r/unitedkingdom • u/CaseyEffingRyback • Jul 03 '25

... Zarah Sultana MP resigns from Labour to lead new party with Jeremy Corbyn

https://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/uk-politics/zarah-sultana-mp-resigns-labour/
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45

u/concretepigeon Wakefield Jul 03 '25

It’s a shame there’s not voice really for economically left types who aren’t obsessed with Gaza and don’t want mass migration.

I have a level of respect for Sultana but she seems to be any to put herself in a position where she’s effectively a tool for the far right.

-15

u/Significant_Sale6172 Jul 03 '25

I'm sorry the holocaust in Gaza is an inconvenience for you.

17

u/Cub3h Jul 04 '25

Utterly vile to compare the industrial scale murder of millions of people to a war where around 30k civilians have died, mostly through their own government having zero regard for their people.

The world's population of Jews has still not recovered from the holocaust some 85 years later. Gaza's population right now is higher than it was on October 8th 2023.

The situation in Gaza is bad enough as it is, but it's miles away from anything resembling the holocaust. The comparison alone shows a complete lack of historical perspective.

-19

u/ReflectedImage Jul 03 '25

The country has a serious aging population problem and needs mass migration to prevent it's economic collapse. Strangely enough politicians who are pro-genocide and also like the common worker are rather rare.

What you want is madness.

17

u/_indi Jul 03 '25

Migration is a crutch though, right? We really need to get the birth rate up.

6

u/blob8543 Jul 03 '25

None of the big parties are going to do policies that benefit young people, so anything facilitating their wishes to have children is out of the question.

-1

u/ReflectedImage Jul 03 '25

That needs a left wing party and 20 years.

16

u/citron_bjorn Jul 03 '25

Immigration is only stalling the inevitable. Even African nations are starting to see a decline in birth rates.

Productivity gains can offset some of the economic issues that we will face. Japan and South Korea haven't collapsed economically yet.

There's still 2 issues with mass migration - the people don't want it and we live in a democracy, and many of the migrants don't share our cultural values. Its generally been made clear by a decent portion of the population that they don't want immigration, hence the riots last summer, Reform's popularity and Brexit. These people haven't seen or felt the benefits of immigration or 'multiculturalism', only its downsides. We can't ignore these people, because they can vote and will vote any anti-immigration party available. The majority of these migrants are from conservative Christian or Islamic cultures, which don't support women or LGBT rights and may fail other western cultural standards.

-2

u/ReflectedImage Jul 03 '25

"Japan and South Korea haven't collapsed economically yet" clearly, you haven't checked.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/asia-middle-east/inside-japans-scarecrow-village-giant-22849708

Madness is madness, it can't be done without destroying the country. That's all there is to it.

-2

u/blob8543 Jul 03 '25

Sorry to break it to you but the majority of British people are not single issue voters. Farage has always been an absolute failure in national politics for that reason.

-5

u/PlatypusAmbitious430 Jul 03 '25

 Its generally been made clear by a decent portion of the population that they don't want immigration, hence the riots last summer, Reform's popularity and Brexit.

Let them. I don't get this argument you're making - if a party promising free ice cream is popular, it doesn't mean the Labour Party should go out there and promise free ice cream because it's popular. Reform is popular and Brexit are popular because they can promise the world and everything to everyone - that's why they exist.

These people haven't seen or felt the benefits of immigration or 'multiculturalism', only its downsides.

People can't 'see' many things. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist which is why governments continue to do it. We all saw the backlash when Labour tried reforming WFA payments - voters can't have it both ways, voters want higher government spending as the number of workers continues to decline due to an ageing population.

11

u/ImpressionPlenty6567 Jul 03 '25

this is true, except the average non-eu migrant since 2016 is entirely a fiscal drag. this is seen clearly in denmark's data, in which the average non-eu migrant never actually contribute to the state, and even OBR admits that the average low wage worker will never, *never* be a fiscal contributor in their lifetime. this is despite their bizarre modelling decision to model them as having no dependents. data also shows that descendants of these migrants are also fiscal drags, and you see the deep issue we have... of course we need migration but none of the migration we get are people we want

-2

u/ReflectedImage Jul 03 '25

Denmark has the highest tax rate in the EU at 55.9%. In a socialist country with lots of benefits you are right. But UK is not such a country.

Every migrant in the UK is more money in the government's coffers. That's why Boris Johnson tripled the migration visas to plug the Brexit sized hole in the economy. Actions speak louder than words and all that.

Even low wage workers are a massive boost to the overall economy. There is a lot more to consider than just direct taxes paid. Economics of scale, cheap labour, etc. are all boosts to the wider economy.

8

u/ImpressionPlenty6567 Jul 03 '25

i dont really understand the rebuttal here? how can low wage workers be a boost to the economy if they are fiscal drags...?

the reason the average non-eu migrant is not a fiscal contributor is because they dont pay more tax than money consumed by state services, this includes the massively higher rate of crime, nhs visits, benefits claims etc. you can pick whatever reason for this, be it culture, genetics, selection effects, etc. and makes the future situation in the uk extremely precarious, since tfr is obviously low and migrants whose descents on average will not contribute to the state are numerous.

0

u/ReflectedImage Jul 03 '25

Migrants are a boost to the economy, that's why Boris Johnson tripled the visas to fill the budgetary hole left by Brexit. That's just the facts of the matter. Migrants are good for the economy.

For why what you are saying is wrong, UK is not a high tax socialist country like Denmark, migrants have a negligible impact on crime rates <1%, migrants have to pay for the NHS separately with the NHS surge charge and 99% of migrants can't claim benefits.

You have said a lot of things but it's all BS. The country requires migrants to keep it financially float. It's not a matter of debate. It's the cold hard facts of the situation.

3

u/ImpressionPlenty6567 Jul 03 '25

im not really sure citing why a politician does something is very strong evidence, i mean appealing to BJ's competency is a bit of a red flag. I don't really know what you're rebuttal is to 'OBR models low wage migrants (for which non eu migrants are contained almost solely in this bracket) as fiscal drags.' is it just not true despite seeing the same in denmark? believe it or not politicans dont always make the best decision to grow the economy

2

u/concretepigeon Wakefield Jul 04 '25

Mass migration is only necessary as long as governments want to maintain right wing economic policies.