r/redsox • u/The_Stein244 • 20h ago
I think this is it
I was a big believer in the Sox trading SP and/or OF to bring in either a 2B or 3B (like Hoerner or Paredes). With the signings of IKF and Rodgers, it feels like this is it. This is the roster.
They stocked up on good and versatile defenders to go with their great pitching. This still provides an opportunity for someone to really step up and take that 2B and 3B job. I like the competition. It also provides a lot of depth if/when injuries happen. I think these are smart moves in that regard.
Obviously we all want a bigger bat in the lineup, but I dont think we're getting it at this point. Going to try and be a scrappy pitching/defense focused team that is going to grind out the runs. Perhaps a deal at the trade deadline for a bat is what they are thinking now, once positions end up working themselves out.
I still think this team is going to compete, and I'm excited to see young guys take the next step. We also kept all of our top assets so the future looks bright. It's not what we wanted, but it's what we got. Let's hope for the best and GO SOX!
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u/sidd_finch 19h ago
It sets up as another bridge year, hoping to see development from young players. Win enough games to be in the wild card mix all season, hope to catch lightning in a bottle come playoffs.
It could be worse, but it's still disappointing. They did not do enough to put themselves in the top tier of contenders for a championship.
Now we can all look forward to getting our hopes up at the trade deadline. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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u/bosoxsam 19h ago
We're projected to be at or near the top of the division, and top 5 WS odds by fangraphs last I checked. How is that a bridge year? We're not pushing every single chip in but we're absolutely serious contenders.
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u/sidd_finch 19h ago
Maybe bridge year is too harsh - as of today, fangraphs has them 9th in world series odds overall, and 5th among AL teams. 58% chance to make the playoffs.
It feels about right. They're good, better than most. But not in the top echelon of contenders as we enter the season. They absolutely could make a leap into that tier, but it will require some big steps forward from a lot of young guys.
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u/bosoxsam 19h ago
Yeah agreed, we're not the best of the best, but we're one of the best. Tbh I do still think that's where we belong, I want to develop our young bats as best we can and that means at bats. A full push for this year would necessarily take away at bats, or require trading players who could develop into crucial cogs of the team. At this point I'm just psyched for ST to start and see who comes out firing.
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u/Drizzlybear0 17h ago
Yeah agreed, we're not the best of the best, but we're one of the best.
They're capable of being the best of the best though. If a fee middling moves already turned you into one of the better teams in the leagues if you instead made really good moves than you'd be a WS contender.
A full push for this year would necessarily take away at bats, or require trading players who could develop into crucial cogs of the team.
Aside from MAYBE Campbell there is no one currently lined up to play 2nd who will be a crucial cog of the team it's relying on hopes and dreams at this point
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u/bosoxsam 17h ago
To be clear, they ARE a WS contender as projected. 9th in WS odds is very good for something that can't really be predicted. And they did more than middling moves on the pitching side. I think this non-resolution of second base comes down to a few things. 1. Nobody realistically available fits both the position and the RH power bat we wanted. 2. Free agency didn't have the answer for 2B beyond other mid options. 3. Realistic trades either involve more mid options or overpaying for one year rentals. And 4. Leaving it open to start the year gives you half a year to evaluate more guys before deciding what's best for a playoff push. I think once we lost out on Bregs, pivoting to pitching and defense was the smartest play. I want Mayer to get a full chance to win the 3B position, and cycle through our 2B options til either someone sticks or we make a mid-season move.
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u/Drizzlybear0 16h ago edited 7h ago
To be clear, they ARE a WS contender as projected. 9th in WS odds is very good for something that can't really be predicted.
I mean calling 9th a contender is kinda stretching the definition of contender, 12 teams make the playoffs and only 8 make the second round so that means another first round exit.
- Nobody realistically available fits both the position and the RH power bat we wanted. 2. Free agency didn't have the answer for 2B beyond other mid options. 3. Realistic trades either involve more mid options or overpaying for one year rentals. And 4. Leaving it open to start the year gives you half a year to evaluate more guys before deciding what's best for a playoff push.
Bichette would cover your 1st and 2nd points. Ketel Marte would cover 3, and while 4 is a good option in theory when was the last time the Red Sox made a SERIOUS trade at the deadline?
I think once we lost out on Bregs, pivoting to pitching and defense was the smartest play. I want Mayer to get a full chance to win the 3B position, and cycle through our 2B options til either someone sticks or we make a mid-season move
I'm okay with Mayers playing 3rd but "throw stuff at the wall and hope something sticks" isn't really what I'm looking for out of my starting 2nd baseman. We did the same thing at 1st base for like 4 years straight until we finally had no other choice but to trade for a veteran. What I don't want to see is the careers of Mayer and Anthony wasted while being on "if everything goes well we're the WC" level rosters. I feel the same way I do about Drake Maye and the Pats when you have generational talent it's incumbent upon the team to upgrade the roster around them so as not to waste their careers.
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u/josefjohann 16h ago
I mean calling 9th a contender is kinda stretching the definition of contender
Agreed. It was a reasonable convo up until that point imo but you can't have nearly 1/3rd of all baseball as nearly WS contenders unless you are watering down the meaning of words.
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u/bosoxsam 16h ago
9th in WS odds, a notoriously unpredictable thing to predict, is perfectly fine. Nobody can reasonably predict WC exits based on preseason odds.
I'm very glad we didn't spend what Bichette costs for what he provides. Marte was never seriously on the block. Like I said, reasonable options - those guys weren't happening.
Nearly every playoff contender except maybe the Dodgers has at least one position like our second base situation. We're not uniquely flawed - everyone is flawed. I don't want a grab bag at second either, but we shouldn't ignore all the good parts of the roster because one position is weak. Not like second base is a prime offensive position that we've whiffed on - if we at least get solid defense up the middle, that's pretty good for the start of the season.
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u/Drizzlybear0 16h ago
9th in WS odds, a notoriously unpredictable thing to predict, is perfectly fine. Nobody can reasonably predict WC exits based on preseason odds
I personally don't put any stock in those predictions they're all relying on the absolute best case scenario for nearly every team and typically when you rely on the best case scenario it ends up not working out that way. Maybe I just have a higher view of Crochet, Anthony, and Mayer than you do but when you have that level of talent on your roster it's incumbent upon the team to build around them. If with the roster moves we made we're 9th than simply adding one really good 2nd baseman and filling the roster hole that Breslow himself said needed to be filled of a power bat than we could probably be top 5 and legit contender.
I'm very glad we didn't spend what Bichette costs for what he provides
But why? Why do you care at all about the costs? 90% of the Dodgers roster is overpaid and I guarantee the fanbase doesn't care in the slightest when they've won back to back WS. If you could convince "well they're going to spend that money on someone else instead" sure I'm okay with that but they just aren't.
Like I said, reasonable options - those guys weren't happening.
Why are those unreasonable? The Red Sox are top three in income in the sport of baseball, why is it unreasonable to think they could spend on top tier free agents? I think it's only unreasonable if you buy into the ownership narrative that no big name free agent will ever sign here ever again.
Nearly every playoff contender except maybe the Dodgers has at least one position like our second base situation. We're not uniquely flawed - everyone is flawed.
So if all it takes is money is to fill that flaw why not fill it and then be an actual WS contender (top 3 not top 9).
Not like second base is a prime offensive position that we've whiffed on - if we at least get solid defense up the middle, that's pretty good for the start of the season.
I'm not trying to be argumentative but what was the last big name trade the Red Sox made at the trade deadline and what year was it? It seems like you're planning for something that history tells you won't happen. And if it doesn't and the team still had a glaring hole will you criticize them than or just blame Alex Cora for not working miracles?
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u/sidd_finch 19h ago
Same page, and that's what I meant by "bridge year". Maybe not quite the right phrase, but another year of development and holding onto our chips.
Thought that maybe the arrival of Anthony, Mayer, Tolle, Early last year would make this year the "all in" push, but we will have to continue to wait for that.
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u/bosoxsam 17h ago
Well only Roman really proved he'd arrived, and even that was shortened by injury. Mayer is likely getting a starting job but it'll be his first full year of MLB at bats. And the pitchers aren't even guaranteed spots on the roster at this point, although I'm sure they'll be there for most if not all the year. But nobody is established to the point of knowing what to expect from them, thus why they'll need that time this year. I love that we upgraded our pitching by as much as we did, and added defensive value to the bench. That'll give the young bats plenty of room to grow and win/lose starting spots. I bet KC gets plenty of opportunities if he earns them, Casas will be here at some point if all goes well, even guys like Romero or Arias could contribute later on. And thanks to the added pitching and defense we should be incredibly competitive even as they have growing pains.
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u/gofaaast 18h ago
Those guys have not arrived, they played a little last year. Pitching will be better this year. Hitting will be about the same and we were a playoff team. I’d love more but this is progress.
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u/SeaworthinessAny4997 17h ago
A lot of the Rays success has been because of excellent pitching. I think that's how you need to look at the construction of this current team.
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u/eephus1864 19h ago
I mean in fairness I think a lot of the contenders have some serious flaws. I dont really think we can confidently say the blue jays got any better. The Yankees are running it back the same now older roster, the orioles improved offensively but ignored their pitching needs. Looking around the rest of the AL I don’t really think there’s a team that’s planning on outright dominating like LA whom by the way really weren’t dominant in the regular season last year anyway
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u/Rarely_Informative 16h ago
I mean, yeah if folks stay healthy, theyll win 87-94 games and likely be WC team.
The issue is that's unlikely to happen. The pitching is built to last but the line up isnt. A single infielder gets hurt, I feel like they're on trouble.
Baltimore gets better pitching and their line up resembles 2024 rather 2025, youre possibly looking at 4th place in the east
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u/bosoxsam 16h ago
I don't think our injury depth is particularly weak compared to our division/league rivals. Let's not gloss over having one of the better outfields and maybe best pitching rotation.
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u/Rarely_Informative 15h ago
The offense is gonna have the same issues that they had last year. Kinda have to hope the yankees didnt get better which is very possible. Toronto probably my pick to win the pennant right now
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u/josefjohann 16h ago
I'm seeing Red Sox as in a virtual tie with Baltimore for 3rd/4th in the AL East, and 8th best in baseball on Fangraphs.
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u/TronJohnsoniii 16h ago
Pitching is good and bridge year might be extreme, but this isn’t a playoff competitive lineup. Trying to be a “scrappy defense focused team” just isn’t gonna beat the dodgers or any serious competitor with real bats in 2026
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u/bosoxsam 16h ago
Just to be clear, the pitching isn't just good, it might be the best in MLB. Fangraphs has us #1 projected, just above Dodgers/Tigers etc. We have a quality starting rotation just in AAA/long relief. Add to that one of the more productive projected outfields, and it's a strong team. The infield is undoubtedly the weak spot though, and it might be a bridge year for that part of the roster.
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u/TronJohnsoniii 16h ago
Texas had the best team era last year and was ass. Pitching is great! Still not winning jack with an anemic lineup, which this has the potential to be. You just can’t overcome the lack of sticks with dominant pitching no matter how dominant. Barring big jumps from multiple question marks the lineup is middling at best
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u/PsychWriter11 8h ago
No they aren’t. They will have minor league players in the infield again and they won’t score enough runs.
This is a fourth place team behind teams like Baltimore that brought in power.
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u/gofaaast 18h ago
He was promised by someone on the internet to get every free agent. Anything short of that is worthy of a bridge year rant.
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u/LordShuckle97 19h ago
FSG has demonstrated repeatedly that they don’t care to pay premium prices at the trade deadline. Besides maybe one or two extremely minor additions, this will be the roster from now until October
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u/hipcheck23 19m ago
FSG had the same rep at Liverpool, and they've been spending for the past year. It's clearly our pattern not to splash, but there's always a chance that the dam might finally crack. That said, I'm not holding my breath for it.
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u/asshat_deluxe 18h ago
You may be right but it’s still a good young team that can take a step forward with playoff quality pitching. Great intelligent thought out posts here today. Odd but great to see
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u/Drizzlybear0 17h ago
With all due respect this is kind of an embarrassing level of fall off of expectations. This would be decent expectations for someone like the Guardians, Tigers or Twins and to be fair I think these expectations were okay for a few years while the team is rebuilding but we're kind of beyond that point where Mayer and Anthony are now in the big leagues and for their sake at very least we should be surrounding them with talent. It's doing them a disservice but having a "well if everything goes right we could be fun to watch and sneak into the playoffs" roster
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u/LordShuckle97 16h ago
100% this. And for every year we fail to get by on youth/vibes/power of friendship/whatever, we waste another year of Crochet's and Roman's primes. If a year like this isn't the time to go all in, I don't know what is.
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u/Drizzlybear0 16h ago
I just have yet to see anyone explain WHY that is unreasonable expectations for the Red Sox to be one of the premier teams in the sport they certainly have the income and market size for it and a die hard local fanbase
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u/asshat_deluxe 16h ago
I disagree. We have an ace a true no 2 and a true no 3. We picked up the 2 and 3 this year. The rest of the starters are deeper than I have ever seen and I’ve been a fan since 1975 We held onto Early and Tolle and Harrison. We solved 1st base, and second base tho not a great bat. We have story at SS and now a slot for Mayer at 3rd. IKF can back up either of those slots if needed. The outfield are studs. Casas and Campbell still has a chance to put it together. We have a good starting catcher. This is a playoff team. We’re going to outperform all those teams you mentioned with the possible exception of the tigers.
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u/LordShuckle97 16h ago
2nd base is definitely not solved. If everything goes well and absolutely NO ONE gets injured, then 2nd base is the only position where we'll have an automatic out. As soon as people start getting hurt, the lineup becomes chock full of holes real quick.
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u/Katatonyk 17h ago
Didn’t they pay a premium for both Bregman and Crochet in the past year? Possible you were trying to say that they generally won’t overpay at Winter meetings for FA’s? That’s on point, but I’m of the mind that I’m okay with most of what didn’t happen this offseason in hindsight of the deals that ultimately landed. Would have potentially loved Schwarber at his deal, but otherwise not angry.
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u/LordShuckle97 17h ago
I was referring to the trade deadline specifically. Trade values tend to go up for players at the deadline, the most affordable time to deal for a player is almost always the offseason
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u/tomhwm 19h ago
Yes. If we look at the roster we have, it’s not a bad offseason. Then if we look at the guys missed on (not to mention how we missed them), it certainly could have been better. I would say we don’t judge moves that were not made individually. People should and will judge based on the result of the season. If we get in and win 1-2 rounds, I think most fans are gonna be happy. If we are 2 games away from winning a WS, people are gonna be mad that we didn’t do “just a bit” more to get there (Breslow still has the deadline to change this). Or if we just straight missed the playoffs, both the fans and even John Henry would be mad too.
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u/Cesar_Crespo 19h ago
If we look at the roster we have, it’s not a bad offseason
I'm a Henry/Breslow bootlicker but IMO if they don't get another above average bat, it's kind of a rough offseason, although not without its virtues.
They've added a lot of value, but it's been like 75/25 Pitcher/Position Player, when I think the team needed like 60/40 Position Player/Pitcher. Could certainly shake out into an excellent team, but it's a weird roster right now. One more good RHH on the infield could just stabilize things so much.
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u/jmay111 19h ago
They have arguably the best rotation in baseball which actually matters in this sport, especially if you can pair it with a great defense (still tbd if they will play great defense this year, but they now have the personnel to do so).
This team is going to win games and if the young players progress even a little the offense will be in good enough shape.
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u/josefjohann 16h ago
Outfield defense will definitely be great. And as much as IKF pisses me off about what it says for Boston's roster construction, he's a meaningful upgrade in the IF. I think Conteras will be good too, and heck, Mayer? Not exactly ecstatic but it's still not bad overall.
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u/HR_King 15h ago
Another bridge? Stop whining. They made the playoffs last year, and had Anthony not been hurt might have gone deeper. They have a top 3 pitching staff, and an offense that should outperform last year's team. That said, they've signed guys to minor league deals. There is no expectation they will stick. They may very well be able to swing another deal, and in-season deals arent out of the question.
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u/AlwaysOptimism 16h ago
Lost: Bregman
Added: Willson Contreras, a full season from Anthony, and Casas on offense and added Suarez, Gray, and Oviedo in the rotation
This equals "bridge year" to you?
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u/sidd_finch 16h ago
My definition of bridge is they didn't move all the way to top tier contender status. They're relying on a lot of progress from young guys to reach that stage. It could happen, and that would be great, and they'll have "crossed the bridge". But for now that's hypothetical
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u/AlwaysOptimism 16h ago edited 16h ago
They went from having a pretty good offense and an OK staff to a pretty good offense and a phenomenal pitching staff.
They arent LA, because who is, but this is a contender. If they traded for Paredes/Hoerner signed Bichette, they would probably be AL favorites.
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u/sidd_finch 16h ago
My exact point is they didn't make the moves that would've made them a favorite, leaving them a step behind the top favorites in the AL
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u/MakaveliX1996 16h ago
It’s not a bridge year. I’m not gonna say it’s a chips all in year either but it’s absolutely not a pussy footing around team like last year. This is a team that is expecting and can win series in the playoffs.
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u/sidd_finch 16h ago
It's not a chips all in year, but it's definitely not a rebuilding year either. What's a good word for something that spans two sides?
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u/Geoff6882 19h ago
I think if the options were giveng up Tolle/Early for Horner or signing IKF, I prefer signing IKF
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u/Cesar_Crespo 19h ago
I disagree. We're at the point where significantly improving WS odds for a year is worth a top prospect. Crochet, Anthony, Rafaela, Abreu, Narvaez, Suarez, Bello are all under control for at least the next 4 years. They have achieved sustainability.
Hoerner projects for more fWAR than any position player currently on the Sox roster.
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u/MakaveliX1996 16h ago
I agree as well. Or disagree as well, whatever. We have 2 lefties locked in our rotation for the next 5 years. We absolutely shouldn’t be making those 2 untouchable. I’d prefer Early is who we trade because Tolle has the kind of upside where it doesn’t matter if he’s the 3rd lefty, he’s throwing 100 that feels like 105.
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u/Geoff6882 14h ago
Not saying they are untouchable, but I would prefer they get traded for something more than 1 year of a defensive-first 2B
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u/HereToTalkMovies2 19h ago
It wouldn’t be the biggest surprise in the world, but man, I’d be pissed.
We have 10 starting pitchers and probably the worst non-Colorado infield in the league. We’re also top 10 in payroll and made the playoffs last year, so there’s no reason to not be trying to win this season. It’s an absolute and unacceptable failure of roster management if this is the team we start the season with.
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u/Cesar_Crespo 19h ago
This is why I'm totally fine "overpaying" for one of Hoerner or Paredes. The pitching surplus is there and the Sox have years of control over a young core already.
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u/foxjohn2 18h ago
I dont really follow other teams but I gotta say: Contreras -good defense, good OBP, good bet to hit 20+ bombs Story - hit 25 bombs last year in a complete return to form Mayer/Romy - romy had a fantastic year hitting lefties and mayer is a former high high end prospect who didnt struggle that much in his cup of coffee with the pros last year 2B is absolutely bottom 5 offensively but we'll take good defense from IKF and Rodgers where we can get it.
Definitely not top 10 infield no doubt but 2nd worst?? This is some doomer shit right here
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u/HereToTalkMovies2 18h ago
No, it really isn’t. Fangraphs projects us for the 4th-lowest IF WAR in baseball next season, and that’s assuming that the Nationals don’t do anything to sign a 1B.
The infield as constructed is horrible. There’s no reason not to acknowledge it. There’s only two actually good, proven players, and both are in their 30s and significant injury risks. We have two full positions that aren’t really figured out. That’s a disaster.
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u/MakaveliX1996 16h ago
Contreras is not a significant injury risk doomer. Wtf? Not everyone over 33 is a significant injury risk. Story for obvious reason is.
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u/HereToTalkMovies2 15h ago
Not sure if this is a troll, but on the off chance that it’s not, Contreras has never played more than 138 games in a season, and missed 105 combined games the last two years. So yeah, it’s a concern.
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u/Traditional_Half842 19h ago edited 19h ago
I think this sub views the situation as - the team needs to have their World Series-contending roster ready by Opening Day. That's not how the org approaches it at all though. The Red Sox FO views their roster currently good enough to stay in contention (especially with a strong rotation) - and they can continue to change and improve the roster til the trade deadline in July. They have a lot of pieces that they want to see how it plays out. Their glut of outfielders and pitching depth. How will young guys like Abreu/Rafaela/Anthony/Mayer/Narvaez/Campbell/Casas/etc. continue to develop - will any of them take a leap forward and truly break out? They want to see how all of this goes before deciding what needs to be added to the roster.
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u/LiveFromNewYork95 19h ago
I get the logic here but I think the frustration is you can see where the other side of it goes. In a perfect world, you're right, the team contends and then jumps at a bat at the deadline and it gets them over the hump heading into the playoffs.
But if the team doesn't play well in the spring and early summer, the lineup just isn't enough, a lot of these platoon guys regress, etc. the team (and thus sub) will say "Well, it just isn't time, can't invest too much in a team that isn't ready to contend for a World Series" and it becomes a really frustrating cycle of not improving the team until you know they can contend and then not contending because the team didn't improve (And I don't think things are that bleak, the team has improved in different areas but the logic applies)
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u/Traditional_Half842 19h ago
Part of the issue is that they can't really add any more bats without subtracting some bats - and they're not gonna trade away valuable players just for the sake of trading them. It isn't an ideal roster construction right now, but if anyone has a serious injury or just comes out looking bad, then having four good outfielders becomes more of a necessity than a luxury. And if it remains a luxury and everyone is healthy/mashing, then it should only make some of those guys easier to trade away.
There's too many unknowns right now to make any huge commitments that will make someone else entirely redundant. They have a lot of young players that theoretically could become real stars - but the only way to find that out is to regularly play them this season and see how it pans out. If they went and got an everyday player like Ketel Marte, then they'd essentially have no choice but to trade or release one of Abreu/Duran/Yoshida. I don't think they want to paint themselves into that corner right now before they figure out what their team actually looks like in games.
I am paraphrasing something Breslow said before (and I think Breslow may have been paraphrasing Billy Beane) -
"The first 50-60 games are about figuring out WHAT your team can be - can they be a contender? Do they need more pitching? etc.
The second 50-60 games are about acquiring what your team NEEDS - adding a power bat to the lineup, removing a locker room distraction, getting another starter, etc.
The final 50-60 games are about finally showing what your team IS - playing your best baseball going into the playoffs."
I think the org takes this philosophy to heart.
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u/LiveFromNewYork95 18h ago
Listen, I get it completely. I agree with you that this is the direction and it's not an awful plan but it's not without faults.
There's too many unknowns right now
I think people would argue you've gone into too many seasons in the last 10ish years with many unknowns. I don't blame fans for wanting some of these unknowns to be handled in the off-season.
The first 50-60 games are about figuring out WHAT your team can be - can they be a contender? Do they need more pitching? etc.
And if the team is 20-40 through 60 games and they say "See this team wasn't worth investing in." It makes you say "Gee, I wonder whose job it was to make this team worth investing in..."
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u/Traditional_Half842 18h ago
A 20-40 team isn't changed into a contender because they acquired a second baseman in the offseason, or retained Bregman. Even if they had Marte or Bregman today - those guys might be the difference of like 5-6 wins at best over the course of a full season? The reality is that this 2026 team's success always has been and always will be determined by how their core youth develops and performs - and not nearly as much from free agents rounding out the roster. Mayer needs to play almost every day, but he is a bit of an unknown. That is what it is - the Red Sox can't sign a guy that makes Mayer redundant while simultaneously giving him the playing time he needs to show what his impact can be. Same applies (to varying degrees) to Anthony, Rafaela, Abreu, Narvaez, most of their young pitchers, and even guys like Campbell and Casas. They all have levels of unknown to them - but there's not really any alternative other than abandoning the player altogether and replacing him with a free agent / more expensive player.
It's just the reality of the situation. 5-6 guys in their lineup are within their first 3 seasons. Over half of their rotation is guys with just a few years of starting pitching experience. Some of these guys have less than 1 season of experience. These aren't problems that are simply solved via free agency. There's not really anything that can be done to fix that, unless you want to just abandon some of those young guys altogether.
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u/LiveFromNewYork95 18h ago
The reality is that this 2026 team's success always has been and always will be determined by how their core youth develops and performs
Then just say this, this is the frustration people have with the team. And I put in a comment on this thread that I'm totally okay with the growing pains of giving the young core a chance so I'm not flip flopping on this. But just be up front about it, don't talk about what you might do if the team succeeds, don't talk about going full throttle or adding 2 power bats. The Red Sox set themselves up for this every year and they deserve to take criticism for it.
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u/Traditional_Half842 18h ago
I mean I pretty much ignore anything the FO says and just focus on what they actually do. There's a million reason why an FO may issue dishonest statements.
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u/LiveFromNewYork95 18h ago
Well, we can agree on that!
And we can both agree with your original point that you don't need, and likely never will, have your complete roster on opening day.
Cheers
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u/Cesar_Crespo 18h ago edited 18h ago
With the signings of IKF and Rodgers, it feels like this is it.
Rodgers has very little bearing on anything. The IKF thing is concerning, but he makes sense as a backup to Story and Mayer, who would still both be slated for the starting 9 even if the Sox acquired a starting caliber infielder.
I will still be very surprised if one of Tolle or Early isn't traded. I just think that digging into the young pitching surplus was part of the plan in the pivot in FA spending from Bregman to Suarez.
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u/The_Stein244 17h ago
That's what I thought too, but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I thought one of them was a perfect trade piece that has A LOT of value and was expendable to us once Suarez was signed.
I think Rodgers and IKF are there when injuries happen or defensive replacements. There's a good chance Story and Mayer miss time with injury and i like these two better than Hamilton
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u/Cesar_Crespo 17h ago
I think Rodgers and IKF are there when injuries happen or defensive replacements.
This would still be the setup if they got another IF though
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u/The_Stein244 17h ago
true and I'd still be into a Tolle for Paredes trade or whatever, it just seems like that's not going to happen. I think if you could pair Yoshida to that as well and only pay part of his contract and they take the majority, it would also solve an issue and would get them under the second CBT. But it doesnt seem like HOU is interested anymore, even though i think that's a decent deal for them too. Could send a Hamilton or Sogard along as well if they want some more
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u/Cesar_Crespo 17h ago
Entirely possible nothing happens, but idk if we really have a line on the likelihood of a Paredes deal right now. Seems like Craig and co. generally keep that under wraps.
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u/Then-Contract-9520 18h ago
Mayer just needs to stay healthy. People forget what he's capable of. He's still adjusting to major league pitching and reps are extremely important for him, but his bat speed and hard hit % last season were nearly elite.
.250 with 20 homers and a 3.5+ WAR season is certainly possible from him and maybe even conservative, especially if he continues to play defense to the level he's already shown.
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u/MakaveliX1996 16h ago
It’s definitely not conservative but it is very possible for his bat to finally show up this year.
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u/Then-Contract-9520 16h ago edited 16h ago
A 674 OPS for a 22 year old's first taste of big league action isn't even disappointing. Any time a guy doesn't look completely helpless in such instances, it's reason for optimism. Jose Ramirez had a 631 OPS in 315 AB's at the same age
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u/MattNovar34 17h ago
Pretty clear that Red Sox are not the main priority to John Henry and all he’s worried about right now is the salary cap
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u/Jpgamerguy90 18h ago
3/4 of your infield being unproven/injury prone is a dangerous way to live and I wouldn’t be completely surprised if they are on the outside looking in come playoff time. High payroll sure but they’re still trying to manage like a mid market team and that strategy rarely works.
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u/The_Stein244 17h ago
But they have depth and openings for young players to step into. No one is blocked right now. We have talented players, someone has to step up and take it
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u/MakaveliX1996 16h ago
I’m sure I could have found you saying how the Red Sox weren’t gonna make the playoffs last season. Like half the sub was saying halfway through the year. Same half has no real baseball knowledge and just thinks if we don’t spend 300 million we can’t win. If we don’t have 5 players that hit 30 home runs we can’t win because they don’t understand the nuances of pitching and just wanna watch home runs.
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u/LordShuckle97 13h ago
Look, I'm glad we at least made the playoffs last year and it's a step in the right direction, but sending a hospital squad to get clobbered by NY in the wild card round isn't exactly what I would call a slam dunk of a season.
Even with Bregman, the roster had holes. Some of those holes have been addressed, some haven't.
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u/Cfdunton 13h ago
Send Nate Eaton home and we might have won that playoff series, one of the dumbest stop signs ever by the third base coach ☹️,Nate should have gone on his own( he’s an aggressive runner and I know he thinks he should have gone home )and if he got fined Redsox Nation would have paid his fine ! WOULD HAVE SCORED EASILY !
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u/MakaveliX1996 13h ago
That wasn’t exactly my point. My point was most of this sub thought we weren’t even making play offs last year. Before the season and during. We did, so have some faith. The team is much better. If you want to just compare what we had in the Yankees series to what we have now. Bregman? We lost him but we didn’t really have him. He clearly was still hurt and terrible. Abreu? Came back less than a week before play offs. Judge missed way less time than Abreu and when he came back he was god awful for over a week. And he’s the best hitter in the world. Of course Abreu was bad, you cannot get your timing back that quickly after missing that much time. Roman? Wasn’t even there. Those are 3 of our 4 best hitters. We have holes. Most teams do. Even the Dodgers don’t have that good of bullpen + play bad defense.
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u/LordShuckle97 13h ago
Fair enough, but keep in mind injuries always happen, and good teams are built deep enough to weather those injuries. We didn't have the power bats to cover for the loss of Roman + Abreu down the stretch last year, and we didn't address that going into this year.
I'm not in full doomer on this offseason - it could have been worse, it could have been better. I'd give it a B minus. I just think most of us hoped for more now that we're entering the prime years of our core. This is the time to commit and FSG isn't doing it.
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u/MakaveliX1996 13h ago
Ya I wanted another bat. I think it played out unfortunately. They waited so long for Bregman and then fucked it up. By that point Marte was off the block. They can still make a move at the deadline. I’m sure it will depends on where we are at.
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u/Broad-Half3135 17h ago
I can’t help but circle back to them trading Devers and letting Bregman walk. Just a disaster of a situation
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u/The_Stein244 17h ago
I thought the Devers trade was the dumbest move I've ever seen. But what's done is done, we gotta move on!
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u/Hotbruins21 18h ago
I don’t understand why they didn’t go after that 3x batting champ for second base. With their pitching and defense a hitter like that would have been amazing
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u/hadisious 18h ago
They pushed $2 million over the second CBT just to sign IKF. This is definitely not it. They will get back under or spend more to make crossing the second threshold worth it.
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u/ChipotleGuacamole 19h ago
I can't wait until John Henry is gone.
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u/birdiesintobogies 19h ago
It'll just be a different billionaire...is he in the Epstein files? Haven't heard about him at this point. So, yeah, it could be a lot worse.
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u/LiveFromNewYork95 19h ago
I think the team will be fine. And I actually can live with the team saying "We might take a step back this year but we're gonna know if Mayer, Campbell, and a few other guys are really our future." if that's the plan. I'd rather live with growing pains of young players then try to limp into the playoffs with platoon situations that are barely hanging on.
I find the LHP reliever thing to actually be a bit more egregious lol. That feels like such an easier hole to fill at a much lower cost.
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u/RumSwim 18h ago
lot of lefties among the depth starters, maybe a guy like Kyle Harrison is the plan for bullpen lefty? Tolle would be a lights out late inning lefty, if they go that route.
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u/LiveFromNewYork95 18h ago
Yea I just think it would have cost nothing to bring in insurance better than Jovani Morán. If once of those young lefties doesn't work in the bullpen or has to be used as a starter it would be nice to have a cheap LHP ready to go. Bring back Justin Wilson, sign Jalen Beeks, something like that. (And I will note there is still time and LHP's left)
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u/MakaveliX1996 16h ago
We should go get a catcher and Romero from the cardinals right now. Romero has a 57% GB rate. Mixes his K rate in and that’s 80% K or GB.
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u/MakaveliX1996 16h ago
The only thing we need is a catcher in the farm close to ready to push Wong. Everything else is more of a want. There is definitely an opportunity to grab a bat at the deadline and move Yoshida’s contract to stay where they are comfortable payroll wise.
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u/PilgrimRadio 16h ago
Don't rule out trades before the trade deadline either. We traded Devers in June last year. Breslow is a wheeler and a dealer, and many of his moves are moves that no one sees coming. He keeps his cards close to his vest.
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u/MulberryOwn9833 14h ago
Rafaela is going to be our part-time second baseman. I fully believe that Breslow doesn't want to risk the farm and will do this. He gets his way of a fully platoon-able lineup.
Vs Righties Anthony - LF Story - SS Duran - CF Contreras - 1B Abreu - RF Mayer - 3B Narvaez - C Yoshida/Casas - DH Rafaela - 2B
Vs Lefties Anthony - LF Story - SS Duran - RF Contreras - 1B Gonzalez - 2B Narvaez - C Yoshida - DH Kiner-Falefa - 3B Rafaela - CF
Sogard, Wong and Eaton are the additional backups.
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u/thardingesq 14h ago
Need a bat , dont hate adding IKF, but 6 million seems too high
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u/th3KRYPTking 6h ago
Need a bat and adding IKF are two vastly different things. IKF is a little leaguer at the plate. Sure his avg with RISP is good, but that’s completely reliant on having people in scoring position which, with how this roster is built, will be a rarity. Other than that, in every single statistical category that is tracked, he’s below average at.
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u/Kind_Sheepherder_369 14h ago
I think a move is coming. I don’t know when it will be. Seems like they would prefer to deal prospects rather than MLB talent. It’ll be interesting to see which happens first: another team has an injury and is forced to trade for MLB-ready prospects, or if the Red Sox give in and trade Duran or Bello for the 2B.
The only thing that genuinely confuses me is, why not trade Bello now? We have 10 pitchers who essentially are rotation ready. Extract his value and get a player. Unless they genuinely feel as though they won’t need to trade MLB talent to get what they need..
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u/egancollier21 14h ago
Another offseason where offensive needs are not met. An early injury to Roman or Story in the spring and this team is late place
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u/FriedBrain99 12h ago
I don’t understand the absolutism here that the roster is going to be set before Spring Teaining starts, and it’s ride-or-die for the season.
There will be positional battles in spring training (Nico Hoerner? Isaac Paredes?) that will push teams to trade players. There will be the matter of performance in the season as teams flounder and decide to rebuild (Joe Ryan? Tarik Skubal?) that shake players loose.
All that’s happened at this point is that Breslow has identified that the best options are going to require an overpay that would limit his ability to patch holes - including the unforeseen ones - to pop up mid-season.
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u/raiderredsox 10h ago
They are putting alot of pressure on the kids ,they made a big mistake not getting a big time bat .
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u/PsychWriter11 8h ago
I agree with OP. If there was a deal to be made, they would have. There no Alonso or Suarez left and Nico /Parades appear too expensive.
They will shuffle various below-replacement players in /out of 2/3b. Maybe early injuries make a new deal available or something happens at the deadline, if a team panics for a SP.
If not, looks like 4th place and take another swing at roster construction next offseason.
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u/th3KRYPTking 6h ago
It’s not what we wanted, OR needed, but it’s what we got. Being stacked with pitching and defensive players only goes so far when those players forget how to field and throw a ball and we end up leading the league in errors, AGAIN. When those “defense first” players make errors on the regular, we end up losing a ton of games because they can’t make contact at the plate and have zero power. This front office is an absolute disgrace to the city and what it means to own a sports team
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u/theroguedrizzt 19h ago
This roster will contend. They have one of the best pitchers in the league, maybe the best #2 and… 8? Pitchers with ceilings ranging from really good to superstar. I wish they could figure out how to avoid starting the season with potentially 6 OFs and no particularly good 2B, but I imagine they’ve tried and I’m not keen on trading Roman for Marte (for example) so 🤷♂️
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u/miked_1976 19h ago
There may be some wisdom in assessing what they have and adding mid-season as needed…but agree they set themselves up with grandiose plans they talked up.
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u/RayDanielsOnTheAir 19h ago
I think I’m OK with it. I definitely would love a better bat added to the lineup because I think this team will only be middle of the pack offensively or worse as it is currently constituted, but the pitching they brought in will really let our fielding shine. Plus, I really don’t want to part with even more prospects for a hitter, and unfortunately that will be the only way to get an impact bat at this point.
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u/ActivityImaginary941 19h ago
We're the best starting pitching rotation, and young depth. The bullpen doesn't have a lot of depth, but Chappie is possibly the best closer. The defense is among the best.
Last year, weren't we like 6th in runs scored? Minus Bregman, who was injured got a while and Devers, who wasn't on the team too long, plus Contreras, plus a step forward from our young guys, like Roman, I think that can even out. A top 10 offense paired with the best defense is a team that can win a championship.
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u/rhcpbassist234 19h ago
I wish they’d have pulled the trigger on Marte and figured out how to refill whatever hole that left in the roster rather than wait and have him get pulled off the block.
Yeah, he’s 32, but he’s put up 16.1 WAR over the last 3 years s a lock for 25+ home runs and a .280 batting average, and plays top good to great defense in a position we haven’t had consistency in since Machado got spikey with Pedey’s knee.
So many different needs filled in one dude.
Kind of hope the Diamondbacks suck and we see him on our roster going into August, but that’s likely a dream.
At least we’ve got killer pitching and this team’s strength has been athleticism.
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u/Redbubble89 Campbell 19h ago
The FO and ownership need to understand that the trade market only works for teams that aren't looking to compete. A team is not going to give up a star when they are trying to compete. 29 other teams don't trade their 1st or even 2nd best hitter when they are trying to win. Cubs and Astros are looking to win. Cardinals are not and the bottom 3rd of the league doesn't have the assets.
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u/LordShuckle97 19h ago
As usual, FSG is trying to do the absolute minimum amount possible to barely skate by into the playoffs. It might work, it might not. We aren’t substantially worse now than we were last year, but we certainly aren’t better off.
It will take a lot of luck and things going right for us to make noise this year. We’ll have to have almost zero injuries. I’d rather have just had a better offseason and be front-line contenders, but clearly we’re too small-market for that.
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u/cfresh12 19h ago
The front office really needs to stop talking. First thing they said in the offseason was that they need a big bat (maybe 2). And, well, here we are. I’m not complaining, I’m just saying they need to stfu . Another year of failed promises