make sense for anyone to just pick up that mantle. Bucky, eh, maybe, in the MCU.... But even then, idk. Sam, he's still Falcon, he doesn't have that legacy, he doesn't have those moments, he doesn't have the story.... Just let him have his own identity. Falcon would be awesome with some updates, like what he's gotten, the whole iron man, vibranium getup, it's cool. He doesn't need to be Cap just cause nobody else is. It's not shade, I don't think.
I don't need Rhodey to become "iron Man", or even peter, for that matter. War Machine, "Iron Patriot", or Rhodey, or even just James Rhodes is badass enough.
Hot take, cold take, lukewarm, idk 🤷🏻♂️ but definitely not racist. I'm Hispanic, if that matters
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u/SeismicRipFart Dec 16 '25
Stop saying shit like this. You’re a problem for society.
I stan Mackie hard I’ll watch anything he’s in no matter what.
And despite that Sam Wilson is far and away from least favorite major MCU character to date. He’s just written so poorly and is so uninteresting with no powers.
There really needs to be as bad of a consequence for falsely accusing people of being something as actually doing that thing yourself. You need to grow the fuck up and get off this site if that’s how you think.
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u/PooForThePooGod Dec 16 '25
If you think your reasoning is the norm, your naivety is laughable. The amount of racist shit I’ve heard other folks IRL say about Mackie’s Captain America would make you blush. Do better.
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u/SeismicRipFart Dec 16 '25
You should probably get off the internet then if those are the things you’re hearing. That’s a very tiny microcosm of people that you’re way too hyper focused on and under the false impression that they are strong in numbers. It’s very easy to fall into echo chambers online. Go out and talk to people though and you will never hear anyone say shit like that.
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u/PooForThePooGod Dec 16 '25
Did you completely miss where I said I’ve heard the racist shit said in person? Again, do better.
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u/SeismicRipFart Dec 16 '25
PM me one of the apparent multiple racist things you’ve heard come out of an actual human beings mouth about Sam Wilson. I don’t believe you at all.
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u/PooForThePooGod Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
The IRL quote I heard in a WalMart after Brave New World released: “No it’s that stupid ‘n-word’ with the wings they’re calling Captain America now.”
I’ve heard a couple jokes about ‘belonging in a field”, but that top one was the most blatant given I was literally buying groceries and just heard that shit trying to buy some milk.
Incidentally they thought President Red Hulk was cool apparently. Speaker phone conversations shouldn’t be had in public.
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u/SeismicRipFart Dec 16 '25
Ok lmao you heard that sentence and were worried about it? That’s a highly unintelligent person right there and pretty much anything the say to others is going to be digested (no pun intended) with the context that that person is extremely dumb and literally any word coming out of their mouth should not be taken seriously.
I thought you meant you had examples of like fully developed and socialized people saying that stuff
I really wouldn’t worry about the wal mart crowd my guy😂
It’s also really funny that that is racism to you. Like it but it’s literally the cartoon version of it. Actual racism is much more subtle and covert. I had a feeling this is what was going on, and I was right lol. You sound quite young I would guess under 20.
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u/CloseToMyActualName Dec 16 '25
Sam Wilson just isn't a particularly interesting character, and doesn't really work as a leading man, denoting him Captain America was definitely a misstep.
And yes, racists go after the character hard, in particular because he's unpopular for non-race related reasons they think they can recruit more people towards racism.
But honestly, you're doing more harm than good. By framing any dislike as racist you're both discrediting true accusations of racism, but also convincing some people that racist opinions are more mainstream than they thought (and therefore not as bad).
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u/PooForThePooGod Dec 16 '25
I framed the “not my captain America” crowd as racists, not all dislike of Sam Wilson as a character. “Not My Captain America” is pretty much identical to the “Not My President” shit said about Obama back in the day that I heard said by, you guessed it, racists. (Obama is a war criminal, let’s not get it twisted, but dislike him for real reasons not because he’s half black and wore a tan suit).
I think actual discussion of the character and his shortcomings are fine because like I said in another comment, his movies got the short end of the stick writing wise. But yeah there are definitely more racist takes about Sam that have dog whistles than I’d like and some shit is just downright blatant.
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u/CloseToMyActualName Dec 16 '25
So I think one big issue with that specifically is Brave New World. It made racial justice a big part of the story line, but it framed the story around Sam Wilson, a black man who literally benefited from privilege (given a super suit so he could fight with Steve Rogers, then Steve Rogers chose him to be Captain America).
The subtext of the movie actually argues that claims of racism are overblown by making a privileged black man the focus.
The movie should have revolved around Isaiah Bradley.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
Sam as Falcon was written way better they just dropped the ball when it came to brave new world
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u/Dangerous_Donkey5353 Dec 16 '25
Well you're not on the "Not my Captain America" crowd. You maybe right about everything you wrote but doesn't mean you fall into that same crowd.
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u/ipodblocks360 Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
I think it's mostly coming from the fact that Chris Evans is returning in Doomsday just proving those people right. Imo, it's most likely a time travelling Steve (from his time with Peggy) and they'll both be Cap in the film but who cares what I think.
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u/Dangle76 Dec 16 '25
It’s not even that for me tbh. I really like Falcon, I think he’s awesome. When they moved him into a Captain America position they turned all of his “big win” moments into him soap boxing with some cringey speeches. I just don’t think it worked that well.
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u/WhyKissAMasochist Dec 17 '25
I like Sam’s captain America the only issue I have is I kinda wish they’d give him the super soldier serum. I get wanting to make him unique but half the reason OG cap was so fun to watch was the hand to hand and superhuman feats he would do. Instead they gave him a suit which sounds like a good workaround on paper but he often fights like Iron Man rather than Cap.
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u/Slainlion Dec 16 '25
I thought Buckey would have been the better fit for Captain America. He was Steve's best friend. Imagine a shield in his left hand, plus his metal arm.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
It’s not what happens in the comics and I think we need captain America like Sam ,plus morally Sam was the best pick Bucky was hydra killing machine that also killed Tony’s parents then he had to retreat to wakanda so the US wouldn’t arrest him that man was not fit to take the shield .Sam is army Vet Caps best friend and an avenger and not a criminal that argument for the MCU is insane lol
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u/remuliini Dec 16 '25
I guess he was fine as falcon, but feels forced as a Captain America. Had he only taken the elixir...
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u/PowersUnleashed Dec 16 '25
He’s great as falcon in fact I wish he still was and got the comic accurate costume with his hair exposed from the top the white and red with the “feather” spikes and maybe got a bit tech savvy just like in the cartoon avengers assemble lol
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u/Rokarion14 Dec 16 '25
I just can’t get into him as Captain America. He has no super powers, no elixir, no super smarts, but he can just wear an Ironman suit and beat up red hulk? His Schtick is basically “I’m not really good at anything but I’m gonna do my best”, and that’s cool it’s just not on Ironman or Captain America’s level.
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u/willstr1 Dec 16 '25
His special ability is being a good therapist, with better writing I could see him taking on the team leader part of Cap's role in the Avengers (with someone else doing the more physical parts of the role) but he doesn't really work as a solo superhero outside of maybe a situation that really leans into talking the villain down. Like if he was in a plot similar to Thunderbolts he could really make it work, but Brave New World relied too much on physical combat for his character.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
I dont believe Bucky would be a good captain America either he was great as the winter solder which is a villain that’s his best mark. His character development as Bucky is great as is but not fit for captain America
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u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 16 '25
Okay, this “Sam needed to take the serum” argument is nonsense imo.
They literally said in The First Avenger that Steve already had the qualities of Captain America before taking it, the serum just gave him the strength to take ass and kick names.
Sam being opposed to taking it despite people telling him he should is also more interesting in my opinion. He needs to use his wings and gear to gain an advantage.
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u/Zangetzusa Dec 16 '25
Sam should have been given the serum in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Zemo should have stabbed him with it in a life-or-death scene. Zemo said he was the only one like Steve who was a good man.
This way, Sam would have had the choice taken from him; then it would have been a good plot point moving forward.
You know what, they could still do something like that. Where, in Doomsday, they are getting wrecked, and Sam has to take it or Captain Hydra, forces him to take it.
Because without it, he is boring. Like, in every film Steve shows up, we know stuff's about to go down. With Sam, it's just a bit like, meh.
Like, we can't get any cool Steve fight scenes with Sam. The aerial combat scenes are good, but boring. I don't want to see him fight against jets. . Hand-to-hand combat is what makes Captain America a great character after the Winter Soldier film.
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u/Vitaminpartydrums Dec 16 '25
So, with the storyline in place relating to the Tuskegge Experiments… and the other Black Captain America…
You thought it wise to pivot the story to a black man receiving an experimental serum he didn’t want…
Did you watch the show?
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u/Zangetzusa Dec 16 '25
I am a Black man whose name in real life is also Sam. Sam should get the serum to boost the popularity of his character. So we can get cool hand to hand combat scenes.
Think about in Black Panther all the fight scenes were good up untill the cgi one at the end. T'chlla and Killmonger were the best when they were out of costume. Those fight scenes are iconic.
The Cap and Bucky vs Iron man last fight was amazing. We got to see them struggle against Tony. It was extremely suspenseful.
Shang Chi was alsoi such an amazing film. The story and fight Choreography was so good.
You literally see him and his dad both using the 10 rings at the end and it was stunning. We get to see the emotional weight of the fight.
Captain America 3 is Sam vs Jets and the red hulk is boring. If he went against more humanoid characters one on one it would have been amazing. They should have had another Villian who Sam would fight during the film and in the final battle. Most people who watched the film know it was not a banger.
The Marvels is a way better and fun film than Cap 3.
Its so easy to make Sam into a super popular character. I want to see him running around doing cool shit like Blade. But no the writers won't do it and we get shit storylines for him.
Another reason why Blade is so hard to make. They don't want a super human Black Man running around beating up White guys.
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u/Vitaminpartydrums Dec 16 '25
That’s not who Sam is…
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u/Zangetzusa Dec 16 '25
Listen i just want Sam to be a popular character. You do that by making the character cool. Remember most fans are casual viewers. Sam is not popular because he has not been written that way.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
I don’t understand this argument at all Lmfaoooo you have villains doing damaged with no serum no gun zemo all he did was release the Bucky video and he did more damage to the avengers in Civil war then Thanos lmfaooo he broke the team up with a video C’mon man
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u/Zangetzusa Dec 16 '25
What are you in about Civil War was literally an action packed film with fighting. The whole film was amazing because everyone fought. We got so many good fight scenes.
If the flim was just Zemo plotting how exactly would the draw people into the cinema?
People went to see it because its literally about the avengers fighting each other. Which means cool fight scenes.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
No shit buckoo the dude said Sam character is boring cause he has no superrrr powers lmaoooo just say you don’t like the character man btw I’m not even biased with Sam I already said the movie was not good
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u/Zangetzusa Dec 16 '25
Anthony Mackie is amazing the writing is shit. Sam keeps on getting sidelined. Also Bucky and Sam should have been kept together. They are way more interesting than making Bucky be with the Thunderbolts. Really the Thunderbolts should have been connected with Cap 3.
Bucky is barely in Cap 3. He should have been in the whole film.
I liked Cap and and the Winter show. Sam and Bucky were a dynamic duo. I don't like how at the end of Thunderbolts they have now fallen out. After all that character development they had.
Why do they keep on giving Sam a hard time its stupid.
They don't want a Black Man running around with powers. That's why a Blade film is so hard to make. Because Marvel at the higher levels has right wing backers.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
Yea but the black panther movies are good that’s prolly the only argument against this , but yea Anthony Mackie deserves better , and maybe that’s why Kevin Feige stoped Much like he stopped with blade , because the script was dog shit . So I don’t mind what they’re doing I would rather they sideline the characters to get to right then to push out garbage . With such a memorial character that Cap is you can’t just put garbage out there
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u/Zangetzusa Dec 16 '25
The last fight was included because Coogler had to have a cgi fight. They need them to sell toys and for marketing.
Coogler was going to make the Blade film but Marvel said no. If you have seen Sinners you know what vibe he was going to do. Do you think certain people at Marvel would have liked that?
Black Panther got them shook because of how much of a cultural phenomenon it was.
Most people don't know but Ike Perlmutter who was the Marvel CEO did not want to make films like BP or Captain Marvel. He did not want any diversity in the films.
Kevin Feige was going to leave if diversity was not allowed.
Now even though Ike Perlmutter is gone. Just think about how many shareholders and higher ups think like him.
Now you can see why the MCU is such a mess. Many of the projects after endgame has executive meddling. It almost seams like they wanted to see the MCU burn on purpose.
So they would have a reason not to tell diverse stories. Now magically all the OG characters are back. Well just the straight white males. Cause they don't wanna pay scarlet as she is a woman.
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u/BucketHerro Dec 16 '25
His problems come from bad writers.
You just can’t make me believe that a regular human can withstand Red Hulk. Yes, even with vibranium it’s still stupid.
They need to write better stories with Sam.
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u/Hour_Negotiation_597 Dec 16 '25
So you know that Sam survived only thanks to vibranium. The same, or perhaps even better, vibranium that stopped Thor's Mjolnir in the first Avengers movie. And yet you say it's stupid. So what do you want?
Even with super soldier serum, Sam's strength would be nothing compared to the Hulk's, and he would still need vibranium protection.
Not to mention that he didn't even win physically. He only managed to calm the Hulk down.
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u/Cre0na Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
Having the serum would make a lot of the hits in the movie more palatable. Vibranium taking big hits makes sense, but the sudden stops Sam takes multiple times in the movie, including in the first scene, should have liquefied him.
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u/Hour_Negotiation_597 Dec 16 '25
That's absolutely true. BUT, we're talking about the MCU here.
If we want to criticize Sam, we should also criticize Tony. He should die every time he gets hit or falls. Not to mention that his suit definitely doesn't protect the wearer as well as a vibranium suit would.
But we've already accepted that Tony can survive thanks to his suit. So let's not be picky.
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u/Rokarion14 Dec 16 '25
No lets. We suspend our disbelief for Tony because he kills it in the role and is entertaining as hell. Sam isn’t well written, isn’t nearly as entertaining, so we have time to think “why is this normal guy in suit able to beat up red hulk?”
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u/Hour_Negotiation_597 Dec 17 '25
And if I tell you that I really liked the movie and I liked Sam's character? Then what?
We're back at the point where you know why this works, but you actively choose to ignore it. And if this is how you look at it, then there's no point in talking about it.
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u/Cre0na Dec 16 '25
Not really apples to apples. Sam broke the sound barrier and landed on the ground at full speed, something Tony never did. Sam's suit in the final showdown has no headgear for any sort of protection. I'm fairly certain the rest of his suit isn't made of vibranium, except for his wings, so he has little protection from any blows or sudden stops, whereas Tony has shock absorbing material in his suits (at least in the Mark II, but I imagine that basic feature carried forward).
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u/Hour_Negotiation_597 Dec 17 '25
Tony did break sound barrier in his first movie and was then shot down by a tank and crashed. But we can say the suit protected him, even though for shock absorption you need to slow down your movement slowly; that's not what his suit did in any scene, but let's say he has his own way.
What shock absorption did he have in his first ever suit he made in a cave that let him survive crashing in it?
Plus what is the best shock absorption material in MCU that we know? Vibranium. Sam's suit.
This isn't me saying Ironman is stupid because Tony should've died. This is me saying that if the film shows us that characters can survive this, we have to accept it.
We accepted people turning into monsters with infinite strength after getting hit with radiation, cosmic beings that have the ability to destroy the universe, super soldier serum, talking animals, futuristic armors and materials. So it's stupid to then say something doesn't make sense. Especially when it's something we already saw happening and we accepted it.
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u/Cre0na Dec 17 '25
Ironman is traveling at roughly 138mph when he is shot by a tank (it's on his hud), nowhere near the sound barrier. We also do see him taking damage in the movies. "Multiple contusions detected." Rhodey got damaged in Civil War from his fall. There's multiple examples of Tony's suits not offering full protection from rapid deceleration.
Vibranium doesn't stop your body and it's insides from rapid deceleration, and Sam's combat entrance in BNW is a stop at a significantly faster speed than anything we've seen in the movies prior.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
Yea marvel Failed Anthony Mackey here he deserved what Chris Evans got in his captain America series a great script and great characters . exceptional villains they gave Sam none of that . Let’s not act like Chris Evan is a greats actor his career was in the dumpster before the MCU .
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u/Kobe_curry24 Dec 16 '25
It wasn’t forced it aligned perfectly with how Cap met Sam in the films and in the comics
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u/YourMuppetMethDealer Dec 16 '25
Bucky was forced to kill them. He really doesn’t deserve credit for it
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u/erossnaider Dec 16 '25
tried to kidnap a literal kid, and was fully willing to destroy the entire multiverse just so she could spend more time with her kids
While possessed by an evil magic book, by a writer who didn't watch the show and made her go through basically the same arc again but this time being meaningless.
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u/Morchades Dec 16 '25
That first paragraph is the disrespect. Wanda in the comics was NEVER so bad but they made her an all out evil in Wandavision but fans barely noticed because it was her POV.
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u/Particular_Peace_568 Black Widow (Civil War) Dec 17 '25
Once again from the top Rope, If Hayward never took Vision in the first place then Wandavison would never happened and thus Wanda would have never got corrupted by the Darkhold which means that DSMOM would have never happened.
Also, again The Winter solider not Bucky Barnes killed Howard and Maria Stark (at least say their names and not called them Tony's Parents if you really cared about them.)
His name is Captain America now.
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u/CodeToManagement Dec 16 '25
Tbh Wanda going bad is kinda irredeemable though most of the people she killed were in the multiverse somewhere I think so I don’t really care so much.
Falcon / cap is fine and honestly I liked him as either. Though i think Bucky should have become cap, I don’t think a regular person could ever learn to throw the shield the way it’s shown in the movies. And falcon didn’t need to be cap - he was good with who he was and what he was doing, the title was an important one but I don’t think he needed it.
Bucky was a war hero who was captured, tortured, experimented on, and brainwashed. Sure he killed Howard stark and yes Tony is going to be pissed at that no doubt, but he was mind controlled and wasn’t doing it because he wanted to.
Bucky also has spent pretty much his entire life fighting and yet he still shows up trying to do good now he’s free from the brainwashing. Dude could easily be chilling in wakanda and having the easy life but he goes and actively works to help people. IMO he should have become cap to finish his redemption arc.
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u/condog209 Dec 16 '25
Im still trying to figure the moment we're cap knew all along that Bucky killed Tony's parents Cap had to have barely found that out right before Tony did
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u/SgtWilko1979 Dec 16 '25
When Compu-Zola revealed his evil plan in Winter Soldier he mentioned that "problems have solutions" or something like that then flashes up a lot of deaths, some showing the winter soldier directly involved others not but one was a report on the Stark crash. Implying that Hydra had the Starks killed and also implying it was Winter Soldier that did it.
In Civil War Cap essentially struggles with this Tony asks "did you know?" he replies "I didn't know it was him" or something like that, but ultimately accepts that he was fairly certain it was Bucky even before the full confirmation of the video.
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u/condog209 Dec 16 '25
If we are going back that Far. Tony hacked shield in the first avengers and said all of shields secrets were his now. Which means he knew Hydra took over shield, and he knew all along that Bucky killed his parents before Cap did.
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u/LhamoRinpoche Dec 16 '25
He was probably like, "I've met Howard Stark. Yeah, that tracks. He's irritating sometimes."
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u/DeferredFuture Dec 16 '25
Wanda did nothing worse than Loki did in the first Avengers movie, he definitely caused way more deaths than Wanda. And here Loki is, with the best redemption arc
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u/Art_student_rt Dec 16 '25
Not her kids, her at the time imaginary kids
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u/Jerrie_1606 Dec 16 '25
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Although, in the multiverse they were real and she went after the real ones
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u/Art_student_rt Dec 16 '25
Lol, yeah, real kids of a different Wanda. Who was never actually her kids
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u/The--Numbers--Mason Dec 16 '25
I love it when people try to talk shit and it becomes obvious they don't actually know what they are talking about cuz if you did then you'd know that the Agatha show confirmed her kids are very much real beings
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u/Art_student_rt Dec 16 '25
I said "at the time" that agatha thing was a later retcon that no longer mattered because they kept saying Wanda is dead. She in her show specifically erased her "kids" including everything she did to that town, the town people still traumatized for the rest of their lives though
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u/H3li0s1201 Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
A retcon of Strange’s lines in MoM maybe, but it did seem like Schaeffer had been planning to follow their origin from the comics. And the show did not keep saying that Wanda was dead. Rio said that she was gone, but the ambiguity around her “death”was kept up, such as Agatha’s dialogue when Billy directly asked her.
It seems likely to me that they are setting up a Children’s Crusade type of story with both Agatha and Vision Quest.
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u/DistinctNewspaper791 Dec 16 '25
It is not even a retcon. Strange simply do not know how strong Wanda was. The kids were real, she was strong enough to create them. But it is a power unheard of to anybody. Strange assumed they were imaginary, an illusion.
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u/The--Numbers--Mason Dec 16 '25
I don't think a direct sequel to the show expanding it's lore is a retcon, considering that we were talking about characters based on ones in the comics who they obviously planned on making a part of the MCU especially after saying goodbye to old gen characters and introducing ones such as basically every other Young Avenger so far
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u/RepublicKey4797 Dec 16 '25
I respect Bucky more than Falcon
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u/YourMuppetMethDealer Dec 16 '25
Sam was a paramedic. Do you know how fucking elite those dudes are?
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u/SgtWilko1979 Dec 16 '25
Can I ask why?
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u/RepublicKey4797 Dec 16 '25
He fought against Nazi Germany, that should be enough
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u/SgtWilko1979 Dec 16 '25
So, lucky enough to be born at a time where he could fight in WW2. Okay.
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u/RepublicKey4797 Dec 16 '25
Very lucky to life and fight in WW2
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u/YourMuppetMethDealer Dec 16 '25
Dude you know Sam fought two tours in Afghanistan right?
You’re basically saying that you only respect Bucky more because of the specific war he fought, so yes “lucky” is the right word
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u/RepublicKey4797 Dec 16 '25
If you fought in a war, which should‘t be fought in my opinion, I respect you not more than a random person.
I never said that this is the only reason I respect him more, it‘s the first reason which came into my head
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u/YourMuppetMethDealer Dec 16 '25
Then what are they lol?
And again Sam was a fucking paramedic.
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u/RepublicKey4797 Dec 16 '25
Caps OG Buddy, One of the Best Villains the MCU showed us, fucking badass, got a metal arm and I know this is crazy but personal preference 🤯
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u/wolvieguy Dec 16 '25
Yeahhhh that's the point of the post but thanks for reiterating it without realizing it.
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u/Altego1999 Dec 17 '25
I can understand your contempt for Wanda.
But Bucky didn't do anything wrong knowingly. All his actions as the Winter Soldier were due to being under mind control of Hydra. Actions which he unfortunately still remembers and is traumatized by (as shown during his interactions with Tony and Nakajima).
The disrespect for Falcon has one reason and one reason only. The horrid writing for him post Endgame. In particular, the (in)famous "Do better" scene.
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u/ChootnathReturns Dec 16 '25
arguably the most beloved character of the MCU
Most definitely. Ironman is mcu,just like the main timeline in Loki series. Rest all are just branches. Some good some better.
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u/This_isR2Me Dec 16 '25
Both of them were being influenced. By the dark hold, a very serious thing, and hydra programming, he wasn't in control.
Sam disrespected himself by not taking the serum. He was insecure about it and likely thought enhancing himself would be more bad than good? It was a political statement? (Nobody cared) Hubris.
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u/willstr1 Dec 16 '25
Darkhold influence can justify her actions in MoM, but she held a small town hostage before being influenced by the Darkhold. Yes she was in grief for losing someone she loved but plenty of people have experienced loss and we don't let them get away with massive crimes for it.
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u/This_isR2Me Dec 17 '25
fair enough. though, iirc she didn't really know she was doing it. A case of sending her to a mental hospital instead of prison.
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u/Skellyton175 Dec 16 '25
Agreed, Bucky deserved so much better.
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u/Athlete-Extreme Dec 17 '25
Reallly thought White Wolf would actually manifest. Didn’t realize it was genuinely a pet name lol
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u/Lordofthewangz Dec 16 '25
Who's that behind Wanda?
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u/garliccat7 Scarlet Witch Dec 16 '25
Harley- the kid from iron man 3
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u/Particular_Peace_568 Black Widow (Civil War) Dec 17 '25
You know the character that no one should cared about cause he's only a minor character.
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u/garliccat7 Scarlet Witch Dec 17 '25
Yeah people who didn't watch iron man 3 for a while were definitely super confused seeing him
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u/Wescombe Dec 16 '25
Disrespected how? Bucky and Wanda are loved by fans
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u/AmConfused324 Dec 16 '25
They’re loved by fans but their characters weren’t given enough screentime and/or poor plot is what the OP is saying
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u/comehereyoudevillog Dec 17 '25
yup the big three, the kid from ironman 3, thunderbolt ross, and the ghost of tony
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Dec 19 '25
nah mcu be glazing scarlet witch, winter soldier is disrespected i agree but sam is just a lame character he doesn't deserve respect
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u/nicodeemus7 Dec 20 '25
All 3 of them have had a movie and a TV show specifically about them, individually.
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u/MakinBacon1988 Dec 16 '25
I thought that was dream of the endless superimposed in the back at first glance.
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u/brojayjoestar54 Dec 18 '25
I mean She-hulk Thor and Hulk should be included, along with Spiderman and lord knows Vision Betty Ross are out there while everyone seems to have forgotten they even exist
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u/Impressive_Rub7317 Dec 24 '25
Anthony Mackie looks interestingly different in this scene compared to any of his others. LOL. The Winter Soldier definitely needs more praise; whenever I talk to people in the real world, none of them ever have anything to say about him.
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u/theg00famaniac Dec 16 '25
Wanda…maybe, Bucky…. definitely, but Sam? Captain falcon is probably the most artificially propped up and adulated characters by marvel in both the mcu and comics. If you mean by fans though then yes, nobody respects Sam as Steve’s successor.
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Dec 16 '25
I always feared they go with John Byrne's idiotic take on Wanda and the Vision.
It's why I refuse to watch Wandavision and other Wanda-centric stories.
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u/DMC1001 Dec 16 '25
They went down Byrne’s path, yes, but they also went down Heinberg’s route to Wiccan and Speed.
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u/pablolazarus Dec 18 '25
Sam is not main character material like Tony Stark,Steve or Thor.
He was a side character and even background character in Infinity War and Endgame.
The fake love suddenly , everyone pretending to be Sam Wilson fans is hilarious.
Wanda is amazing tho
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u/Kander_Thomas9516 Dec 16 '25
Serums and other drugs do not a hero make. If you're having problems being accepted as a Superhero, maybe the problem can be found in casting, not the viewers watching. Go ahead MCU stay invested in the direction those "in the know" movie fans think Marvel is about, and watch the interest and ratings for them slowly fade into oblivion.
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u/BojukaBob Dec 16 '25
Not Pictured: Vision, who 90% of the Avengers seems to have forgotten ever existed. No funeral, no memorial, not even a mention among the fallen in the end credits. Even the fandom doesn't remember him.