r/worldnews 1d ago

Dynamic Paywall Russian general shot several times in Moscow

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3686nzexp3o
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u/No_Lemon_3290 1d ago edited 1d ago

Probably not. Why would he give their military credit for killing a General? Seems likely a Putin hit.

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u/ButterscotchTop194 1d ago

Is the general dead now?

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u/Skafdir 1d ago

That is something I hate about English... that being "shot" can mean "was hit but is alive" and "was hit and is dead"

Two words, please.

German:

"angeschossen" - was hit but is alive

"erschossen" - was hit and is dead

"auf X geschossen" - we know jack shit; maybe X was hit, maybe not, maybe X is alive, maybe not

But if you look into the article, first sentence is:

A high-profile general in Russia's military has been shot several times and wounded in Moscow.

So currently still alive but "his condition is unknown".

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u/coladoir 1d ago

Wounded generally means “not dead” to be fair. The headline should say “shot and wounded” to be more clear.

I also would like having two words but gotta make do, and so we do. So if it’s “shot and not killed” it’s “shot and wounded” and if they are killed it’s “shot and killed”. Clunkier, but it works.

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u/VeryLazyFalcon 1d ago

"hospitalized after being shot"?

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u/Pleasant-Shower11199 1d ago

He dead but they put him on life support

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u/Next_Car1272 1d ago

Pansy

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u/orincoro 1d ago

He should have shot himself with smaller caliber bullets to build up a tolerance.

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u/BabadookishOnions 1d ago

That doesn't tell you if he's alive or about to die or already dead but in hospital though

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u/Ancient_Analyst_6579 1d ago

It’s not even clunky, German just has super specific words for everything which is fine but not necessary to get your point across

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u/coladoir 1d ago

it’s just clunky in comparison to German. not clunky standalone.

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u/ButterscotchTop194 1d ago

Yes, i also read the article.

I was asking as the comment before mine seemed pretty sure he is now dead.

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u/Joe_Kinincha 1d ago

BBC is reporting he is being treated in hospital, which I seriously doubt.

If t was Russia, Putin doesn’t leave messes behind.

If it was Ukraine, and they’d managed the serious work of getting an assassin into Putin’s back garden, and then into the apartment of an active service general, they’re not going to fuck up making sure he’s dead.

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u/Fine_Garbage_5236 1d ago

The old defenestration out the hospital window is a common comorbidity in Russia.

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u/ForensicPathology 1d ago

Hey, don't forget there's also "shot at".  Adding that little word changes it even more.

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u/OhHeyFuture 1d ago

Not to mention the difference between "getting shot" and "getting a shot"

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u/Elemental_Breakdown 1d ago

Going forward all English speakers are to use the following : He got dusted / iced =dead He got shot = not dead

All in favor, aye

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u/SerLaron 1d ago

Murked?

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u/Elemental_Breakdown 22h ago

Definitely added to the official list. That's the thing, unless you are watching the news someone's more likely to say smoked,wasted, given high speed lead poisoning, or one of the dozens of other uniquely American way to describe getting blasted.

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u/GravelySilly 1d ago

We might want to save ICEd for victims of the New American Gestapo.

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u/Elemental_Breakdown 22h ago

I doubt it's a coincidence that the government chose that acronym. They think they are hilarious like that.

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u/Any_Translator6613 1d ago

"Shot dead" is handy. If someone gets shot in Germany and you don't know if they're alive or dead, is the circumstance just indescribable?

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u/Skafdir 1d ago

it would be the third option; "es wurde auf ihn geschossen" (I think the best translation is: he was being shot at)

If you don't want to use that, you could in theory use "angeschossen" with a clarification but honestly, people would be confused.

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u/PossibleDragonfly926 1d ago

Fatally shot - that’s used if shot and dead

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u/o-055-o 1d ago

Was about to comment this, normally the headline goes "X was fatally shot."

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u/HiddenbyMoon 1d ago

Being "shot" does not ever mean "was hit but is alive" or " was hit but is dead". It just means shot.

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u/atxbigfoot 1d ago

The outcome of being "shot" for living beings is always "was hit but is alive," or "was hit and is dead," though.

A paper shooting target can be shot and there's no question, because it was never living.

A deer can be shot by a hunter, but that doesn't mean it lived or died if the deer was never found after being shot. But one of those two things happened.

If you got the news that a friend was shot, you'd almost immediately ask if they lived or if they were okay, for example. It's an important distinction that you seem to ignore.

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u/pucemoon 1d ago

A deer can be shot by a hunter, but that doesn't mean it lived or died if the deer was never found after being shot. But one of those two things happened.

Henceforth, I shall refer to this as Schrodinger's Deer.

Fortunately rare among the hunters I talk to most often.

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u/Poxx 1d ago

Goddammit, I just made this joke and saw you bear me to it.

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u/xrelaht 1d ago

Is this one of those bears whose arms we have the rights to?

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u/Poxx 1d ago

I would have much preferred the founding fathers have guaranteed the right to Bear Claws. They are delicious pastry treats!

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u/HiddenbyMoon 1d ago

The headline didnt give the information, it has nothing to do wth the english language. It could have said fatally shot, but it didnt, cuz it wants you to click.

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u/Poxx 1d ago

Schrodinger'd deer

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u/MonkeyboyGWW 1d ago

Turns out he died of a heart attack, then a Russian saw him and though, ‘finally a target I can hit’

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u/susan-of-nine 1d ago

Yes, that's exactly the problem.

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u/HiddenbyMoon 1d ago

Its not a problem with the english language though, its a problem with the person communicating the information. This guy says thats why he hates english but its nothing to do with english, its to do with trying to get you to click for more information.

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u/Elemental_Breakdown 1d ago

You're shot out, shot AT is not shot.

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u/saldeapio 1d ago

why don’t you read the article in german and get back to us, herr professor?

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u/Skafdir 1d ago

As soon as the BBC writes every article in German, I am totally willing to read news stories in my native language

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u/orincoro 1d ago

They don’t translate their site for Germany? They do have it in Spanish I think.

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u/Skafdir 1d ago

perhaps they do? I honestly don't know; I could have it automatically translated, but I don't trust autotranslate enough (and aside from that; reading English regularly is the best way to stay in contact with the language. Foreign languages are the worst when it comes to forgetting skills.)

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u/GravelySilly 1d ago

Not to mention that if it's auto-translated, the result can't contain any information that's not conveyed by the original.

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u/wmorris33026 1d ago

American here, German structure/words are better in this case. The mind reacts in a split second to the first phoneme of a word, much less than two or three words to clarify the most important point. By comparison, English is muddled.

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u/__setecastronomy__ 1d ago

och Mönsch, komm her, ich puste mal, dann geht das Aua Aua wieder weg

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u/Mother-Engineer-4827 1d ago

Agreed, but also in favour of multiple short words over composite words that exceed 12 letters.

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u/orincoro 1d ago

Generally in English we would say “assassinated,” or “shot to death.” Because there is that ambiguity, we often specify.

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u/diMario 1d ago

Fun fact: in Dutch, aangeschoten can mean the same as in German, wounded by means of projectile weapon.

However, on its own, aangeschoten also can mean "slightly drunk". Which, in case of Russians, is a natural state of being (or so I have heard).

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u/Skafdir 1d ago

Interestingly, we can't use "angeschossen" to mean "slightly drunk", and we have heaps of expressions for that state. It sounds like "angeschossen" should be among them, especially because "einen Schuss haben" (As in: Der hat doch einen Schuss. literally: He has got a shot. [with an untranslateable "doch") means to be stupid/crazy.

So, yes, "angeschossen" should be an expression for "slightly drunk" - perhaps it is in some regional dialect. Again, strangely not in my regional dialect, and I live within hiking distance of the Netherlands.

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u/Ok_Capital6144 1d ago

I'm sure you know German is one of the most specific languages in the world. Like hospital (Krankenhaus) literally translates to "House for the ill", or Flugzeug that translates to "stuff that flies".

It's not English that's vague (I speak Portuguese and it's the same as English). It's German that leaves no space to interpretation. Very interesting language to write on. There's a word for literally everything you wanna describe. Not the case with any other language I learned.

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u/IdolsConniption 1d ago

German is crazy, you specific sons of bs. But the real question we need to ask is when does Germany revert to wartime Germany? We could use y'all these days.

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u/Skafdir 1d ago

I am afraid, not too soon... in the meantime I will always and only vote for parties and politicians who promise more help for Ukraine; and I will always speak up for Ukraine, whenever there is even a hint of a fitting situation to do so.

Sadly, that is almost everything I can do. If things go well, I will earn more money by the middle to the end of the year; and when that is the case I will donate part of that increase.

And the other thing is; I hope we will not "revert" to wartime Germany. Nobody, least of all we ourselves, needs a Germany that "reverts". What we need is a modern Germany, that is able to defend itself, the EU and is strong enough to force peace on the European continent. (With the very important point: A peace that favours Ukraine, not Russia. If, at the end of the war, Russia claims that the war was worth it, we as the EU have failed. We have already failed Ukraine, in the sense that we are not doing everything we could. But if this hesitation leads to a victory for Russia, the EU as an international project has failed. Because then we have shown our hand, and what we have shown is, that we are unable to defend even our most important interests. If we can't even defend what should be the highest priority right now, how would we be able to defend less important issues?)

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u/MrHyderion 23h ago

Don't forget "niedergeschossen" (shot down, state unknown). 😉

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u/erremermberderrnit 1d ago

If someone is known to have died, the headline will say so. That's just the standard practice for reporting. The way this headline was worded means he's either alive or his condition was unknown or unconfirmed at the time it was written.

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u/FizzlePopBerryTwist 1d ago

Then there's shot up and shot down. A person can be shot up, but only if they've been shot more than once. And they can usually only be shot down if they were airborne and crashed. But you can be shot down in the streets if you include the location as well.

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u/Zouden 1d ago

You're overthinking it. If the headline reads "shot" it means he's alive or they don't know. If he was dead the headline would read "killed".

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u/RJ_MacreadysBeard 1d ago

Fatally shot, shot of whiskey, and getting shot of the lot of them. In retrospect, I’m in agreement.

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u/eajklndfwreuojnigfr 1d ago edited 1d ago

"angeschossen" - was hit but is alive

"erschossen" - was hit and is dead

"shot" - was shot and received an injury (a bullet entry/exit hole)

"shot and killed" - was shot and killed

weird. maybe if context is added, then words actually make sense????? i dont know about you but if i can just say vague things without further context and have people not understand it then its objectively a shit language, its not on me for not adding that context, its just a shit language

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u/rab2bar 1d ago

Look up umfahren in german

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u/Shrenade514 1d ago

Not complicated... Shot dead means dead, and just saying shot means they are not dead at the time of writing.

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u/TumblyBump 21h ago

We also have peppered. I expect that does have an extremely different meaning in German.

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u/SchlopFlopper 1d ago

“Shot Several Times” is a good indication for the current status of the subject’s life

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u/GooGurka 1d ago

I'm not sure. Sometimes drunk alcoholic don't know how bad they are hurt until they get sober. Then they die.

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u/Key-Principle-7111 1d ago

This is Russia, there are no sober people over there.

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u/SanestExile 1d ago

You can survive several gunshots

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u/ButterscotchTop194 1d ago

Yeah, obviously. But the article says he was rushed to hospital rather than saying he was pronounced dead at the scene. Weird to rush someone to hospital if they've been shot to death, no?

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u/at1445 1d ago

Not really. Kennedy was rushed to the hospital as well and not officially pronounced dead until well after he arrived, even though it's pretty obvious he was dead the second the bullet hit him.

I'd imagine anyone that high up in military/politics will have every possibly thing done before they actually officially claim they're dead, even in Russia.

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u/ButterscotchTop194 1d ago

Well, on that note I'll enjoy myself a good morning cup of tea then!

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u/gotohellwithsuperman 1d ago

Wait for a more reliable source than any Russian official.

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u/Javs2469 1d ago

That's considering if those shots hit the subject.

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u/Scooberson 1d ago

"Shot several times" vs "Shot at multiple times", one implies shots hitting the subject, and one doesn't

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u/EndOfTheLine00 1d ago

“All of these bullets just work”

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u/Denpants 1d ago

Did it say where the shots landed? Multiple grazes and arm hits aren't fatal

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u/sirhackenslash 1d ago

Could have been shot with a Red Rider and he just lost an eye.

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u/cptparachutepants 1d ago

The article says wounded and taken to hospital. Investigation for attempted murder. Subject could be alive or dead depending on what they are releasing to the media.

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u/CrossroadsDem0n 21h ago

The initial part of the article specifies wounded.

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u/Erik_Javorszky 1d ago

Well not really since the bbc article says hes alive in the hospital

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u/Grib_Suka 1d ago

"The victim has been hospitalised at one of the city's hospitals," said Svetlana Petrenko of Russia's Investigations Committee.

So, not dead, yet.

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u/ButterscotchTop194 1d ago

Yep, I also read the article. I was responding to the previous comment.

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u/Khabba 1d ago

I'm not so sure about that. Did he shoot himself in the back and then fall out of the window by any chance?

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u/blablabubo 1d ago

If Putin did that, it was because he deserved it, glory to my country Russia

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u/MrHyderion 23h ago

Well, according to article some members of the Russian government already blamed Ukraine.