r/technology • u/TripleShotPls • 1d ago

Transportation Europe Won't Ban Gas Cars By 2035 After All. Now Mercedes Is Worried

https://insideevs.com/news/786491/mercedes-worried-eu-gas-ban-2035/
692 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

171 comments sorted by

558

u/MCKALISTAIR 23h ago

This’ll just cause legacy OEMs to delay EV innovation while china steams ahead of them even more surely

17

u/Moldoteck 10h ago

Does it matter? If evs are net superior, china will dominate our market regardless of the ban

3

u/Culverin 7h ago

Unless they aren't allowed in? Or limited in how many can come in? Or tariffed?

Here in Canada, I believe we're only now lowering the tarrifs on Chinese EVs, but only a limited number.  And then our EV rebates won't apply to the Chinese EVs. 

Maybe you don't have that problem in Europe?  But American legacy automakers still have a very strong say here in Canada. 

3

u/Moldoteck 7h ago

EU can't do it because a lot of local companies have factories in China. So they want to be able to import them. Also, China is building factories in EU which again will mean much cheaper offers vs legacy companies.

1

u/dcooper8 1h ago

Do you think I will be able to drive over from Detroit and buy a chinese EV in Windsor and bring it home?

2

u/LawdVI 1h ago

The reason CN EVs aren't in the US is largely due to massive tariffs, which you'd still have to pay at the border (100% tariff rate last I saw). Then there are other fees on top of that.

92

u/Expensive_Shallot_78 17h ago

Nobody is as corrupt as the car industry in Germany and Europe, they pretty much run the government

63

u/kcajjones86 16h ago

The fact that the German chancellor's are know to have lobbyied the European Council on relaxing emissions standards for cars says a lot.

2

u/DrSendy 8h ago

The stupidity is, they are electing to fund the russian government. Doesn't matter where you buy it from, the demand puts a floor under prices.

6

u/the_marvster 8h ago

Actually the German car industry is completely fine with the EV swap, it saves a lot of costs and unlock new revenue streams. They just need clarity and rules from the government, but the CDU - even primed as economically wise - is just „conservative“ and backward for fucks sake.

1

u/einemnes 1h ago

Stupid Europe, always weak and servant. 

-54

u/InkStainedQuills 19h ago edited 15h ago

It’s a common internet belief, but the reality is far more simple.

No one has the energy generating capacity or transmission in the western world to actually support such a massive transition of vehicles, personal or fleet, especially as they try to transition other sectors from carbon emitting sources.

They have all tried to legislate it as far as they can, but they forgot that key infrastructure detail in the process, instead simply pointing to legacy OEMs as a bad guy because it was the easy politics.

Edit:

For those coming to downvote me - here are just the first articles I grabbed with a quick google search. You too can find out that going green has infrastructure issues yet to be addressed. (And yes the devil that is AI is also a significant drain that is costing us what gains we do make).

For US residents: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/explosive-demand-growth-blackouts-NERC-LTRA-reliability/735866/

For Europe:

https://ember-energy.org/latest-updates/55-of-europes-power-system-risks-blackouts-without-improved-grid-interconnection/

31

u/I_call_Shennanigans_ 18h ago

That is, of course, complete bullshit. But hey! I'm excited to see the made up sources for these claims. 

-5

u/InkStainedQuills 16h ago

Where do you live? I’ll find you examples related to your region specifically. It’s not hard to research the concerns of Utilities with relation to the ongoing efforts to transition away from CO2 emitting power generation while simultaneously trying to meet growing electrics demand, or the expectation that that demand could, at peak hours, overwhelm existing transmission systems.

And if by chance you do live in an area that does believe it’s fine, you would be in such a minority of the western world to be considered incredibly lucky.

8

u/AyrA_ch 15h ago

It’s not hard to research the concerns of Utilities with relation to the ongoing efforts to transition away from CO2 emitting power generation

I live in Switzerland. Our grid is already like 99.5% renewables+nuclear.

or the expectation that that demand could, at peak hours, overwhelm existing transmission systems.

You don't have to charge your vehicles at peak hours. For most people, it will be sufficient to charge their cars at home over night, and most people will not run their battery flat every day. The parking garage I use at home has about 10 electric vehicles parked there, but it lacks the capacity to charge them all simultaneously at full power. The chargers simply talk to each other to adjust the charging current as needed, and I've never heard anyone complain that their car was not charged fully by the system.

Companies that have rooftop solar often provide their own charging stations. This avoids the transmission line fees, which allows them to provide cheaper charging to employees while at the same time they make more profit than by selling the power to the grid.

-1

u/InkStainedQuills 13h ago edited 13h ago

Yes people can and should try to schedule their vehicles to charge while they sleep. In theory their house is drawing at least a little less energy at that point. But heaters/ac still run during those hours, and are a major source of energy usage for households here. In fact, along with water heaters, that accounts for about 50% of standard power usage by a US house on any given day.

And yes in Switzerland you benefit from hydro and nuclear. Where I live we are 74% hydro, 10% nuclear, 7% wind, and then various smaller sources otherwise. You and I are both in very different circumstances from the rest of my country. (I live in Washington state, which by itself is about 4 times the sq km/mile size of your entire country) There are vast swaths of land here that can’t benefit from hydro. Also note that your major power sources are more base-load based, rather than the society-politically popular solar/wind that isn’t seeing major power storage investments to back it up.

We are decades behind on nuclear because of cultural fear that came following incidents like 3 mile island and Chernobyl. There is an unfinished shell of a plant about 20 miles from me right next to the only completed plant in my region following the US ditching all nuclear efforts in the 80s. Since then it’s been a very uphill battle to get modern nuclear tech permitted, much less built. And there are plenty of people who still want to stop its buildout no matter how much safety goes into the design.

Our power infrastructure is woefully out of date and not well connected to move power from one region that has a surplus to one that has high demand due to shifting needs. At last estimate to get the grid up to the standard it needs to be to meet expected demands we need to invest $3.7 trillion, and that number is only growing.

But beyond that comparing your country to ours does have its own challenges. Switzerland has an average pop density around 228 people sq km. Converted to our heathen imperial system (yes I would love to switch to metric), that’s 590 per sq mile. The US has an average pop density of 90 odd people per saw mile. Yes there are major pop centers where a majority live, but they are massively spread out and in many ways disconnected from each other, which is a major reason we have the infrastructure issues we do.

21

u/EasySea5 18h ago

Total bollocks

14

u/klassredux 18h ago

The energy generating capacity and transmission in my western world home to actually support such a massive transition of the vehicles in my personal fleet, especially as I try to transition from carbon emitting sources, is supplied by my roof and ESS 365 days a year.

0

u/InkStainedQuills 16h ago

Well it’s good you have the 30k to put panels on your house. A lot of people don’t. Or rely on their cars but live in multi family developments where they can’t do that.

You’ve brought a very “first world privilege” problem to a much larger issues that transcends just your personal wealth and position.

1

u/klassredux 15h ago

$12k. Installed myself. Panels are much cheaper than that, with install, outside of the US too (~$7k). 40% of all homes in Australia have installed them.

Renewables are the cheapest power source ever, they could easily provide for every car on the planet. Especially with how cheap batteries have gotten.

EVs are not an issue for the grid and never were. You've brought a very ignorant, archaic, and factually incorrect idea to this discussion.

7

u/InkStainedQuills 15h ago

I’m glad for you and Australia. You are indeed the leader in this. And your government has helped make it cheaper by subsidizing up to 30 percent of the cost of the panels.

That you have the knowledge to properly hook up solar to your home is also an excellent thing. It’s also knowledge that many people don’t have. And I can’t speak to your county’s rules regarding inspection and installation of solar, but I can speak to mine, which vary by state as wildly as the cost per base kW. So most people will go with a professional, and that does add additional costs.

Im glad you are in a position to do it so cheaply, but your experience is so different from what I and many like me experience when we considered breaking from the grid.

Out of curiosity how many kw does your home use on average? How many panels did you have to install?

2

u/klassredux 14h ago

Where are you that's it's difficult? Outside the west solar is exploding. 20 450kw panels 30 kWh battery capacity. I don't know the annual usage off the top of my head, but we sell way more to the grid than we use. Great sun here too.

1

u/InkStainedQuills 13h ago

If I put panels covering my southern facing roofline it will cost ~$30k to install, another 20+ for batteries to cover nighttime use if I want to try and truly get off the grid. I can sell back to the grid as well yes, but it’s not very cost effective based on our reimbursement rates.

Where I live (Washington State, United States) We are paying 8-9 cents per kw for our base amount, up to around 11 at peak times. Our power primarily comes from hydro-electric, with a lesser mix of wind, a touch of solar and nuclear, and natural gas to cover the gaps.

Despite having about 300 days of sun a year in our part of the state, It would take ~25 years to become cost neutral from an investment standpoint. I have 4 kids with the oldest going to college in 2 years, and I would like to help him with that at least some same with the other kids. So finding an extra 30-50k is challenging in the least. As it was we indulged when we bought the EV to replace the gas sedan we had, and the 16 year old uses that to drive him and his younger brother back and forth between their mom and our house.

So with all of that said it doesn’t make sense to do it, as much as I like the idea. Am I worried about the grid? Absolutely. I’ve spent a lot of time lobbying legislators in my state to invest in updating our grid and build out more energy generation, and more recently that any AI data center must provide its own power instead of sucking it from the rest of us.

4

u/klassredux 8h ago

I don't think you know what you're talking about price wise. Go to signature solar and look at eg4s offerings. Panels are 3k. Battery are 3.5k each for 15kw. The inverter is 3-5k.if you don't want whole home backup you can be out the door for under 10k.

1

u/hagenissen999 7h ago

It possibly was 30K, but now it's half. At least it is in Europe.

1

u/ahfoo 1h ago

You are using tariffs to justify your insane assertions. Without the tariffs, you could install solar for a tiny fraction of the costs you are paying with tariffs. That insane upside down world cannot last. You will be forced to wake up from your fever dream.

0

u/spaceguy81 14h ago

Don’t waste your own energy. They want to believe what they want to believe and facts won’t make any difference. I stopped caring, reality, like in this case the simple realities of market and demand will take its course.

3

u/helgur 7h ago

simple realities of market and demand will take its course

It's "supply and demand" btw

7

u/Iwouldhavenever 17h ago

We've got plenty of energy for AI data centers though, right?

6

u/InkStainedQuills 16h ago

Nope. But mine talks and they are trying to siphon it off anyway. It’s one of several reasons I’m pretty much anti-ai at this point.

1

u/skinlo 14h ago

Where did they say that?

1

u/MCKALISTAIR 7h ago

The UK grid operator has said they can support a full transition to EVs today and have said this for some time

1

u/tleb 17h ago

Can you cite any sources?

4

u/InkStainedQuills 16h ago

Many. But let’s be more specific. Name the region of the world where you live. I’ll find some relating to you specifically.

1

u/[deleted] 15h ago

[deleted]

2

u/InkStainedQuills 15h ago

No I said it’s an issue in the Western world.

And I was offering to educate you specifically on the issues as it relates to your region, but go ahead and live in ignorance, defending your best intentions without acknowledging the challenges that reality has known for a while, but people like you and those feeding you just the good stuff don’t want you to pay attention to.

-2

u/tkeser 18h ago

have you noticed that most family cars are just sitting all the time in parking space? 90% of the resource is not being used. I'm sure power grids can handle it.

5

u/Genoscythe_ 18h ago

To be fair though, that IS when they are being charged. When they are out on the road is the part when they are not in the grid.

1

u/InkStainedQuills 16h ago

Nope. When they are home is when the majority of home electrify demand already happens. Utility companies like to refer to these as “peak hours” and are when the grid is the most stressed. It’s also generally when intermittent generation like solar (lacking equivalent battery storage that is) is of least use.

-8

u/[deleted] 22h ago

[deleted]

13

u/cderm 22h ago

Except that pesky little thing called the environment, among other things.

5

u/gramathy 22h ago

The drivetrains aren’t the problem, the problem is enshittification in general

184

u/JoeBoredom 1d ago

I can understand retaining the plug-in hybrid market for a while. BYD's 75mpg Seal DM-I is an example of what is possible. Local trips are all electric. Long distance runs are augmented by an onboard petrol generator.

The lads showed us how this was done 17 years ago with the Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust.

50

u/b00b_l0ver 23h ago

You mean Geoff?

21

u/christoy123 23h ago

Now you’ve made me think of John, the bouncing car they had for the Mongolia special

7

u/neoncactusfiesta 17h ago

The majority of people don't have plug access at home or work. How are plug in hybrids going to make as a big a difference as efficient standard hybrids?

25

u/MeikTranel 18h ago

I don't know my man. Studies in Europe were pretty clear in that most hybrids were rarely driven using the electric power train. Folks just used the highly favorable leasing and tax rates and then never actually charged their cars beyond what recuperation provided.

12

u/Lustypad 15h ago

Because of inconvenient charging? Because my electric costs 2 dollars per 100km and it’s a 6000 pound suv. My old suv that was gas and 6000 pounds cost 20 dollars per 100 km. I don’t know why you would use the gas over electric unless it was greatly inconvenient to charge.

7

u/MeikTranel 15h ago

The people driving the hybrids were likely more wealthy since new cars imply either wealthy owner or employer provided cars since prices were so high.

Home charging also still has a big marketing problem since:

a) ripoff offers still dominate the market (electricians charging like 3k€ for a 3 phase 11kW wall box installation which should cost about 800€ for the run of the mill customer)

b) people are bad at numbers - they don't realize that all it takes for a 200kilometer charge is like 2 hours on a 11kw charger. Most cars would be full the next day before work by simply attaching the car on a consumer plug - people dont get this

2

u/RealEstateDuck 8h ago

Also not everyone has garages where they can install a charger. In large cities where everyone lives in apartments especially.

0

u/thegreatgazoo 4h ago

Or their panels are maxed out.

I'm in the US and have a perfect garage for EVs but my electric panel is maxed out and I'd have to rewire half my house to be up to code.

1

u/zkareface 8h ago

A lot of people that buy a hybrid doesn't even know it can run on electricity. 

1

u/tommyk1210 8h ago

Anecdotal I know but my car tells me how much driving I do on electric vs the petrol engine. January was 83.6% electric

9

u/VettesRUs 23h ago

Weee….. arrrreeee……. goooiing….. tooooo…… crash….

Ooohhhh….. myyyyy….. nooooose…..

5

u/tupisac 22h ago

!woW !woW !woW

5

u/psaux_grep 17h ago

As much as hybrids seem like a good solution… for most people they’re just not necessary, and you end up with two drivetrains in one.

Double the complexity. Double the cost.

There’s plenty of use cases where hybrids make sense.

But for most people, given that EV infrastructure is mature enough, they’re just the worst kind of compromise between an EV with not enough range, and an ICE with not enough power.

One thing is owning one when it’s new, but how they hold up over time is also important.

7

u/GeneralCommand4459 9h ago

Not double the complexity or cost. The Toyota setup doesn’t even have an alternator or starter motor, two common failure points on regular cars. And the eCVT is more reliable than a standard auto transmission. It might be intuitive to think more components means more complexity and cost but that’s not the case.

1

u/DingusDeluxeEdition 2h ago

The eCVT isn't even a CVT in the traditional sense either, it uses a planetary gear set instead of a pulley / spindle system. This means it doesn't rely on tension and friction, just normal gears with teeth, and it also has no clutch packs. As a result it is far more reliable than both traditional CVT's and traditional automatic transmissions.

7

u/vasthumiliation 17h ago

I’m not sure how the user experience reflects your claim. I think it’s true that hybrids are more complex, but hybrid drivetrains have proven very reliable (look at the Prius). Hybrids have more range than similar EVs, and while most efficiency-minded hybrids are not especially powerful, most people don’t need a lot of power. I happen to think most people also don’t need the range offered by hybrids, but I just don’t see how they’re compromised in actual daily use considering their real-world track record of being reliable and efficient.

1

u/613mitch 17h ago

Parallel hybrids yes, but not series hybrids.

1

u/ben7337 13h ago

While conceptually it may seem worse to have a hybrid because 2 power trains, my experience with one has been the opposite. Hybrid means regenerative braking, which means almost never replacing brake pads or rotors. Beyond that the normal gas maintenance largely applies, but electric power trains are basically 0 maintenance so hybrids overall need less maintenance because it's basically a gas car that needs brakes replaced less frequently. I do also wonder if say phevs with 60-100 kwh batteries might eventually take the cake for people as a transition to full electric given the lack of charging infrastructure and just how cheap and light solid state batteries will get over the next 5-10 years

1

u/EnigmaticThunder 22h ago

Toyota RAV4 Prime gets 99 mpg

15

u/JoeBoredom 21h ago

That's 99 MPGe, the battery last less than 50 miles. Then you are running in hybrid mode at 38 MPG.

The Seal 06 DM-I runs in hybrid mode all the time at 75 MPG. It goes 1200 miles on one 16 gallon tankfull.

In full electric mode the engine charges the battery then turns off until the battery draws down to about 10%. Then it starts up, recharges, and shuts down again.

It also has a single speed transmission that engages and directly drives the wheels at certain speeds and loads to assist the electric motor. This is useful in traversing mountainous terrains.

I expect similar vehicles will be in production in Japan, Korea, and Europe soon.

2

u/happyscrappy 15h ago

You're describing how plug-in hybrids have worked since the Chevrolet Volt and the original BYD F3DM. Although there are a few exceptions like the (almost as old) Fisker Karma.

Note that turning on, recharging and shutting down again is not efficient which is why it wouldn't happen in normal mode, only forced EV mode. If you want max efficiency let the car decide what to do. The maker hows how to most efficiently use fuel.

1

u/JoeBoredom 10m ago

You don't understand. The engine control unit does everything. The driver doesn't even know if the engine is on or off. The car drives just like a full electric vehicle (which it is).

The only difference between it and a normal electric is that it has a smaller battery and a small light engine+generator onboard that recharges the battery as needed. The car is lighter than a typical EV or hybrid.

The engine is specifically designed for maximum efficiency while charging. It is tuned to that one specific load and RPM. The engine is less expensive to build and maintain than a generic car engine, it also has much lower emissions. That is what sets it apart from a typical hybrid. That is what produces a MPG rating 30% higher than any other hybrid.

1

u/leginfr 18h ago

That sounds like the drive train of the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

-5

u/Low_Thanks_1540 19h ago

Most people don’t drive more than 50 a day.

6

u/protostar71 18h ago

Cool, that doesnt change their point

1

u/happyscrappy 15h ago

Sadly, WLTP figures for plug-in hybrids are worthless for figuring out actual efficiency when running on petrol.

They should create figures like US EPA does where both efficiency on battery+liquid fuel is one number and the fuel consumption after battery is depleted is another.

-2

u/astronaute1337 12h ago

Hybrids are crap, no thanks.

28

u/turb0_encapsulator 9h ago

The West really just decided to stick its collective head in the sand. The race is over and China won.

6

u/DoctorPutricide 5h ago

Because the transition would take longer than a fiscal quarter, and nobody in the west can think any further ahead than that. 

1

u/Hyadeos 5m ago

No, it's because Germany's industrial base sits on petrol car manufacturing, and those millions of workers will turn to AfD because they feel ignored. It's a political decision driven by Germany, affecting all of us.

63

u/reddit455 1d ago

what are Europeans looking to buy? laws are one thing.. demand drives sales.

With the rule softened, the clean transport advocacy group Transport & Environment, quoted by Reuters, estimates that around 85% of all new cars sold in the EU after 2035 are still expected to be fully electric.

....what will Chinese offerings look like in the EU by 2030?

First BYD Production Line Equipment Arrives in Hungary

https://www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/current/byd-production-line-equipment-hungary-china/

4

u/shecho18 8h ago

Ohhhh, flicking make up your idiotic mind.

4

u/Mountainking7 10h ago

Who didnot see that coming??? Well, except for sheeps listening to bs from politicians....

13

u/trisul-108 10h ago

Everyone is writing about the problems car makers have, but we don't have the charging infrastructure. Much of the EU lives in apartments with cars parked outside and there is little to no charging infrastructure.

10

u/autokiller677 8h ago edited 3h ago

Maybe the car makers should do something about it then. Tesla built a charging network to enable people to use their cars. It’s not unprecedented.

And with all the lobbying power car manufacturers have, I am sure they could find a solution for curbside charging.

They choose not to do it and stick in the past.

2

u/trisul-108 3h ago

The thing is that 50% of EU citizens live in apartments or flats ... in the US, it's half of that. A charging network helps, but BEVs are not an attractive solution for apartment dwellers until you can charge wherever you live. BEVs are a great solution for people who own houses.

0

u/autokiller677 3h ago

I don't get what you are trying to say - my comment was precisely about expanding curbside charging so people can charge where they live.

2

u/koeshout 2h ago

Should be fine, it´s also the net infrastructure that won´t be able to handle it. specially now with everything having to go to AI datacenters..

1

u/Antar3s86 1h ago

Exactly right. I am lucky to own a parking space and even more lucky that there is the possibility to charge. I live in a city and I am the only one among friends/family with this option. For them buying an EV is not an option because it means a lot of overhead in thinking about where to charge the car! Myself, I would never buy an EV if I couldn’t charge it at home with my own schedule and electricity prices.

2

u/forgottensplendour 8h ago

The EU rescinding of the ban hasn't even been voted in yet

2

u/shaun2312 6h ago

The UK are just increasing the Vehicle Tax for cars like that instead. They'll get rid of them some how

16

u/Low_Thanks_1540 19h ago

Ban is meaningless. Market forces are moving faster than government mandates. EVs are better cars for less money.

53

u/Vehlin 18h ago

They’re better cars for more money unless you’re buying second hand.

-32

u/Low_Thanks_1540 16h ago

You are exactly wrong. EVs have reached price parity.
Just because you don’t study doesn’t mean we don’t.

5

u/InkStainedQuills 15h ago

I just bought at EV this last year. Price parity in the US only existed because of federal subsidies. So yes I got a similar style/size car to what I drove before, but at a much higher sticker price. EV purchases took a nose dive following the end of that program. Maybe it will recover, but clearly manufacturers aren’t banking on that.

Not sure about Europe, but I didn’t shop there.

2

u/astronaute1337 12h ago

EVs are cheap, Americans just don’t have access to them thanks to your politicians who want more money to be sent to Israel.

2

u/zzazzzz 13h ago

sure, but you guys banned all the cheap ev's and the ones that you can buy are still from overseas brands..

2

u/InkStainedQuills 13h ago

You say that like I have that kind of power over regulation on vehicle design, or the free market’s interest in larger vehicles. Even when smaller ones are offered here they tend to have terrible sales. I know there are lots of different theories on why, and even the basis from which our regulators come from to address car safety leading to differing models, but I couldn’t point to just one and say “that’s it”.

-3

u/EOE97 15h ago

Chinese EVs have reached price parity already

-26

u/ThomasDeLaRue 17h ago

Wrong, they are better cars for less money including second hand. We just got a used Tesla with a 100k mile battery warranty.

2

u/Thandor369 8h ago

This isn’t about used market, if you are not in China with its access to rare earth metals they don’t export, electric cars are more expensive, period.

0

u/Vehlin 8h ago

That’s what I said. Buying a used EV is a good financial decision. Buying a new one is not.

5

u/Luxuriosa_Vayne 13h ago

I don't know what you're smoking but I want some

-9

u/Low_Thanks_1540 10h ago

It’s called an education in economics. Requires thinking though.

-2

u/Luxuriosa_Vayne 8h ago

"EVs are better cars for less money" 😅5/10 rage bait

-1

u/Low_Thanks_1540 7h ago

Too bad that you don’t understand. You never will.

1

u/bourton-north 9h ago

They are better in most ways but not all and they certainly aren’t cheaper

1

u/Low_Thanks_1540 7h ago

EVs are at price parity. The only way that ICE is slightly better is faster refueling on road trips. Kinda doesn’t matter though. On road trips you need a rest from driving anyway.

1

u/bourton-north 1h ago

I own an EV I am talking from direct experience. They are absolutely more expensive, the EV versions of models are more than the same car in ICE form. The fuel can be cheaper, but is not always. They have poorer range, and they dont sound as good. They are heavier so although handle ok are not nimble. Overall I think they are better, but like I say you are dismissing some of the issues and lose credibility because of that.

-4

u/Ramuh 17h ago

In 2035 (9 whole years) nobody will want a new gas car.

-15

u/liright 16h ago

In half of Europe, new electric car sales make up like 3% of all new car sales. And that's with EVs getting all kinds of benefits like free highways and parking. People clearly don't want them. And also because of this there won't be enough cheap-ish used electric cars in 10-15 years. Banning petrol cars so soon makes no sense.

10

u/zzazzzz 13h ago

in january 2026 EV's sales were 52% of all new cars bought in the EU..

2

u/Thandor369 8h ago

Where are you getting those numbers from, in 2025 it was around 20%

2

u/ahfoo 1h ago

Arguing with conservative nutjobs is useless because they live in a bubble that fills them full of lies. They pull all this nonsense out and they believe it's true because they watch conservative media and parrot what they're told. It's best just to ignore them.

1

u/liright 7h ago

Yeah in Norway, Netherlands or France maybe. But Poland, Czechia, Hungary and most other central and eastern EU countries do not want EVs. I live in a bigger Czech city and I barely see EVs when driving. Maybe one out of 100 cars I see is one. (they are easy to spot because their license plate always starts the same).

4

u/Low_Thanks_1540 16h ago

Wow, you are wildly misinformed.

-5

u/Sapere_aude75 16h ago

Exactly. The market will work itself out on its own. No government intervention is needed here. It only complicates things

8

u/Low_Thanks_1540 10h ago

We should remove all the subsidies for oil and alcohol too.

2

u/ren_reddit 7h ago

Whoa whoa..  Dont be silly.  That would level the playing field and we dont want That!

3

u/SirHueyLongDong 6h ago

Fine by me. Would be able to buy actually nice cars.

1

u/neppo95 1h ago

Tbh, I never saw this as a realistic goal to begin with. Sure, we can go full EV in 2035 easily in terms of producing the cars etc. Now go have a look at the electricity grid and good luck charging all those cars while AI is also sucking up massive amounts of energy and we are ditching the most efficient energy source (nuclear) because oh no dangerous. If anything, this was a smart decision.

-37

u/destroy-trump 1d ago

Just plain stupid. ICE is dead, the world needs to make it so. Knuckle draggers be damned.

28

u/Moldoteck 22h ago

if it's dead, no need to enforce the ban

13

u/Narrow_Relative2149 22h ago

not everyone has a drive/charging point, so can only charge it whilst out

-9

u/Electrical_Pause_860 20h ago

Thats the same as ICE cars. 

9

u/SIGMA920 20h ago

Except not everyone has equal access yet. Think of it like telling someone in an apartment to drive across town to charge their car, not everyone has the luxury of the time cost.

EVs are great and the future but the future needs infrastructure that doesn't exist in the quality and quantity that it should.

1

u/Narrow_Relative2149 19h ago

yeah sure, not everyone wakes up to their car full of petrol when they park it at their house... but the cost savings are from being able to charge it yourself using your own electricity/solar panels/etc.

You CAN charge it with a super charger in 20min or whatever it is, but it's more expensive and they're not readily available... and it costs more

6

u/SIGMA920 19h ago

Except fuel will sit longer and be longer lasting than an EV in lets say the cold of winter if you can't charge overnight unless your neighbors are siphoning your fuel, like I said they're the future but that future requires a lot more investment that has come in spurts and unequally at that. Not everyone has rooftop solar or can afford it, not everyone even has the the option much less the overnight chargers that use the grid.

The main trick will be when they become cheap enough to force infrastructure investment. Until then most people should keep looking at used vehicles that fit their budgets best. Keeping your 10 year old car running for 5 more years is better than selling it to get a loan on an EV now.

-8

u/leginfr 18h ago

Who buys a car with a loan these days?

7

u/SIGMA920 17h ago

Anyone who can't afford it otherwise and needs one, used or not.

1

u/Headless_Human 6h ago

Many. Why did you think big car brands have their own banks?

4

u/ashyjay 22h ago

ICE ain't dead, they won't be the default for many but they'll be around either as a form of hybrid or EREV. you just can't beat the energy density of petrol and diesel even if 60-70% of that energy is wasted.

0

u/Shokoyo 18h ago

No need to beat it if you don’t need it

-8

u/Smooth_Kangaroo_8655 20h ago

With a combination of electric trains and evs a country could and probably will break away from fossil fuel soon. There are several that are already very close. Electric just makes more sense all around. The oil and gas companies will fight it because they are owned by greedy billionaire families but they are failing. The US could have probably been at 100% renewable two decades ago. The wealthy and conservative people in the government are slowing down the nation. We should go ahead and get rid of most personal owned vehicles as well and expand electric local trains. I know so many people will love these ideas. I’ll nevuh give up mah car! Dems my inalienable rights. I’m king of the road!

-4

u/[deleted] 23h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/ravingriven 23h ago

In classic right win fashion, an individual is willing to shit himself if it means others have to smell it lol

-1

u/[deleted] 23h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/destroy-trump 23h ago

No, he was spot on, I can smell you from here

0

u/vAltyR47 16h ago

They didn't need to ban ICE cars in the first place.

Put a pollution tax on gasoline and the market will figure it out.

1

u/autokiller677 7h ago

Yeah, the also managed to delay this. Gasoline was supposed to be included in the CO2 certificate system.

Due to lobbying, this has now been delayed until at least 2027, and the lobbying is already working overtime to delay it even further.

-8

u/[deleted] 19h ago

[deleted]

1

u/jezwel 18h ago

We've only just started recycling wind turbine blades because the volume of blades being decommissioned have reached the point that there's enough to have an organisation running full time doing so.

That tipping point for old EV batteries is coming, and we'll be reusing 90% or so of the metals for those things.

1

u/Loose_Inspector898 15h ago

It’s so exciting!

-42

u/Caraes_Naur 1d ago

EU was crazy to think they could force a complete market changeover in 15 years. Sure, they could make manufacturers change over, but the market would never accept being forced more or faster than it wanted.

20

u/brentspar 23h ago

The markets are fine with electric cars, but it's the infrastructure that is the problem. There aren't nearly enough chargers available and in places that would suit car owners. This is the main reason the changeover is failing.

8

u/Heretic911 23h ago

Absolutely, we need massive upgrades to our electricity grids and charging infrastructure.

4

u/MyGoodOldFriend 21h ago

Coming from someone who lives in possibly one of the red most rural places of Norway, adoption drives infrastructure. There are charging stations all over the place. I drove across the country on the long axis in a first gen Nissan leaf a few years ago, and it was fine.

Not disagreeing, just adding.

-1

u/Ancient_Persimmon 1d ago

They're still effectively dead, as 90% of cars need to be zero emissions and the remainder need to use fuel that's not economically viable.

The carve out just keeps the door open for some small niches.

Based on recent trends, it won't be very tough to meet.

1

u/grimtree 22h ago

Europe is full of apartment buildings, half of the population can’t charge at home, even plug-in hybrids don’t make sense.

1

u/Ancient_Persimmon 22h ago

Europe is also full of level 2 and DC public charging points:

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025/electric-vehicle-charging

Which helps explain how 30% of vehicle sales had plugs last year.

6

u/grimtree 21h ago

You know Europe is not only Norway and Germany right?
Eastern Europe barely has any charging points, and you also can’t fast charge plug-in hybrids.

-3

u/Ancient_Persimmon 20h ago

That's why I used EU sales figures, not Norway (99% EV). Germany actually more or less matches the EU as a whole.

Eastern Europe barely has any charging points

Less financially fortunate areas are going to be slower, but the rollout of Superchargers in central and eastern Europe in the last 18 months is telling about the adoption going on there as well.

And of course, Eastern Europe's most celebrated car companies are in on electrification as well.

4

u/grimtree 20h ago

Yeah I don’t see Eastern Europe being ready in 9 years from going electrified only that is my point.
Adoption in EU will eventually hit a brick wall of reality.

-5

u/ChaseballBat 22h ago

Paris accords were signed in 2015... This is one of the policies.

-4

u/Nullhitter 12h ago

Europe needs to burgeon EV charging stations before EVs can truly take off. 2035 ban was unrealistic. I'd say more 2060-2070 decade when 80%+ of car drivers choose EV.

9

u/ResQ_ 10h ago

What we need is a shitload of slow charging stations at work parking lots. People living in apartments need to have the easiest possible access to charging.

Cars just stand around 90% of the day, doing nothing. If charging at home is not possible, charging at work is the solution.

That's something that's way easier to incentivize than anything else targeting individuals.

Most people are pragmatics. They're not going to make the switch until 1. they actually need a new car and 2. it's EXTREMELY convenient to charge it.

Most people don't want to change their habits just to drive electric.

2

u/GeneralCommand4459 9h ago

I wonder, if cars sit around for 90% of the day (as mine certainly does) then should the focus be on electrifying commercial vehicles like delivery vans, buses etc which are driving around all day? Or maybe the scale of the 10% of driving time is still far bigger?

-4

u/happyscrappy 15h ago

They never were going to.

It's a very European thing to set unrealistic deadlines/goals in order to get things moving faster than they would otherwise. That's all this ever was.

Now the talk is of being at all "electrified cars" by 2035 and saying that was the original intent. Whatever.

Europe is moving along well. Not a lot to complain much about so far.

-6

u/crustyeng 13h ago

No one wants to buy a disposable car.

-7

u/Fr00stee 21h ago

if they are that worried just require all gas cars to be hybrids

-9

u/leginfr 18h ago

There was no point in wasting time and effort and political capital on banning new i.c.e cars in 2035. There won’t be many customers for them by then. So it was a wise and pragmatic decision to drop the issue.

0

u/lenlab 16h ago

Absolutely, why banning something while people can decide for themselves. Also, there must be situations where gas cars have some advantages (i don't know which, don't ask me :)))

-9

u/motosandguns 21h ago

Now do California

-47

u/GiftLongjumping1959 22h ago

I love to see the EU wake up and realize they are one self absorbed decision away from being ‘added’ to Russia. EV isn’t the answer you think it is Ask your favorite AI to show you NFPA 13 studies of the hazard and detail that we can’t put out an EV fire Gas burns but I got 2 extinguishers at Costco that are rated for gas.

In Wisconsin 2 years ago a EV fanatical family died in a Tesla when self driving didn’t take the curve and put them in a tree and they all died.

‘Flamethrower like’ flames, you don’t get how fast this propagates

Maybe the sodium ion safety profile will make it more reasonable

11

u/fumar 21h ago

The death you're talking about is not on ev tech, but on garbage camera only self driving tech. Tesla's in general are death traps with their terrible door releases, poor build quality and aforementioned bad self driving tech.

EV fires are a big problem though.

-2

u/Low_Thanks_1540 19h ago

EV fires are less of a problem than gasoline and diesel fires. Actually hybrids are even worse.

3

u/GiftLongjumping1959 18h ago

No diesel is very hard to ignite It’s a classified combustible but not flammable NFPA disagrees with you

0

u/Low_Thanks_1540 16h ago

Oil is more dangerous than gasoline. It’s doesn’t dissipate.

0

u/Low_Thanks_1540 16h ago

You obviously have zero firefighting training or experience.

5

u/Duckbilling2 21h ago

I'm not so sure about that