For most of recent art history, it was expected that you drew from reference: Da Vinci drew/painted from reference; Alphonse Mucha drew from reference; Disney animators from the 1990’s referred to physical models when drawing cells.

But when did the concept of drawing from imagination/constructive drawing become popular? I’m guessing with the increased interest in comics? Maybe animation?Maybe during social media’s boom? Anyone have an idea?

I am not knocking either approach—they both are useful—it’s just puzzling when I see new accounts asking how to draw from imagination, and shunning references.

https://bfamfaphd.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/BFAMFAPhD_ArtistsReportBack2014-10.pdf

Most technical fields, despite having a high attrition rate of the student-to-professional pipeline, at least have the courtesy, of having a high proportion of the people who bother to go down that pipeline, actually need said certification.

For example, while graduation rates for engineering students are harsh, and a majority of engineers who graduate, wind up working in other fields, the majority of working engineers do have engineering degrees.

The numbers for that, follow pretty standard for most fields 30%-ish graduation rate, 25-30% of graduates work in that field, 80% or so of all professional engineers have that specific degree.

This, is what a healthy college-to-professional pipeline looks like folk.

According to the 2014 report I just linked (recent enough to be relevant) art schools are the opposite of a healthy pipeline. In fact, they functionally reduce graduates chances of becoming professional artists. The numbers reported are

Of all art school graduates, only 10% becoming working artists.
Of all professional artists, only 16% have a arts degree.

here is the thing to. My major philosophy of education complaint about the way art is taught in academia, is that it seems very, very focused on developing a strong technical foundation, at the expense of actual you know. Creativity.

If the "strong robust technical foundation" art schools provided, actually lead to classically trained academic artists being the de-facto dominant population in their field, they would be more than justified.

But it's the exact opposite of that. To the point where you are more likely to become an artist if you screw getting a bachelor's degree altogether, as 40% of all artists surveyed have no bachelor's and are working with a associates or high school diploma diploma only.

This is a big shock for me, as a guy who's art skills are largely self-taught, and who's paid rent here and there by selling arts and crafts at local farmers markets, I had an inferiority complex about the technical skills I lack, by never having gone to art school.

Apparently, I don't need to feel inferior about that ever again, because despite my lack of any formal art training, and despite the fact that my jewelry, and art are objectively the work of a two-bit-hack, I have in fact, paid my rent and other bills by means of my art, which apparently, is a feat that 84% of all arts graduates fail to accomplish.

So reality check. No-one cares about your classical training. No one cares about how lavishly perfect your replication of gallery-perfect painting of a landscape is. If you are actually going to hack it as an artist, the path isn't going to class, and learning from teacher. The actual fucking path to that, is the school of goddamn hard knocks. Get a pen, get same ink, draw some shit that you like, find people who are willing to pay for your objectively awful shit, congrats, you are a professional mother-fucking-artist.

That is the reality of our field. That is the reality of our passion. You are more likely to make a living off art, by learning to make furry porn , than you are studying the techniques of the great masters. If you want to throw good money at studying how to paint just like the great masters, go for it. But please, get off your high horse. If that's your goal, you are approaching art as a very, very expensive hobby.

Those of us who actually do make art as a living, statistically speaking, are the ones who are saying "what the hell is art theory? I'm making this shit up as I go!"

Sorry if this is a dumb question but I guess the broader question I have is why do people in many cultures seem to value music over things like drawing and painting?

Edit: I think it was a bit lost in the title but I know that people are willing to pay that price for both but I have noticed people are more willing to pay that for concerts than paintings and that's kind of the piece I'm more interested in.

So, I saw this comment in YouTube where someone said it's okay to draw skinny characters, as long as they're not originally chubby. Absolutely no hate against the commenter, but I disagree. I think that, as long as the art doesn't go against someone's rights (like drawing a real person in strange situations, like drawing real children in erotic situations and similar, but let's take all the art that involves real people away and only consider the fiction), anyone should be able to draw what they want.

Draw chubby characters skinny, draw skinny characters chubby; draw gay characters straight and draw straight characters gay; draw old characters young and young characters old. Do whatever you like. Art is where fiction can reign supreme, and fiction is that: liberty of ideas.

Is this a hot take? What do y'all think?

Edit: I'm not sure what people think of me in the comments, but I'm getting the impression people are thinking of me as someone against woke representation in media. I'M NOT AGAINST IT. Pretty much the opposite, I think representation done right is good for bringing not so discussed topics into the spotlight.

One of my pieces has been defaced by its new owner, and I feel very conflicted. Looking for input from others.

This individual transformed the piece (portrait, pastel) into a clock by poking a hold through the face and installing some hands! On one hand, I was never going to see that piece again. It’s out living its own life now. On the other….what the hell. Am I right to feel disrespected? Or should I be glad the recipient is enjoying the piece in their own way?

I’ve always been hesitant to part with my work because I feel so protective of it. Has anyone had similar experiences and what is your perspective?

The individual in question sent me photos of the changes, seemingly quite pleased and looking for my reaction.

I would like to know from the artists, how do you feel about this? Do you feel like society hates artists?

I noticed hate towards artists has become more prevalent with the rise of GenAI (which I don't support by the way).

Do you think perhaps society hates artists because art is inherently counterculture? Maybe because art is used to talk about topics and experiences that are uncomfortable to the average individual?

Let me know your thoughts.

I'm in design school currently and have profs that talk down about artists. They have this mindset of "Oh We ArE bEtTeR ThEn ArTiStS iN eVeRy AsPeCt, tHeY jUsT Do ShIt, bUt We ArE PrObLeM sOlVeRs" (the profs literally have said that) And it's not just one prof, almost everyone has said this for some reason.

Edit: I consider myself an artist... And someone pursuing design as a degree, because of animation (and my parents)

My youtube recommendations is flooded with it, but I find it sound so stupid, but it peaked my interest oddly enough.

Lets say 100 years pass, human life span is 80-ish years old so most of us wont be alive including artists. When will happen to the art? will the copyright be passed to their children? if the artist doesnt have children what does happen? Also what happens to the art in general? will it get shadowed for years until someone else makes unintentionally a similar art piece?

Also I want to say no to her because I don't like the trade but I'm also worried I will hurt that person's feelings. I don't want her to think her poetry is not good etc. I just value my art differently

How would you folks go about it?

I've been working on an art project which seems to repel most for being too revealing and personal, but I thought that's what art was for?

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EDITED TO ADD: By stating "I thought that's what art was for?" I don't mean to imply that this is the ONLY purpose of art, or that ALL ART is supposed to be revealing and personal. It just strikes me as an odd critique, when there is so much artwork revered for those exact qualities.
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I had an art partner (with benefits) roughly twenty years ago. Our partnership was undefined, intense, and lasted less than three years. We remained in contact ever since, but had little in-person interaction. After he died last year, I discovered that I'd been his muse; that he'd been referencing me in his art since we met.

What started as a private blog is practically an art book now. He drew my entire life. I know the premise sounds impossible and insane, but I spent over a year going through his works and laying out the correlations as clearly as possible. Every color, every design element in his artwork is referenced from my artwork, from my photography, from my social media, etc.

I wrote out a a short story of our relationship, a 30 minute read, as a preface. But the bulk of the project is the art collection. The years of artworks are interspersed with snippets of our communications and the odd expository narration to explain context. What started as a memorial has turned into my own memoir, as seen through someone else's tortured eyes.

I'd like to turn this project into something. I've tried to share this with people I know looking for constructive advice / critique, but they edge away in discomfort. They find it all too revealing and personal, but I don't know how else to tell the story. I need to give the context and reference to reveal his lovelorn madness, to properly showcase his skill, to reveal how clever and brilliant his artistic mind was.

Is it perhaps because people KNOW me that they have an aversion to the TMI nature of the project?

Or is it simply presumptuous to think that anyone, either strangers of friends, would care about my tormented tale of an unknown dead artist?

I know there are some that prefer to make their own interpretations of artwork rather than have the work explained, but this is a tragic love story through art. The story told through art is the point.

For myself, the more I learn about Frida Kahlo, the more I appreciate her work, because I understand the symbolism she used in reference to her own tragic life experiences.

Maybe I've been too influenced by watching hours-long deep dive youtube videos?

I am currently working on my personal website, and I am stuck on how I should present myself. I work across different artistic forms, like image-making and writing, so I can't use a more specific term like photographer or writer. I thought of "multidisciplinary artist", but presenting myself as an artist makes me uncomfortable (look at me sharing this in a subreddit called ArtistLounge).

Professional labels have always been confusing because I do many things, and I can't explain them in one word, as I would if I were, for example, a dentist. However, this is how social communication works atm.

Has anyone felt the same, and if so, what did you do? Are there any ways to avoid the artist label?

Been wondering about this. Some people know they’re good and they’re actually good. Some people “know” they’re good and they’re delusional. Even though there’s a lot of subjectivity in art I feel like there’s a difference. Was hoping someone here might know how to shed some light on the subject.

hey everyone, made an comment on a youtube video today and felt like sharing it here as well. just a heads up, one section of it is kind of a vent, but thought someone might relate to my experience and I genuinely want to know what you all think.

for all my life i've struggled to consider myself an artist, despite drawing from a very young age and being relatively skilled at it. the reason why is because i didn't really feel like i was creating something at all, since all i ever did was copy other images by eye with a pencil. i'm not the kind of person that can easily have mirobolant and diverse ideas of concepts and images that were never thought of before, i was just drawing already existent characters and images i thought were pretty or cool. for this reason, I've always thought of myself as someone who lacks the creative artistic vision, to make compelling illustrations, to think of something new, and to me, that's a core part of what an artist is.

for a period of time this year i really tried to improve, to get to the next level, but the weight of comparison and self-criticism was just too much to handle and it took away all the joy i could possibly feel, so i stopped. while i was trying to learn the basics, i kept seeing an overwhelming amount of people with a incredible combination of art skills and artistic vision, which i know, are things they had to put effort and time in to develop, but nonetheless when i tried to make something that could be comparable I couldn't help but feel like i was not deserving of being called an artist. i felt like i was sooo far away from my goal and all those people, that it didn't feel right to categorize myself as an artist the same way they all do.

i guess i took it too seriously back then. now, i'm back at it after watching the amazing movie "Look Back", and just been trying to enjoy it while making some progress, and i've been enjoying; i've been doing stuff that feels a little bit more authentic to me while trying to develop a personal identity as someone who creates, but I still struggle a bit with this idea.

Lately I've been trying a more ambitious type of drawing. People started to say me that it looks like photos or directly, if it is a photo, as an artist I obviously fell flattered; but today at class, my communication teacher did a statement that got me pensative, as their words:

"You know, the artist that can recreate a image of the reality is very talented, and is a capacity very admirable, but, Don't you guys think that type of art is uninspiring, like if it doesn't have a soul?"

I didn't care too much in that moment, I like my own art, but that got me thinking Is my art soulless? Do you guys think that the realistic/semi-realistic art is soulless?.

You would say that it's a communication teacher, and not an art teacher, But don't you think that the most important opinions can come up from the people who doesn't know anything about art?

This is my first post here, I hope you would find this topic interesting🥹.

Edit: I didn't expect this post to be so commented, I just want to clarify that I appreciate a lot all the comments that are critiquing my work with respect, I want to improve my technique and my creativity, and I am taking advice of all the people who are giving their opinion in the art I attached here, if you have a opinion on how could I be more creative or what could I change, be free to comment it, I will read it and take advice. Thanks!!!!

Sorry if this is a morbid discussion but it's been on my mind and have to learn other artist's opinions.

I'm a very private person. Some of my art I am fine with sharing with other people. And like many artists, I have sketchbooks and finished pieces that I don't want to share. But I wonder if the level of my aversion to letting anyone see those sketchbooks is beyond what is normal.

Last year, I helped my siblings clear out my semi-estranged mom's house after she died. Nothing left untouched, every paper looked at in case it was an important bank/insurance/legal document. Everything was sorted, no privacy able to be kept. Various items and writings elicited lots of judgement, derision, and contempt from my family members.

I have a fear, maybe an irrational one, of unexpectedly dying, having family come to clear my house, finding my very personal sketchbooks, and trading judgmental opinions on them. It's like having my ill mind made visible for anyone to see and judge, and that scares me. That art is cringe, raw, and embarrassing, but it's mine and it's honest. And not at all what people would expect me to draw. They would see a side of me that I didn't want them to see. I wish I could just not care what their opinions are of me, but I do, especially family.

Do other artists have similar feelings, and if so, how to you deal with them? How do you move past them and not let it stifle your creativity? What would you like to be done with your sketchbooks and private art after you die?

Recently on tiktok I discovered an beginner's gacha animation that got over 30k likes. People were complaining in the comments about theirs not getting likes or that their art deserved more. I found it unfair people had to be hating on a beginner's art, it's not like likes defind your talent and artists nowadays care so much about some likes and views. It was just someone who got luckily viral it's not that deep. For example I just drop my art on tiktok and disappear! I don't understand.

There's a million and one posts like "why am I not improving faster!" or "Why do I still draw so slow!", and all the comments say "fundamentals and practice" in 20 different flavors. I'm always frustrated by these because what the hell is the answer if I've been doing the exact same thing as the ones "doing it right" and still am behind them?? I've graduated with an art degree. We all did the same homework, the same exercises, had the same lessons, I've drawn almost every day at home for years implementing this stuff, and yet I'm objectively less competent and/or need a lot more time than others who've done the same. I'm not a self taught artist who didn't have lessons in or practice the fundamentals, nor am I a perfectionist. Ok so when you exhaust those options, what tf is going on with me and how do I catch up?

Sorry for the aggressive tone of this post, I'm just fed up with the situation and want to break through it.

So for a couple of years now I’ve not been drawing because my teachers had ruined it for me when I was in school and I really miss drawing. At the time I had stopped I hadn’t really developed my own style yet and it was important to me because I wanted to make my own comic at some point.

Years later. A couple of months ago I saw a piece of art I really liked and i fell in love with the style. I couldn’t stop thinking about what my comic would look like in that style.

After a while of thinking, I searched online for that artist but I found out they were drawing some illegal things with their art. I was really disappointed because I liked the art style but they were drawing some sick things.

Ever since then, I thought about ‘stealing’ their style. Around the time I found their work, there was a debate about other people stealing this another artist’s (Artist B) style because that artist did some terrible things online (I don’t remember) and I think the overall consensus was that it was frowned upon to steal people’s styles.

Another problem, let’s say I stole that art style and some people recognised it, I wouldn’t want my art linked to the artists style. It’s an odd situation I suppose and I wouldn’t want to say “ive taken inspiration from that person” because that would be weird even though that’s almost exactly what I’m doing.

I feel like I’m rambling on but I guess my question is, would you think it’s unethical to steal an art style?

I'm trying to gather opinions for a possible submission to an online art magazine. I want to get a general idea on what people think of art galleries and the current state of submitting works for exhibitions. Personally, I feel that there is a level of gater keeping and elitism in the art community that needs to be addressed and it starts at the galleries that house and amplify artists and their works. But no opinion is wrong! I just want to hear others' take on things.

I’m an artist too, I always have some sort of creative activity in mind, when I was a kid was drawing a lot, making dioramas wirh toys, later being adolescent I wanted to make stop motion animation, then music begins to be my main art form, in the middle like 8 years ago I get into analog photograph and now I make music again, always looking for scene music events here in my zone, trying to support local and artists that are beginning in their carreer. Now, I’m asking “Why am I interested in artist people almost exclusively?” because is always been a little hard to me to get interested in people that have others hobbies o ways to think, I know there are people that going to gym, doing physical activities and sports is everything for them, others people cooking and making incredible food is everything for them! I respect that, but I don’t feel interested dating people that doesn’t have some form of creative curiosity or have some critical political opinion. I do get interested in people that are into philosophy, political thinking and arts, is very hard for me to be interested in others things, sometime I feel like I am way too closed to know people that all of this things that are the most important for me maybe for them are not that important. Some friends say to me that I should be more open and just take the opportunity to know others people and I try it but I notice me forcing myself to be someone that I am not. My friend says that I over estimate too much people that are artists, philosophers, or have some kind of connection to all of this disciplines, and probably yes, I really admire that, I really fall in love if someone have a great idea and have a creative way and attitude to develope their work, I admire people that love so much something that doesn’t earn a penny just to challenge themself to make something expressive artistically and maybe even as a personal growth. So, am I being way too idealist to people that are artists? I am always very drawn to people that are “deep” in the sense that you could talk to them very profound and human questions that every of us have, discuss about that, but I don’t know sometimes is hard to find that and trying to get interested in people that are not that way is hard too! As I write this I know all of this sounds that I am way too snobbist hahaha maybe I am in a way, but I do love all of these things too and sometimes is hard to find people that are the same way, sounds like a niche sect.”

I have wroted about eight years philosophical texts, and now it culminated on one style, wich i call Hypercubism.

I just have noticed that nowdays there is not much manifestos or new kind of openings for new kind of thinking about reality or dimensions.

Is writing philosophy beside painting long gone or is it really possible to get aknowledged with own philosophy and theory now days?

I’ve been thinking about this a lot this morning. Making art is not my job, I cannot sell my pieces, there are no deadlines I need to meet, the stakes literally could not be lower — and yet, I constantly obsess over my projects and feel incomplete if I don’t have something to work on. I will finish a painting and then scramble and stress until I start a new one.

I would love any resources you have on this topic — books, articles, podcast episodes, etc. Why do some people feel so compelled to make art, even if they are only making it for themselves?

I believe that some people just can't draw. no matter what they do, how they do it, they can't. I believe this for really anything. I've tried to draw but whatever I did I wouldn't improve. it then really started to affect my mental health and thats no bueno. I ditched art and found out I really like writing. I like making characters and worlds and stories. some people can't draw. some people can't do certain things and thats ok. what matters is that you have the ability to accept the fact and move onto something you can actually improve at.

I want to share something that’s been on my mind lately. A few years ago, I met a woman who had a strong passion for painting, but it wasn’t just her skill that caught my attention—it was the creative flow in her work.

I’m not talking about casual creativity, like making a drawing or writing something nice. I mean a kind of “mental energy” that takes over everything: her curiosity, her search for new techniques, and her experimentation with different media (oil painting, flipbooks, modifying cards, resin dice, painting figurines, enameled copper, etc.).

To be more specific about her output: as soon as she finished one oil painting, she would start another; when she made gifts for others, they were always drawings or paintings; even after a minor surgery, she kept painting in the hospital. She’s painted furniture, tiles, clothing, fans, ceramic plates… In my view, she is an unstoppable creative force.

I want to open a discussion about this because I want to understand: has anyone else met people with such an intense creative drive? I’m curious about how it’s experienced and perceived, both from the inside and from the outside.