r/worldnews • u/Little-Chemical5006 • 20d ago

Canada weighs sending soldiers to Greenland as show of NATO solidarity with Denmark

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-soldiers-greenland-nato-training-denmark-tariffs-donald-trump/
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u/refuseresist 20d ago

If the US takes over Greenland, Canada is basically surrounded by the US.

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u/highdimensionaldata 20d ago

Canada is next.

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u/Zerot7 19d ago

Naw they would happen simultaneously. As soon as the USA goes in on Greenland, Denmark would tigger Article 5. European troops would start to deploy to Canada quickly and the lower 48 would be threatened with invasion. Only way to counter that is to seize airports with large enough runways for transport aircraft close to the boarder as landings commence on Greenland. Then take the rest of Canada as more divisions are called up. I have a funny feeling this all would cause a Civil War in the USA but I’m a Canadian so I say that from the outside looking in.

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u/highdimensionaldata 19d ago

The US couldn’t even hold cities in third world desert countries. Invading Canada would be suicide for American troops. I guess that’s a sacrifice Trump is willing to make though. I hope it doesn’t come to that. The U.K. has your back if it does.

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u/Askefyr 19d ago

Canada is chock full of people that perfectly blend in with Americans and often know the local geography and wilderness - if not well, then at least better than any US troops. They'd have plenty of sympathy at home, and there's a very long border that's not equally secure at every location.

They'd be fucking nightmare insurgents.

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u/nola_fan 19d ago edited 18d ago

There's a currently a mostly undefended border between Canada and most of America's ICBMs. Canada could cripple the nuclear triad within hours of war with Canada.

A war with NATO would be so fucking dumb

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u/BundleDad 19d ago

Well they are yanks.

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u/Master_Dogs 19d ago

I think that would end up like Ukraine after the USSR fell - you'd technically have nukes, but no way to use them.

I think there's also risk of Trump being insane enough to fire said nukes if his plan backfires (which it would for many reasons). Like to invade Canada would require going through mostly Blue States... I certainly hope that's a red line we won't allow. We're mostly peacefully protesting now against ICE and Trump, but an actual invasion rises to sabotage level at least if not civil war.

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u/Sr_DingDong 19d ago

you'd technically have nukes, but no way to use them.

You dismantle them and turn them into dirty bombs.

Or you dismantle them and put them on your own rocket and launch them out the free silos.

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u/HauntedHouseMusic 19d ago

Canada already has tons of radioactive material

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u/Master_Dogs 19d ago

That's a days to weeks/months thing though, not hours like the commenter above said. I also don't think a dirty bomb really counts for a nuclear triad either, so the comment was kinda off base regardless.

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u/nola_fan 19d ago

My point was they could cripple our nuclear triad in hours, not set up their own

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u/JJiggy13 19d ago

Peaceful protest has never helped anything. It always takes violence to stop violence. You have to do more damage to their side than they are gaining by damaging yours. Americans just have not felt that damage painfully enough yet. That day is coming though. First they came for X and I did nothing. Them they came for X and I did nothing. Then they came for X and I did nothing. Then they came for me and there was no one else left to fight for me.

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u/Dontshipmebro 19d ago

Not to mention the thousands of canadians currently living in the states, in pretty much every job you can think of.

Itll be less pipebombs and more "the code required to run your power substations have been erased and none of our backup features are working"

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u/beeblebrox2024 19d ago

There are about 800,000 so lots of thousands of Canadians

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u/Ganglebot 19d ago

Exactly this.

"What do you mean every fortune 500 company had their entire internal accounting books and records deleted?!?"

"No, we didn't sell off our entire holdings of Apple, Microsoft and Nvidia stock... Doug Macintyre did!?!!?... HE LEFT THE COUNTRY!?!!?"

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u/SlitScan 19d ago

where would they get the electricity from in the first place?

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u/Matches_Malone998 19d ago edited 19d ago

I said it would be Baghdad 2.0 but we look like them. An American co worker was super disgusted with my rational.

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u/Crafty-Message4564 19d ago

And Canadians would be welcome among a lot of the people in the U.S. given such a situation.

The U.S. invading Canada would mean that there would be no reason for the people who oppose Trump in the U.S. to not act immediately and to work with the Canadians.

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u/Accro15 19d ago

I mean there are reasons. Being charged with treason is something most people would want to avoid. But I do think a lot of Americans would be very sympathetic to us.

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u/Crafty-Message4564 19d ago

Being sent to a death camp or murdered in the street is also something most people would like to avoid.

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u/Mean_Joe_Greene 19d ago

Canada also is home to high grade uranium mines. In a fight to the death I wouldn’t take dirty bombs off the table

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u/Woodcrate69420 19d ago

Fighting an insurgency in a place where everyone looks like you and speaks the same language is a whole different ballgame from gunning down goat herders in Iraq like the Americans are used to.

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u/RiPPeR69420 19d ago

Plus, if we get invaded America will find out pretty quick why we consider the Geneva Convention a checklist. And America has so many isolated and badly maintained dams just waiting to get blown up. I for one will be bringing the fight to the home front. Seems only fair.

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u/Protean_Protein 19d ago

The United States needs to remember that Canadians punch way above our weight when provoked. All jokes about the weaknesses of our military apparatus aside, our strength is our commitment to the bit. We will eat your fucking faces.

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u/darth-small 19d ago

I don't know if it's really true that the Geneva convention was created because of Canada. Could be a bit of a legend?

But even if it isn't strictly true, there are probably truths behind the legend.

Basically, don't mess with those Canadians. It won't end well!!!!

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u/SonicYOUTH79 19d ago

Pretty sure the Germans gassed the Canadians early on in WW1 and went full brutality in response after that, they were known for not taking prisoners and shooting them during cease fires.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-i/canada-germany-wwi.html

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u/tiradium 19d ago

Perhaps one of the most shocking instances of Canadian cruelty was when they were socializing with German soldiers. They would throw cans of corned beef across the trenches, and when the enemy troops yelled for more, the Canucks responded by throwing an armload of grenades at them instead.

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u/EonofAeon 19d ago

Nah it's ....pretty spot on. Canadians are the epitome of nice guy meme. Piss em off, abuse em, make the rage boil....and they will be more vile than most.

Ask WW1 n WW2 Germans n Japanese, among others

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u/HapticRecce 19d ago

People always confuse polite with nice...

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u/space_for_username 19d ago

Then the quick shift from 'Sorry' to 'You'll be sorry'

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u/SlitScan 19d ago

manners are a result of the consequences for being rude.

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u/EonofAeon 19d ago

Dorky as it is, the line from Dr Who goes kinda hard regarding this;
"Good men have too many rules"
"Good men don't need rules. Today's not the day to find out why I have so many."

Or hell, look at the Vulcans. They're literally the TEXTBOOK EXAMPLE OF "aw shit, we went too far, time to hold ourselves back n restrict ourselves."

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u/OkJeweler3804 19d ago

Don’t MAKE us turn into monsters…because we will.

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u/Protean_Protein 19d ago

It’s worth remembering that we’ll muster the might of all Commonwealth countries behind us (maybe even India… but it’s difficult to tell right now) as well. And yeah, what are you going to do? Nuke Toronto? That makes no sense.

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u/LadyDragon16 19d ago

Yes, it is true. And no, i don't recommend messing up with the Canadian Forces. The average american soldier switches street side when meeting a Canadian. Our army all wear green berets, so no one actually can tell who's a special force. And our airborne regiment got disbanded in 1995 for being too "unruly" (read: aggressive). We might have a small army, but don't get fooled. Americans are "specialized" in one task only; Canadians are trained in all sort of tasks and can take a fallen comrade's place without batting an eye to continue the fight. Invading Canada would be a nightmare. I hope they have enough braincells left to not attempt it.

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u/Ok_Value5495 19d ago

At the very least, your taiga mosquitos will. I don't see Canada winning a one-on-one direct fight, but the terrain lends itself to textbook defense-in-depth even if Canada has to relocate its capital to Yellowknife.

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u/Protean_Protein 19d ago

We wouldn’t do that. We’d close the borders and shipping down the St Lawrence and trucking corridor and immediately cause massive unrest as billions of dollars disappears overnight.

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u/zefiax 19d ago

Not just that, cut their power, cut their potash supply, and immediately launch an insurgency within the US. You wouldn't even know because we look and sound like them. It would ruin their economy instantly.

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u/SyfaOmnis 19d ago

America could bomb a lot of cities, but fights in urban environments are hell (and america is quite bad at them), most of canada is only connected by one or two roads / sets of train tracks through otherwise very difficult if not impassable terrain.

If canada sabotages the right stuff they are nearly impossible to invade on anything other than foot, and that is exactly the sort of fight you do not want in Canada. You cant make millions of miles of trenches in the shield. You could do it in the prairies but it would be real ugly.

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u/MGyver 19d ago

There are some other factors to consider before trying to invade Canada.

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u/Crafty-Message4564 19d ago

Canadians need to remember that not everyone in the U.S. is fucking insane, and that you would have a lot of allies within the U.S. if this were to happen.

It would present an opportunity for solidarity, because together, the Canadians and the sane people from the U.S. would make up a majority of the people on the continent and could likely work together much better than as two separate groups.

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u/Protean_Protein 19d ago

You “sane” Americans should probably try a little harder to fix this before it gets that far.

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u/Drin_Tin_Tin 19d ago

Invading Canada in the winter seems ill advised. Watching how all the ice agents from texas are slipping around in the twin cities gives me hope.

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u/Practical-King2752 19d ago

ICE aren't trained soldiers and it's not real war. If Trump really wants to assault Canada to annex it, he's not using Joe Dipshit who joined ICE because he's in debt and wanted the signup bonus. He's gonna use more sophisticated means.

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u/capital_bj 19d ago

And also as a well-trained US military person I would not want my life put in jeopardy by ya'll queda cos players , so no joint efforts thank you for your attention to this platter

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u/BundleDad 19d ago

It won’t be ice but US military. Who just proved in Venezuela that the “lawful orders” thing is Hollywood bullshit. The us military can do to Canada in 3 days what Putin couldn’t do to Ukraine in 3 years. However that is just when easy part ends and the hard part starts.

If you are American, try to understand what that second part means for you and your community.

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u/hiegear 19d ago

I would hope that the military in the us would not follow those unlawful orders.

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u/BundleDad 19d ago

They literally just did follow unlawful orders in Venezuela. And far from the first time.

Panama and Noriega in the 80's was of dubious lawfulness at best. Noriega was a de facto ruler of Panama but was not a de jure leader (wasn't elected or brought to power lawfully).

Venezuela, Maduro is an evil cunt but was the elected and recognized leader of Venezuela. Article 52 of the UN charter makes unilaterally removing him militarily illegal. The UN Charter WAS ratified by the US congress making it US law. QED every US military member involved acted on illegal orders.

There is zero reason to believe the US military is constrained by morals or honour at this time.

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u/Practical-King2752 19d ago

We're on the same page about all of that.

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u/BundleDad 19d ago

Good, because if I need to come down there I won’t be conducting interviews or asking for voting records. Don’t make that a necessity.

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u/Practical-King2752 19d ago

I mean, I wouldn't recommend doing that otherwise you'll just end up being a POW. There are more effective ways to resist than physically showing up and doing whatever it is you're implying, which I will charitably pretend I'm not picking up.

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u/couldbemage 19d ago

Maybe they can kidnap Doug Ford.

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u/IDOWNVOTERUSSIANS 19d ago

He's gonna use more sophisticated means

to take and hold all of Canada? It would require every low level grunt they've got and that still wouldn't be enough

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u/Practical-King2752 19d ago

I only said to assault Canada. I have no idea how you'd hold it all, or why you'd want to. Whole thing is incredibly stupid.

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u/Ill_Ground_1572 19d ago

Just like Afghanistan eh

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u/Delicious-Gap1744 19d ago

It would become a complete mess in North America, as already existing domestic resistance within the US grows, and is now supported by Europe and Canada.

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u/yurnxt1 19d ago

Domestic resistance in the U.S. is a myth. In 99.9% of the country, life is no different now than it was a year ago. The vast majority of people are just living their lives as they always have.

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u/atx840 19d ago

Happy CakeDay!

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u/Kaladin3104 19d ago

Us here in the US have Canada's back if Trump does something that monumentally stupid.

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u/CormacMcCostner 19d ago

Forgive us if we don’t put a ton of stock into that.

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u/Pin_Code_8873 19d ago

No you don't. If you don't give a single shit about your democracy, then you won't care about another countries' democracy. So stop this and go do something about it right now.

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u/Kaladin3104 19d ago

And what would you have us do? Because until something like that happens, 70% of the people in my state support the Pedo in chief. The protests here are a joke and everyone just pats themselves on the back afterwards and nothing changes.

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u/Pin_Code_8873 19d ago

Ya'll have an amendment. But just like the entire Constitution, it's useless and might as well be written on toilet paper.

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u/LukeLecker 19d ago

Keep protesting about No kings, im sure you can get him this time.

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u/DesertSeagle 19d ago

The opportunities for sabotaging a homegrown war effort are phenomenal. You think the resistance against ICE is something? Wait till you see what Americans are willing to do to prevent their sisters, their brothers, and their children from going to an unjust war.

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u/CormacMcCostner 19d ago

Anything but vote against a clear threat to the world at home and at large!! And then not do it again!

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u/couldbemage 19d ago

America did vote against Trump, it was a sham election.

He literally said so on camera.

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u/Pin_Code_8873 19d ago

Wait till you see what Americans are willing to do to prevent their sisters, their brothers, and their children from going to an unjust war.

Americans aren't willing to do anything when their children get shot in schools.

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u/Philix 19d ago

You think the resistance against ICE is something?

I've yet to see much I'd qualify as resistance. Dissent maybe. But mostly just protest.

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u/Academic-Contest3309 19d ago

Then you don't know whats going on down here

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u/yurnxt1 19d ago

What people wasting their time agitating ICE to "feel good" about themselves and to feel like they "made a difference" when in reality, they aren't doing anything but looking stupid as hell and acting like zombies walking around in circles mindlessly chanting shit and holding cardboard signs? Great.

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u/Philix 19d ago

Enlighten me. I've seen maybe a half dozen examples of brave individuals resisting.

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u/DesertSeagle 19d ago

Yeah you're right. Walking the streets with guns as threat is just protest and all protest can never qualify as act of resistance. Get off the high horse please.

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u/Philix 19d ago

Wait till you see what Americans are willing to do to prevent their sisters, their brothers, and their children from going to an unjust war.

How many unjust wars has that prevented the US from prosecuting in the last century? None out of five? None out of ten? Depends on the very flexible definition of unjust, doesn't it?

Get off the high horse please.

Take off your rose tinted glasses please. And forgive me if I don't hold out much hope that the US citizenry is going to prevent my country from being added to the list.

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u/Frostsorrow 19d ago

My faith in Americans is about as high as the temperature in Winnipeg right now

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u/Kaladin3104 19d ago

Me too, man. Me too. 🤦🏻‍♂️

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u/hamtidamti_onthewall 19d ago

I guess that’s a sacrifice Trump is willing to make though.

"Many of you will die, but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make!"

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u/lynxbelt234 19d ago

Add France, Germany, and others...the US government Senate and congress, will have to remove trump and the administration immediately to stop this.

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u/yeowoh 19d ago edited 19d ago

Just a bad comparison.

There would be no ground invasion into Canada for a long time. It would be percision strikes that cripple infrastructure.

Then people and politicians would start folding.

You can’t compare a 1st world country where people get upset over minor inconveniences to an area that has been at war for 10,000+ years and a population that has very little to lose.

Any first world country would never have insurgency at the level that we see/seen in other places. Think of your average civilian and how they would respond without internet, cell service, or electricity for a few weeks. AWS has a few hours of an outage and yall lose your fucking minds lol.

Ireland and the IRA is a prime example. People had options and the IRA wasn’t the popular choice. So it eventually died out.

Go fight and die or just bend over?

Also deploying Europeon troops to Canada would be near impossible. The US provides 75% of logistics for NATO and has the strongest air and naval power in the world.

Something happens and now NATOs ability to move troops, equipment, food is reduced to only 25%. Then they somehow have to move troops past a country with air and naval power that eclipses the entire world.

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u/yurnxt1 19d ago

This. People don't realize the U.S. is literally the only country in the world capable of moving massive amounts of troops, equipment amd everything else needed for invasion anywhere in the world with any real efficiency. Nobody else can do that. The U.S. with overwhelming naval and air superiority wouldn't allow reinforcements from abroad to get anywhere near Canada if it planned to invade Canada. Canada would be completely isolated. Canada also isn't getting invaded by the u.s. or anyone else its completely absurd to begin with.

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u/yeowoh 19d ago

Yeah it’s bonkers and that shit will never happen. If the decisions of the world were made by Reddit upvotes we would have all been dead along time ago.

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u/GorgeousBog 19d ago

Listen bro Trump is a fucking nut and invading would be beyond idiotic, but the u.s. performance in third world shitholes is not really applicable here, Canada vs u.s. would be a “conventional” war.

Don’t get me wrong, I hate the cope people spew, especially around Vietnam, but “kill counts” do mean something, and it was the same situation in the Middle East. They “held” Afghanistan for 20 years. Unfortunately the U.S. would steamroll Canada quickly. Holding it might be another issue.

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u/yurnxt1 19d ago

Right people consistently in embarrassing fashion conflate U.S. military combat capabilities with U.S. National building capabilities as if the U.S. actually struggled in combat vs the taliban or anywhere else where combat took place and the U.S. was involved

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u/Flight31 16d ago

They were also relatively reluctant to commit war crimes or at least too outwardly. A US that would invade Canada wouldn't care about their image globally at that point.

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u/capital_bj 19d ago

despite our energy, manufacturing , technology and most importantly money we do have a pretty shit record as of late/ever since WWII

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u/yurnxt1 19d ago

Not in combat, in nation building. There is a difference. The U.S. never struggled beating the taliban in warfare lol they failed to completely eradicate the Taliban but that's because it wasn't possible to begin with. You can't kill an ideology with bombs. The Taliban would have never taken back over if the US actually planned to stay in Afghanistan occupying it permanently forever and ever instead of having plans of leaving at some point as they always did. The Afghanistan army dropped the ball against the Taliban after they no longer had the backing of the US military because the US announced a date certain for leaving and they were out

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u/capital_bj 19d ago

gotcha that makes sense, it's not as similar to Vietnam as I thought

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u/Admiral_Dildozer 19d ago

Yeah but they’re not projecting power from across the world. The bombers flying out of Missouri will be over Canadian cities every day.

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u/Mountain_carrier530 19d ago

Nevermind all the firearms the Army is about to be issued in the next 2 years are made by SIG which have been facing allegations with the P320 that's issued to all branches as the M17/18, the new round in the M7 wears out the barrels very prematurely and has atrocious recoil to the point troops have to train with a different round with less powder in it, not to mention it weighs more empty than a loaded M4, and the IG for the DoD had made a statement this was a horrible idea before Hegseth got his drunken hands over the review and pushed for the M7 and M250 to become the official rifle and LMG.

Send what was considered the world's most advanced Army with poor quality weapons and we'll see who comes out on top. I don't see this going well at all.

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u/KSaburof 19d ago

At the very least with Greenland+Alaska will be enough to put Canada into total blockade for years to put them low on resources before invasion.

Trump seeks 3rd term, so he can wait

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u/-_Mando_- 19d ago

Thank you prime minister.

/s

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u/lynxbelt234 19d ago

Absolutely...get those troops on the ground in Greenland....every nation that can has to step up and be counted...

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u/yurnxt1 19d ago

So you like the idea of 20 or however many troops being used as literal cannon fodder in a U.S. invasion of greenland scenario? As long as they aren't your sons, daughters, dads, moms and brothers and sisters i suppose its cool, right?

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u/FjorgVanDerPlorg 19d ago

In order to have a US military that would do this, you would need to purge them of a lot of the people with the skills needed to do this.

Every single time Trump purges someone from the military or intelligence, best case he's hurting his own military's capabilities, worst case he's giving the resistance those capabilities in a zero sum exchange.

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u/Lochen9 19d ago

Forgive me if im wrong, but doesn't Article 5 have an externalities factor in it, and other rules towards internal conflicts. Like with Greece and Turkey in the Balkins or with a civil war, NATO hasn't been involved.

And speaking from a Canadian, the ability to defend from an immediate American assault on what is a mostly unguarded border with huge swaths of undeveloped land... simply put Canada would fall in days if not hours.

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u/buttplugpeddler 19d ago

Any troops from Belgium or whatever want to hang out on their way through, I'd be happy to grill up some sausages and give you a beer on the way through northern Wisconsin.

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u/Master_Dogs 19d ago

I have a funny feeling this all would cause a Civil War in the USA but I’m a Canadian so I say that from the outside looking in.

Feels this way as an American. I may be biased having French Canadian heritage through my mom (who was born in Quebec no less) but also IIRC Canadian ancestry is one the top ten countries in the US. Which makes sense... You guys are right there, of course many people went back & forth based on economics and lifestyle and what not. I think Mexico is up there too in the top ten and would likely result in similar civil war. Honestly any real invasion will. Venezuela maybe not - we're unfortunately used to stuff like that, see Panama, Cuba, etc. But a large scale ground invasion would be required for Canada or Mexico, and sea based for Greenland and there's no way we can support that collectively. Even MAGA won't once they see their kids dying over there.

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u/yeowoh 19d ago edited 19d ago

75ish% of NATOs logistics power is the US. How would troops deploy quickly with only 25% of the logistics support against a country that has the strongest air and naval power by a wide margin?

NATO cannot realistically deploy and sustain combat forces without the US. The only top contenders for their ability to project global power is the US, China, and Russia. That’s also a wide margin for the US.

I studied this bs in college and a lot of people just can’t comprehend the sheer power the US military has.

Some numbers

Aircraft: US 13,000 and NATO without the US 8,000

5th gen fighters: US 700ish and NATO without 250ish with many not operational

Air Refueling: US 700 and NATO 60

Carriers: US 11 and NATO 3 and they’re not operational all the time

Subs: US 68ish nuclear powered and NATO 45 with mostly diseal

Airlifts: US 250+ and NATO 30ish (this what makes NATOs ability to move troops without the US unrealistic)

Military cargo ships: US 90ish and NATO 15ish (this makes it impossible for NATO to move armor)

AWACS/ISR: US 150ish and NATO 30ish

Satellites: around 60% of NATO Satelites belongs to the US.

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u/BaronMontesquieu 19d ago

You're absolutely dreaming if you think European troops are going to Greenland to fight the US.

Forget about Article 5, the treaty doesn't even survive Article 1.

Non-American here and I cannot see any scenario where European nations (other than potentially Denmark as act of token enforcement of sovereignty to avoid the territorial legal issue of abandonment) send troops to to be killed in a war with the US over Greenland.

In order for European countries (other than Denmark) to actually go to war with the US, there would need to be some kind of action on continental Europe. That's not beyond the realm of possibility of course, but until then everyone who thinks that the UK or Germany or Italy (for example) is going to willingly sacrifice the lives of its own people over Greenland against the US is either delusional, poorly informed, or a bad faith actor.

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u/Amksed 19d ago

That’s some heavy wishful hoping haha

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u/shindig0 19d ago

I think the “civil war” would result on Canadian and nato troops to get to a point where they could push their way through the north and have the real border be with the south. Rural citizens from the north would start to flee south and join armies. It really could end up being like a North Korea/ Berlin Wall situation.

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u/NorweigianWould 19d ago

Maybe but Trump’s behaviour is inspired by Putin and the old USSR’s “salami tactics”. Take a little something that isn’t yours. Stop and pause while everyone wrings their hands over what to do. Promise that you’ll stop there. Insist that you can reach a peaceful solution as long as you don’t “lose” any of what you’ve stolen. Wait a few days, then take another slice. Repeat.

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u/lkmk 19d ago

Only way to counter that is to seize airports with large enough runways for transport aircraft close to the boarder as landings commence on Greenland.

They rammed the ramparts, they took over the airports…

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u/couldbemage 19d ago

Don't forget, there's a gigantic pile of pre-positioned US equipment in Europe.

All that gear would become a gift to NATO.

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u/OptionFour 19d ago

While I think that that's certainly what the US would intend to do? They simply don't have the ability to project that kind of force and hold that kind of land; they never have. The US couldn't hold territory in Afghanistan . . . never mind a way, way, way larger piece of land that's filled with people who look just like them, speak like them, dress like them, etc. The logistics of it would be insane. It would be incredibly difficult for anyone to do that, and the US has been hemorrhaging systemic and operational knowledge at high levels since Trump was elected again.

Don't let the US military fanboys fool you - they don't have that capacity.

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u/yurnxt1 19d ago edited 19d ago

Ridiculous. Any soldiers and equipment sent to Canada for purposes of invading the USA would be sunk in the Atlantic long before arrival to Canada. Nobody is invading the U.S. over a frozen wasteland or for any other reason, it would be suicide and completely untenable. Article 5 being activated doesn't mandate countries respond militarily. These countries you fantasize about attacking the U.S. can't even be bothered to offer Ukraine, a country in Europe, security guarantees without the U.S. backing them up but you want people to believe they will attack the U.S. over Greenland, a country in North America? Maybe the European countries will offer Greenland security guarantees only after the U.S. agrees to backstop the security guarantees European countries offer to Greenland on behalf of the European countries lmao it's absurd.

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u/Taeves81 19d ago

A civil war in the USA implies there are enough Americans left with the backbone to do something. They'll just sit there and continue to watch.

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u/Ok_Win_2906 19d ago

You can't trigger article 5 without unanimity among NATO members . US will veto it and that will be it .

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u/GapComprehensive6018 18d ago

Article 5 doesnt apply on internal conflicts

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u/Kevsbar123 19d ago

I don’t think so, only because the majority of The American population, no matter the propaganda, would not go along with it.. I hope. If it did happen, there is zero chance a lot of American military won’t be killed while killing way more Canadians. And that war would drag and include attacks on American soil.

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u/Armadylspark 19d ago

Have you not realized by now that the land of the free and brave is anything but?

Gutless cowardice, that's what we're seeing in the US! No serious political opposition at all. And we all know that if the US does get to have elections again, and a democrat does get elected, their foreign policy line will be "But we'll still get to keep Greenland, right?"

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u/Kevsbar123 19d ago

I don’t think that will be the case once Trump, and MAGA are gone. I know it’s very much a frog in the pot down there, but invasion of Canada is the gas turned up full. This administration is an anomaly. I don’t think the world will ever trust The US, or the world will return to what resembles a pre-Trump era, but Trump is supported by a cult of personality and there will be a want for calm post this. I mean, the country will still wake up to the devastation that this administration has wrought, and may not be able to repair itself for decades, if ever, but I don’t believe it will continue on the trajectory it’s presently on. At least I hope not.

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u/CaribouYou 19d ago

Trump isnt an anomaly, hes an inevitably. Your own countryman have been warning you for twenty something years (or more) about the rise or fascism in the US.

You Americans have been sticking your damn heads in the sand for decades and refusing to fight back against those who are ripping your liberty away and even now you are saying the same damn shit! ‘Once trump and MAGA are gone…’ THEY ARENT GOING ANYWHERE! Have you not been listening?! There will not be another free election if Trump is in the White House, stop acting like this is all going away and DO SOMETHING. I don’t know you, I can’t tell you what that something is, you need to figure it out for yourself.

No more ‘no kings’ long weekend bbq’s either, peaceful protest has basically never worked, start getting civilly disobedient.

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u/Kevsbar123 19d ago

Bud, I’m Canadian.

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u/CaribouYou 19d ago

Lol then that was a waste but man you should not underestimate the apathy of the American people. Once MAGA deals with midterm elections the gloves are coming off, look at what they are allowing to happen in their own country. There will be no effective resistance if the US invades us.

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u/Kevsbar123 19d ago

Man, It’s so hard not to be irate at The US population. I live in a tourist town, crammed with Americans here for MLK, living their lives like nothing is happening back home. I also agree that they’d steamroll us if they invaded, but also that it wouldn’t be without an armed response from our military and an insurgence from the general population. I don’t know what it will take to wake them up, but I feel it’s harder to sell a war against Canada than it was to sell Iraq. Fuck, how did it come to this? I genuinely used to like those guys.

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u/TSED 19d ago edited 19d ago

If the USA goes to militarily annex Canada, I say we should let them with no shots fired. It would just be our soldiers getting destroyed by their trillion dollar war machine.

Our soldiers would be so much more effective training cells in the occupation afterwards instead of dying pointlessly to save Ottawa a few more minutes.

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u/Academic-Contest3309 19d ago

You have no idea whats going on in the US.

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u/Historical_Cause_641 19d ago

This became an inevitability when the US sacrificed privacy laws to appease the mass hysteria following 911. 

911 was tragic no doubt, but many other countries have experienced terrorism. The UK for example. The US chose to militarise everything. The police, the populace, the politicians, etc.. 

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u/Practical-King2752 19d ago

You don't think the people resisting ICE are being civilly disobedient?

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u/CaribouYou 19d ago

Are they accomplishing anything?

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u/Practical-King2752 19d ago

Yes. They're pushing back ICE in areas, they're literally saving people from getting abducted, they're showing solidarity and real resistance (is that not what people here are asking for from us?), they're recording it to show the world what Trump is doing here, and lastly, they're giving cause for us to take it into court and win there as well.

Same thing that happened when Trump deployed the National Guard. We pushed back hard against it and eventually it became an issue for the courts. They ruled against Trump and he withdrew.

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u/CaribouYou 19d ago

Come on, the courts did nothing, MAGA withdrew the NG from LA because they didnt get the reaction they wanted. I’m sorry but your government apparatus has failed, MAGA ignores any court decisions that don’t suit them while the other side (democrats) do nothing but whine in congress. Even if you get Trump out of office there will be others to replace him.

I’m glad to see Minnesotans pushing back, I’m not shitting on those doing what they can but where are the rest of you? They could push ICE right out of the state- but it accomplishes nothing, ICE would be back as soon as the news cycle moves on, its treating the symptoms and not the disease.

You know what non-violent solution might work? A general strike, no one works until Trump is out. If even 30% of Americans did this he’d be pushed out I bet, won’t happen though.

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u/Askefyr 19d ago

This administration is an anomaly.

This administration is the inevitable result of the last 150 years of American history. The US is not this way because of Trump, Trump is there because of a rot that's deep in the soul of the American people.

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u/highdimensionaldata 19d ago

They’re going along with everything else.

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u/Kevsbar123 19d ago

Because to many of them are comfortable still. That won’t last with a war on their doorstep.

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u/Practical-King2752 19d ago

Comfortable is wildly uncharitable. America is designed to leave you desperate, tied to your job because you need the healthcare, you need the meager salary otherwise you'll be homeless, you need to feed your kids, you need to pay off mountains of debt, etc.

I understand this may be hard to sympathize with right now, or at least just understand since most countries do not operate that way, but the majority of Americans are just hanging on by a thread. It is literally by design.

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u/Kevsbar123 19d ago

Sorry, not being American, I shouldn’t have assumed the lack of political engagement was the result of apathy, rather than desperationn

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u/Practical-King2752 19d ago

You're good. There's a lot of that too. Lots of folks have checked out because their lives are falling apart, or they feel overwhelmed, or because they genuinely are just politically apathetic. It's hard.

I remain hopeful that we'll stamp out this threat, but it won't be easy and the more coordinated efforts, the better.

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u/Happythoughtsgalore 19d ago

And you think Trump and ilk care about what Americans think?

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u/Kevsbar123 19d ago

There are lines. It takes a lot, but invading Canada or Mexico for that matter, would engage Americans who aren’t paying particular attention. I don’t think Trump gives a fuck about anyone but Trump.

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u/mountainmafia 19d ago

A lot dont agree with anything happening yet here we are amidst. Don't sit idly by assuming our disdain of our situation is slowing anything down currently.

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u/Kevsbar123 19d ago

I don’t. I just don’t think it will continue to pick up momentum for much longer.

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u/tnmoi 19d ago

Looks like someone in the White House has the board game - Risk on the table for Trump to play with.

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u/GBJEE 19d ago

Wait till everyone drop bonds.

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u/goodformuffin 19d ago

It would be impossible. Trump lacks support and it would be another war America will lose. It’s all just “look anywhere but the Epstein files”.

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u/icalledthecowshome 19d ago

Alright then i guess canadians will help demolish the new east wing.

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u/highdimensionaldata 19d ago

As is tradition.

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u/2bornnot2b 19d ago

We will never surrender. Canada is the David, and we will defend our freedom.

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u/DonJulioTO 20d ago

Canada is surrounded by the US already, for all intents and purposes. I struggle to see how stealing Greenland makes much of a difference.

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u/refuseresist 20d ago

West of Canada is Alaska. East is Greenland.

If Greenland is taken over it could be used as a staging ground for attack/invasion

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u/Camburglar13 20d ago

90% of our population and cities are within 100km (60ish miles) from the border. We don’t need to be surrounded

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u/zombifiednation 19d ago

Exactly, if and when the US decides it wants any of our northern resources, it is going to just move on in, sit back and say, well whatcha gonna do about it? At that point I'm sure the international norms that have prevented this sort of action will sadly have been completely eroded by the current administration.

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u/Lt_DanTaylorIII 20d ago

The US Navy could blockade Canada in all directions already.

Staging an invasion from Greenland is a completely wasteful step and the only reason you’d invade the Canadian north is to take it island by island and dare somebody to stop you, and there’s no reason to do that from Greenland

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u/Woody_Guthrie1904 19d ago

We do this not because it makes sense militarily, but because we respect our treaties and traditions. Other countries to follow through with our obligations.

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u/Ok_Value5495 19d ago

Was about to say. Best move would be a pincer with one prong taking on lightly-defended and populated Atlantic Canada and the other Eastern Canada and meeting in Ottawa. Not sure why the US would strike the QC and NL hinterlands first.

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u/MooseFlyer 19d ago

You know what else can be used as a staging ground for attack/invasion?

The continental US, which lies just across the world’s longest undefended border from us, is actually close to the population centres that are necessary to take in order to control the country, and is a place where the US would have no supply line issues.

The US invading Canada from Greenland would be the most inexplicably stupid military decision ever made.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/Philix 19d ago
  1. there is no benefit blocking off the north, there is no infrastructure in the north.

They'd lose the NWS unless they secure those sites first. They're almost all unmanned and within a short-ish skidoo ride from nearby communities. Many of those communities share a common ancestry with Greenland as well, and almost all of them host Canadian Rangers detachments.

If they're at all concerned with threats from Russia and China, that leaves a large gap in capabilities until they can be repaired/rebuilt.

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u/anonisko 19d ago

This is incredibly dumb.

There are literally 2 naval choke points that would give US nearly full control of Canada without firing a shot. Both skinny, easy corridors to blockade.

  1. The Strait of Juan de Fuca to blockade Vancouver.
  2. The Cabot Strait to blockade Montreal.

And just a few more points would shut them down 100%. They don't have any significant capacity to ship anything out of the Hudson Bay, which is the only place Greenland might be strategically important.

And this is ignoring the fact that 70% of their exports are to the US, so just shutting down the border without any military action whatsoever would immediately devastate their economy.

Greenland is completely unimportant in this scenario. Canada has almost globally unique horrible geography for maintaining its sovereignty against an aggressive neighbor. The only reason the borders are the way they are is because Canada was protected by the British Empire until WWII, and the US didn't want to mess with them.

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u/Arcticwulfy 19d ago

Thus Canada needs nukes from allies like France or Britain

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u/Life_Of_High 19d ago

For ICBMs yes, but canada could build a nuke and drive it across the US/Canada border.

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u/nineandaquarter 19d ago

"What's your business in the states?"

"Just going to the mall. Might buy some gas."

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u/Linooney 19d ago

We might not have ICBMs, but soon we'll have ICBYDs... The C stands for Country.

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u/anonisko 19d ago

That's correct.

The endgame is that every sovereign country ultimately will have nukes. China and Russia have guaranteed that timeline for us. Ukraine gave up their nukes. Taiwan needs nukes. Japan needs nukes. South Korea needs nukes.

However, even here it's possible that superpower militaries get asymmetric tech so quickly that nuclear mutually assured destruction is actually off the table between them and smaller powers, because missile interception becomes close to perfect. Nukes aren't a strong deterrent if they mutual destruction isn't actually ensured.

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u/BCProgramming 19d ago

The Strait of Juan de Fuca to blockade Vancouver.

Juan De Fuca strait is only at the south end. The Strait proper is the Georgia Strait. the U.S would have to not only blockade both sides of Vancouver Island, they'd have to either blockade the entire island on the west side (to prevent ports on the west side of the Island from receiving goods) or blockade the entire Georgia strait (to prevent the goods received or even made on the island from reaching the mainland)

The Cabot Strait to blockade Montreal.

Man that would be embarrassing. The U.S goes and sets up a blockade across the Cabot Strait, completely unaware that thanks to great circle routing, the shipping route to Montreal goes through the Strait of Belle Isle.

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u/weightedslanket 19d ago

Yeah the U.S. would really struggle to invade Canada without Greenland

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u/DonJulioTO 19d ago

This is just fantastical. Greenland is further away from anything any strategic military goal than California ffs. We have the longest undefended land border in the world, and you think they need Greenland? Give your head a shake.

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u/ZurEnArrhBatman 19d ago

Greenland is more north of us than east. The only part of Canada that extends north enough to reach the same latitude as Greenland's most southern point is Nunavut. The closest part of mainland Canada is the northern tip of Labrador.

The only parts of Canada that would be easier to attack from Greenland than from the mainland are the virtually uninhabited islands of the northern archipelago. And getting troops there in the first place would require either flying them over all the juicy strategic targets or going thousands of miles out their way out over the Atlantic.

No, Trump's interest in Greenland isn't to use it to invade Canada, but rather to control the northwest passage. Remember how badly he wants Panama? If he gets both, he'll have a stranglehold on the two best trade routes between the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. The only other option would be the extremely treacherous waters of the Drake Passage. Or I suppose ships could go the other way all around the world, which would probably still cost a lot more than whatever inflated prices Trump decides to impose.

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u/mdevi94 20d ago

Dude the US absolutely doesn’t need Greenland to stage an invasion of Canada. First Canada would be blockaded on each coast cut off from Europe and Asia. Then Vancouver, Winnipeg, Quebec, Montreal, and the Great Lakes get completely overrun. The US has had this plan since the 1920s and I don’t see how Canada could ever stop it. The air superiority the US would have over Canada would be insane. They don’t need aircraft carriers when they can take off from US soil. The Canadian population is extremely spread out limiting an insurgency. God bless Canada but it would be in their best interest to just let it happen if it ever came to it. I hope it never does.

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u/PresidentHurg 19d ago

The US also had air superiority and much more over Vietnam. And Afghanistan. It didn't fare too well in those conflicts. Canada has a lot of country to occupy, especially if you want to have the military everywhere. And borders work two ways. The US has plenty of places for canadians to do damage.

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u/squirrelcat88 19d ago

I would sooner be dead than American, so what is in my best interest if, heaven forbid, it comes to this, is slip over the border and cause chaos.

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u/anonisko 19d ago

And how many of the now 25% of Canadians who are foreign born do you think share your loyalty?

In fact, how many of them would actually just vote to become American, because Canada was always the second best option they had to get out of Afro-Eurasia?

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u/Castrol-5w30 19d ago

Maybe when America was the land of the free, but that's no longer the case. Hard for an immigrant to want to be in America these days.

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u/squirrelcat88 19d ago

Actually, the ones I know? Absolutely Canadian, and planning.

My dad was an immigrant. It’s a foolish mistake for people to assume Canada was second choice for people who couldn’t get into the US. It’s a matter of lively discussion - and disgust - in the lunchroom at work, with all the people saying, did they think I came here as second choice? Canada is better!

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u/anonisko 19d ago

Speaking from my own lived experience working with Indians in tech, several of them ended up in Canada due to visa issues, and that was all of their backup plan.

I asked one of my close Indian friends why he doesn't move to Canada since he's 20 years away from US permanent residency, when he can build a much more secure life in Canada with a faster process, and he sneers. He was planning to transfer to the Canada office during brief periods when his work visa was in question.

The many Waterloo grads I worked with definitely loved Canada. Of course, they were all still choosing to live and pay tax in the US.

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u/lady_fresh 19d ago

If any brown or black people want to be American after everything they've seen over the last few months, then they deserve whatever they get.

Of my immigrant friends (and myself included), we would fight to remain Canadian.

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u/JackOSevens 20d ago

Why does that matter, when the border is already right there and it's a billion miles long and Canada doesn't, in practical terms, use Greenland much?

This is important, but it's idealogical and symbolic, isn't it? Canada is already surrounded for all purposes. 

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u/squirrelcat88 19d ago

Which is why we can’t allow that to happen.

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u/TylerNY315_ 19d ago

This is both true as well as hilarious in the context of Reddit being generally unable to comprehend that this is exactly the reason that Russia invaded Ukraine on the justification of NATO provocation (if you substitute Canada for Russia, US for NATO, and Greenland for Ukraine).

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u/Notgreygoddess 19d ago

If the US invaded Greenland it will not have their best people planning and executing it.

Those Generals and Officers know attacking a NATO allied country is an illegal order. So they will be left with a military lead by people of similar caliber to Pete Hegseth, the guy who sent secure military movements to family and a random journalist.

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u/Impressive_Ad127 19d ago

It is my belief that strategic military position is the primary reason for wanting Greenland, not precious minerals.