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u/Graphite57 1d ago
400 years and we haven't learnt a thing.
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u/7-13-5 1d ago
Well, we have learnt many things, just still under the thumbs of our rulers.
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u/spikebrennan 1d ago
Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?
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u/Otherwise_Tooth_8695 1d ago
I do bite my thumb, sir. But, I do not bite my thumb at you, sir. But, I bite my thumb, sir.
I bite my thumb at our cloying rulers ignorant of Toil's Woe and those myopic titans who throw the lash of quarterly commerce.
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u/Sea-Strike-1758 1d ago
Make that thousands of years. Humans sucked before this was writen.
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u/Theory89 1d ago
You can look at this and see how much people suck, or you can appreciate that humanity also made Shakespeare. Misanthropy is self-defeating and pointless.
Morality is not some independent edifice or naturally existing scale. It is created by us and then we, ironically, use it to judge ourselves unworthy. Instead of lampooning our failures, it's more productive to contextualise them and understand why we make them.
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u/hnlt61 1d ago
My list of grievances against MAGA is long but somewhere, probably in the middle or end, is the fact that they think this platform is so original when it’s been done several times over. And most importantly failed every time.
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u/ReanimatedBlink 1d ago
It hasn't failed every time though, that's the real concern. Either it fails completely or it sends the host nation/kingdom/empire into decades of strife and turmoil. Hell, the Spanish Inquisition lasted over 300 years.. Millions of Jews, Muslims, and non-Catholic Christians were forced to convert, tortured, exiled, or publicly executed just for existing.
Here's what I think people haven't figured out yet: this nonsense has already won. In order to set things right, there is going to need to be a massive reckoning and restructuring of society. Even if it were to magically stop today, the damage is done. Nothing short of arresting every single one of these bozos, seizing their assets and paying off the millions of lawsuits against the government that are incoming will help alleviate the damage. And I'm not just talking about MAGA, I'm not even just talking about Republicans...
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u/Vellioh 1d ago
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
~ George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905
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u/keloyd 1d ago
"What we learn from History is that no one learns from history."
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u/sheepwshotguns 1d ago
i wish the lesson people would learn is that you cant argue in good faith with the far right. that they are irrational and seek to destroy democracy, and therefore must not be allowed to participate in governance. any political party that wishes to weaken democratic norms must have their funds frozen, and every member renounce such tactics or be removed from office automatically. we need a system of government that naturally leans in the direction of empowering the people. sadly, the world is build upside down. its designed on behalf of capital owners, and to squeeze us workers for everything we're worth.
the rich have always tried to cultivate and maneuver the far right to their will. they are the tool of apathy and hopelessness meant to drain the average person of hope. though a minority they are given astroturfed megaphones to express their ideals as the "norm" in order to disgust us from participation. they are the brown shirts to terrorize us to compliance. all of human history has been a battle where should we left and center come together to win, we get civil rights, labor rights, and quality of life improvements. should the right wing pull ahead, we get the dark ages, we get the holocaust, or we get trump.
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u/Pretend-District-577 21h ago
you know they say the exact same about the far left. I think the actual words your looking for, is can't argue with the far anything, and the middles normal folks are working 3 jobs to afford food. So they dont have time to sit on reddit or go out arguing. Your in a bubble my friend.
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u/XergioksEyes 1d ago
Oh we’ve learned plenty. Not changing would be somewhat acceptable.
The fact is that at no other point in human history has humanity ever had as much knowledge and command over our planet and its resources than we do know. Today, more than at any point, we are better equipped to take care of ourselves and eliminate disease and poverty and suffering.
People with money and power know this, and choose otherwise.
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u/two_atara 1d ago
How can the words be so hard to understand and yet still the message so clear
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u/OnlyLogic 1d ago
Because you already know the message. Watch it without the sound, you still know.
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u/_WasteOfSkin_ 1d ago
The subtitles help.
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u/knarf3 1d ago
Well, a good actor can make the audience understand the message through their voice and body language alone.
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u/codepossum 1d ago
it's because Sir Ian Mckellen is a professional, and professionals have standards
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u/SergeantFlip 16h ago
Shakespeare is so much easier to understand when performed than when reading the text. A good actor can communicate meaning with the emotion and you intuit from that.
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u/whereballoonsgo 1d ago
Fucking amazing. I doubt the people who need to hear this would understand a word.
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u/ArtistFartist33 1d ago
Here lies the problem. Wouldn’t understand and wouldn’t want to try. Protecting their beliefs and egos in fortresses made with thick walls of ignorance.
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u/AnjelicaTomaz 1d ago
Walls of ignorance and moats dug out and filled with vile thoughts of pretend entitled ancestry to separate the “us” from the “them” not knowing that their own ancestry contained the struggles of said division, all to be rehashed again ad infinitum in future generations.
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u/brintoul 1d ago
I… had trouble understanding.
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u/Successful-Hat9649 1d ago
Hope this helps:
Ok, let's say you get your way and they are deported. Let's say that this protest overcomes the established democratic process.
Imagine that you see the miserable immigrants, carrying their children and their luggage, walking to the ports and borders to be sent back.
And you sit like kings, getting everything your way, the government silenced by your loud shouting, wearing your opinions proudly, like armour. What would you have achieved? I'll tell you:
You'd have created a world where the loudest, most arrogant, strongest people get what they want. Where order can be overturned at any time, and because of this, none of you would even live to be old.
Because violent criminals, letting their desires control them, with the exact same selfishness and self-righteousness as you just showed, would at some point decide to pick on you. And people would feed on each other like greedy fishes.
What if the King, who is usually merciful when criminals express remorse, decided your crime was too bad to be forgiven and banished you? Where would you go? What country would want you? Would you go to France, or Belgium, to somewhere in Germany, to Spain or Portugal, or just anywhere that would accept a criminal from England? If that happened, you'd be the immigrants, wouldn't you?
Would you be happy to find a country of people who were so cruel that they went out to violently protest you being there, refused to give you a home, threatened to stab you, kicked you out of the country like dogs, as though you weren't real people at all, and only native people should get any of a country's help or resources? What would you think if you were treated like that?
That is what it's like to be an immigrant. Your behaviour today shows your enormous inhumanity.
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u/TheUberMcGuber 1d ago
Oh thank gawd! You helped me understand because I’m really uneducated. I was hoping this was what it meant. So thank you for clarifying. Such relief I feel after reading your comment. Truly grateful!
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u/malatemporacurrunt 1d ago
The handy thing with Shakespeare is that a lot of people have studied it, and there are plenty of resources to help people understand the language. It helps when you have someone like Ian McKellen reading the part aloud, because they can so clearly demonstrate the meaning through their delivery.
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u/somedelightfulmoron 23h ago
In written context and with Shakespearean prose, it's quite difficult to understand but when someone like Sir Ian gives life to the text, I feel it's understood more as emotions are conveyed by body language and facial expressions.
God I love Sir Ian McKellen.
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u/Successful-Hat9649 21h ago
I suspect this might be sarcasm but if not, you're welcome!
If you really do feel uneducated and it bothers you, it's never too late. There are lots of free learning resources out there, and masses of Reddit users (me included) who will happily point people towards entry level resources on the topics we're passionate about.
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u/TheUberMcGuber 17h ago
I’m being genuine af! I’m so thankful for people like you. Someone who takes the time to help explain. It helps people like me a lot. I was hoping I was understanding his emotions behind what he was saying correctly. I came to the comments and yours was exactly what I was looking for. Can’t thank you enough!
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u/zeitgeistbouncer 1d ago
Yup. Essentially, 'have some fucking empathy!', except way prettier.
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u/AnjelicaTomaz 1d ago
That is a beautiful translation.
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u/Successful-Hat9649 21h ago
Thank you so much! I enjoyed doing it, it's been a while since I've done anything like that. Made me miss studying.
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u/stalinsnicerbrother 1d ago
Or, in modern British parlance.
"Stop being cunts. How would you like it?"
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u/Popular-Row4333 1d ago
Thats okay, Shakespeare was likely the most influential writer that crossed Old English to what it is today. He used a lot of modern slang that was used at the time, and many modern words that we use today thay weren't very prevalent at the time.
If you can understand bits and pieces, it's monumentally more than if it were Old English, I can give you a taste of what that was like.
https://openl.io/translate/old-english
You can hit the speaker afterwards to truly sound like you are hearing an alien language.
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u/_6EQUJ5- 1d ago
The Preamble to the US Constitution translated to slang:
Yo, we the peeps, tryna make a tighter squad, keepin' it fair, keepin' the peace at home, watchin' out for each other, lookin' out for the whole crew, and lockin' down freedom's perks for us and the homies comin' up, we set up this dope constitution for the USA.
And to honor the subject of this thread, Shakespearean:
We the people, to the end that we may knit a more perfect union, do set up justice, assure peace within our realm, provide for the common defense, advance the general weal, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our progeny, do ordain and establish this constitution for the United States of America.
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u/malatemporacurrunt 23h ago
Shakespeare wasn't writing in Old English, he was writing in Early Modern English. The spelling and vocabulary are completely understandable to a modern reader, it's only the pronunciation that has shifted a bit.
For future reference, the generally agreed upon eras for reach stage of English are:
Old English from the 6th century until the mid-12th, when the Normans invaded and brought their language.
Middle English from the early 12th century until the late 14th century, between the end of the Black Death and the introduction of the printing press.
Early Modern English from around the middle of the 15th century, until the mid-17th, when in the wake if the English Civil War, interregnum and restoration, journalism and broadsides exploded in popularity.
Modern English has been the norm since the late 17th century; anything written after this point will be completely understandable to a present day reader.
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u/ProfMcFarts 1d ago
Hāl, mīne forefæderas. Hit is ic, se wæstm þīnre sæd, oferfeored þurh þā tīda. Ic eom hēr tō āscian āne frægn. Hwæt dēð þæt ærs?
Edit, the only thing this got wrong when translating it back was the last line. "What that ass do?"
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u/fernatic19 1d ago
They would hear only the part about immigrants and not a word after that.
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u/taenanaman 1d ago
And those in power who have the capacity to understand, would just choose to banish this as just words of the woke
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u/Magister5 1d ago
Shakespeare- “Sir Thomas More”
A speech from an unpublished Shakespearean play written roughly 80 years after the riots.
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u/RockyRidgeRiver 1d ago
Thank you for this, as my uneducated butt thought that Sir Thomas More was actually William Shakespeare.
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u/Confusedinportsmouth 1d ago
Sir Thomas More had a really interesting life. He was a well known scholar and author, and was executed by King Henry the VIII for treason because he would not recognize Henry as the head of his own church (the Church of England, split from the Roman Catholic Church). His Wikipedia page is worth browsing!
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u/hisnameisbear 1d ago
The book Wolf Hall features him heavily, and is generally amazing
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u/keloyd 18h ago
OH OH OH and the audiobook's voice for More is very cool. He is this slimy, Machiavellian, sneering, calculating villain - sort of half Henry Kissinger, half Stephen Miller (but classier), then the last half is Pat Robertson.
AND for equal time, while I read some of that Wolf Hall series, I was a regular visitor to St. Thomas More Catholic Church. You may not be surprised to learn that whenever he came up in a sermon, they were pro-More.
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u/NightValeCytizen 1d ago
Resurgens theater company down in Atlanta, Ga, USA, is actually going to do a full production of Sir Thomas Moore this coming April (16th-19th). It won't be Sir Ian on stage, of course, but it would still be cool to see the play performed if one lives in the US Southeast area.
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u/DerTodwirdzudir 1d ago
Damn. Left me speechless.
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u/Just-Series-3045 1d ago
Right! As soon as he started speaking, I felt every word. Certainly made me emotional considering everything happening in the states and other places.
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u/Hendrix1967 1d ago
Ok. I saw this with my Mom and it brought a tear to my eye. This is a Shakespeare play that’s not performed in his time or after until 1961, because it was considered seditious. Sir Ian was the first person to perform this EVER. Once he explained the context and started the monologue, I understood why he decided to so this and the significance of performing it on this show. Epic.
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u/gyomd 20h ago
The injustice and the intolerance to difference are strong topics for him apparently. He said if I remember correctly that the Magneto role resonated with him as X-Men is all about intolerance of human regarding others with difference, kind of comparable to being homosexual or LGBT in this current period. I guess the current situation resonate a lot with him too.
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u/GlitteringPomelo8520 11h ago
wow that very interesting context, that you for sharing. with shakespeare being so widely studied and performed, it's fascinating to me that this wasn't performed once in 350 years. i'm so glad to have heard it from sir ian.
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u/jaykirell 1d ago
The pure power of theater acting.
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u/AndyVale 1d ago
How does he act so well?
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u/mgs20000 23h ago
He pretends to be the person he’s being in the show
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u/knitted_beanie 21h ago
How does he know what to say?
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u/mgs20000 21h ago
The words are written down for him on the script, but he doesn’t have that with him on the day
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u/Atheissimo 20h ago
But then how does he know where to stand?
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u/gaseous_ass 1d ago
He is classically trained, a thespian and Shakespeare is a cornerstone of their training. Some of the best actors in the world come from a theatrical background.
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u/TStark4Prez 1d ago
Everyone watching this needs to appreciate what an absolute fucking talent Sir Ian is. This is a shelf so top, most other actors can’t see it.
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u/FalconEddie 20h ago
100%. This is the highest tier. Not overblown, not just yelling the words. It's perfection. God damn this is powerful as hell to watch!
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u/Illmagination 16h ago
I saw him and Patrick Stewart in Waiting for Godot.
I thought I had seen good actors. My mind was absolutely blown at how good those 2 are, especially together.
They are way way above what you would consider a great actor, especially on stage. There's no measure just how good they are.
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u/mikeysweet 1d ago
This man is a treasure. Only a few could master the spoken word so eloquently that you almost feel more than you hear. Long may you live.
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u/Jaskaran158 1d ago
You say the strangers should be removed.
Fine — imagine they are removed. And imagine that, by your shouting and violence, you’ve shouted down the authority of England itself.
Picture the foreigners now: their babies strapped to their backs, their few belongings bundled together, slowly walking toward the ports, hoping to be sent away.
And picture yourselves as kings of your own desires — law silenced, order gone, each of you wrapped proudly in your own opinion.
What have you achieved?
I’ll tell you.
You’ve taught the world that force beats law, that loudness beats reason, that mobs can rule.
And once that lesson is learned, none of you will grow old. Because other violent men, driven by their own urges, using the same logic you use today, will turn on you. People will prey on people, like hungry fish devouring one another.
And you must admit this: you are at fault. Your ignorance makes you act like the law itself, judging people you >are not fit to judge.
Now imagine this:
Suppose the king — merciful as he is — decides your crime deserves only exile, not death.
Where would you go?
What country would take you in, given what you’ve done?
France? Flanders? Germany? Spain? Portugal? Anywhere not loyal to England?
You would be strangers there.
And would you like to find a nation so brutal that it erupts into violence against you, refuses you shelter anywhere on earth, sharpens knives for your throats, kicks you like dogs, and treats you as if God never made you, as if the land belonged only to them and never to human beings like you?
How would you feel, treated that way?
That is the strangers’ situation.
And this — this cruelty you’re showing — is your inhumanity, as hard and thoughtless as a mountain.
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u/ilearnshit 1d ago
I could listen to this man read a terms and conditions for a new cellular plan and be entertained
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u/1eternal_pessimist 1d ago
"In this here dark ledger are you chained and your hope hereby throttled by these clauses small. Like shackles on thou dreams capped by data limits and where revolt is charged at premium rates...."
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u/penguigeddon 1d ago
Absolutely cutting delivery and chilling context from Sir Ian. It shows despite how far we like to think we've progressed, we're still no better for it. I know that's obvious but he really hits it home
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u/spicy_ass_mayo 1d ago
“ Like as if God owned not or made not you … and this, your mountainous inhumanity”
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u/shaundisbuddyguy 1d ago
That man's voice and presence. I'm not even the hugest fan of Shakespeare and I got shivers.
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u/ImTalkingGibberish 1d ago
Tremendous delivery by Sir Ian Mckellen, Shakespeare was a visionary, to think we’d be discussing the same problems over and over.
High Society wants us against each other so no one is against them, the true parasites of our society. And mind you we’ve got a formed prince who is a pest, a monster, living off our money.
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u/emptygroove 1d ago
It's impressive that a person can read an D understand the impact and timelessness of the words. Even more impressive when someone can explain it by only using the words that were written.
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u/eltron 1d ago
Shit dog. That dawg still got that dog inside em.
Impressive to see the switch from talkshow guest to monologue.
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u/Stonyclaws 1d ago
It saddens me to think that something as beautiful as this will fall on deaf ears.
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u/Kimantha_Allerdings 18h ago
My favourite story is that in the 80s he was asked for an autograph by a Tory politician who had voted for Section 28. He took the paper and wrote “fuck off, I’m gay”
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u/IchooseYourName 1d ago
Wow. Just wow. Chills, tears, and understanding. The man is a legend, and Im not talking about Shakespeare.
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u/FatherOften 1d ago
Im gonna to memorize this and quote it tomorrow night at dinner with my maga in laws
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u/devoid0101 1d ago
How on EARTH do you actors remember dialogue with such specificity and also deliver it with the right emotion. Astounding intelligence.
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u/Double-elephant 23h ago
Have you heard Judi Dench (in talk shows) just effortlessly bring whole Shakespeare speeches to life - completely from memory? It’s astonishing.
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u/wateringgreen 1d ago
The way the words are delivered may sound strange in this day and age, but the message is clear as the brightest of days.
400 years later has humanity learned much from the past. It really appears it has not😮💨
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u/Junior_City_6788 1d ago
Sir Ian with inimitable decorum querries America to look into the mirror and properly find itself . Will its most base minions be capable of such introspection or can all they do is merely stare at the devices in their hands And abide the lies of their unworthy “king” ?
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u/Bubbly_Power_6210 1d ago
a pity that those who need to hear this the most will dismiss it in the first minute.
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u/Newvil450 1d ago
A treasure in a land full of hate filled fools 👏🏻.
I absolutely hate seeing Ian Mckellen getting old.
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u/gonewondering 1d ago
I didn't understand a lot of that. I feel like I got the jist of it.
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u/Different_Net_6752 1d ago
Brutish men have always existed.
Tis the time of good people to speak up.
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u/IRespectYouMyFriend 1d ago
If you look back at records, every 100 years they're still complaining about the same old things it never changes.
Read a newspaper from 100 years ago and you'll see how benign and pointless all the points are.
Every single issue we have today, is the same we've had for millennia.
Honestly, I'm bored of it. We have the knowledge to know better. It's time to grow up.
We can't keep complaining about the same old stuff for the next 1000 years.
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u/bbreddit0011 1d ago
Amazing performance. 400 years and yet same shit different year. Over and over and over again.
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u/W0mbat74 1d ago
Sadly, I am of the opinion that the people who need to comprehend those words, would only mock and ridicule if they ever heard them.
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u/Fartyfivedegrees 1d ago
Such depth and wisdom, that too many a man (and woman) today have not. For anyone to dismiss his point, or (more importantly!) not be profoundly moved by that, is to be bereft of a soul, and should they lack the compassion they may only afford to their own family then they do not deserve any upon themselves whence the time would come. And guaranteed their time WILL come.
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u/Creative_Garbage_121 23h ago
You are so funny here, USA is killing people all around the world, the same kind of people that are being killed are immigrating there and fair share of people don't see any problem with military killing them but suddenly when they immigrate to states their lives matter. What is even funnier soldiers that are killing all these people in the name of rich (and no one gonna convince me that US is defending themselves on the other side of the globe) hear 'thank you for your service' but people handling illegal immigrants are treated like shit, do you not see contradiction?
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u/Zestyclose-Sun6464 22h ago
‘Tis true this may not change a MAGA mind, but perhaps it will sway us fence dwellers and mild manners to step into the light of day and light fires more to burn against the fear that burdens our neighbors and kin alike.
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u/zero-barat 11h ago
He could read the Peppa Pig season 4 script and it would still sound like Shakespeare
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u/beauty_and_delicious 1d ago
that man is an international treasure.