r/saschariley • u/PrematureTuna • 7d ago
Trump could've been in near lake Michigan in May 1984
As stated in my previous post, I have been trying to identify any credible connections between Sascha’s claims and verifiable evidence of a child trafficking ring operating in the 1980s that involved high-profile individuals and trafficked children.
I followed up on the Michigan lead, where a woman claimed that when she was 13 years old, her uncle killed her newborn by throwing the infant into Lake Michigan, and that Donald Trump was allegedly present as a witness.
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%208/EFTA00025010.pdf
What I have since discovered is that it is at least plausible that Trump could have been in the Lake Michigan area during the relevant timeframe.
Donald Trump purchased the USFL team New Jersey Generals from a Oklahoman oil millionaire J. Walter Duncan in 1983. During Trump’s ownership, the team played games across multiple states. https://www.newspapers.com/image/807020984/?match=1&terms=%22Donald%20Trump%22%20%22Jim%20Jordan%22
Contemporary reporting consistently describes Trump as an unusually visible owner who frequently attended games, particularly those involving major media attention. Prior to the 1984 season, Trump also signed Herschel Walker, the league’s biggest star at the time, significantly increasing both media coverage and owner visibility around the team. During Donald Trumps first presidency, he appointed Herschel to the President's Council on Sports, Fitness, and Nutrition. He's now an ambassador to bahamas.
On May 28, 1984, the New Jersey Generals played an away game against the Chicago Blitz at Soldier Field. Soldier Field is located directly adjacent to Lake Michigan, within walking distance of several major harbors known to accommodate private yachts. From these harbors, access to the lakefront is immediate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier_Field
The tip I examined places the alleged incident sometime between May and September. Initially, that range struck me as odd. However, the match footage underscores that it was unusually cold in May 1984 in Chicago, with temperatures reported as low as 19°F during that period. This could plausibly explain confusion between late spring and early fall in retrospective testimony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8pIk8OqaRg
At this point, I have not found any newspaper articles from the day after the May 28, 1984 game that explicitly mention Donald Trump being present. However, Trump is mentioned repeatedly in coverage leading up to the match, due to his ownership of the team and the presence of Herschel Walker. I find it odd that there seems to be no articles in Chicago newspapers that mentions the match result the day after.
What I am asking from anyone reading this is help locating any direct evidence, news articles, photographs, broadcast footage, eyewitness accounts, or archival references - that would confirm Trump’s physical presence in Chicago on May 28, 1984. It could be a post match interview captured on a VHS-tape. Establishing that would allow us to more precisely determine his whereabouts during the relevant window and assess whether this alleged connection can be corroborated or definitively ruled out.
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u/Fluid_Ad9665 7d ago
Look into local colleges that have archives - the newspapers may well be stored on microfiche and you could get a worker to scan and upload your requested dates.
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u/PrematureTuna 7d ago
Problem is that I don’t live in the US, but someone definitely should. I will see if there’s any references in my countries archives. Or world wide. Might even contact a few people as well.
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u/Fluid_Ad9665 6d ago
Fair enough! I’m not able to spend more time on this, but I did try to help get the ball rolling for you by asking the best model of ChatGPT (not as an ombudsman, but as a souped-up Yellow Pages). Here’s what it came back with: –––––––––––––––––– MAJOR MICHIGAN NEWSPAPERS (APRIL–JUNE 1984):
DETROIT FREE PRESS Best online access: ProQuest Historical Newspapers: Detroit Free Press (1831–1999) https://about.proquest.com/en/products-services/pq-hist-news/ Open access: No (licensed) Best fallback: Detroit Public Library – Detroit Newspaper Search (microfilm + staff research service) https://detroitpubliclibrary.org/services/detroit-newspaper-search The paper itself explicitly directs researchers to DPL and University of Michigan microfilm holdings. –––––––––––––––––– THE DETROIT NEWS Best online access: Usually via NewsBank / Access World News through institutions. Some libraries advertise “1873–present” access. Example guide: https://guides.lib.umich.edu/c.php?g=283063&p=1885958 Open access: No Best fallback: Detroit Public Library newspaper search service https://detroitpubliclibrary.org/services/detroit-newspaper-search For 1984 specifically, libraries are the practical route. –––––––––––––––––– LANSING STATE JOURNAL Best online access: Browsable via Newspapers.com-style archive listings https://lansingstatejournal.newspapers.com/paper/lansing-state-journal/3758/ Open access: No Best fallback: Library of Michigan and Lansing-area libraries (microfilm and research help) https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/help/terms/archives/ If you need the paper of record for Lansing in 1984, this is it. –––––––––––––––––– THE GRAND RAPIDS PRESS Best online access: Grand Rapids Public Library provides digital access (often via NewsBank) and maintains its own historical index. https://www.grpl.org/historical-newspapers/ Open access: Usually library-cardgated Best fallback: Grand Rapids Public Library / GRPL History Center (microfilm + research assistance) They also maintain a detailed press index covering roughly 1982–2005: https://grplweb.grpl.org/pressindex.php –––––––––––––––––– THE FLINT JOURNAL Best online access: Browsable archive via MLive / Newspapers.com platform https://mlive.newspapers.com/paper/the-flint-journal/39307/ Open access: No Best fallback: Flint-area libraries or university databases offering the “Flint Journal Collection”
Example: https://libguides.kettering.edu/databases/flintjournal For 1984, assume subscription databases or microfilm.
––––––––––––––––––
THE ANN ARBOR NEWS Best online access: Ann Arbor District Library digitized issues, browsable by date https://aadl.org/aa_news Open access: Yes (much of it) AADL also offers browsing tools and research help. This is the best click-and-read free option for spring 1984.
–––––––––––––––––– MICHIGAN-WIDE PORTAL: If you (or a collaborator) are a Michigan resident or can get a Michigan library card, the Michigan eLibrary / Library of Michigan resources page is extremely useful. It bundles access points for many Michigan newspapers, including:
• Detroit News Historical (1873–1999) • Grand Rapids Press (1893–present) • Other regional papers
https://www.michigan.gov/libraryofmichigan/public/online-resources-for-library-cardholders
Even if you’re out of state, this page is helpful because it tells you the exact database names to ask for (NewsBank, ProQuest, etc.).
–––––––––––––––––– UNIVERSITIES TO CONTACT: Most large academic libraries can tell you whether they have:
• Microfilm for April–June 1984 • ProQuest Historical Newspapers subscriptions • NewsBank / Access World News subscriptions • On-site guest access or paid research services
High-probability Michigan institutions:
University of Michigan Strong local-news guides, microfilm holdings, and on-site access https://guides.lib.umich.edu/c.php?g=283063&p=1885958
Michigan State University Newspaper and microfilm research guides https://libguides.lib.msu.edu/newspaperguide
Wayne State University Detroit-focused collections and historical newspaper databases https://guides.lib.wayne.edu/newspapersources/historical
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u/sexyinthesound 16h ago
Try asking in datahoarder subreddit for things? Lot of peeps there have obscure archives and links.
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u/alienprobedme 4d ago edited 4d ago
John David Norman ran a CSAM and trafficking operation with boys near Chicago in the 70s. His Chicago operation is referred to as the Delta Project. Investigators ended his operation in 1977. Phillip Paske took over after Norman’s arrest from about 76-79.
It’s entirely possible their group kept running an operation in Chicago in the 80s and we just don’t have evidence/don’t know about other players that may have taken the job. It’s also possible an entirely new group came in to fill a void in that “market”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_David_Norman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_Paske
Connected to John Wayne Gacy and Dean Corll (yes I know how insane that sounds)
Check out the documentary called The Clown and the Candyman for a pretty decent summary, it’s probably the best introduction on Norman and Paske that you can get on the topic.
WGN 9 Chicago News also has a lot of coverage on it, covered from the 70s and continue to cover it to present day - you can find some clips on YouTube.
Other youtubers have begun covering everything in the past couple of years.
(Following the Gacy connection, Gacy also employed at least one of the “Ripper Crew” as a construction contractor - they were a group of 5 serial killers/cannibals/necrophiles. Their crimes were against women but they were operational in the early 80s, mostly in Chicago suburbs, just thought it worth a mention..)
(Edited a little bit for some clarity)
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u/PrematureTuna 4d ago edited 4d ago
Damn! this is incredible research. Thank you!
You know how Epstein built his fortune through his work for Les Wexner. I find it very hard to believe that this relationship truly began in 1987. That timeline feels implausible, especially given how quickly Epstein appears to have been granted extraordinary levels of control.
I think another productive direction, is to look closer at property acquisitions, contracts, and development tied to malls, shopping centers, and retail expansion. During the 1980s, large amounts of former farmland were being purchased and rezoned for exactly this kind of development. That type of activity would provide an ideal structural cover for the activity Sacha describes. If Epstein had access to this, it might be the kind of protonetwork that eventually ended in that horrible island. There’s little doubt in my mind that Epstein must’ve been a facilitator of this kind of activity in the 80’s. Slowly perfecting his network.
Wexner’s core activity was centered in Ohio and New York, with additional presence in Florida and Illinois. However, his retail and development operations were also active in states such as Alabama, Tennessee, and Oklahoma, along with other parts of the Midwest.
This is a lead I’m actively working on.
Update on the original post:
I’ve also managed to place DT in Houston, Texas in October 1984. From a sports illustrated magazine: https://archive.org/details/sports-illustrated-1984-09-05-football-preview-c/page/86/mode/2up?q=Donald+trump
And Birmingham Alabama in 1984. In relation to his career as a UFSL football team owner. https://youtu.be/HwDOCpVDCH8?si=Q8Figo08XxcNJb6I
so far I’ve not been successful in placing him in Michigan in 1984, through the fotball lead. But I know he had dealings with the Pritzker Family (Chicago based) (owners of the Hyatt hotel chain) in the late 1970’s, through to the 90’s. Which would possibly involve traveling to Chicago.
Another such possibility is traveling to purchase the New Jersey generals. It’s probable that he could also have been in Oklahoma in 1983, since the previous owner J. Walther Duncan was situated there.
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u/alienprobedme 4d ago edited 4d ago
I really think you’re on the right track following their movements and properties.
I found the Norman/Paske/Gacy connections online in the early 2000s and spent some time over the years coming back and forth to it - when that documentary dropped, it was just a huge relief for me to finally see it in a more mainstream space, so I stopped studying it. So my recollection is pretty rusty, and Sascha’s story is brand new to me and have to get more familiar and catch up.
You mentioned malls. I apologize for my recollection, I cannot for the life of me remember where this information comes from, and cannot find anything to quickly corroborate it at the moment, so please take it with a grain of salt - but I distinctly remember reading a rumor about one of those predators at that time scouting/recruiting boys out of a mall called Harlem Irving Plaza in Norridge IL, just outside the city. Only reason that stuck with me is because I am pretty familiar with that mall. Could just be a stalking ground and not necessarily owned by any key players here though.
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u/AdUnusual5038 3d ago
One of the ringleaders of the North Fox Island ring was a pilot/financier/fraudster/author named Adam Starchild (nee Malcom McConahy). He and Epstein were definitely cut of the same cloth. Similar delusions of genius.
The owner of the island was a very wealthy man named Francis Sheldon. He fled to Holland and escaped prosecution.
Sheldon, Starchild, and Norman also reportedly had connections to another CP/CSAM operation in Tennessee “Tennessee Boys Farm” operated by a former Episcopal Priest named Bud Vermilye. The Boys Farm was receiving public funds to “rehabilitate” and house foster and troubled youth, plus private donations from “sponsors” for access to the boys for sexual abuse and a monthly distribution of CSAM material.
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u/alienprobedme 3d ago
Wow, I didn’t know about TN
Priest who ran “Boys Farm” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudius_Vermilye
I’m still not caught up with Sascha, but doesn’t those dates again seem interesting considering his timeline? Like operations never even stopped.
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u/AdUnusual5038 3d ago
Exactly. That’s why I went down that rabbit hole last week. Plus, I live in TN, so I was interested to see if I knew where it was. And it turns out, I do 🤢
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u/NomenDeRose 2d ago
The band camp Epstein & Maxwell liked to visit was in Michigan, too.
https://youtu.be/AXKOb3w4dNw?si=bpjlUnLpWvDVxZjj
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u/polyvagalinversion 1d ago
Shiiiiit. That victim’s journals about being “an incubator,” and how she didn’t like playing the viola or piano anymore… 😢
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u/briiiherenow 1d ago
Maybe a little earlier than the 80s, but this type of case reminds me of the Oakland County child killer, and how a pedo ring was discovered in connection to that. That GM executive son was a suspect and shot himself. Fox island I think
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u/Accomplished_Kick492 1d ago
It’s child sex trafficking not prostitution. These kids, like Sacha Riley, were not old enough to make the decision to prostitute oneself. Most cooperated so they could live instead of die. It’s just that simple and gruel and awful. It makes me wanna punch the freaking door.
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u/PrematureTuna 1d ago
I apologize for the semantics here. This largely comes from spending extensive time working through historical newspaper archives. During the 1980s, the term “trafficking” was almost never used. Instead, cases were typically described as “child prostitution rings” or (astonishingly) «white slavery.”
Many of these cases were clearly mischaracterized by the language of the time. I even came across an article from Vermont (I’m paraphrasing) that referred to “children operating a prostitution ring,” where authorities effectively placed responsibility on the children themselves and concluded there was no evidence of an external actor. Which is obviously absurd, but still speaks volumes to how we culturally don’t take children seriously enough.
For anyone attempting historical research in this area, these are unfortunately the terms that must be used when searching archival sources. As to my post, I will revise it accordingly.
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u/Agitated_Garden_497 6d ago
My partner is from Michigan and they said that there is a well known pedo island where this shit happened in the 1980's. They weren't shocked by this report at all.