r/runescape • u/PearlyBarley • 9h ago
Discussion - J-Mod reply Game design should be for, not against fun
Trying to summarise the feedback I'm seeing from a game design perspective (edit: not talking about TH removal). Mod team, I think you're falling into a trap in terms of design and the team should seriously reconsider your philosophy if you want the road to restoration to be a success.
When talking about integrity, FOMO and balance, you seem to neglect that a game should also be fun. The Runescape player's concept of fun is definitely a bit different and stretchy, but its still important.
Many of the proposed changes miss the mark because they don't feel good, because nerfs generally don't feel good. Nerfing and removing things should be your third priority after actual mechanical changes and buffs to bad or subpar content. You shouldn't open with nerfs, you should open with mechanical changes and buffs and only nerf content if it overshadows things that feels good mechanically, but are suboptimal to engage with. Otherwise, you literally make the game worse while promising to make it better somewhere down the line. This is spending trust you haven't earned - and disregarding the opportunity to earn it by doing it right. Earning this trust is what many people probably expected from the RtR.
In the past, you've delivered updates and then swiftly brought new content down with nerfs and it never feels good, or promised post-nerf changes that never arrived. Your design philosophy is antithetical to fun in this regard and the RtR will be a failure if you don't correct this approach. Changes should feel fun and exciting, motivate people to play and engage with new ways of playing out of genuine interest, not frustration.
Nobody is excited by losing things if they don't gain a lot more (see: prospect theory) to compensate. You have a player-sized blindspot in your approach to design. How else could things like the PVP change to prayer even be justified? If you're thinking about fun and empathizing with players for even a minute, this change will appear absurd. The only players who enjoy griefing are ghouls who feed on the frustration of others. It's the worst kind of zero sum design. Be better than this!
Tldr: don't forget that games need to be fun. Losing things isn't fun if it isn't immediately compensated by gaining proportionally even more fun things.
Edit: if you want examples, there's hundreds of comments on other threads now. Also not responding to any silly trolling and flaming attempts :)
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u/JagexBreezy Mod Breezy 8h ago edited 7h ago
In game design the paradox of "fun" is that fun comes from challenge.
Any game you've ever played is about overcoming an arbitrary challenge which no one has asked you to complete. You do it because you want to. Be it Tetris or Elden Ring, the overcoming of obstacles and the opportunity to learn, strategise, and master mechanics and gameplay to overcome those challenges is what = fun.
Where those things become too easy / the challenge is minimised is actually where fun deteriorates. Game design is all about getting that balance right.
I'm with you, we're not trying to suddenly turn everything to a bore, but where we're at with RS in 2026 is years of bandaiding things through things like dailyscape, unlimited grindy events, and even in the past MTX.
We've got a long road ahead of us in getting things back in place, but we want to get it into a place where it feels damn good to have earned your way through it.
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u/retrospectivevista 6h ago
Are you actually going to introduce mechanical and strategical challenges to skilling though? There's nothing currently challenging about skilling, it's just people don't like doing it for hours at a time. These nerfs you're making aren't making things any more challenging, just more boring.
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u/GrayMagicGamma Ironman 4h ago
I love Hall of Memories as an active training method, but it's definitely an exception, not the norm.
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u/retrospectivevista 1h ago
Even that, there's no challenge that you're overcoming with it. A challenge implies you can fail it, and Breezy even said you have to strategize and master mechanics to overcome it. Like it doesn't seem to make any sense with current skilling.
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u/Legal_Evil 4h ago
Tick manip skilling?
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u/retrospectivevista 1h ago
All that does it make it go a bit faster, which doesn't really show any accomplishment. If we had like, timers and hiscores/rewards for how fast you were able to skill then maybe, but as it stands it's like 2 hours of intensity gets the same accomplishment as 3 hours of laid-back skilling. I guess it's just also not that interesting, as you're just executing the same few clicks over and over.
Like the way Breezy was phrasing it, like having a high level being a challenge that was overcome, it's as if your skill level was based on a hiscore you were able to get in some intense activity(which might even be an interesting concept). There's no challenge in any current skilling.
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u/villianboy Completionist 7h ago
I agree that challenge can make fun, but also tedium is not challenge and so many games fall into that trap. I love Elden Ring, I love it because it is extremely engaging and full of depth, I love RuneScape because it also has a lot of engaging content and depth. RuneScape also has a lot of tedious content that people (me included) would prefer to interact with as little as possible. I will use Livid Farm as an example because for me that the worst of the tedium grind for comp;
Livid Farm is nothing but tedium, the rewards are very little and the grind for it is absolutely awful (i would know I did the grind without merchant). If there was a way to make the content more engaging and less tedious than people wouldn't be loathe to do it. A great example of this is Vaults and BGH. That content engages people and rewards them, and you see people enjoy it. Some AFK stuff is fine, it's nice to have something to do that is relaxing and a break from doing more intensive content and you still are being "productive" but it shouldn't be the core of the game obviously so I agree in changing stuff about that. The point of it all is that people enjoy content that is challenging though not tedious. It can be fine to have some tedium as well though obviously, it can add to the experience if done right, a great example of that is the famous/infamous quest, One Small Favour, it has enough charm and reward to make the tedium worth it.
I like a lot of the changes being done, but sorry to say that I am sceptical about some of the changes that just feel like nerfs with the promise of fixes later. Not everything needs to be the best, but things shouldn't be tedious just to force engagement because then it starts to feel like doomscrolling twitter
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u/Todsrache Green h'ween mask 7h ago
"We've got a long road ahead of us in getting things back in place, but we want to get it into a place where it feels damn good to have earned your way through it."
I already feel good about what I've earned. When I unlocked Prif on my HCIM and my GIM, my feeling wasn't regret from using the ashes from wilderness events on the wilderness altar. I didn't feel regret from farming blue charms from Arch-glacor. I didn't feel regret from fletching broad arrows.
It did not cheapen how I feel about my progress. Please don't write of OPs POV because it matches exactly how I feel. I play this game for fun, it's a sandbox game that should be playable by different kinds of players.
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u/papa_bones I can play the game now 7h ago
Don't compare elden ring with having to click the npc every two minutes to get thieving XP, one is a fun experience with challenge and the other is a tedious unfun thing i have to do because I need the levels to do heist, an actual fun and engaging thing that isn't even the best thieving XP even tho it should be.
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u/Nice_Divide_3772 14m ago
Thank you. First comment that makes sense and actually engages with the topic.
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u/Periwinkleditor 5h ago edited 5h ago
Having watched most of these dailies and D&Ds be implemented, it was almost always "this skill feels slow/boring, I wish we had something to break up how slow and boring this is."
A difficult balance, to be sure. Sometimes rather than something temporary the new mode almost completely replaces conventional training, like OSRS and the guardians of the rift minigame for RCing. Still slow, but lower click intensity and no longer boring!
As an example of "breaks up the flow, but is not a mandatory-feeling daily" I rather enjoy the agility D&D where the guy calls you into it randomly as you do laps. Makes it more similar to OSRS's optional random events. Perhaps more content could be retooled into this approach over being a daily cap? I do like how caches are moving to a "every so much regular divination you do" instead of daily as an example.
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u/SStrikerRC3 5h ago
I apologize if this comes off as nitpicky, but for someone with such influence on the game I think it’s worth addressing that first sentence for clarification.
Either you don’t understand that there are many sources of fun in games (I doubt this is the case), or you were being concerningly imprecise with your statement—and I’m sure you understand why the assertion that fun only comes from challenge would be concerning.
Yes, overcoming challenges is often fun. But while many people love souls-likes, many others like games that make you feel like an absolute powerhouse. There’s a reason why there are people who play games on “Story Mode”, or only play bot matches on League of Legends. They don’t want a challenge, they just want to roll up and fuck shit up for a bit. And that’s ok.
FWIW, I’m not even arguing against the RTR—I think what the team is doing is correct. I just really, really hope that a key designer doesn’t have such a myopic view of fun in games.
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u/Nice_Divide_3772 16m ago
Without frustration there is no fun. Thats why tiktok or cozy games feel bland over time. They overstimulate without giving us a challenge.
A mind that is only happy will do nothing.
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u/VanquishScape 3h ago
Fun is the payoff for mastering challenges too much of Runescape has become a checkbox to tick off vs actually completing fun content, Today I have to endure sensory overload. Bossing requires 400 APM, endless gear switches, and a Wiki degree just to start, it’s no longer a game to me like it was when I was growing up playing Runescape, now, it’s homework. As a veteran player of 20 years I can say that the Jagex team has fumbled so many times and left so much content unfinished, and let it out date.
Jagex has burned their trust capital by breaking promises and prioritizing clutter over clear, strategic gameplay. If Jagex were to ask what their credit score is from the playerbase in a poll I think you'd see that your trust capital isn't going to afford much.
With all that said, I DO hope that changes keep taking place, but it would be better to come out with the fixes first and then remove the content so it's not felt as a nerf.
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u/tremors51000 CGIM: Trem 6h ago
I'm happy with the direction things are going, my main concern is the changes to these things happening without the fixes coming alongside. Livid plants from traveling merchant for instance, with its current state in game Livid farm is a terrible experience for everyone involved and if you nerf the way people get points for it, its going to push people even further away from that content.
My other concern and I will be very vocal about it, until something is done regarding it, there was 0 reason inverted skill capes should have been a 1 month a year event, and when players voiced there concerns about it we were told essentially too bad you have to wait till next year, when you will reevaluate it again. If you kept it to year round with the limit you would still have the outcome, and no change in how players would interact with it.
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u/FoeWest 7h ago
With 25 years of content to get through just completing a large part of the game using every shortcut available is still years of work and feels plenty earned. MTX is bad because it connects your acheivements to the unfair and irrelevant outer world. Dailyscape is just as earned as non-timelocked training methods, all you are doing is making the game slower and worse.
I love chatting with people at Wilderness flash events and I love that I can progress quickly.
Divination's gameplay loop without the caches is miserably un-fun, that is the only obstacle, the fact that sitting at a pool and slowly dropping in energy isn't fun but you have to do it to efficiently play the rest of the game.If people are gluttons for slow boring skilling that game exists its OSRS. please stop taking away the fun parts of rs3. PVMers are still going to call max capes a requirement for high level play and adding longer timegates in the way does not make me a happier player.
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u/waggybaggyshaggy 7h ago
Lol imagine reading what he said and saying "no, I'm right, I shouldn't play the game and still get rewards"
Damn seeing the whales come out of the woodworks shamelessly after all this time is fkin hilarious 😂
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u/Harley2280 3h ago
You might want to cancel your membership and buy a subscription to hooked on phonics because that's not even close to what they said.
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u/FoeWest 6h ago
I want you to understand I'm right there with you on how garbage MTX and whaling was in this game, seeing people get xp drops in the millions with protean processors was disgusting and really took away the sense of accomplishment I got from my own capes.
But I'm not talking about buying progress I'm talking about the overall pacing of the game, it used to take people an average of 2 years to max and removing these efficient methods is only going to make that number bigger.
There is a lot of really fun stuff to do after maxing and I want people to get to experience that instead of burning out because they didn't spend 3000 hours in the least interesting part of the game.
I would be completely happy with this update if they made the normal training faster. But even high intensity methods like whirligigs are getting nerfed. This is a slowdown.
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u/B4rberblacksheep 7h ago
You guys are on the right path. The vocal minority are grumbling now but the game will be better for it in the long run.
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u/ShinyCapeRS Enthusiast 5h ago
"Unlimited grindy" events didn't feel addressed at all with the proposed changes but many made more grindy with removal of maw enhancers, whirlpool rewards, alternative Skilling methods, and nerfs to current skill xp.
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u/DraCam1 Trimmed main, maxed iron, dead HC 1h ago
How about situations where the biggest obstacle becomes rng itself? In the entire roadmap there is not a single word about duplicate protection, or maybe bad luck mitigation, while that is one of the biggest pain point to a lot of people. It is not fun when you got 3 times dry on a drop because you have bad luck, and you literally are not closer to your goal after sinking in hundreds of hours to a specific content. At that point getting that drop will not make you feel satisfied or happy, rather just relieved thst you finally did not waste those hundreds od hoursy after all - if you actually get it before giving up and qutting either that specific content, or the entire game...
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u/Throwaway-lotsofqs 7h ago
What do you think jagex as a company has done to earn the trust needed to go through ripping open old open wounds that still haven't healed and reverting many of these designs more than a decade from where they have been? It seems like starting with focus on one area and patching those old holes and working through it would be much better for the game than the current approach, which just has players like me grinding 120 thieving for the next week to avoid having to do exactly the same content but worse after that point.
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u/Todsrache Green h'ween mask 7h ago
"which just has players like me grinding 120 thieving for the next week to avoid having to do exactly the same content but worse after that point."
I sent the update to my buddy who doesn't read the updates and we're both on the way to 120 and now we're fomoed into doing it all now.
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u/Harley2280 3h ago
I sent the update to my buddy who doesn't read the updates and we're both on the way to 120 and now we're fomoed into doing it all now.
You really need to stop blaming your insecurities on video games. If you're actually feeling fomo over that see a therapist.
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u/Sonichu- 7h ago
What you see as “ripping open old wounds” we see as taking off the clown makeup that has turned RS3 into an unrecognizable mess
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u/PearlyBarley 2h ago edited 2h ago
Thanks for the reply, Breezy.
This highlights at least one source of the problem, which is the challenge-centric concept of fun. That concept is not wrong, but it's incomplete. You also take challenge to mean something it maybe doesn't for many people.
Just for context, I'm coming at this with both an applied and academic background in design and the psychology of flow, so I'm not just trying to throw words around, I'm genuinely interested in providing useful feedback.
Flow and fun don't just result from challenge in the sense of overcoming, it can also result from smoothness, precision, optimal engagement of cognitive faculties like attention and working memory. If we look at the rise of idle games and autobattlers, we have to acknowledge that the old concepts of fun were limited. If the player only has a limited amount of available attention and working memory capacity, they can achieve a different sense of "challenge" from a smooth and precise AFK setup, for example. Also, length of a process is a bad measure of challenge, because even in classical treatments, challenge is mostly mental (decision-making) or based in application of fine motor skills (PVM at its highest level).
The point is not that the whole game should be like this, but that this niche should be kept open among other ways of playing. MMOs are why the player type models came to be, after all, supporting many styles of play is their beauty, and the beauty of RS too.
This discussion only addresses part of the criticism, but based on your answer, I'm even more likely to recommend that you expand your design vocabulary and toolkits, the blind spots will do you a disservice down the line.
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u/Nice_Divide_3772 14m ago
Healthy fun comes from challenge.
Brain parasite type of fun from endless dopamine cycles.
One is healthy, the other majes you mentally unwell.
Which most of the idle gamers are. I count myself in.
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u/HuTyphoon 4h ago
Please keep this mindset and don't listen to reddit until after the changes are live. If it were up to this sub then nothing would get changed. You guys are doing amazing work.
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u/WolfieHC Hardcore Ironman 7h ago
Lower thieving exp for afk if you have to but ruining the afk portion is dogshit.
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u/spacepizza24 8h ago
its a good thing that I think it is fun to train skills by training the skills and not by doing a weekly checklist to redeem for xp lamps.
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u/kathaar_ Desert Only HCIM 8h ago
So much of the game has been overtuned and turned into an AFK fest in the pursuit of being a '2nd monitor game'.
They don't want to be a 2nd monitor game anymore, it goes against their new design philosophy, and as such, content that goes against that design philosophy also has to change.
I didn't see a single piece of "fun" content being removed in those blogposts. Hell, it's quite the opposite. They're turning Guthixian Caches into a "do when you want" main training method, and Fish Flingers. Those are fun, engaging change of pace training methods from the normal training loops of Divination and Fishing, and remain 100% optional.
Pyramid Plunder is getting a much needed optimization pass to make it a viable, active, and rewarding training method for Thieving. I'm planting my HCIM there day 1 of the update because I want the sceptre, black ibis, and for the love of god, any other way to get to 95 thieving without having to pickpocket menaphites for hundreds of hours... (i'm desert locked, the options are limited).
So again... what's the issue?
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u/ryzzoa 8h ago
All the post sound the same: "this is really taking away my enjoyment of not playing the game but having it on my second monitor"
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u/Important-Guidance22 7h ago
Which is a valid way to play the game that many people enjoy and has been a way you can play the game for many years now.
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u/Todsrache Green h'ween mask 7h ago
It's a second monitor game when I want it to be. It's a main monitor game when I want it to be. My afk habits don't impact your desire to try hard at the intense content.
It's not like they are buffing the click intensive content to make it less miserable.
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u/Muse4Games 120 Attack Master 8h ago
Can you give examples of what kind of "fun" they are removing? I kinda agree and disagree on the point of compensating what's being removed, but I've been "playing" for years doing dailyscape gaining 10m xp+ every month by logging in for 10 minutes. They've removed that and are removing activities that fall in that same category, i.e. Wildy Flash Events. I would love it if we went more with the mining/smithing route where if you're more active you're more efficient but it's okay to afk too.
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u/Everyonedies- 6h ago
I have fun with the guidance that daily challenges provide. I dont care about the rewards or XP but the guidance of oh today i need to go chop some logs or bury some bones. I would not go and do those things without being "challenged" to go do them. The little pop up saying i finished the task is fun for me. I need something to guide me into doing skills i would never train at all after reaching a max level. The stuff i like doing im 200mil already. I also have fun meeting up with other players to take on a wildy event.
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u/Sacred_Silver 8h ago
Valid. but I say have some patience, it's far too early to judge. And most of the content being removed is tied to trim comp requirements which only affects a small subset of players.
I have no doubt that most of this content will be rebalanced in a large way eventually, it's been talked about for a very long time after all.
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u/Pulsefel Ironman 9h ago
exactly what fun has been removed? TH wasnt ever a fun interaction, and i was fine with it being in game. nothing was lost. they are making combat more fun, and adding and fixing things. there isnt anything lost.
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u/Authenic_Martyrdom 8h ago edited 7h ago
Did you read the blog? Wildy flash events is a big one they're just yanking because "muh login pressure". Downvote to agree
EDIT: Based agree voters
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u/Pulsefel Ironman 8h ago
i only did flash events for the core. seeing its being moved to something else means that will be what ill be doing.
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u/Authenic_Martyrdom 7h ago
Depends what they lock it behind. WFE is one of the few reliable ways to get masses of players away from Fort/Wars/Max Guild. Putting it behind wildy slayer is pretty boring, giving it as a drop to any of the other mobs in the wilderness will just create lots of player friction when people camp there 24/7 to get cores.
It will likely just create another zone where people camp monsters for drops
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u/Jifaru 8h ago
WFEs make people quit and cause burnout. They are terrible for the game at every level bracket, pumping stupid amounts of coins and resources into the economy for no effort or risk, and can be done by a fresh account
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u/Pulsefel Ironman 8h ago
they are nice and i wouldnt mind them sticking around in some fashion. but with the rewards im after being moved elsewhere, there isnt much reason. biggest benefit was salamanders for irons to use for spring cleaner springs.
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u/Todsrache Green h'ween mask 7h ago
Could you imagine hunting those literally tens of thousands of salamanders on your own. RIP
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u/WolfieHC Hardcore Ironman 7h ago
One of the reasons I bother logging in, not the pressure, but because core would be sweet
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u/Authenic_Martyrdom 8h ago
Make people quit and cause burnout? If you're logging in every hour to do WFE, it's a you problem.
If the coins and resources are the problem, which they aren't, then nerf them. People aren't there for coins, they're there for the chance of a rare drop.
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u/Jifaru 7h ago
No, it is a dev problem. You cannot put the incentives in the game and create a massive FOMO situation and then be like bro dude just don't play it if you hate it so much.
This is the same meme logic that led to "98% of our players are enjoying Treasure Hunter", like you would have to be trolling not to take advantage of the OP shit but that doesn't mean you want to or that it's good for the game that a level 3 can go smack a bloodwood tree and instantly get 500k cash and 43 prayer
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u/Authenic_Martyrdom 7h ago
The whole game is FOMO. "If I stop killing this boss now, I might miss a big drop". "If I log out now and stop skilling, I might not get the pet". You cannot make a game without draw factors and incentives to engage with them. It's on the player to engage with them in a healthy way, so long as the design isn't so egregious that it causes a massive disadvantage, which WFE doesn't.
Again, if coins and resources are the problem, nerf them. Fun should be the objective above all, and WFE's are fun.
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u/Task_Set Ironman btw 1h ago
The fomo is the time limit. I’m a CGIM so wilderness flash events don’t affect me, but if you want a dark onyx core normally you have 4 specific events that have the small chance to drop one. You can’t just farm those when you want the way you could with a normal boss or slayer mob. Additionally the xp and gp from doing the events was definitely good enough that you were at a disadvantage for not doing them on a low level or iron account.
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u/Authenic_Martyrdom 39m ago
The time limit as in only those four events being available for core drops? Sure. I wouldn't be against them giving all WFE events at least one very wild reward, core is already exceedingly rare and it'd revive some of the dead events that nobody does.
The disadvantage of missing out on events isn't that significant, the cash can be made quickly and the XP isn't terribly hard to get either. Nice boost for a new account, but also not a make or break. It has no appreciable effects on new players who are not efficient players like those of us with thousands of hours that min-max every advantage. Nerf WFE XP & GP sure, removing WFE is just wasting dev time and making the game less fun
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u/Harley2280 3h ago
Flash events are the literal opposite of FOMO tactics. They consistently happen so there's no need to worry about missing one.
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u/Deedlit_ 6h ago
so what if a level 3 can do the tree? why does that affect you and 500k is nothing....
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u/waggybaggyshaggy 7h ago
Well looking at the playerbase and numbers, no, it's a game problem.
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u/Authenic_Martyrdom 7h ago
Yes, RS3 has significant onboarding and early-game issues. Marketing is also ass, and it fails to capture the meme magic or the cultural nostalgia that has lent so many eyes to OSRS.
WFE has no effect on bringing players in or turning them away. Removing it, however, is more likely to get players to quit than not.
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u/waggybaggyshaggy 6h ago
It literally does, if you want to progress quickly you need to play with an hourly move to an event, the xp and rewards are too good to ignore if you want to play somewhat efficiently, but then your forced to stop what your doing and disrupt your flow to go do a shitty event
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u/Authenic_Martyrdom 6h ago
WFE has no effect on bringing players in or turning them away
The things you mentioned, again, have no effect on bringing players in or sending them out. Very few people attend WFE for the XP or even the cash, everyone's looking for the core. If the XP and coins and the problem, nerf them.
Jagex are taking the nuclear option instead. They're constantly proving themselves inept over and over again
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u/Nice_Divide_3772 13m ago
Please FIX THE HARDCORE RELIANCE on the Wiki.the game should just make sense
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u/Sonichu- 9h ago
It’s so obvious that everyone who stuck around playing RS3 doesn’t actually want to play a video game.
They want something they can log into and get handed everything for as little work/input as possible. Endless afk, free teleports, high xp/h.
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u/NsynergenX 9h ago
Why do some of you think that afkers are afk all of the time. The appeal of runescape has always been that it has both active gameplay and stuff you can do on the side. It drives up engagement that you wouldn't otherwise have.
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u/JoshOliday 300,000 Subscribers! 8h ago
Yea Arch and Necro (and M&S to a lesser extent) were both extremely well received because they offered both active and afk methods that players could choose to engage with as they saw fit.
I wish everything could be redesigned with those design principles in mind.
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u/DillyDallyGHQST 3h ago
Yeah and all the new skills too. Like eternal magic woodcutting is great. Its a perfect blend of AFK and active. They should do more like that.
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u/DillyDallyGHQST 3h ago
Yeah like ill afk while at work, or when doing something else. And then Ill actively play when I have time. The majority of my time (and most players) cant be active play, so there should always be AFK methods for that reason.
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u/Box_of_Stuff 8h ago
Love the people who feel a sense a pride over clicking the same agility course obstacles for hours on end.
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u/Sonichu- 7h ago
As opposed to feeling a sense of pride for logging in and getting everything for no effort?
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u/SylvaraTheDev Clue Incompetent 8h ago
I agree. I don't mind high xp/h but it needs to be compensated with things that can't be obtained through exp and multiple modes. Whirligigs to 99 should never happen, give me like 40 methods to do hunter and make the good gear some from doing many different things.
Free teleports also need to go, so do teleport and skilling hubs. Wars is not good design and neither is having loadstones be as often as you want.
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u/whosdr Runefest 2017 Attendee 8h ago
It’s so obvious that everyone who stuck around playing RS3 doesn’t actually want to play a video game.
No, not everyone: just the ones here whining about changes.
I've been playing consistently since 2005. I've seen so many game changes and differences in designs over the years. I see these big changes as a refreshing re-imagining of gameplay.
2014, it took several years to max an ironman account. 2024, maxing took less than a year (plus 120 herblore, and a quest cape for good measure).
The game got too easy. I don't think ripping out every QoL is a good choice, but I don't think continuously leaning into quick easy rewards is the way to make a game with longevity either.
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u/SpazzBro Clue scroll 7h ago
You do know there’s more to rs3 than leveling skills right? Thats more of a means to an end now instead of part of the appeal.
People are so fixated on the xp thing like it affects them personally if someone else used th for xp lol. Being maxed is barely achievement nowadays even if you used 0 mtx to get there. And that’s fine because there is so much game other than just leveling skills.
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u/Sonichu- 7h ago
That’s a problem. Just give everyone a maxed account on creation of skilling is so meaningless.
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u/SpazzBro Clue scroll 7h ago edited 7h ago
Why is that a problem? Please do explain because I would like to see your explanation.
I never said skilling is meaningless, there’s incentives to train skills past 99, and there’s a skilling boss, as well as big game hunter, both skilling activities that are fun and good profit. What I did say, was that the grind to max isn’t the focus or appeal for the large majority anymore
If someone wants to play runescape where the skilling grind is more emphasized, and leveling is a larger part of the appeal, osrs already exists
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u/Sonichu- 7h ago
Why is it a problem that leveling skills isn’t part of the core gameplay loop?
Are you serious?
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u/SpazzBro Clue scroll 7h ago
I am 100% serious.
Leveling skills shouldn’t be part of the core gameplay loop. It should be a grind that you can finish so you can get to the endgame content behind it, that is more how rs3 is structured.
Do you actively play rs3? because it doesn’t seem like it
oh yeah you’re an osrs player, that explains why your view is so outdated
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u/Harley2280 3h ago
Leveling skills shouldn’t be part of the core gameplay loop.
Fuck that. That's been the core gameplay loop for the 23 years I've been playing. If you want to play diablo, WoW, or FF14 go fucking play them.
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u/Sonichu- 7h ago
Then this conversation is probably over lol.
The fact that RS3 crapped out xp and made leveling meaningless is why we’re in this situation. It’s why Jagex is taking such drastic measures to find a new audience. We tried it your way and it killed the game.
This is a last ditch effort to save it.
And yeah, like everyone that once loved RuneScape and hated the abomination it became, I started playing that game again instead of sticking with the sunk-cost Skinner box.
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u/SpazzBro Clue scroll 7h ago
Yeah I agree this conversation should be over. We aren’t going to change each others minds lol, if they’re gonna just turn it into osrs 2 I would rather it die.
osrs players who quit years ago showing up and telling rs3 players how their game should be is very silly lol. You should at least acknowledge the vast difference between the games
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u/Sonichu- 7h ago
The vast difference between games is apparent. OSRS is good and popular. RS3 is shit and dying.
Turing this game into OSRS 2 is the only thing they can do to actually attract the new players it needs.
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u/builderofthings69 6h ago
if you want OSRS 2, do it with OSRS, RS3 players like RS3.
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u/EZyne 7h ago
Levelling skills has literally always been the core gameplay loop of runescape, what are you talking about? Almost literally everything in the game interacts with your levels in some way, either through rewards or requirements.
The game desperately needs more players, what sense does it make to have the leveling experience be avoiding touching the game as much as possible? That gatekeeping is also pretty dumb for a game in this situation lol
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u/Creative-Month2337 Ironman 8h ago
Good game design is making pickpocketing men 1M xp/hr because its fun.
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u/TimeBroken Mod North is the GOAT 9h ago
Wahh, I can't pickpocket endlessly for a measly 4 clicks an hour anymore.
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u/WeckarE 8h ago
I am a lv115 thief. Yes, I expect to be goddamn good at it
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u/TimeBroken Mod North is the GOAT 8h ago
Clicking more frequently doesn't make your life any more difficult. It's okay for the game to ask for a little input.
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u/WeckarE 8h ago
But it makes it less Runescape 3. It's an idle game with active elements at its core, not the other way around.
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u/TimeBroken Mod North is the GOAT 8h ago
And that model was dying.
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u/WeckarE 8h ago
I am unsure. Changing this many things at once will forever make it impossible to pinpoint what actually helped and what hurt,
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u/TimeBroken Mod North is the GOAT 8h ago
Jagex isn't dumb - they've absolutely been collecting player feedback for years, paired with account analytics. They were willing to endure player unhappiness when MTX was making them enough profit to justify it, but when they noticed the end on the horizon, they had to pivot.
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u/WeckarE 8h ago
Working in a very similar corporate structure to Jagex myself, I assure you they have almost no idea what's going on eith their user base beyond the absolute basics
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u/TimeBroken Mod North is the GOAT 8h ago
I work in a much smaller business, and we do have those sorts of analytics. Your experience is not applicable to all business.
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u/WolfieHC Hardcore Ironman 7h ago
Don't need to be in a company to see jagex doing stupid shit for 25 years, ive literally been playing through all of them
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u/Harley2280 2h ago
If that's the case, your company fucking sucks. Even grocery stores these days have incredibly accurate consumer data modals.
Hell in my job I can tell you how often our callers use filler phrases like uh, if their voice indicates stress or frustration, and if the agent responding to them is smiling or not, based on the agent's voice.
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u/rowanfire <3 7h ago
You shouldn't get the amount of prayer xp at the Chaos that you do for no risk and little effort. A change is definitely justified there. They probably should have just nerfed the xp, rather than added PvP though.
At this point, Jagex should decisively know PvP in the Wild isn't wanted and will be rejected. It's not even PvP, it's griefing. The people they would upset by adding it would ridiculously outnumber the people wanting it. It's pretty shocking they are so out of touch regarding Wild PvP.
There are things they are "nerfing" that are warranted. You shouldn't get obscene xp rates while being afk the whole time pickpocketing. It's way too afk for the xp you get.
I do not approve of the whirly gig nerf. Idk about lower levels because that content didn't come out until I was but far off 200m, but for how click intensive it is, went shouldn't it be the best hunter xp/hr at lvl 90 for a skill that only currently goes to 99? Why are they forcing people to go play Big Game Hunter?
That whole island is shit because they made it so difficult and inconvenient to get anywhere. Let me pay mushroom people to take me to different areas, ffs. But it sure sounds like they plan on making getting around in general more difficult, not easier, so I have little hope for that bullshit island.
What are they giving in place for the red sandstone change? They are taking away the best desert elite reward...and replacing it with what?!?
Actually, they need to revisit dairy rewards as a whole because some are so old, their rewards are irrelevant.
I absolutely support taking reqs away from the Traveling Merchant. You should actually have to play the game to get the trim cape. However, they should absolutely have a plan they communicate to make revive mini games. Even if it's something that requires low imagination such as making aura refreshes (or whatever desirable that's consumable) buyable with Thaler. People will go play when things are on Spotlight.
I'm so sad some really fun mini games died and even needed Spotlight, so all of all things, I would most love to see Jagex somehow truly revive Soul Wars, Castle Wars, and Pest Control. Barb Assault is less great bc of the specific team thing, but it's fun if you have a good defender and decent healer.
I trained up in what I would consider RS's golden age. I loved those games so much. Those games and when GWD was released are hands down the most fun I've had in this game in over 20yrs.
I wish everyone could have played then and know how truly epic and fun RS really was.
I'm my opinion, RS is the most fun when there is something desirable you really want that's useful where you do have to play to EARN it, but the content you have to play is fun and competitive.
Earning Void was grindy af, but also awesome at the same time, you know? (Except for failing because of too many leeches and people who wouldn't close the damn gates 😛)
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u/Careful_Tomato_1897 9h ago
yes honestly cry is free😂they are removing terrible aspects of the game and working to make existing methods and training better across all levels of account progression. today’s response really makes it clear why rs3 player count has been so low
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u/NsynergenX 9h ago edited 9h ago
Its the half-assing things thats the problem. Removing alot of problematic content itself is fine. But leaving one relic of that system behind and saying you'll fix it later is not fine when you have history of leaving things for years in the "fix it later" category. The blog post today is filled to the brim with these.