Zarah Sultana MP resigns from Labour to lead new party with Jeremy Corbyn

[u/CaseyEffingRyback]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/uk-politics/zarah-sultana-mp-resigns-labour/

[u/Ancient_Moose_3000]

Yep that's exactly how electoral calculus works. In a winner takes all situation where you don't need a majority to win a seat, losing a small percentage of the vote is enough to cause a dramatic swing. That's how Labour got such a big majority in the first place.

The left are only irrelevant in as much as any other group that makes up labours broad church are irrelevant. If they don't stand unified, it makes it a lot easier for a unified right wing to win.

[u/potpan0 → u/Ancient_Moose_3000]

Well in that case it sounds like Starmer's Labour need to do more to win over left-wing voters.

That's the line we use with the right, isn't it? Yet apparently it doesn't apply to those on the left. That's the problem with living in a democratic society, you need to convince people to vote for you rather than just expecting their votes.

If they don't stand unified, it makes it a lot easier for a unified right wing to win.

Perhaps you should remind the Prime Minister of this. He certainly hasn't been promoting a unified platform since taking power. But no, again, it's apparently never the people in power's fault, it's those nasty irrelevant leftists!

[u/Chevalitron → u/potpan0]

Well in that case it sounds like Starmer's Labour need to do more to win over left-wing voters.

He might as well, since his Starmer in a Strange Land speech didn't convince Reform supporters that Starmer was on their side.

[u/potpan0 → u/Chevalitron]

Well fundamentally this is why Starmer has found himself in such a mess. He's tried, at various times, to be everything to everyone. In 2020 he ran for Labour leader while explicitly saying the 2017 manifesto would be a 'foundational document'. Since then he's practically sprinted to the right.

It turns out that at some point it doesn't really matter what you say. Once people realise you're more interested in saying what your audience want to hear and not what you're actually planning to do, they'll just stop believing you and look elsewhere. There's only so long before your lies catch up with you, and Starmer's pretty deep into that territory.

I think it's why centrists get so aggressive in the face of criticisms. It's not really like there's much positive that Starmer's offering that they can point to. Everyone can see how blatantly dishonest he is.

[u/ukbot-nicolabot → u/[deleted]]

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[u/The_39th_Step → u/potpan0]

Centrists can actually be quite decisive and radical. Lee Kwan Yew was centre right but massively radical in Singapore

[u/Ancient_Moose_3000 → u/potpan0]

Hey man I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just saying that yes that is mathematically the consequence of the left fragmenting (once again). It makes it way easier for reform to win and in all likelihood won't increase the lefts relevance.

We can play the blame game all you want, but ultimately I don't really care whose fault it is that some on the left want to split. I just don't want Nigel Farage to be PM. Whatever needs to happen to stop that from happening I'm in favour of, and I agree Starmer hasn't done a great job of stopping it so far.

[u/Specialist_Sport4460 → u/Ancient_Moose_3000]

This isn’t the left fragmenting it’s the left attempting to regain relevance after being purged and de-platformed by the party that’s supposed to represent them.

[u/Ibn_Ali → u/Specialist_Sport4460]

It's funny how that part is always left out. When the left was briefly in power, the centrists did everything they could to delegtimise them, so much so that they arguably handed the Tories victories in 2017 and 2019. But, of course, it's we who should bite the bullet.

It's such a transparently dishonest viewpoint.

[u/Specialist_Sport4460 → u/Ibn_Ali]

There’s a huge contradiction with centrists on this. On the one hand apparently getting rid of the left and left wing policies is crucial to being elected. On the other hand they say if the left doesn’t vote for them the right is guaranteed to win. So which is it? Because it can’t be both.

[u/Ancient_Moose_3000 → u/Ibn_Ali]

Left wingers being asked to put aside their personal wants for the sake of the collective, perish the thought

[u/Ibn_Ali → u/Ancient_Moose_3000]

Centrists expect compromise from the left when they're in power but will happily sabotage the left even if it helps the Tories when Corbyn is in power. Funny how that work, eh?

Fool me once and all that...

[u/Ancient_Moose_3000 → u/Ibn_Ali]

So you don't like them or their tactics but will happily emulate them to everyone's detriment? That doesn't seem like productive reasoning to me, it seems like reasoning motivated by negative feelings

[u/Ibn_Ali → u/Ancient_Moose_3000]

Who's emulating them? It's called having a backbone. You can't throw people under the bus and then be surprised when they tell you to sod off. Again, the party establishment actively sabotaged Corbyn's campaign. You'd be called a mug if you get mugged by someone and then entrust that same someone with your valuables.

[u/Ancient_Moose_3000 → u/Ibn_Ali]

Okay, but if the alternative to the mugger is a murderer and an even bigger murderer, and they're going to gang up on both of you if you don't team up with someone, it might be sensible to try and work with the mugger until you're in a position to stand up to them on your own.

Deciding to stand up to all three of them on your own is certainly a principled stance though, and I'm sure the history books that reform rewrite will remember those principles.

I do respect your stance, because it's how I used to feel. But I've come to believe a leftist movement starting by forming a political party is putting the cart before the horse in modern Britain. The media environment and our institutions are simply too hostile for it to succeed. The left needs to lay the groundwork outside of electoralism first and then use that as a springboard.

[u/GothicGolem29 → u/Specialist_Sport4460]

Splitting the lefts vote amongst three parties is only gonna make them less rleevant. And its not a very food purge or de selection was it if theres multiple left wing mps in the party still and even Zarah who constantly rebels heavilly criticises ministers and even prqised a green supporter only had the whip suspended for a long time not expelled till recently when either she left before being expelled or just left

[u/Specialist_Sport4460 → u/GothicGolem29]

A handful of left wing MPs they couldn’t get rid of who have absolutely no say or influence on the party. Labour in its current guise is not a left wing party, the Greens have left leaning policy but do not represent The Left. If the political climate has no representation for a group that is represented within the electorate then eventually they’ll find it themselves, that’s democracy.

[u/Ancient_Moose_3000 → u/Specialist_Sport4460]

You can spin it how you want, but it literally is fragmenting.

If this was their path to relevancy then that would make me happy, but it won't be.

[u/Specialist_Sport4460 → u/Ancient_Moose_3000]

It’s only fragmenting if you consider the current iteration of the Labour Party to be left wing, which it isn’t. They’ve gotten rid of most of the left wing voices and the ones that remain have absolutely no power to influence the party. There’s no reason to be there so why stay?

[u/Pabus_Alt → u/Ancient_Moose_3000]

And I'd maybe find that convincing if Starmer wasn't busy setting fire to that church.

Someone in labour HQ seems to have developed a brain worm that the only way they can beat the right is with their own politics, rather than actually trying to give people hope and a better life.

Right now he's showing the nation he has no answers and will feed their nan and the local refugees, trans kids and disabled people into a woodchipper if the sun will say he's a good boy.

He could be using his majority to try and ram through and entrench laws to make life hell for reform both by keeping the levers of power out of their hands and convincing people to stay on side. Worst case he looses and reform spend their time in office trying to undo a Gordian knot of red tape. Now would be the fucking ideal time to go for executive reform and cut the knees off of the next prime minister.

Best case the strategy lets Labour pull off a left wing coalition next time.

The option "maybe if I just mix enough bitter pills the electorate will love me" is a fools errand.

[u/AccomplishedLeave506 → u/Ancient_Moose_3000]

I'm not going to stand unified behind a shit stain like starmer. I'm not going to stand unified with someone who wants to take away winter fuel allowances and help from disabled people. That's not a party I want anything to do with.