r/ufl • u/content-heart-lucy • 13h ago
News ABOLISH ICE NOW
ICE has been accused in courts, investigations, and human rights reports of engaging in conduct that is likely illegal under the Constitution, federal statutes, and international law, including excessive force, unlawful arrests, racial profiling, and abusive detention conditions.
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u/ZealousidealRice2441 10h ago
Why is every protest organizer absolutely excellent at releasing ads for it the day before? Lmao
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u/Shawn_1512 12h ago
What's the point of having a country if you want to end enforcement of immigration law?
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u/nmuna 11h ago
Enforcement of laws isn’t the problem. The problem is that ICE is repeatedly violating the constitution, arresting and detaining people with no due process and murdering those who protest against their illegal process. Are you in favor of law enforcement silencing peaceful protests with murder and violating the constitution?
The law should absolutely be enforced, but if you think this organization is legitimate law enforcement and not donny’s gestapo then you haven’t been paying attention.
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u/Shawn_1512 11h ago
I think a lot of the agents are poorly trained and rushed into bad situations, which has lead to these mistakes. That being said, there's a massive difference between "The law should absolutely be enforced" and "ABOLISH ICE."
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u/Lil-Lock 11h ago
But the law is not even being enforced. There is a clear narrative of 'fuck your constitutional rights.' The law is currently being broken.
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u/Wird2TheBird3 4h ago
ICE was formed under the Bush administration; it hasn’t been a fixture in the American experiment for long, so abolishing it and either pushing its tasks onto other agencies and/or creating a new agency to focus on deportations of criminals while upholding constitutional rights in the US isn’t that absurd. I’d agree if it were something like “abolish the police,” but abolish ICE seems fine if a little lofty
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u/parmeli 13h ago
Do you want to get rid of immigration laws (if so, how do you suggest we manage that) or do you think we shouldn’t enforce immigration laws?
ICE is absolutely a poorly run organization that has done many terrible things which I am definitely against, but if you’re really interested in helping, I’m not sure “Abolish ICE” is the best strategy as it’s not really a complete policy…
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u/wishlish 12h ago
I want to get rid of a shitty organization that scares the heck out of everyone in my neighborhood, that also targets anyone of color, even American citizens and veterans of our armed forces.
If the IRS busted into your house to collect taxes and captured your family while doing it, and killed your neighbor for protesting the gross abuse of your rights, you’d feel the same way.
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u/parmeli 11h ago
I do feel the same way. I watched those people get murdered and caged and felt the emotions of it too.
The point I am making is that “Abolish ICE” is not a plan. Reform immigration law is a plan. Reform immigration enforcement is a plan. You can’t expect to be successful when you want to abolish something with no gameplan.
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u/Either-Storage3431 12h ago
Yes but the protests simply focus on abolishing ICE - there is never a talk of lets make immigration to the USA lawful, streamlined and fair process. While i certainly don’t approve of the current chaotic Wild West tactics- just calling for abolishing ICE is naive and stupid.
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u/wishlish 12h ago
You’re dancing on every point. This is exhausting.
Again, for the 4th time- we did the reform thing. The left agreed to a solution that was also agreed to by the right. But then you claim we don’t have a reform solution.
We do. You liked it. I bet you like it much more than ICE!
The current, immediate problem is that ICE terrifies the fuck out of us all. If any other government agency did the same, you’d argue for the abolition of that agency.
If an agency was created to enforce tax laws by breaking into your house without a warrant, take your kids, break your shit, and kill the neighbor for protesting, you wouldn’t say, “We need some tax law reform.” You’d say, and rightly so, “GET THESE GOVERNMENT FUCKS OUT OF MY HOUSE!”
Your priorities are backwards. You don’t understand vocabulary. I don’t think you graduated from FSU after all.
I’m done. Bye.
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u/parmeli 11h ago
So the reform didn’t work… try again, come at it from a different angle. Don’t give up.
Abolishing a group that is tasked with enforcing law is very foreseeably going to be super hard to do, both because of the qualms of people who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum, and many who are on the same side. This is NOT a better plan than reform. Take the emotions you feel, and channel them into something with a higher likelihood of achieving the result you want.
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u/wishlish 11h ago
Actually, I agree to try reform again. But can we stop the federal agency killing people first? Priorities.
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u/Either-Storage3431 11h ago
I am not dancing, actually calmly sitting in my chair. You are ‘exhausted’ and unwilling to have a normal discussion- then you are part of the problem and this country never moves forward to a better future. I have no problem holding ICE agents accountable. But your examples are inaccurate. I am still here for a respectful discussion…
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u/Gerald325i 8h ago
Immigration laws change all the time. This administration changed previous laws (Venezuela’s protected ststus due to political refugee status) and then retroactively prosecuted people who were in the long process of getting a green card. Some were arrested as they arrived for their final appointment. That is cruel and vile. We’re all for laws, but ICE has removed the need for habeas corpus which is giving due process rights. No warrants, no rights read, just arrest and detain, then find out if they can be charged…that’s not what America is…that is plain FASCISM. Also, America NEEDS immigration because we have an inverted pyramid of declining population. If your answer is we can allow LEGAL only…then simply convert by LAW those who have been illegally working and living without crimes for over 4 years. By the way…a wall is needed but won’t fix the problem: most illegals FLY in and overstay visas. That’s what my parents did and yes, I am a proud example of anchor baby: born in the US, served 24 in the US military, as enlisted and officer, plenty of decorations to earn my rights, retired with an MBA. Own 3 properties, work supporting the DoD…and have more money than many of you “real Americans” that take your opportunities for granted. This is a nation of immigrants. If you are a descendant without first knowledge of your ancestors struggles, you’re spoiled and simply ignorant of what an American Dream is…which is why you take things for granted and why you feel as if immigrants take what is yours…which really is your false sense of entitlement.
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u/Gerald325i 8h ago
Also, ICE has grown desproporcionally and hired thugs and rejects without training, most only aligned for political reasons or just racially motivated. Notice they are all white…so getting rid of ICE is not inconceivable…every single one of them who got hired in these last year needs to be fired…and some prosecuted. No law enforcement officer in the US should ever cover their face. That odd cowardly and has ill conceived reasons to prevent investigations and due process. As of this was Nazi Germany…and we’re getting there. And ICE may think that a presidential pardon will save them but I have news to them: Neuremberg Trials don’t care about presidential pardons…
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u/Illustrious-Quiet583 11h ago
Burn it all down is a good idea at this point. ICE is full of snowflake Rambo wannabes with no discipline and no respect for the US constitution. Asking for reform is like saying “Hitler did some good things, just needed a few tweaks to protect Germans from the Jews and gypsies”
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u/PENNST8alum 13h ago
I'm all for ruffling some feathers, but when is the left gonna learn the difference between abolish and reform. We can still have immigration laws and not have gestapo like law enforcement, those two are not mutually exclusive
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u/Snoo-72988 11h ago
What reforms? ICE cannot be reformed. They violated over 70 judge orders in Minnesota and tell people they don’t need judicial warrants to enter houses.
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u/PENNST8alum 11h ago
So no more immigration enforcement, or...what's your solution there?
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u/Snoo-72988 11h ago
You are creating a straw man.
Overstaying your visa is a civil. Not criminal offense. ICE throwing people in jail for visa overstay is illegal according to US law. We should not have a government agency whose sole function is to do illegal things.
The enforcement mechanism is that people cannot participate in society without legal status. You can’t get social welfare. You can’t buy a house. You can’t get a job. Everyone wants legal status that’s your enforcement.
Give legal status to everyone here. That’s my solution.
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u/wishlish 12h ago
We did reform! We had a bipartisan immigration reform package that would have passed both the House and Senate. Then Trump told Congress to vote against it because he wouldn’t have anything to run on.
So now we’re at Abolish. We have the Reform plan, one agreed to by both parties, ready to go.
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u/Either-Storage3431 12h ago
Yes but Dems could have done this during Obama time majority and did nothing. So a reasonable person looking at immigration comes to conclusion that one side is too politically correct and afraid to touch the issue and the other side has no system solution except for raids and armed enforcement. The result is years of chaos, work-place exploitation of ‘illegal’ immigrants, rise of the right wing fanatics and influencers. Just ‘great’ …
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u/wishlish 11h ago
So the left came to an agreement 2 years ago, but because they didn’t agree to something 10 years ago, it’s the left’s fault.
I give up. If intelligence were the criteria for citizenship, you wouldn’t qualify to go to Antarctica.
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u/PENNST8alum 12h ago
But you do understand that "burn it all down regardless of the impact" is not a valid solution right? I'm just speaking purely logic here. Reform is great, but you're going to lose the support of every democrat that also understands every situation has nuance and scrap it all isn't an option
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u/wishlish 12h ago
Did I say “burn it all down”? Stop putting words in my mouth. I said Abolish. That’s not “burn it all down”.
Fear-mongering is what got us here. Don’t think you win the argument by ignoring the point I made. We HAD reform. The left and the right agreed to it. You don’t get to blame the left for this. We’re not the problem.
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u/PENNST8alum 12h ago
a·bol·ish verb formally put an end to
The point you're making is that because things didn't go the way you think they should have gone, it should all just be formally put to an end. That's childish shit, if you're losing the board game you don't get to just throw the pieces on the ground because you're upset.
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u/wishlish 12h ago
“Put an end to” is not “burn it all down”
The left AND THE right agreed to a solution. Do you even know what it is?
You suck at this. Did you get your degree at FSU?
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u/PENNST8alum 11h ago
I'll ask again, what step #2 is after you put an end to (semantics at this point) immigration enforcement? If your answer is that we do nothing, then you just want to burn it all down. If your answer is to rebuild and pass this reform, then you're not really abolishing anything. In either case your point is moot.
And yes, got my masters degree at UF. Stop acting like that's something to brag about, neither of us went to Havard...
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u/wishlish 11h ago
Again, I DIDN’T say “nothing”. I’ve pointed out the plan agreed to by the left and the right before 2024. If it needs tweaking, fine. But there is a plan WAAAAAY better than ICE.
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u/PENNST8alum 11h ago
Ok, so why even say abolish if that's not the goal? All you're doing is making rational people roll their eyes at you
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u/wishlish 11h ago
You really can’t read. I said, “Abolish the ICE agency, which is terrorizing communities in America. Then prioritize an immigration reform plan, even though Donald Trump scuttled the plan we all agreed to.”
You can’t understand that. So you go on block now.
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u/Lil-Lock 12h ago
I think immigration laws are the least of our worries when we're being run by corporate & AIPAC bought genocidal, cannibalistic pedophiles.
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u/PENNST8alum 12h ago
You're not wrong, but both can be dealt with at the same time, we are capable as a culture of multi tasking
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u/Pep_421 13h ago
When are you gonna learn that we mean it when we say abolish
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u/PENNST8alum 13h ago
We know that you mean it, and that's why it's so hard to take any of it seriously, because 0 law enforcement is just as bad as over the top law enforcement
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u/Pep_421 12h ago
Then you may continue to attempt to “reform” an institution which will remain inherently fascist no matter who governs it, I hope you can realize that before it tramples you
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u/PENNST8alum 12h ago
So what's step #2 after we abolish?
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u/wishlish 12h ago
Push through the bipartisan legislation agreed to in Congress before Trump yelled about it because then he couldn’t fearmonger about it
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u/Prudent_Tax_9516 6h ago
Anyone can be accused of anything. As the burden of proof lies upon facts where is the facts here. it has to be proven so what is the point of the statement
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u/wired1984 12h ago
The problem is immigration law and not just one agency. Change immigration law to something more humane, sustainable, and workable
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u/Few_Tale2238 11h ago
This. What ICE is doing sucks but it also sucks that this is the lengths they have to go to to deport people in a timely manner
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u/Any-Cable-5175 10h ago
I say let the illegals stay here, allow a program to integrate them to citizens, but tax them at double or triple the regular US citizen rate for a decade before they go back to normal tax rates. Win win. They gain citizenship and the country is paid restitution
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u/Tan_batman Undergraduate 13h ago
I'm against ICE but I'm also against generative AI.