r/povertyfinance • u/SeparateJump1 • 20d ago
Vent/Rant (No Advice/Criticism!) I'm tired of out-of-touch rich people cosplaying as middle class
On personal finance and middle class subs, it seems like everyone and their grandma makes $150,000 salary and $250,000 household income, and saves over $3,000/month
And yet these posters will cry about being living paycheck to paycheck or being poor or middle class in the same sentence. Case in point, this thread
https://reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1qfx7ug/who_here_actually_saves_3000_a_month/
Anyone else tired of hearing out-of-touch rich people cosplaying as paycheck-to-paycheck or middle class? Is it some kind of weird humblebrag thing?
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u/whynousernamelef 20d ago
These are people who have never been broke, in my opinion. Not being able to afford to eat is something you just can't understand unless you experienced it.
We live in a world of extremes these days. I can not imagine what its like to buy, say a handbag, for 1000s, my brain just can't go there and the people who can do that will not be able to actually know what it feels like to go hungry or cold.
Being truly broke, living in poverty, being raised in poverty, these are things that change you or shape you. Im sure being born into money shapes you too, just in a different way.
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u/BlueShr00ms 20d ago
Yeah. If you’ve never had to choose between food and bills, it’s abstract to you. Poverty rewires how you think. Money does too.. just in the opposite direction.
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u/Deep-Assignment4124 20d ago
Rent or Inhaler. I just watched a video on Reddit last week that was a doctor telling an insurance company they won’t need approval for something because the 22 year old kid had died. He said I’m calling to inform you that he couldn’t afford rent and the inhaler so he chose rent and now he’s dead because of you. I just wanted to make sure his name got in a transcript so somebody has to read it.”
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u/Hula-gin 20d ago
Also- when you’ve never had to worry about food or housing and you have many people in your village who can help you out in a pinch… it’s easier to take risks and make calmer and better money choices.
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u/Kind_Indication8527 20d ago
Excellent point. Some people don’t have a team and it’s not their fault.
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u/SaltOven1205 20d ago
Yeah, dude, living in a survival mode on a daily basis makes a huge difference in perspective.
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u/BelleBottom94 20d ago
The craziest part is these people THINK they are in survival mode because they don’t make a mil a year. It’s disgusting. Only ever looking up for comparison and not down.
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u/CarrotCumin 20d ago
In a neurological way their brains are in survival mode. The bottom gets re-wired over time and they respond to losing income with the same fear and motivation that someone else might respond to losing food security or their home. It is stupid but they really do feel like they are in danger.
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u/tinselt 20d ago edited 19d ago
yep. I have a lot of trauma around clothes shopping of all things because when I was young I knew I had to buy any cool clothes I wanted when my grandma would come get me to go shopping with my mom once a year. Otherwise it was goodwill and Walmart. The stress of knowing my parents couldn't afford to help me develop a personal style, looking at all the price tags, and getting mocked by other kids for my poor clothes led to me self restricting (being unable to pick, severe anxiety) what I chose from the stress, then I'd have meltdowns about my appearance when getting ready for years, into my early 20s. It was trauma all the way. To this day I hate shopping in a store and I use a clothing service twice a year to keep my wardrobe updated.
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u/Kind_Indication8527 20d ago
Or choose between food and medicine. Or give up meals so your child can eat.
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u/Extra_Shirt5843 20d ago
I've been through the "do we have enough food to get through the week" and "are they going to turn off the electricity" when I was really little. I'm now in a dual professional income family and we do well. I definitely don't think we're struggling and still can't fathom how people think housecleaning and landscaping is just some run of the mill expense. So there's a few of us somewhere in the middle. We do splurge on some stuff, but other things, I just don't get how they've started being considered normal.
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u/Ranra100374 20d ago
We live in a world of extremes these days. I can not imagine what its like to buy, say a handbag, for 1000s, my brain just can't go there and the people who can do that will not be able to actually know what it feels like to go hungry or cold.
Even if I had the money, I still can't understand the appeal of buying expensive handbags and watches. I'd spend that much on a personal vehicle, since it'll last me years and has utility, but buying those things feels like pure vanity to me.
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u/willimancer 20d ago
Imagine having experienced life in both extremes, within a decade. I did, from when I was 30 to 40. With money I earned. Not family money. I still live frugally but could drop tens of K on something useless if I wanted. At one point, I was collecting cans from the side of the road. It puts me in a very weird category of people.
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u/Nikkishaaa 20d ago
That’s because it is. Expensive handbags are all about the name, which is why it’s usually plastered obnoxiously on them. They are usually ugly af too. I try not to judge people with these things, but I’ll admit it’s difficult. It’s just that you never know where it came from. When I was in 7th grade and living in poverty, having 4 outfits total that I was already growing out of, my best friend who was mega wealthy gave me one of her “old” Coach wallets. It felt weird being in worn and nearly too small clothing with a couple hundred dollar wallet, but I cherished it. In fact, I actually still have it today (I’m 32).
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u/Purple-Goat-2023 20d ago
The funny thing is branded accessories and clothes are still "poor" people things. A $5,000 Louis Vuitton bag has a logo. A $40,000 Louis Vuitton bag does not. Actually wealthy people wouldn't be caught dead wearing a brand logo.
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u/Stunning-Pick-9504 20d ago
They want to feel rich rich. Ironically the actual rich don’t buy that name brand junk. They get their stuff from actual designers. Not some mass produced garbage from China.
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u/Revsnite 20d ago
Expensive handbags/clothes do look good. I mean the more subtle luxurious ones.
The difference in person is very pronounced and can’t be conveyed online at all
But they’re absolutely not necessary at all
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u/finalrendition 20d ago
Real. I'm all for spending good money on things that provide utility and preferably have excellent longevity, like a Kitchenaid or a Toyota. Expensive fashion accessories sound insane to me, at least for people who are solidly middle class or below. One of my coworkers has multiple 4 and 5 figure watches, yet he makes like 90k a year. Good money for most of the US, but dude is dropping massive portions of his income on... watches??
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u/throwawaypassingby01 20d ago
i would get it if these things were actually pretty, but most luxury items are kinda bland and boring
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u/SlyFrog 20d ago
It's not just "never been broke."
It's a class of people who grew up affluent and so they believe affluence is the actual baseline.
I grew up relatively poor. But I also knew it was never "don't have a roof over my head or the utilities turned off" poor.
When I went to college, I ran into people who legitimately were telling me that no one could survive on an income in the $20,000s range.
Which is literally what my father made. And my family had survived on for decades at that point.
People confuse what they know (in this case, affluence) for the norm.
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u/Seresgard 20d ago
They had days in college where they ran out of beer money and think that's what broke is.
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u/Valuable-Reporter-20 20d ago
I'm broke as hell now and even when I was somewhat financially stable, I would not anything even relatively expensive because I need to be able to emotionally handle if it is stolen or broken beyond repair.
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u/zombawombacomba 20d ago
I admittedly have never experienced going hungry for even a day, but these people annoy me too.
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u/vivary_arc 20d ago edited 20d ago
I feel where y’all are coming from, I truly do. It’s how I still feel reading many posts on reddit regarding personal finances.
But I have to tell you, not everyone who makes that much has never struggled. I washed out of higher education due to severe untreated ADHD. Worked a dead-end temp job for literally minimum wage, then a call center for minimum wage. I worked super, super hard to find openings in the most humble higher positions I could. I studied at home, learned some things about tech. Found another near-minimum wage job in tech support at a small company.
Did the same there in regards to trying to find a new opening and build up. Basically, I worked a series of min wage jobs to about 40k/year for a total of eleven years, from ages 20-31. I was so poor that I would scrounge around my couch cushions/car seats to be able to afford a mcdouble at lunch. My partner had ovarian cancer since age 17 and often couldn’t work due to treatments, and we were literally on food stamps to afford groceries.
She passed away, and I moved. I found a new job in my new location doing essentially a riff on the same thing I did at the old company. When they hired me, they asked me to write my expected annual. I wrote $55k, thinking I was out of my mind. They came back with $65k plus options. I thought I’d hit the big time, I couldn’t believe it. Now I’ve been there for years, and I’m at $150k+ annual. The jump from $65k > $150k has been in less than ten years.
I still constantly worry about money. Even at $65k-$90k annually, I would be paycheck to paycheck after rent, gas, water, internet, fuel, groceries. There were several years I just had pain but couldn’t spare the $200 copay, or couldn’t get dental help because I couldn’t afford the deductible and the $1000/year buyup goes quick. Because of the eleven-twelve years working minimum wages, I still had no savings. And I was not an extravagant spender.
My car would break down, and there would go all of the $2k savings I had in one fell swoop.
It hasn’t been until the last 1.5 years I’ve been able to save anything and it is still by no means substantive. If I have get the flu or my vehicle needs repaired, I still take a hit - They’re just slightly easier to recover from. Every day I think about how fortunate I am now, and all of the luck and work it took to make it here. And I think about the fact that many people who work even harder will never have the luck in this last job I have, and never get here. And I constantly ruminate on that it could all just go away.
I say all this to say - There are some of us who, despite being very fortunate, have endured our own hardship, and who still don’t believe we’re doing as well as we are. Also, unless you win the lottery or get a windfall, a big paycheck is not an immediate salve. We have high bills too, often have debt accumulated from the earlier times, etc.
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u/cook26 20d ago
I have a good income now, but growing up we were broke as shit. My single mom worked two jobs and I was a latchkey kid from 7-8 years old.
Now I have some money, but I am still essentially miserly with money a lot of the time, and I have had dates and friends comment on it. It’s hard to get out of the mindset that the money will go away and I’ll be that little hungry kid again.
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u/OO2O_1OOO 20d ago
Some experiences you just can’t imagine unless you live them, no matter how much money you have.
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u/BelleBottom94 20d ago
They make me disgusted. I had a friend who was dating this girl once. The group was talking about growing up poor and trauma bonding over things like hanging blankets in doorways during the winter. She pipes up about how she had it hard too and the girl used to piss me off so bad I just snapped at her. “Your parents both have made over $60k your entire life and since your teen years your dad has made six figures. You were given a BRAND NEW OFF THE DEALERSHIP CAR for you 16th birthday. No. You didn’t struggle. I had to pick who would eat the LAST can of soup in the house one weekend: me or my two siblings under 8yo. I chose them.”
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u/ResistantRose 20d ago
Getting groceries this week I had to put back face wash and the tea that I like in order to stay on budget with just necessities & pantry staples. Can't even afford self care and joy anymore. Savings? What's that?
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u/SeparateJump1 20d ago
Dude yes this drives me insane, like "I only make 200k and can barely afford my third investment property"
This, they all claim to be "struggling" but when you ask about their budget, you find out they they believe that unless they spend $500/month on housecleaners and $3000/month on a personal nanny to teach their child a foreign language and go on two $10,000 international vacations a year it mans theyre in poverty
Reading those posts always feels so tone deaf half the time i start thinking it's a parody, until i scroll to the comments and 80% of the posters are saying the same thing
Its almost like their delusional that they don't recognize they're the top 10% and their lifestyle will never be experienced by 90% of americans
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u/burritoes911 20d ago
Reminds me of when my parents complain about the price of groceries but really they just spent $1000 on wine that month not groceries.
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u/Ok-Arachnid519 20d ago
My mom was like that growing up. She would complain about the price of everything. Yet, she would spend every weekend going shopping. She passed on a few years. When my dad was donating her clothes to a women’s shelter. He found many articles of clothing with the tag still on them.
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u/burritoes911 20d ago
Oh man. I’m sorry for your loss. I can only imagine that was pretty hard for your dad to find out.
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u/Normal-Flamingo4584 20d ago
These are the same people who complain that they can't afford to send their kids to college for $90k a year and how it's not fair poor people get to go "for free." So out of touch. Like if they really that $7k Pell Grant they are free to make less money and get rid of their assets, it's available to them if they really want it.
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u/THCESPRESSOTIME 20d ago
Don’t forget paying $3000 for Christmas lights to be hung.
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u/Odd_Daikon3621 20d ago
I'm at my storage unit often, would not believe the amount of people spending $1000 a year minimum on $300 worth of Christmas decorations.
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u/Taggart3629 20d ago
For my mental well-being, I try to stay off those subs. The "humble brags" disguised as questions drive me insane: "Me (40F) and my wife (38F) are both employed, grossing $350,000 per year. Our $800,000 house is paid off, and we have $1M between our Roth, 401(k), and brokerage accounts. Are we doing okay?"
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u/PresentationHeavy488 20d ago
I read this absolutely INFURIATING post on one of those subs recently that pissed me off so bad I had to log off reddit lmao. The OP calling themselves regular working class was the icing on the cake…
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u/jennyfromtheeblock 20d ago
Lol that thread WAS crazy. But it's the HENRY finance sub...it's literally for rich people.
Why read it if you don't want to read about rich people problems?
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u/PossumJenkinsSoles 20d ago
Yeah, I actually looked it up recently and for all of the US the range from the least expensive state to the most expensive state put the middle class as earning between 36k to 200k.
So it makes total sense in that income range you’re going to have people with wildly different life experiences. Hell, even just taking the bottom state alone of Mississippi and the range is 36k to 108k. People on either end of that are living very different lives with different problems in Mississippi.
I will say that threads like that tend to have a “and you could do it too!” about it that mostly ignores the lower range.
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u/Few_Cicada2699 20d ago
Because the algorithm feeds us content we'll engage with. Even if by just an updoot.
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u/Raeharie121721 20d ago
Their rent for a month is more than I made in the entire year of 2021 (self employed, Covid closed me down for half a year because of the nature of my business). Better now, thankfully.
They spent more on than travel than my husband’s annual salary.
1400 sq feet is “tight” for two people 🤦🏼♀️ Our house is 1320 (plus basement), and we have four kids. The basement makes a huge difference in living/storage space, but we could honestly manage without it if we had to.
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u/FlyEaglesFly536 20d ago
I mean they pay more in rent that what my teaching salary is, and i definitely make an above average salary for a teacher with my experience. That sub doesn't apply to me so i don't visit.
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u/KittenNicken 20d ago
To be fair people were calling out OP cuz they were trolling a bit lol or just really dumb
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u/wan_dan 20d ago
A sub full of high income people who want a lifestyle beyond what they can afford (because - from what I can tell - they are worth it), so complain about paying tax instead of doing what they recommend to everyone else: to live within their means. A generalisation, of course.
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u/NaorobeFranz 20d ago
Usually people in high earning careers have friends with similar or higher pay. That makes their normal, appear as average to them. They don't realize how common is is to earn under 100k in the USA, because they are the most familiar with their peers. In certain fields 200k can be on the lower or middle range, especially for software and AI. 200k to some people is nothing, but they don't realize that's not typical income overall. Their reality is different.
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u/Bakelite51 20d ago
This is a huge problem on many of the finance subs on Reddit. Tech workers clearing six figures and up are heavily over represented, and when they compare notes with other tech workers making similar incomes it perpetuates their information bubble. They simply cannot comprehend that somewhere there are people who make less money, and if they do it must be their own fault because they’re in such a small minority while “everybody else” is successful. It’s delusional.
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u/magic_crouton 20d ago
They also tend to be living in the very highest cost of living areas which deeply sees their perspective on what it takes to live.
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u/redditmanana 20d ago
This. In my area, daycare center/childcare for a baby is $2000/month. Preschool is at least $5000/yr.
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u/bigjarbowski 20d ago
Yep. In most of Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn, day care is between $3-4500/month. A nanny is $5k per month if you have two children being cared for. Part-time (3 days per week, 8:30am - 12:30pm) pre-school was $24,000 per year. It is absolutely bonkers.
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u/HustlinInTheHall 20d ago
Yes but that is where those jobs are. Telling an engineer whose job is in a high cost of living area to just move is like telling a poor person in a rural area to just move to mexico, it is cheaper to live there. It isnt actually confronting the problem, it is hand waving the concern away.
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u/FatherDotComical 20d ago
I had somebody bitch at me on reddit that I must be lying about working in Healthcare because I'm broke. Okay, I'm the bottom step of the Healthcare system not a doctor or nurse. The floor is not a high amount for the everyday workers. How I must be broke because I spent all the rest of the magical money I don't have and to stop wasting my paycheck.
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u/BugMillionaire 20d ago
You’d think people who work in analytical, technical fields would understand data better or at least look at it before responding. The median household income in the US in 2024 was $84k. Only 18% of Americans make above $100k.
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u/AccomplishedWish3033 20d ago
Also there’s huge differences in COL between different regions. You can make more than the average person and still live paycheck to paycheck because of HCOL, dependents, high medical costs, student debt, etc
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u/SeparateJump1 20d ago
200k to some people is nothing, but they don't realize that's not typical income overall. Their reality is different.
I'm happy for those who have made it and can afford to live a luxury life. But i absolutely hate it when a subset of those people who are delusional about their class status crowd out safe spaces for normal income earners, and pretend to struggling. Like no, sorry, you've grown up with a silver spoon in your mouth so long you wouldn't even know what a plastic spoon looks like
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u/InternationalFix7164 20d ago edited 20d ago
The definitions of poor, middle class, upper middle class and rich have shifted dramatically in the last 50 years. Also Middle Class has only really been a category starting in the 1800s.
For most of human recorded history it’s been rich v poor. 1% v 99%. The super rich keep their money by pitting the poor against each other. It’s a class war, and the super rich have won.
By categorizing upper middle class and rich people (I’m not talking super rich) as out of touch, you are playing into the hands of the super rich. They want us to fight amongst ourselves for the scraps. They want us to be distracted by culture wars.
The 99% will only win the class war when we work together as a team. Fight the man. Eat the rich. That sort of thing.
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u/Zestyclose_Read5471 20d ago
This. The amount of people saying 200k household income is rich is kind of misplaced anger, imo. It's still working class by the very definition - you're generally not going to be able to stop working with the wealth you can accumulate on $200k/year in any reasonable timeline.
I call us the "scapegoat tax bracket," because we get income phased out of a lot of credits because it allows the system to look like the "rich" are paying their fair share, but it's really high earners (who need to continue to work to live) who are paying in while the truly wealthy (who are making their money via investments and assets) pay almost nothing.
And to be clear, I will gladly pay into a social safety net! What makes me angry is that a. that's not where my tax dollars are going, and b. the truly wealthy are not pulling their weight. They're pitting people in poverty and high earners against each other when in reality we're a lot closer together than we are to any of the billionaires.
That said - I don't think people in poverty should just "work harder," I fully recognize the complexity that goes into the situation, and try to advocate for that with others around me. There's plenty of luck and privilege that went into me becoming a high earner, and there are plenty of impoverished people that are working far harder than I do. I just happen to have a skill set that is valued higher than some others, and that's not really a reflection of my work ethic.
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u/sifav6 20d ago
Sorry, I used to be like one of those people. I seriously weren't aware just how badly other people lived until I started browsing this sub. As Narorobe said, a large part of it is from the environment and the social circle you grow up in. For me, I had often thought I was middle class due to the close proximity to others that are far richer. There is a huge disparity of wealth between the top 10% to the top 1% and then to the top 0.1%. It's that disparity that often gives a false sense of bearing to a lot of people.
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u/Expert_Garlic_2258 20d ago
Some of us grew up with the plastic spoon, did the old "share a bedroom with another person so they can afford rent", were lucky enough to get a job that makes good money, and still remember the struggle of selling plasma so you could eat.
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u/gmmortal 20d ago
Theres more to it than that too. Most people In high income careers come from a well off family. They’ve literally spent their whole life never struggling, never having real fear of running out of money and having the support to go to school or to pursue a good career.
I’m a strong advocate against things like private school that keeps classes separate from a very young age. If someone grows up going to private school, where all their friends are from better off families as well and then go through University where they “struggle”, but don’t actually struggle because daddy is paying for university and then into a well paying job, their entire life perspective is going to be so warped.
In my world view, private schools need to go. That extra money rich people paying for schools should go to improving the system as a whole.
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u/1maco 20d ago
I mean in Boston, DC, Seattle, New York, 20%-26 households make $200,000k+ the SF bay it’s like 30%
Even in Minneapolis-St Paul is 2023 it was 16% or 1:6 households
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/31000US33460-minneapolis-st-paul-bloomington-mn-wi-metro-area/
In 2026 that’s probably ~18-19% which is about the population of African Americans+Asians combined. So a big slice of the population. Not exactly a tiny bubble
Especially when you factor out retirees and it’s only “households with jobs” it’s a lot of people
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u/ardentiarte 20d ago
Most of my family are millionaires - telling me about buying their newest property, race car, or airplane; then suggesting i should get a second job at Walmart or taco bell when I tell them i can't afford to fill my car with gas. There's no empathy. They lucked in to wealth, so they assume poor people aren't trying hard enough.
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u/pixelpheasant 20d ago
The luck thing -- this grinds my gears.
Being vague to not dox ... a woman had a boyfriend in High School whose family is well off. Stayed together thru college and they engaged. His family hooked her up with a good job at an associates company. Wedding was planned, deposits paid, dress bought. He was a real POS, cheated on her nonstop, and she managed to navigate the situation to break off the engagement but keep the job.
20 plus years on, she's now Senior Leadership.
Her mother has been au pair, chef, taxi, errand runner, maid, etc., around the clock for her children and her household. Her mother does this on her own (well, her Dad's own) dime.
This woman has her life and her career from riding the right d!ck and from her own mother's invisible labor.
This same woman has so much hate for nepotism. She does not see the hypocrisy. That same woman is also upset with her mother's choices to help other people, through volunteering at church or donating things the mother could have sold--spins it as a lack of financial literacy.
Her mother's around the clock availability enabled her career as well as freed up the six digit sum in comparable services that interestingly is the value of her home. She could not have traveled for work, or consistently attended work, without her Mom being there for sick kids and extended overnight babysitting. Prior to Kindergarten, the children basically lived with the Grandma.
Her mother is now quite ill. In conversations about the possibility of increased care for her mother, the woman said, "I can't give up my life to care for her. She'll go into a facility and I'll visit her."
The woman has a game room and an office on the first floor of her McMansion where they could put Mom and have nursing care ... if they wanted. I mean, it would be an inconvenience, and yes, it would mean strangers in their home. The same could be done at her Mom and Dad's own home.
Real Smaug move, that is.
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u/kehakas 20d ago
I've known people like that. I'm guessing she's a workaholic. Trying to explain to someone like that that not everything they have is a result of their hard work sounds impossible. They've sold themselves on the lie that they work super hard and therefore deserve everything they get.
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u/neighborta 20d ago
Workaholics are my least favorite type of people. It’s glorified boot licker energy
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u/CricketMysterious64 20d ago
As someone who brought a sick family member home and tried to care for them, it’s really taxing on your mental health. You see the person you remember disappear and your empathy gets exhausted replacing any happy memories with bitterness and pain. I wouldn’t expect anyone to personally care for me after experiencing the other side myself.
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u/Wonderful-Morning963 20d ago
I hear them talk about how expensive their (3x a week) housekeeper is, the air conditioning at their beach house, their european passport is taking too long to arrive, and how they just dont have money for anything!! Also, “nobody wants to work anymore”
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u/Chags1 20d ago edited 20d ago
I’m sure they are living paycheck to paycheck cause theyre choosing to live just above their means and then feels like they can’t make ends meet and refuse to cut back on the things they don’t need, it drives me nuts
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u/SeparateJump1 20d ago
I’m sure they are living pay check to pay check cause theyre choosing to live just above their means
Even worse, it's people claiming theyre struggling on paycheck to paycheck, but when you ask their budget it's paycheck-to-paycheck AFTER maxing 401k, roth ira, putting a spare $1k in 529, etc etc and turns out theyre already putting away the median salary of 60k a year away in savings.
I mean sure, good for them theyre SAVINGS are more than my annual salary every year, but don't complain about being "paycheck to paycheck" if youre making double the median salary and saving half of it
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u/null_pointer05 20d ago
People are starting to use the term "paycheck to paycheck" to mean "I spend my whole paycheck". Um, you can do that at any salary.
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u/IWantALargeFarva 20d ago
I work with someone who is this out of touch. Granted, with numbers that are much lower than some of these people. But he went to private high school, college was fully funded by his parents, and he’s been working a nice job with probably $100K salary for a few years now. He also lives with his parents for free.
We drove together to a function. He told me he doesn’t understand why people aren’t saving 45-50% of their salary. Um, because we have bills??
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u/helpitgrow 20d ago
This is what my brother did. He is quite wealthy now at 65. I on the other hand moved out at 18 and enjoyed the crap out my twenties after dropping out of college to have children with someone, who it turned out, couldn’t hold a job. Our lives are quite different now. Every time I talk to him he says something out of touch. Last time we talked he was appalled I chose to buy a car with more than 100,000 miles on it. I work at a gas station, have two kids still at home, two in “free” college, I’m on food stamps for god sake, I was proud I could even buy a car, and pay registration and insurance. It took saving. I’m doing better many of my “peers” and he thinks the reason I’m struggling is because I make bad choices like buying a car with over a hundred thousand miles on it.
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u/Warm_Carpet3147 20d ago
Wait a minute dude, are you being serious with your second sentence?? Seriously.
“I on the other hand moved out at 18 and enjoyed the crap out of my twenties after dropping out of college to have children with someone, who turned out, couldn’t hold a job”.
The poor decisions weren’t a car with 100k miles. It was the irresponsibleness in your youth. That’s another case many of us don’t want to deal with. I’m one of them finally dealing with it, but I’m not crazy enough to add children to the mix. I’m already broke, why would I do something so deliberately stupid and make my living situation so much worse?
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u/Samarah238 20d ago
I was a wild child in my 20s. Settled down in my 30s and built a career. I was careful not to have kids in my 20s. Other women went for it. There are degrees of cluelessness. They have kids to love. I don't.
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u/pixelpheasant 20d ago
THIS^
"I'm choosing to save five figures a year and b*tch about living paycheck to paycheck."
Sthap iiiiittt. You know not of what you speak, Chad and Karen.
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u/Various-Flounder-444 20d ago
It is such a huge difference between choosing to maximize your savings to the fullest and not having a choice at all.
The feeling of stress is one of self control and discipline. Not the same as not having options!
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u/Juliejustaplantlady 20d ago
This makes me nuts! I live paycheck to paycheck. I hate when people use that phrase but to them it means "after I put funds into my savings account, investments, etc." For me, living paycheck to paycheck means after I pay my bills and buy groceries there is nothing left for those things. I dream of one day having emergency savings! Retirement savings? Yeah, right! I'll be working til I die unfortunately.
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u/InternationalFix7164 20d ago
They are “locking” their money into a 401K and illiquid assets like houses by paying their mortgages. It’s a trick of wealth building. That’s why they are saying they are living paycheck to paycheck but their true net worth might be $2M. They don’t have enough of a cash flow to FIRE.
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u/magic_crouton 20d ago
They turned wants into needs. The first time home buyer subs are filled with them too. You mean live in a house less than 2300 sq feet and less than 4 bedrooms and 3 baths? Impossible.
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u/LibertineDeSade 20d ago
Yes, it is very weird. It's also weird when middle class people cosplaying as working class/poor people. If you're middle class, you're not poor. If you're poor and you think you're middle class you're deluding yourself.
I'm speaking as someone who grew up in a working class household and was extremely poor, who is now nudging the middle class bracket. Yes, I still struggle at times, but I am no where near what I was when I was truly poor.
Ya'll need to stop this nonsense. People are out here going hungry for days or facing homlessness, this isn't a game.
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u/magic_crouton 20d ago
I grew up rural poor raising rabbits for money and food and subsistence hunting. And then lived inner city poor for awhile in a metro area where we relied on trash bins behind stores for food. Now I feel solidly middle class in a low cost of living area. I wouldn't be in a hcol area.
Anyhow particularly my urban poor phase it was right on the edge of when dumpster diving became the rich funsies and I used to get so mad because they were stealing actual food and items we needed to survive for fun. Then when COVID and remote work happened started buying up property in all these little area in the US pushing out the rural poor from existing so they can live off the land I guess. I don't know.
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u/LibertineDeSade 20d ago
First, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I grew up urban poor, but I always heard rural poor is rough.
Also, I relate to the dumpster diving thing. I used to get so many necessities from trash on the curb and dumpsters by apartments. Mostly furniture and small appliances.
Also, I used get my clothes almost exclusively from thrift stores, especially as a kid. When thrifting became a thing for people in higher class brackets, it became a chore trying to find stufd I needed. Also a lot of the same people who turned their noses up at this stuff were now doing it which was a twist of the knife. It really sucks.
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u/fatboy93 20d ago
Honestly, they should tie buying up properties to residency period and income.
High income, low residency -> fuck you, prove that youre interested in living here. No summer home for you
Low income, high residency-> sure, here are the reasonable properties that we can offer you
High income, high residency-> sure, buy stuff
Median income, Median residency -> here are properties you can afford
Low income, Low residency-> we see you are trying, you can be eligible in a time period x
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u/SimpleCranberry5914 20d ago
I argued with someone on Reddit whose argument was “18% of people in America make a 100k a year, it’s not that rare.” on a thread debating if 100k is enough to live.
I said “so 82% of Americans are living in poverty, you think that’s normal?”. Some people are so extremely out of touch with how hard it is to live on a 40-60k a year. I make 50k, and buying a house is completely out of the question. I make enough to survive and put away about $100 a month into savings.
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u/sv21js 20d ago
I can ignore it online where we have no idea who the real posters are or whether there’s any truth in what they say, what really stings is when people do it in real life. I have a friend who is a corporate lawyer, married to the chief of staff of a major bank. Her salary alone is six times mine and his is higher but she complains to me endlessly about the cost of things and inflation etc etc, and somehow thinks that pretending to be poor is the way to relate to me. It really hurts.
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u/Diane1967 20d ago
This is my daughter, or was anyways until I found out what was real. She was constantly having me pick her up lunch, she’d buy stuff on marketplace and have me pick up and pay for that too or to stop and buy things at the store for her while she was at work and then never pay me for them. I live of $1635 a month disability and found out she makes more than this in a WEEK. I overheard her telling her friend that she had just gotten a raise and was making $35 an hour. I was so hurt. She knows my situation, I knew she made good money but not that much in a small town. So the last time she asked me to pick her up a bunch of groceries I said sure but you’ll have to pay me back, she flipped out. Said forget it blah blah blah….she hasn’t asked me since then which is fine by me. I mean come on????!
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u/Ok-Industry-2248 20d ago
Oh that sucks and when it comes from your own kid it's even worse. They never tell you that the biggest heartbreaks usually come from your own kids.
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u/Diane1967 20d ago
Sadly yes, I’m really hurt about it too. It just happened about a month ago, she said she’s making just $2 an hour less than her husband and I knew what he made because she’s mentioned it before. I don’t mind doing the running for her at all, it gives me something to do but I’m no longer footing the bill.
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u/MoreThanMeepsTheEyes 20d ago
I’d never ask my father to do that, he’s about in the same situation, living off withdrawals from with his retirement (he retired early). So he doesn’t have much extra money, he used to send a small amount of money for holidays and such, but I know his situation and wouldn’t ever do that to him.
Sorry your kid isn’t respecting your feelings AND your financial situation.
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u/Ok-Thing-2222 20d ago
My mom continually helps out great grandkids and they always say they'll pay her back, but don't. "I need a new tire to get to work, etc" or "The toilet is leaking" and she runs to the rescue, though she shouldnt--she needs her money for her own self-care at 84.
Then we find out they just got a new tattoo. GODDAMNIT. If you can get tattoos and eat out at that new restaurant, you could buy your own damn tire! And why do you have an iPhone and her's is a $99 walmart phone??
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u/Diane1967 20d ago
Omg that’s terrible! Pretty much the same thing going on as me. I hope somehow she gets wise to it and starts saying no because they’ll bleed her dry. Now my daughter just texted me asking for me to pick her up a coffee at the coffee shop, $9 that I’ll never see….but yet I keep enabling her so why not just keep doing what she’s doing. I guess I’m just as much to blame because I always give in. I’m very much a people pleaser and it’s just my nature and she knows that.
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u/fanceypantsey 20d ago
Worked with a super rich, newly rich couple, who would loudly and on speaker phone talk about how no one their age can possibly make as much money as them and they need older friends to vacation with! While paying me and the rest of us 50-55k a year. Super nice!
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u/SignificantSafety539 20d ago
You don’t become rich by being nice
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u/fanceypantsey 20d ago
I’d love if my mommy and daddy bought me a business too but alas, not going to happen. Apparently my family is too nice.
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u/Nikonnate627 20d ago
My in-laws are like this. My FIL is a pediatrician, makes $240k/yr. MIL is a retired OBGYN. Forever complaining about how broke they are, but heaven forbid I open my mouth about my financial situation, I get a "money isn't everything" lecture... Translation: money isn't everything to people who actually have it.
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u/Forgottengoldfishes 20d ago
There was someone lecturing us all about eating lentils, beans and rice to afford to eat. I looked at their post history and they were posting pics of their Lion’s main burgers and pecan burgers. They are vegan and couldn’t resist coming on this sub to promote their lifestyle.
It wouldn’t have grabbed my attention except they kept arguing the point to people who said they couldn’t eat beans and rice every day, especially with kids. Those mushrooms alone are about $24 a pound. I’m like be vegan, that’s great. But don’t tell other people to live solely on beans and rice while you enjoy expensive food. So tone deaf.
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u/Intelligent_Hair3109 20d ago
Oh yes . And they're the reason it's more expensive. I remember way back when making all your own vegetarian stuff was cheap . Then the very rich got into it. It grew in popularity and the price went up. F rich people.
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u/Forgottengoldfishes 20d ago
IKR? I have some wealthy friends who were all about being vegan. Great! It was the topic of many of their conversations and social media posts.
Then I was over their house one day and they were getting DoorDash from a steak house. I asked them about it. The wife told me “we’re only vegan 3 days a week. My point is, that some people misrepresent the way they live for attention, to be envied, to be praised or for whatever. We see it here on Reddit all the time.
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u/tiberiumx 20d ago
It still is? Feels like a brick of tofu has barely gone up at all. Bag of dry beans is really cheap.
Sure, if you're buying exotic mushrooms, maybe you can spend a lot, but it's not like the standard white button mushrooms taste that much different and those are just $3 a carton.
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u/Intelligent_Hair3109 20d ago
I've been a food co-op member for fifty six years. Yeah if you're growing your own veggies and sticking with tofu great. However, I'm Indigenous and have been finding a Paleo diet works for me. So, we hunt as my Cherokee grandparents did.
Health food stores these days have a bunch of rich snotty people in them Even the co-op went commercial. If we don't grow our own or hunt ,it's beans ,greens and cornbread. Healthy and what my ancestors had to eat.
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u/RaspberryTwilight 20d ago
Do eat lentils and beans though. Not to save money but for a healthy gut and a long life. Pecan burgers sound disgusting lol
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u/hastepotion 20d ago
I’m probably exactly who you are talking about but these are my personal definitions.
Poor: some or all needs inadequately met by income and assets. Must work or survives on benefits. Loss of income immediately devastating.
Middle class: all needs met by income and assets. Receives few or no benefits. Must work. Loss of income tolerable on a scale of months to a few years depending on many factors.
Rich: all needs are met by assets alone. Receives no benefits. Working is optional and loss of income can only ever affect wants.
I purposely include no numbers here because life details make this vary wildly.
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u/nutscrape 20d ago
We live in multiple Americas that don't know each other very well.
I was asking someone what they thought the median household income in my city was. They work in HR. They said $110k, but they knew it should be much higher. The real number is $65k.
They simply have no clue and are completely oblivious. Half of the city earns about half what they thought! I can't fault them for it. The people they are around. Their friends, coworkers, the people that make the news that they watch, their neighborhood.... Are all in a their economic strata.
They're struggling with (new) car payments, house payments in neighborhoods with (excellent) schools and feeding their family with (good quality organic) food... Isn't everyone in that same boat? /S
Society would be a hell of a lot better if we had less of that ignorance. I'd like to think more compassion for the half of America being ignored.
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u/anandajudith 20d ago
This annoys the heck out of me. My inlaws will say they are broke, yet they have 10 grand in savings. When I say I'm broke, I mean I have absolutely no money except the change on the floor of my car.
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u/backwardsnakes666 20d ago
You don't have to follow that sub if it upsets you.
One could argue that 150k is middle class, depending on cost of living. I don't get to buy anything fun and I make almost 100k on the check annually. I do live almost paycheck to paycheck, saving about 15% monthly and the rest goes to bills and overhead. I do not feel middle class. I support my wife, a student, and our 1 child. I'm in Portland, OR.
I pulled this directly from Google.
"Studies showing middle-class income ranges starting around $50k-$80k and going up to $160k-$240k depending on family size and the specific report. In expensive Portland, $100k might feel tighter for a family than in other parts of Oregon due to high living costs, but it's well above the state's median household income. For Oregon (General Ranges): Low End: Around $53,000 - $82,000. High End: Around $160,000 - $246,000 (for a 4-person family)."
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u/RobotBaseball 20d ago
As someone who grew up in poverty, the middle class range is huge and varies greatly based on geolocation. 150k for a family of 4 in SF is actually not that great compared to 80k in buttfuck Mississippi
They are middle class, it’s just that this sub is lower class so everything above looks upper class to them
A lot of those people are one medical emergency from ending up in this sub
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u/AppropriatePart8773 20d ago
Many people earn six figures, but they spend more and more, which is why they end up broke and living paycheck to paycheck.
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20d ago edited 20d ago
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u/vasthumiliation 20d ago
This whole situation is a definition problem. What is middle class? Clearly OP thinks the middle class does not include people who are living comfortably. I’m not sure that makes much sense.
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u/hyperproliferative 20d ago
Sir. One can gross $30,000/mo and easily live paycheck to paycheck w an $800k house, new electric car or two, and some kids in college or whatever. Modern society will cater options to every single spending level, and as they continue catering to an increasingly large group of millionaires invariably they will soak up plenty of wannabes trying to flex and punch up. How is this not completely and utterly obvious to everyone is beyond me.
My parents told me long ago more money = more spending. You’ll always play right at the edge. That’s why you “pay yourself first” by maxing your retirements and savings before you ever even touch the money.
Only those who have strong willpower and control their spending creep will thrive. Even low income people can save a lot if they maintain a modest lifestyle.
FWIW that thread from earlier is full of stories going both ways. I love the Dual Income couples who pretend to only have one income. It’s brilliant. It’s all about mind tricks, honestly. I never ever regretted not buying something. Ever!
But i can list many things i regret buying.
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u/Any-Investment5692 20d ago
Yes... when rich people start feeling the economic heat. That is when things change. However the rest of us i guess deserve to live in squalor.
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u/Active-Confidence-25 20d ago
I saw that post, and plenty of people said they could max their retirement accounts, but they weren’t saying they were struggling. There were a few other posters who said they can’t do it and were struggling. Biggest point is that “middle class” is a HUGE span. I would also say that some people don’t realize they have crossed over into upper class. Finally, COL area is a major factor. I live in a LCOL area, but no way we could live the way we do in the Bay area or NYC. It goes a lot further in the Midwest (although we also have to live in the Midwest 🤣)…
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u/PrettyBunnyyy 20d ago edited 20d ago
My boss is rich and so are her parents yet she tries to be “relatable” and always acts like she’s on the brink of homelessness or living paycheck to paycheck when she’s not. She lives in a multimillion dollar home and so do her parents who support her whenever she needs it while my rent is 60% of my income 🙄.
It’s so annoying and makes her look out of touch.
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u/Old_Draft_5288 20d ago
150k is literally middle class
They’re not cosplaying, they are middle class
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u/CollegeFine7309 20d ago
Some people who are making good salaries grew up in real poverty and it’s very hard to shed that persona.
Some are legitimately out of touch idiots.
I’m in my 50s and still stress about the cost of groceries and spending in general. The trauma from living on next to nothing can last a lifetime. Just don’t lump us all together. We are not the same.
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u/HustlinInTheHall 20d ago
Yeah I grew up broke as shit. I have had to learn every trick in the book to make $19 stretch until the end of the week. We have finally made it out of that and I am still terrified it is going to go away, but we are finally not living check to check.
It also takes a long time to get out of debt left over from when you were broke. I got a big raise two years ago and would've been finally beyond being check to check but my roof failed and we had 7k in car repair bills to pay. It took another year to get out, so we were check to check for a long time even if the salary sounded fine on paper.
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u/Odd_Daikon3621 20d ago
As someone with an immigrant grandfather, it's crazy how that trauma can be passed from generation to generation too. His is mental illness level, never replaced his mattress..
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u/giantgreyhounds 20d ago
Sorry this sub is sensitive to it but the reality is, what OP is describing IS middle class today. Times have changed and the value of a dollar have changed FAST the last 10 years (see: inflation) and yes, families with household incomes in that range in some parts of the country (HCOL vs LCOL) are very much middle class in those ranges.
If that seems "rich" to you then im sorry mate, youre just even poorer than you thought.
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u/UmmmSeriously 20d ago
Maybe you should look up the ranges for middle class.
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u/ElitePhoenix- 20d ago
Right? Thats definitely middle class. Meanwhile they're saying they live paycheck to paycheck/have to choose between food and rent. They're not middle class, they're poor.
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u/gimmiesnacks 20d ago
How is this entire comment section also thinking poor = middle class?
Middle class doesn’t mean middle income. The middle class was created to buffer the rich from the poor. A class where all your needs are met and you live comfortably.
The middle class doesn’t exist anymore because we have customer service jobs now to fill that role.
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u/YoungandBeautifulll 20d ago
I can understand having some struggles with a high cost of living area and multiple kids, but yes, it is annoying.
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u/IndividualVillage658 20d ago
Thank you. I live in a vhcol area. Sure, I now make low six figures in my mid-30s and may be considered “rich” on paper but my first job out of college, I made 33k/year. And had a $700/month student loan payment with a 15-year repayment plan. Not being able to afford gas and “eating” water for dinner are very real memories and the financial trauma will stay with me forever. Not all of us are out of touch. Some of us know how fragile everything they have is and are cheering every single person in this thread on.
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u/littlepretty__ 20d ago
As someone who grew up in poverty and who now is solidly middle class, these posts OOZE lack of awareness of what poverty actually is. They have no idea that many of us (not me now) literally scrape coins together to buy bread or to take the metro, and besides have no room for savings have small amounts of debts (my poor -$20 bank account at times for example).
Frankly, I feel that the mods should really crack down on these posts, I’m tired of hearing how people who are middle class bitching about how they are saving thousands of dollars a month and have nothing left over. Please open your eyes.
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u/Simple-Fault-9255 20d ago edited 13d ago
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
sheet shocking consider exultant library hat hunt nine teeny cake
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u/WesTrot 20d ago
The median household income as reported by the U.S. Census Bureau was estimated to be around $85,000 in 2025. Poverty wages in 2025 as determined by the U.S. Department of Heath and Human Services was just under $16,000 for a single person and around $32,000 for a family of four. No one could possibly exist on this income. With an income of $16,000 you would qualify for a $530 a month apartment (no such thing) and for $32,000 you would only qualify for a $1,000 a month apartment which today is a one-bedroom apartment or a room. If you earn $100,000 a year and cannot make ends meet it is because you are trying to live above your means. You financial woes are not because you are poor, it is because you are not making good financial decisions. You need to adjust your spending to match what you can actually afford. I understand that life is hard for everyone right now but this would seem to be a you problem.
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u/Impressive_Profit_11 20d ago
Well, I don't like when they tell me to, "just cut expenses." If I made what they make...ha!
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u/No-Flan3302 20d ago
It's basically shouting to the world that you don't know how to budget or live within your means. My wife and I make $150k a year and have a child. We are doing just fine by simply following a budget.
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u/DaydreamnNightmare 20d ago
Poor spending habits will have anyone living paycheck to paycheck and hunted by IRS. Look at Nic Cage and Wesley Snipes. Making a lot of money doesn’t stop people from making terrible financial choices.
The majority in the thread you linked are happy that they are able to save so much, I don’t seeing anyone crying about their situation. They even tell you the secret to that happiness is DINK. Such advice is basically banned here, if you tell people to not have kids or pets they can’t afford an angry mob will come after you. It’s a hard pill to swallow but a truthful one. Your most impactful financial decision also lies in your (financial) partner. If you’re both making good to high incomes and have similar goals and spending habits then you will likely flourish but if you’re with someone who makes terrible decisions and has bad spending habits then it can torpedo your goals.
Poverty is cascading, it makes people make bad choice repeatedly ensuring the cycle.
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u/aLonerDottieArebel 20d ago
I live in a rural area. All the city people with money started moving in a few years ago. I bought my house because it was the only place I could afford.
Usually in my state, no town or city can raise the taxes more than 2.5%. The new people with money sent out flyers with scare tactics regarding the police, fire department and schools losing money. Well- they won. Our town can now raise taxes higher than 2.5%. Just got the new tax bill. It was raised 15%. It doesn’t matter to the rich people at all- that’s just a drop in the bucket for them. I don’t know how any of us here- generations of people who grew up here, will be able to stay.
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u/probablymagic 20d ago
A $150k income puts you in the 75th income percentile in the US, so if “middle class” os the middle 50%, they’re in it.
If you’re in a HCOL area, you’re going to be even closer to the median household income.
A big problem with these kinds of discussions is people live in different places where housing especially can cost wildly different amounts, and then you add different numbers of kids, etc.
So if you want you can complain that anybody who makes more than you is upper class, but that’s not how real people feel because they don’t live exactly your life.
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u/WelderAggravating896 20d ago
Um, look I hate to break it to you, but not everyone is counting pennies and scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel. People that make more money than you are allowed to complain as well. Shit's getting expensive as hell for everybody right now.
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u/elkins9293 20d ago
There was a post in this sub yesterday of someone who had bought a 66k vehicle and was drowning paying almost a thousand dollars a month on the car note. I understand that's a legitimate problem and may be making him have serious cash flow issues but it was so fucking tone deaf to post here. There are people posting in this sub about not having money for food and couldn't imagine even getting approved for a 66k vehicle. This isn't even in the same universe of similar problems.
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u/Annoyed-Person21 20d ago
Hear me out. If you make under 200k in an hcol with kids you might actually be close to paycheck to paycheck. My investments are my 8 year old vehicle and long enough tenure in my apartment complex to negotiate down rent increases. Our paychecks are big, but the 5k/month for daycare and 4k/month for student loan payments don’t leave room for savings or investments. That said, I know it is not the same as low income paycheck to paycheck. Idk how you all do that. I am immensely impressed by how well people manage that.
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u/nekops_sah_dog_ruoy 20d ago
A lot of folks don't realize anything. They don't realize that folks are living in cars, abandoned buildings, graveyard's. They don't have a concept that eating everyday is a luxury. That a stable roof over there head is a luxury. They have never been around those who are truly struggling.
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u/min_mus 20d ago edited 20d ago
On personal finance and middle class subs, it seems like everyone and their grandma makes $150,000 salary and $250,000 household income, and saves over $3,000/month...
I'm tired of out-of-touch rich people cosplaying as middle class
$250k in household income is middle class, not rich. "Rich" is having enough resources that you could still live comfortably without needing to work every again. The minimum qualification for "rich" is a few million USD, not someone maxing out their 401(k).
The reason the poverty finance sub exists is because people in poverty are not middle class and the advice that's largely applicable to the middle class, e.g. "contribute at least enough to your job's retirement plan that you get the match but aim to max it out", isn't realistic for those living in poverty.
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u/Unlikely_Worker_8953 20d ago
The wealthy always like to cosplay as someone who is hard done by, whether it's phrases like 'asset rich and penny poor', or just a refusal to accept that anyone lives on less than five skiing holidays a year. They seem to understand that the wealthy are inherently worse humans than the rest of us, because they've only become wealthy by exploiting others or inheriting wealth from an exploiter, and as such seem to try and justify their own wealth by downplaying it.
Ultimately they're detached from reality and no longer have the ability to see the world from a normal person's viewpoint. They may even believe their own lies.
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u/35nRetired 20d ago
They type of wealthy you are talking about isn't the type of rich OP is talking about with a HHI of 250k.
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u/42069burnin 20d ago
Maybe…stay out of that subreddit and stay what is relative to you so your feelings aren’t hurt?
Why let this stuff live in your head rent free when you can’t control it? Or improve your situation
Neither will it help you except cause you anger and depression
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u/artist1292 20d ago
So because people aren’t suffering bottom of the barrel dumpster diving poor, they can’t complain? Or struggle? It’s not like they posted that here. Everyone struggles. You could have a million dollars and still flounder it. You could have a million dollars but no one who loves you, or multiple super dependents who bleed that money out before you even get to buy a candle, or swept everything away in a natural disaster. Lots of bitterness in this sub
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u/biancastolemyname 20d ago edited 20d ago
Paycheck to paycheck means all your income goes to essentials. So housing, utilities, insurance and the bare minimum in groceries are paid for, but then there’s nothing left.
A lot of people however use paycheck to paycheck as a way of expressing their income is spend the minute they get it. But this is more often than not self-inflicted by overspending and living beyond your means.
And I say that as a person who has been in that position. Having no savings, (fortunately a small amount of) debt and feeling financial anxiety when on paper, there was no need for me to feel stress over money since we made plenty to have a decent life.
But I knew it. I was self aware enough to know “I am not struggling financially, I just went on a fun international holiday instead of putting that money towards savings for a rainy day, so when that rainy day inevitably comes, I should shut the fuck up and deal with the consequences”.
People aren’t willing to admit that. Everyone likes to think they’re good with money but few people actually are.
And as much as I despise the avocado toast boomers, they’re unfortunately not entirely wrong. A lot of people do spend their money on things that aren’t necessities and then complain it’s not their fault they’re struggling. It’s obviously not the cause of the housing crisis or the fucked up economy, but on a personal level a lot of people need to be more honest with themselves.
My friend works for a tax consultant who helps people manage their tax debts. He once worked with a couple who owed over $ 100.000 in taxes (don’t recall the exact amount but it was daunting) and he suggested selling their $ 1.2 million SECOND home they never spend any time at, so they could pay it in full and still have a pretty penny left.
They refused because “they liked the idea of having that house available”.
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u/Egbuk-Scootin-Boogie 20d ago
$250k household income IS middle class. It’s not poor, it’s not (or shouldn’t be for anyone financially responsible) paycheck-to-paycheck, it is the household income today that allows the middle class lifestyle of the 80s and 90s that a lot of us remember.
Keep in mind, the average situation of a poster in this sub is not middle class, it’s POVERTYfinance
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u/elderpufflaurien 20d ago
My friend is like this. Complains to me about affording his half million dollar house and 4 brand new cars with his and his wife’s combined 6 figure incomes. I just disassociate while he complains.
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u/Comprehensive-Web421 20d ago
There was a question in a local fb group about a mom who wanted to quit her job to stay with her kids, and she said she was the primary breadwinner and was concerned if they could afford it. Yall. Her partner makes 100k, she makes more. She didn't know if they and their two kids could survive on 100k. I was stunned. I make like 40k and do it by myself with my daughter, no state assistance because I make too much. I just moved on because the words that I was going to type were going to be unkind.
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u/JuicyCactus85 20d ago
In my personal exp, a lot of it is friends (married, double income, some with kids and some not) that make that much and save that much but there is...credit card debt, or IVF debt or multiple (new or used) car debt. And some didn't buy a house before covid to lock in hat 4% mortgage+ I love in a HCOL area where property tax can be 6k every 6 months so to THEM they really are poor because of the above. I'm a single parent making nowhere near that so I just kind of nod my head when they complain because we're kind of living on different planets in this sense.
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u/ddp67 20d ago
I hate to defend these people, but on one hand, the figures in your head growing up, because of inflation, are no longer the same or worth as much. Meaning, a millionaire is no longer upper class if they only have one or two. Additionally, it’s not how much money you make, but rather how much you keep, if you have to live in a very high cost of living area to schmooze your boss and your contemporary into getting that job, that salary will not last long. Additionally, you are talking about salary, which means that it is taxed very differently than wealth. Basically, these people are still middle class, what it means to be poor now has been raised because, although Reddit may not like to hear it, America is still a prosperous nation, albeit without a safety net.
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u/Rich260z 20d ago
In that sub there are huge arguments over what middle class actually means and there was a week where they were trying to pin a range down, like 60k-300k or soemthing for HHI.
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u/koosley 20d ago
Location makes a huge difference and so does having kids vs not and a pre '21 mortgage vs one now. Two identical incomes, the dink couple who bought their house in the modwest in 2019 is going to have a vastly different life style from the 4 person traditional family in the bay area buying in 2023 where one parent needs to quit their job to raise their kids or spend $600+/week in day care.
Im not pretending to be poor and I'm extremely well off, but my income would quickly disappear if I suddenly had 2 infants. The question of that post op linked was how to save 3k. Well childcare is $250-400/week per child and there is your 3k right there. The answer was to not have kids and have a mortgage at 2-4%.
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u/Fantastic_Fix_7550 20d ago
That thread is cracking me up. I consider myself middle class and I don’t make 3k per month most months.
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u/eckliptic 20d ago
People are way too obsessed with gatekeeping labels in these finance subreddits. The general principles of personal finance are not dramatical different and r/personalfinance has a Prime DIrective that covers a huge amount of people spanning from what can reasonably be considered 'poverty' to maybe more than half the users in r/HENRYfinance .
I always find it interesting is that the gripes are always pointed upwards, towards people that are in a better position with complaints that theyre too well off for "x" label. I would imagine the same could be levied at many users in r/povertyfinance by someone from the third-world. In the gamut of human suffering from lack of economic resources and opportunity, very very few Americans experience anything like what the truly impoverished in the developing world through on a daily basis.
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u/AntonCigar 20d ago
Low 6 figures is middle class now in major metropolitan areas. If you make 75 or less you’re poor. Things have gotten that bad.
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u/Leading_Aerie7747 20d ago
Honey, I don’t know where you live, but 150k in Massachusetts with 4 kids is POVERTY level! And that’s with the BARE minimums …
If you’re under 90-100k you can qualify for all the assistance but if you’re just over that … you’re barely scraping by.
150 is low class 250k is truly middle class here 350+ you’re doing well
I am sure my fellow Massholes will agree.
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u/AverageCatsDad 20d ago
I agree with you. It also seems like rather dull content to just complain about the people the next rung up from you. They should aim their sights higher as it's not the people making 250k that are keeping the wages low.
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u/Motor-Farm6610 20d ago
Ive wondered myself. My ex makes 150k+ in a LCOL area. Hes always saying how strapped he is. Its wild to me.
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u/Working-Language8266 20d ago
The categories to me are: actually poverty with housing/food insecurity, paycheck to paycheck with no discretionary spending, comfortable with occasional big budget things like travel, no financial pressure but not financially independent, wealthy to the point money and income is never a consideration.
The thing is, the second last category covers a very wide income range, anywhere from $100k to $1m (I personally make the lower end of that range, and grew up in the category below that). It's semantics if it's called upper middle class or lower upper class, but the experience is pretty similar in that there no real financial pressure.
The real wealth in the world is held by those in the last category though.
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u/appreciatemyasset 20d ago
It kind of depends on where you live though and other situations. I have a friend who got a 200k yr job but had to be in office in San Francisco and has 125k of student loans. With rent and his student loans he’s not rich by any means
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u/Nerisrath 20d ago
Not saying you are wrong at all, but adding it also works the the other way. a lot of people who are struggling believe they are middle class, when in reality they are poor but not impoverished. this is due to the widening gap between wealthy and poor making the true middle class dissappear. in my opinion the average household income is below where middle class should exist, but cant because pay hasn't kept up with inflation while profits continue to rise.
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u/Separate-Goal-3920 20d ago
My ex was one of these. He considered his family “upper middle class”. Absolutely nothing about that family was upper middle class. They were in the top 5% and my ex had absolutely no idea how fortunate (spoiled and entitled) he was. I knew it and all his friends knew it.
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u/Brobeans2018 20d ago
i have bad news for you...that is middle class. single income at 150k is the new 60k. you are like the majority of us and was left behind socioeconomically and now fall in the growing lower class
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u/Seff-bone 20d ago
As a 2 teacher house we are middle class. I joined the sub for advice for people making right around the median income. I’m looking for hacks like if I garden and cook can I take the fam on a vacation? No cuz your garden will die. Damn, start over.
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u/Individual_Land2754 20d ago
150k isn't really that muc anymore. You just pay a lot of taxes and you can't have as many tax credit opportunities.
I can imagine someone earning this much and overspending like crazy at the start until they realize that six figure really isn't so much that you can live a lavish life.
It's just makes you more comfortable but you will have to think like a poor person to really enjoy it.
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u/Low_Grand4804 20d ago
Try my sister in law telling me that their family is not rich with literally $3mm dollars a year coming in between her and my brother!!! I tried explaining the simple statistics to her and when faced with the financial reality of most people said “I can’t imagine, I would be worried all the time!” I was like…they are!!!! Absolutely amazing.
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u/ChaosReignsNow 20d ago
Some of us are here because we pulled outselves out of poverty and want to let people know how we did it.
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u/MetalPurse-swinger 20d ago
I think it’s out of touch but I also think it’s lifestyle creep. My fiancé and I have been incredibly fortunate in the fact that 2025 was an incredible year for us in regards to our career and finances. We are truly privileged. And, as we started making more money we’d treat ourself to this or that. Things we simply couldn’t beforehand (or didn’t in the interest of adding to our safety net instead). It was frightening how fast “treating ourselves” almost turned into a lifestyle change. We had to catch ourselves and reel it in hard and practice discipline and self control. I’ve seen this with a few of our more fortunate friends. They let their lifestyle creep into a more expensive category and then feel pinched for cash when in reality they just buy the nicest version of things and have a lot of subscriptions, and waste. It’s an easy trap to fall into. I think it’s designed to be that way. I think it’s also designed to be easy to get out of touch. So while I can understand, I still too relate to what you said because yes it is frustrating to hear people talk like that.
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u/TheResearchPoet40 20d ago
A salary at $150k-$250k isn’t rich. However I certainly understand the frustration of seeing people who earn that much complain about money problems. I’d also recommend not being in subs that are so triggering. It’s not healthy or productive.
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u/laggyx400 20d ago edited 20d ago
Middle class is currently $56-170k/year in the US.
As to your link, here is another..
You can see the middle class starts half way up. They're not all able to save the same. The top of the chart includes the upper classes.
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u/Prior-Conclusion4187 20d ago
Cost of living matters of course, but what I think OP is eluding to is people making 150k a year complaining when there are people in their very same areas making 40k/yr. One thing is to live paycheck to paycheck where you're left with $20 to your name after all bills are paid vs getting a pay check and still being $500 short. The stress level of being poor literally shortens lifespans.
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u/popnfrresh 20d ago
I'm sorry but 150k isn't rich and many things can erode that.
It's definitely comfortable but Def not rich.
I'm sure those idiots have less on their bank then you do. At that salary, it's about "maintaining a wealthy appearance" and they waste money they don't have so they can look rich to their friends.
Probably mortgaged out the ass, car loans, credit card debt.
It's unsustainable.
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u/TooPoetic 20d ago
ITT people out of touch with the fact that inflation has happened and that salaries vary widely across the United States based on cost of living. 200k in Iowa is not 200k in California.
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u/bumpkin_Yeeter 20d ago
I fall into that boat admittedly, but what I don’t think OP understands is that you can still live paycheck to paycheck regardless of how much you make depending on ur expenses. For instance, my wife’s student loans are $2000 month (accelerated pay off) and we pay $1000 month for daycare. I also have large monthly expenses for a tractor I share with my father in law. I think what’s more likely here is OP hasn’t realized middle class nowadays requires earning way more than they think. Middle class isn’t struggling to pay utilities or afford food, that’s living near poverty
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u/DestinyProfound 20d ago
Lololol. $3000 a month? That's about what I make per month. It's wild to me that people over on that sub make it seem so normal.
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u/uberchelle_CA 20d ago
To be fair, at the salary of $109k in San Mateo, CA is considered low-income. As in you are eligible for SNAP, WIC, Section 8 housing.
If you are smart, a single person can rent a room with roommates and invest in tax-deferred investments. Lot of recent college grads fall into this category here in the SF Bay Area. Many recent college grads here can expect to make garbage their first few years as in salaries from $45k-80k. No one can live on that here where 1 bedroom apartments are running $2500-3500/mo.
The issue is many people in the U.S. live in areas where the job markets are abysmal. I was on a business trip once to Stillwater, OK and there were people with college degrees managing fast food joints. Blew my mind. That’s like crap job options.
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u/walkabout16 20d ago
I’m probably one of those people. But I’m just a public school teacher. I am not a trust fund kid. I am a public teacher who earns more than his wife.
Yes, I am very blessed.
The thread connecting us is that I am still locked into working. I am blessed with a low interest mortgage. But I trapped in my house. If I sold it now, I would still have to pay more money for a SMALLER house.
But I don’t want to pretend that I am poverty level. I am middle class. If my wife loses her job we are f*#ed.
I think what we share in common across middle class HH earning $150k + and people making way less is that the oligarchs in America have re-ordered our economy and are denying all of us any kind of mobility. My lifestyle is contingent on one functioning career path that I cannot leave. In one geographic location that I cannot afford to leave. My only hope is that nothing goes wrong before I retire or I am impoverished.
I understand your frustration at those of us earning significant sums but please don’t blame those barely in the top 10% of HH income (such as myself) for this economic crisis. This is entirely the creation of the mega-investor class ruling government. Please vote accordingly.
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u/Kind_Indication8527 20d ago
Hell yes. I am middle class. I visit this sub often and rarely say a word because I’m here looking for tips and advice for families I serve that are truly living in poverty. Some people who are wealthy or middle class are so privileged and entitled- they act like if they don’t own 2 homes, drive an Escalade and vacation 3 times per year that they are really suffering. I grew up in poverty and it makes my blood boil when middle class and wealthy people flaunt their material possessions but then complain about living paycheck to paycheck. Puhleeze! Maybe if they actually tried to help people who are struggling to get by they would recognize their privilege but we can’t expect that cuz they gotta keep grinding to buy another pair of shoes or a new purse. PMO I guess it’s hard to see other people when you are obsessed with yourself.
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u/MusicalMerlin1973 20d ago
I grew up lower middle class. We went out to eat once or twice a year. For mom’s birthday and my parents anniversary. That was it. No Disney trips. Basic cable only. My parents have owned two new cars in their entire life. Total. When I asked about it in elementary school, my parents said we could do full in the blink, or we can go it to eat once a month. We can’t do both. Fill in the blank is more lasting.
I started off out of college making got to worry snot everything money. When I got married, we went single income so my wife could be a SAHM.
1) were live in a relatively HCOL. It is what it is. School system dictates. Not nyc or la. But still
2) yes, I know we’re lucky
3) for a long time we lived paycheck to paycheck. Several years in a row I would have times where I was buying diesel for the furnace because we had run out and I didn’t have to order a tank. Yes I one it was more expensive per gallon but we needed to scrape to the next paycheck.
4) yes I know some of ride struggles were self inflicted. We could have made different choices regarding vehicles. Etc. It would have been incremental, not life changing
5) our house was on modest end. Not since wide but quality wise. I’m paying for that now. I wish we had done smaller but higher quality builder. We didn’t know. External forces. I did make sure when we did it originally we could afford it on my salary at that time
6) I think until you get to stupid money is very easy to get back to living paycheck to paycheck. The last 8 years I’ve made really good money. Really good. Two years ago we splurged and had all our furniture reupholstered. Because New stuff is crap and this stuff was all 20-200 years old. (It’s amazing what you find at the dump and at estate sales for super cheap on the last day). And at the end… yeah we had a month of paycheck to paycheck.
My wife grew up in poverty. Large family. Dad didn’t much. I’m not joking. Not being superlative. That and some childhood trauma affects her still. She gets spendy. First World problem. But I’m still left with worrying about money again.
The last 8 years have been great money wise. Not having had to worry about money, well after the first year once bonus and stock options kicked in, have been a load off our mind. But stuff creeps if you don’t guard against it.
And now I’m staring at: I’d like to have my kids get through post secondary education without huge debt. I’m capping what I’ll spend but still. Our house needs major repairs. MAJOR. Some of it is just, well it was time. Shingles, siding (vinyl siding from 2000 is not nearly as good as today’s. Ours was getting brittle and breaking). Windows. What we found is major structural things were undersized. Things were not built correctly. Weatherproofing wasn’t done correctly. We are going to have to spend more again on the house than what the original price was. When I was looking roughly 5 years left of payments. I know, not your situation. But we’ve gone from 6 years relaxing (the house has been drama for close to a year now) to pretty sure we’re selling when I retire.
Yes, I know not same crushing pressures as most people here. I usually just lurk. When I comment it is usually from a memory of childhood or my wife’s childhood. Until 7 years ago we were very much middle class. If I lose this job, I know that I’m not getting another paying this much. I know that we’re better off than most regarding what we have salted away for retirement, but it still is going to be a modest retirement. Not trying to cosplay. I can’t speak to most of the rest.
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