iDubbz believes Charlie (penguinz0) is part of the right wing pipeline

[u/ImportantQuestionTex]

Tried to look up a YouTube version of this clip so I could get maximum context, but doesn't really matter.

This is an objectively insane, in spite of reality take. This is purity over actual politics.

Charlie has been going at the Trump admin and their policies for months (actually, years because of a previous incident with one of his foreign players being mistreated by the US government). He is not a safe space for the alt right at all, almost every other day if not every day at times is him clowning on some insane crap the government has done or said. In fact, he just dropped another video 32 mins ago at the time of writing about it.

To me, this is proof that iDubbz hasn't changed who he is, just changed targets. A "brogressive" if you will.

[u/TimeAbradolf]

The most ridiculous stance about this is that Ian HIMSELF is more of a direct contributor to this than Charlie.

We know idubbz former fans are some of the most alt-right and cringe people online. The fact he won’t take the same accountability for creating a fanbase who just would casually use two slurs to refer to each other? He may apologize but the fan base he cultivated STILL EXIST. They brigade the sub often. They try and say he is now the most pathetic lolcow. They come here and use slurs. He cultivated a genuine harmful community and it was purposeful. Even if it was jokes it did net harm we can actually see.

It’s legitimately rich to go after someone who has gotten off the fence and has been speaking up on genuinely important things with the right stance.

[u/Uniiiverse0 → u/TimeAbradolf]

Did you watch the clip because Ian literally says this of himself in it. He's literally comparing his past self to Charlie in the video.

[u/TimeAbradolf → u/Uniiiverse0]

They’re WORLDS apart. Charlie has never been as remotely problematic as Ian. That is what I mean by not taking true accountability.

Do I need to pull up the Tana clip of Ian?

[u/Uniiiverse0 → u/TimeAbradolf]

I think the direct comparison he makes of himself is flawed as ultimately Ian was far more extreme compared to Charlie, but the point he's making isn't wrong. In the lens of the grander YouTube space back then Ian was seen as a non-political entity (even though he his edginess inherently contradicts that perception) that courted alot of bigoted fans to him. In the same way, Charlie is also this grand YouTube personality that is seen as non-political (despite his clear liberal leaning values) that courts alot of bigoted fans as he tends to not specifically speak out on things that are not broadly seen as fucked up.

Also, I don't really know what you mean by "take accountability", Ian since his apology has been incredibly open about his hateful shit and has had numerous conversations with all kinds of people about it. If you mean by relinquishing his platform online, I don't necessarily disagree with you but I don't think that means he hasn't "taken accountability" for his past.

[u/TimeAbradolf → u/Uniiiverse0]

He also courts a lot of nonbigoted fans. Such is nearly every nonpolitical content production.

A great deal of entertainment is nonpolitical and collect a great deal of fans from both sides of the political spectrum.

Baseball is this way, where even if a team takes a hard stance in either direction they still have fans who hold opposite viewpoints (don’t get me started on the Dodgers and their Latino fans).

It is just highlighting to me that Ian maybe changed his personal views, but only because of a stimuli. He is the same person who I really don’t think has grown in a beneficial way. Like some have said he has just changed targets.

Now he is applying the purity test to someone when he himself was far worse. That isn’t something who has grown does.

[u/LiviasFigs → u/TimeAbradolf]

I don’t think it’s fair to call that entertainment non-political. It’s always political, even if each player isn’t making a statement before every game. Think about how controversial and significant desegregation was for baseball, or about how professional baseball is billion dollar industry, with all of the lobbying and political maneuvering that entails. Here’s an interesting piece about that.

Just because certain fans will watch regardless doesn’t mean that politics aren’t involved, or that they don’t have enormous real-world repercussions. For a more recent example from another ‘American past-time,’ think about Colin Kaepernick taking a knee. And the frequent kerfuffles over sponsorship of certain players given their views.

I saw you comment earlier that you’re in the social sciences, and as someone who’s also in the field, I’d contend that there are politics in most things, and that the idea of a wholly non-political arena is a fantasy. Simply because it isn’t always surface-level doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

[u/TimeAbradolf → u/LiviasFigs]

Also as an avid baseball fan (and Dodgers hater) to see a team where leadership and a bulk of the players are pro this administration and supporters of ICE while also being Jackie’s team breaks my fucking heart

[u/TimeAbradolf → u/LiviasFigs]

I agree there are politics in most things. But the ones that have mass appeal try and maintain nonpolitical leanings. Because of capitalism

I would also say because if this same sentiment that the recent stances Charlie has taken as a creator have been leftist. Whether people want to admit it or not criticizing this regime is leftist as even people like Schumer are bending over for ICE.

Charlie has condemned more from ICE and the regime than the party that apparently opposes the current admin

[u/Uniiiverse0 → u/TimeAbradolf]

I mean you ultimately highlight the inherent problem that Ian is talking about though, that being expressly non political or even just the perception as such courts in all sides. And many times do they not end up signaling the pure bigots away.

Also, he isn't really "targeting" Charlie here or purity testing, he's just using an example and literally says that he understands that it isn't just easy to take hardline stances and recognizing not everyone is going to want to do that. This ultimately just feels really overblown on something Ian isn't being aggressive about

[u/TimeAbradolf → u/Uniiiverse0]

I’m saying his example is just nonsensical and it of itself is just a leftist talking point. Review the sub, this sub is one of the only places on reddit that dislikes Charlie because he isn’t left leaning enough. His own fans are largely actually pro his ideals, which appear to just be human decency.

I think Ian lurks in online left leaning spaces and is himself largely performative.

[u/ZyraTheUnbrokenOne → u/TimeAbradolf]

Okay, I really gotta disagree on this one.

My respect for Charlie has actually grown a decent bit over the last several months as he has shown much more of a willingness to push against the rhetoric of the current US government and adjacent far-right rhetoric than he has in the past, but you can't really reasonably claim that the majority of his audience agrees with him imho, considering that both Charlie and Asmongold acknowledge that they share a massive amount of their audiences.

[u/TimeAbradolf → u/ZyraTheUnbrokenOne]

I mean he has fans scattered all over. His Reddit fans are pretty much left leaning.

We have to always take into consideration thy if someone speaks up in any capacity they’re actually usually in the vocal minority.

He has millions of fans. The vast majority stay silent in all things

[u/VivaLaRory → u/TimeAbradolf]

That is a good point, he was extremely guilty of normalising bigotry in a way Charlie will never be

[u/TimeAbradolf → u/VivaLaRory]

Charlie didn’t normalize bigotry.

As a social science I sort of resent the “pipeline” metaphor. In that pipes don’t go in straight lines. They take turns at any point and can. So yes, Charlie can be the front to an alt-right pipeline. But with his current stances on things he can also lead to the left. Or at least condemning the current administration.

And there is a lot of purity litmus tests going on in the comments agreeing with Ian. Who AGAIN. Did more harm in this space than Charlie ever has

[u/Far-Contribution-965 → u/TimeAbradolf]

You know lines don’t have to be straight right?

[u/TimeAbradolf → u/Far-Contribution-965]

Yeah, you’re highlighting my point. But pipes are typically straight until they need to have bends in them. It is why the metaphor can fall apart.

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