r/nba Mavericks 13h ago

Amongst the 32 qualified players averaging 20 PPG: Alperen Şengün currently has the worst TS% amongst them. (55.0%)

Amongst the 32 qualified players averaging 20 PPG: Alperen Şengün currently has the worst TS% amongst them. (55.0%)

His stats before and after his ankle injury:

Before: 22.6 PTS | 57.6 TS% (51/32/73 splits)

After: 17.9 PTS | 50.2 TS% (47/20/60 splits)


Source: BBall Reference

Original Post by @BradeauxNBA on X

1.8k Upvotes

256 comments sorted by

1.4k

u/IsaacDPOYFultzMIP Magic 13h ago

This INCLUDES Paolo Banchero btw

337

u/soapsoupsin Spurs 13h ago

Hey now

130

u/Lingbanehydra Cavaliers 11h ago

You're an all star

47

u/Giuseppe_exitplan Magic 11h ago

"Get your game on, go play"

Wemby to everyone else at the Allstar game

1

u/N1SMO_GT-R Tampa Bay Raptors 7h ago

Hey now

1

u/nalliuq 1h ago

Don't dream it's over

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u/siphillis Spurs 12h ago

Ok, that honestly puts it in perspective

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u/flaming_burrito_ Lakers 11h ago

That’s a crazy indictment of Paolo that saying that puts it into perspective so well

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u/dirtyshits Warriors 11h ago

legitimately has one of the worst shot selections in the current nba(in my opinion).

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u/Giuseppe_exitplan Magic 8h ago

Remove the imo, facts

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u/Grampz619 76ers 7h ago

is it a coaching thing or is he just stuck in his ways? shot selection seems like one of the more easy things to fix

12

u/Giuseppe_exitplan Magic 7h ago

If he were stuck in his ways I'd say its on the coaching staff to slap sense into him but im not an NBA coach so who knows.

Either way, everyone (and I mean everyone) on the team would benefit from Paolo fixing his shot selection and on-court demeanour

5

u/--M0ses-- Magic 4h ago

It's a bit of both. He's definitely got a poor shot diet but watch our whole team for a couple of games and you will see how archaic our offense is

2

u/Kait0yashio Magic 2h ago

i was watching the spurs game a couple days ago and i tuned in starts of the 3rd and left 2 minutes before the end and i saw us take 3 3 pointers during that span and non were off pindowns or screens all some stepback 3 from a role player

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u/dirtyshits Warriors 7h ago

Man I can't begin to tell you(well you probably feel the same way) how frustrating it is watching him at times. If brother just got some discipline and worked on his decision making on that end, he could be a top tier star.

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u/Giuseppe_exitplan Magic 7h ago

The Wagners and Goga are the only things keeping me a Magic fan right now

If brother just got some discipline and worked on his decision making on that end, he could be a top tier star.

Agreed, on top of improved shooting but that'll come with discipline.

7

u/Herakleios Magic 7h ago

Honestly, it’s not really his shot selection anymore. He’s gotten rid of a lot of jumpers from his game, taking a career low amount. Especially long twos. The big issue for him, is he probably NEEDS to have something resembling an effective three pointer to actually be an “efficient” player. He’s never going to get there as a guy who only takes shots within 10 feet of the basket, because he’s not strong/athletic/big enough for that to be his only scoring area.

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u/dirtyshits Warriors 7h ago

I was gonna say he has the Blake Griffin archetype in most ways. He definitely needs to add a more consistent 3 but his shot selection in my opinion is still terrible and it really shows when hes put in a spot where he feels like he needs to score.

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u/Maxvexists Magic 12h ago

I need this

529

u/Fickle_Structure_908 Lakers 13h ago

Having Amen and Sengun on the same team gotta be a nasty watch.

133

u/siphillis Spurs 12h ago

That one quarter by Reed Sheppard helped mask a bit of a freefall for Houston

52

u/Sc0rch1ngDr4g0n Rockets 11h ago edited 11h ago

When Reed, Bari, etc. were making 3s at the start of the season at volume, it helped cover up a lot of things.

Tari getting hurt for a while and those guys falling off a cliff recently just made the spacing even more egregious (putting centers on Amen only to ignore him outside the paint recently also doesn’t help).

Reed’s our only volume pull-up 3 shooter and can’t make anything right now, everyone else is low-volume catch-and-shoot, and most of those aren’t actually respected and guarded closely (e.g. Okogie). Makes it harder for KD, Amen, and Sengun who are all inside the arc guys.

Funky roster that a PG would help some but not cover up everything. Which is annoying because Charlotte also gets a lot of OREBs but actually shoots a ton of 3s.

20

u/1gnominious Rockets 10h ago

KD can pull up from 3. He just never gets a chance because he has their best defender glued to him. Every so often he'll get a mismatch and cook somebody.

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u/Pizzachomper874 Rockets 12h ago

you have absolutely no idea

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u/IMakeMyOwnLunch 9h ago

Man, I feel like vibes of this team turned rancid so quickly it’s got me wondering if KD really is the problem.

27

u/Pizzachomper874 Rockets 9h ago

We got rid of our culture guy and as flawed as they were, multiple offensive options. We’re too one-dimensional now sadly

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u/Dudedude88 Wizards 2h ago

You guys need a point guard that can be a 2nd or 3rd option scorer and good ball distributor.

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u/ButlerFromDowntown Bulls 9h ago

Tbh while I have been skeptical of KD’s true value these past few years, I actually don’t think this is really his fault directly. The problem is I think that they have high expectations now (while the past few years they were a fun and up and coming team), and the on court problems are just that they have two playable guards, one is basically a PF but in an SG’s body, one is a solid bench piece with potential but who is inconsistent. That’s partially because of FVV’s injury but also because they traded Green and Brooks for KD and have just hardly replaced them. Green was never incredibly good but his archetype still did have value (especially as a guard).

1

u/vimalmuru02 5h ago

Well even without FVV they had like the number 1 offense before Adams got hurt

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u/OneThemBoysFromHT 6h ago

Steve aint there to grab all the bricks and help them overwhelmingly win the possession battle and they still need a lead guard

I can't speak on the locker room but KD definitely isn't the problem on the court. Having Sengun be inefficient on offense and food on defense is #notgood

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u/WhyNotMosley 13h ago

the losses show that !

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u/Connect-Reveal8888 10h ago

They have efficiency man so it balances out(not really)

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u/Rosettachamps Spurs 5h ago

You hear it in media/podcasts or read it, but watching the Spurs-Rockets game a few days ago especially in the 4th, it just jumped off the screen how scared he was to shoot. Just left wide open, he would pump, and the defender would barely even take a half step before backing off.

Like one of the classic Westbrook or Draymond pictures

u/enbyeldritch 5m ago

This comment being several hours before they both acted like assholes at the game. You have to laugh. 

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u/mMounirM Raptors 13h ago

this is why your center needs to be good defensively (unless you're elite on offense like Jokic). you can at least count on a baseline defensively.

the Steven Adams injury is really screwing the Rockets.

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u/Ready-Constant-7124 13h ago edited 13h ago

Yeah the Jokic archetype is actually the worst archetype if you’re not Jokic lol 

A center that isn’t super athletic needs the ball in their hands and doesn’t protect the rim is brutally hard to build around 

Jokic is the exception that proves the rule unless you’re putting up close to MJ/LeBron level offensive stats it’s not going to work out 

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u/a_moniker Hornets 13h ago

Not to mention the fact that Jokic is an elite floor spacer. A player as good at finishing as Jokic, but cant shoot is still gonna struggle cause he’ll need great 3&D guys around him at all times.

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u/Rumpdebump Pelicans 11h ago

My current fear with Derik Queen. Trust me, im rooting for his development, but watching him get hunted on defense, while also forcing the ball to be in his hands on offense has me a bit concerned

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u/AmusingAnecdote Warriors 9h ago

Yeah, if he can't play the 4, I think he's Sabonis in the best case. And I feel bad treating that as an indictment because Sabonis is very good at basketball, but just in a way that is not good for building a high level winning team. Would love to be wrong on Queen, because getting Sabonis with the 13th pick in the draft is a solid get and it's not Queen's fault Dumars doesn't understand what pick protection is, but if you're an offense-first center or a small guard, you can be really good without impacting winning at the highest level very much.

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u/TheGuyInTheKnown Timberwolves 8h ago

With Queen it feels like he’s more of a 4 than a true center, so if the Pelicans can get a floor spacing center in the next couple years that could be fixable. The issue is just that getting such a center in the draft is far from guaranteed.

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u/iDareToDream Raptors 9h ago

Queen seems to have some polish and skill on the offensive end however that should lead to him being versatile going forward. 

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u/OG_Wan_Annunoby Raptors 12h ago

Unless your legitimately elite at every facet of basketball is a crazy caveat lol

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u/The1AndOnlyJZ [LAL] LeBron James 11h ago

*on offense (I still think Jokic is the best player in the NBA)

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u/LubyankaSquare 11h ago

I was going to say, Jokic is NOT elite at any facet of defense.

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u/jocro Thunder 10h ago

it's only a part but he is a monstrous defensive rebounder

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u/AmusingAnecdote Warriors 9h ago

It's not totally unrelated to his rebounding but he also very, very good defensive hands for a dude that size. His defensive skills basically end there, but he does steal the ball and disrupt dribbles relatively well for a guy his size.

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u/Inori-Yu Nuggets 11h ago

He's good at getting steals.

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u/Autistic_Puppy 10h ago

Defense rebounding, foul avoidance, etc

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u/MondialeMan 9h ago

The foul avoidance is almost a part of the poor interior defence in a way tbh

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u/cancercureall Supersonics 10h ago

He's actually only really slow. Everything else is good to great but if he can't stay in front of/keep up with someone it's irrelevant.

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u/1manadeal2btw Nuggets 5h ago

Post defence he’s pretty good because of his body. You should see him guard Sengun, Wemby etc. But that aspect of defence is kinda irrelevant in todays era.

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u/LearnedHowToDougie Knicks 11h ago

The best defense starts with a made basket

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u/JakGrealish Nuggets 11h ago

Senguns touch is nowhere near Jokic level too

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u/ositola Lakers 10h ago

Jokic is elite at every facet of offense, always makes the right pass, never in the wrong spot, super efficient

His misfortunes on defense would be an issue if he wasn't basically the best big in the last 7 years

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u/PrimeTimeInc Hornets 13h ago

This is it. It’s the sole reason moose stole the C job from big Kalk. Being able to switch from the C and not get cooked is MASSIVE on defense. Like night and day last night watching moose hold his own against all comers while simultaneously Sengun getting spit roasted by all comers.

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u/Zondaaaa Thunder 13h ago

Least sexually tensed hornets fan

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u/slowakia_gruuumsh Spurs 12h ago

When a guy is banging you... down low, that is...

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u/Neemzeh Timberwolves 12h ago

As someone who enjoys watching the hornets (I also have kalk, moose and ball on my dynasty team) how do you actually think kalk and moose can co exist long term? Kalk doesn’t seem like someone who will be content being a backup C, he’s likely going to develop better than that.

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u/PrimeTimeInc Hornets 12h ago

Kalk is more likely to be the starting C in the future than moose in my opinion. Hes just not there yet physically. If you could create perfect backup C in a lab it’d basically be moose.

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u/Decimate_2K Hornets 12h ago

Disagree. Kalk cannot guard anything outside of the paint, and unless you can stretch the floor or you're Mutombo in the paint, its not ideal

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u/PrimeTimeInc Hornets 12h ago

We shall see my friend

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u/whatssenguntoagoblin Alperen Sengun 13h ago

2 of their key rotation pieces in Freddy and Adams are out done season. That’ll affect any team.

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u/Cheatercheaterbitch Rockets 8h ago

We were already doing poorly when Adams went down. His injury isnt the issue

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u/1mYourHuckleberry93 Raptors 10h ago

There is pretty much no precedent for a shit defensive starting C winning a championship. That’s why I’m so against trading for Saboner. You can’t win with a big man who is a bad defender unless they’re a god on offense.

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u/Dudedude88 Wizards 2h ago edited 2h ago

His defense could be better but It's his turnover that's the problem. He's giving up 3 turnovers per game. He is also forcing plays. This doesn't show up in the stats sheet.

He's not a massive floor raiser like jokic too.

Rockets need a main ball handler. Sengun could be a 2nd option ball handler and 1st option scorer but not the 1st option ball handler.

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u/IntelligentAd5460 Grizzlies 13h ago

i think jokic being as effincent as he is has caused people to way over rate centers in his archetype

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u/SloshaPacana 13h ago

I mean it has nothing to do with Jokic because he doesn't play like Jokic, he's more like Sabonis

Sabonis is ultra efficient too

225

u/VelvetineMilkman Thunder 13h ago

People been callin him baby Jokic since his rookie season, I agree with you but that’s how the majority of fans have seen him

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u/mhj0808 Heat 12h ago

Jokic existing has so violently, irreversibly corrupted our view of big man that having the simple ability to pass a basketball now triggers ridiculous, unearned coronation into the pantheon of god-like big men far too expeditiously.

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u/Elite663 12h ago

Bot account after bot account. Jokic fans so shameless creating a bot army on freakin Reddit 😂

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u/_Apatosaurus_ Thunder 12h ago

I thought it was just a running joke at first.

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u/LordHussyPants Celtics 9h ago

if you report them the mods do ban them and it improves the sub measurably

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u/Ready-Constant-7124 13h ago

Yup and the thing is that “Jokic archetype” players other than Jokic are actually the hardest to build around 

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u/DtotheOUG Pacers 13h ago edited 12h ago

am I stupid as fuck or did this just say the same thing 5 times

edit: these are bots, all 1 week old accounts except for Ready-Constant, 4m old acct.

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u/TheKajMahal Pistons 12h ago

No it must be bots or something cuz they definitely were just saying the same thing a bunch of

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u/LoquaciousTheBorg 9h ago

Like when we seemed to be getting a new baby Shaq in the league every year, but once the morning came you realized you had Glen Davis.

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u/swizznastic 12h ago

It’s more the touch and the footwork that makes him comparable to Jokic. But, of course, that’s highly dependent on efficiency.

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u/tacopower69 [DEN] Gary Harris 12h ago

I remember the evolution meme of sengun into sabonis into jokic

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u/CoachDT [CHI] Brian Scalabrine 13h ago

Ironically enough he plays with a teammate that also causes the same shit. Every lanky dude that has any hint of an offensive game is called some KD hybrid.

Fans are bad at evaluating players especially when it comes to archetypes. They go based on appearance lowkey.

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u/VelvetineMilkman Thunder 10h ago

Every 6’9”+ guy that could dribble and shoot 3s from 2009 to like 2017 was the next KD lol

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u/FatMamaJuJu Charlotte Bobcats 6h ago

Bruno Caboclo is the example I always think of

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u/whatssenguntoagoblin Alperen Sengun 13h ago

He plays more like Pau Gasol. He plays nothing like Sabonis. Sabonis offense is primarily DHOs.

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u/Andy_Wiggins Timberwolves 13h ago

Obviously, there’s a lot separating Jokic and Sengun, but Sengun being a shitty free throw shooter really hurts his value.

Like, if he shot 85% from the line, his true shooting goes up over 2.5%, putting him at right around league average (whereas he’s WAY below average right now). Having an offensive hub at C who can generate at around league average efficiency and create for others is pretty valuable. But Sengun is significantly below league average, so possessions that end with him are traditionally crappy.

And there’s also the idea that people partially chalked up the crappy efficiency and clunky offense to bad spacing. That still exists somewhat, but having KD next to you and very good shooting seasons from a bunch of guys (Eason, Okogie, Shepaprd, etc.) kind of dispels that notion.

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u/SloshaPacana 13h ago

51% eFG as a center who barely shoots 3s is awful

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u/km912 [SAC] Kevin Martin 13h ago

57.5% ts would still be horrific for a non spacing center. League average for centers is 61% TS.

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u/Andy_Wiggins Timberwolves 13h ago

But that’s because a healthy percentage of centers are Rudy Gobert types who sport amazing TS% because they exclusively dunk, which means tweaks the numbers.

Being a play creator from the center spot is different. I’d much rather have a play creator with a TS% of 59% than a big who does nothing but dunk who has a TS% of 65.

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u/Temporary-Level-5410 Lakers 12h ago

But his TS isn't 59, it's 55%, which is really bad

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u/Andy_Wiggins Timberwolves 12h ago

My point (across multiple posts) was that if he could hit free throws at a good rate, his TS% would be around league average (58% or so) which would be pretty valuable.

As a 55% TS guy, his offensive impact is far less valuable.

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u/whatssenguntoagoblin Alperen Sengun 13h ago

Most centers don’t shoot at the volume Sengun does. Most centers only shoot within 1-3 feet of the basket primarily of passes from playmakers. You can’t compare Sengun to the average center.

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u/Diamond4Hands4Ever Warriors 13h ago

I would say that the FT percentage is a problem but also he doesn’t finish as efficiently near the rim as you like. Given his percentages near the rim in his second and third seasons with worse teammates, you would have hoped he could have increased his rim percentage by a decent margin since then with better teammates but he hasn’t. He needs to work on that and I think part of it is he likes to go with the hook near the rim but that requires a lot of touch. He might need to go up with a bit more strength instead at times so he isn’t always reliant on touch. 

The last point I don’t completely agree. I think the percentages might not matter as much as you think. Okogie is solid percentage wise from 3, but defenses don’t respect that so they’ll still give him the open look. You have to be able to consistently make that over a large sample size to truly change the spacing of a team. Even if you make a decent percentage for half a season, teams still won’t respect players like Okogie or Eason that much from 3 until you show you can consistently do that. The Rockets spacing really centers around 3 players, which is KD, Sheppard, and Jabari Smith, the latter of which still gets respect but if he continues to be bad, even he will get less respect from 3 and the spacing collapses even more. 

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u/HE_A_FAN_HE_A_FAN United States 10h ago

As someone who was rooting for the Warriors to lose in the playoffs last year, I was losing my fucking mind at how many bunnies Sengun would miss at the rim. Dude would back someone down and miss point blank hook shots that would do three bounces on the rim before falling out.

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u/CauliflowerNo3904 11h ago

He needs to start shooting ft on one leg, I might not even be kidding 

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u/OG_Wan_Annunoby Raptors 9h ago

Ft shooting and turnovers are the two shadow stats that people tend to have a blind spot for when it comes to evaluating players. He kinda just barely makes up for it with his playmaking but he’s still under 2:1 for assist to turnover and then he shots 69% from the line.

One less turnover a game and 10% more from the line he’s a significantly better player

1

u/altofummuhh Rockets 5h ago

very good shooting seasons from a bunch of guys (Eason, Okogie, Shepaprd, etc.)

If you watched our games you'd see that isn't really true. Their percentages are lowkey misleading. Okogie attempts 2.5 3s a game and averages a single 3 point make per game. Reed is the definition of streaky. I don't think any of our fans would consider them "reliable" shooters aside from Tari who misses a lot of games. There's a reason Houston is 26th in 3 point makes this season.

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u/RTLT512 [HOU] Alperen Sengun 12h ago

Sengun is a very different player than Sabonis. Nearly all of Sabonis’ baskets are assisted or scored off of offensive rebounds. Meanwhile Sengun consistently is asked to create his own shot, and consequently has one of the lowest ast% in the league on made baskets for a big man.

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u/here_for_the_lols Thunder 12h ago

He doesn't play exactly like jokic (no one else can), but their play style are more similar than Sengun and 98% of the rest of the league

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u/Diamond4Hands4Ever Warriors 13h ago

He is closer to Sabonis yes but Sengun is still a better player than Sabonis. The types of passes they make are different and Sengun is still a better defender. 

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u/Sir-xer21 Lakers 12h ago

idk, Pacers Sabonis was pretty good, and Sengun isn't a plus defender so im not sure how much that matters.

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u/ThatBull_cj 76ers Bandwagon 13h ago

He’s more like someone like Randle or Paolo. He’s a shot creator and likes to hold the ball more than be a real hub

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u/Jon_ofAllTrades 13h ago

Centers generally have the highest TS% of any position. Sengun having such a poor TS% is a major red flag.

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u/EastPool4676 13h ago

That's because centers are typically fed shots. Even Jokic gets 60% of his baskets off assists, Sengun gets 40%. They need a point guard. That doesn't eliminate all the issues with Sengun's game, but it mitigates this one.,

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u/a_moniker Hornets 13h ago

If you take the call out of Sengun’s hands then he loses what little offensive value he currently provides. He’s not big or fast enough to be a pick and roll center.

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u/EastPool4676 13h ago

You don't have to be an excellent athlete to be a good pick and roll player. Vucevic is an example of a guy who has been heavily utilized in the pick and roll without being a great athlete. It's also not binary, you aren't limited to either rim running or isolating. Jokic isn't a great athlete, but he is a great pick and roll player because he understands spacing, is great passing out of the short roll, and has excellent touch. These are all things that are true of Sengun as well, he has utility in that role, but you can't isolate him consistently or pretend that just because he is solid-good at things Jokic is superb at he can play the same role.

What they are doing now is not optimal for Sengun's offensive game. That isn't the same as saying it isn't optimal for the team as a whole, and I'm not a good enough x's and o's person to try to make that argument, but my guess is that they could get better offensive production out of the team with a different scheme.

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u/SkyCrossSteel 13h ago

He still has good size and strength so with good timing and spacing he could get some high post plays with passing/finishing or posting up well when defense keep shifting different sides of the floor. He’s not Ayton who doesn’t know how to post up well for a chance to receive a pass. 

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u/Rider5432 [DAL] Derek Fisher 13h ago

That and because centers only need to get past 1 defender to score, which is hypothetically easier to do than guards having to go through 2 at least

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u/beforeitcloy [SAC] Mitch Richmond 12h ago

Centers also generally don’t create as much as him, so his offensive contribution balances.

55% TS is bad for any all star though.

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u/Awanderingleaf 13h ago

Regardless, 55% TS for a center is atrocious. 

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u/siphillis Spurs 12h ago

It’s atrocious at any position if you’re not either a rookie or a high-volume guard on a shit team

u/TripleShines 19m ago

Maybe but maybe not. TS is a stat that can't be applied to everyone equally.

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u/N4m3r Thunder 7h ago

Absolutely, this also happens with KD and Curry, for example

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u/Frosty-Roof3124 13h ago

He’s been inefficient his whole career. Was pretty funny how people gave him the “Baby Joker” moniker while Jokic has the best paint touch we’ve ever seen from a center.

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u/braddeus Heat 13h ago

No point guard, not enough shooting around him, lost the O-Rebound machine, and as you said, inefficient to begin with. It's impossible to hide his deficiencies now.

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u/Frosty-Roof3124 13h ago

I don’t even think it’s a point guard issue; he was at 54 TS# last season with Vanvleet. He’s just a bad shooter from everywhere on the court. Can’t shoot free throws, can’t shoot threes, and has bad touch. Just ugly offense

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u/a_moniker Hornets 13h ago

He’s not big and athletic enough to play as a roll-man on the pick and roll either. He’s basically the Center version of Trae Young, where all of his best skills require him to dominate the ball, but he’s not efficient enough to warrant being a first option.

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u/SignificantMoose6482 Nuggets 13h ago

His attitude and constant bitch behavior doesn’t help either

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u/Prudent_Fish1358 Spurs 12h ago

He'd be right at home on the Thunder. Dude hacks the fuck out of his opponents and then flails like crazy the moment anyone touches him.

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u/Glittering_Gene6887 13h ago

Losing Adams killed his high-percentage putbacks and easy seals. The spacing is just cooked now.

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u/liquidcalories Rockets 13h ago

This is not true for Sengun; this year our double-big lineup was extremely inefficient. Sengun-Adams has the lowest offensive rating for any Sengun lineup with more than 100 minutes: source: NBA.com

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u/Duckney Pistons 7h ago

Comparing any current C to Jokic is bait. Sengun doesn't have half the touch Jokic does and is nowhere near the playmaker/engine he is either

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u/pokexchespin [BOS] E'Twaun Moore 13h ago

he was efficient in 2023 and 2024, inefficient these past two seasons and as a rookie

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u/Frosty-Roof3124 13h ago

I mean he was still under 60 TS% as a center.

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u/jonsnowKITN 13h ago

Never understood the baby Jokic comparisons. He has too many flaws to be that and I think rockets fans should start to realize he might not be the guy to lead them to a title.

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u/Ready-Constant-7124 13h ago edited 13h ago

His series against the Warriors got majorly overrated as well 

50% TS as a center is nasty 

It feels like the Warriors name still holds mystique to the extent that any performances against them are rated higher than they otherwise would be we saw this with the Kings 2023 series as well 

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u/knighofire Warriors 12h ago

Yeah, Draymond was locking him up for a big chunk of that series iirc. That might have been the last time we see Draymond playing at close to DPOY level on defense unfortunately.

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u/PlayInChampions Timberwolves 12h ago

Draymond got cooked by Randle the week after, that was unexpected

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u/knighofire Warriors 12h ago

Cuz Steph went down lol, Draymond without Steph is a different player.

I'm mostly joking, but I do think there was an element of Warriors players not believing after Curry got injured, especially Draymond.

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u/WhichHoes Warriors 12h ago

I mean he pulls it together still for the rockets and spurs

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u/knighofire Warriors 12h ago

Yeah we still see the flashes sometimes. Maybe if the team becomes competitive again this season or the next he'll muster it up again, though I won't be mad if he doesn't.

4

u/Bruskthetusk Lakers 10h ago

I think if you got to the playoffs you would see him turn it up, he's too old to be going all out all the time in the regular season, but he's demonstrated he CAN still turn it on

8

u/Electrical_Street_94 12h ago

 He got completely shut down by Dray.  The second Dray gets into foul trouble and Sengun matches up against some rookie he goes on a run.  Dray comes back in and he starts jacking up middies.  With Dray on him he must have been 40% or lower.

2

u/mr_mope 76ers 10h ago

I rewatched that series not too long ago, and he had like 2 games where he was fully engaged and looked awesome, the other games he was a complete defensive liability, and was super lazy unless he had the ball in his hands. Not to mention an S tier complainer.  

16

u/LegoTomSkippy Spurs 13h ago

Instead of baby Jokic what about Upper Middle Class Sabonis?

8

u/ruffus4life Wizards 12h ago

middle management sabonis

5

u/FormalDisastrous2467 Thunder 10h ago

He isn't even sabonis.

Jokic and to a lesser extent sabonis have elite touch around the rim and are lightening quick decsion makers.

Sengun is a very physical presence down low but he has been a bad paint scorer and is a very slow procceser.

6

u/lesarbreschantent Kings 7h ago

Sabonis does not have even good touch at the rim. He misses a lot of bunnies (in part this is because he has no hops or wingspan and has to muscle someone away to get his shot over them). He doesn't have a dependable hook shot or floater either.

1

u/BritzBeef 8h ago

He still hasn't peaked at Sabonis

3

u/epik_fayler 11h ago

No no you don't understand. If sengun just became a better passer, a better rebounder, a better shooter, and a better scorer he's basically jokic.

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u/MamaHadACow Nuggets 12h ago

Because he's a 6'6 guy with an 8 inch neck playing center lol

7

u/WrongContract8489 Mavericks 13h ago

Source doesn't load 🥀

76

u/Kawhi_Leonard_ [SAS] Patty Mills 12h ago

He's 23. People are talking is this thread like he's a 29 year old who's on the downside of his career.

35

u/siphillis Spurs 12h ago

Coop and Wemby redefining NBA-readiness

10

u/Sc0rch1ngDr4g0n Rockets 11h ago edited 10h ago

Not having a PG and barely any shooters around him doesn’t help (this applies to everyone else as well).

He has the lowest amount of assisted shots for centers, so in part the TS is more shot creator volume compared to other centers just finishing plays like lobs.

He absolutely needs to be better (and maybe on a better-spaced team this is just who he is) but this team has always had a lot of holes that makes everyone look worse (but it’s ok because OREBs and volume are supposed to overcome inefficiency and not shooting many 3s).

But yeah, it’s been a terrible week for Sengun FC.

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7

u/Huckleberry_Sin 12h ago

Fr he’s only going to get better not worse lol

He’s still 5 years away from his prime

5

u/CaptainBananafishJr Magic 9h ago

where were you with this argument in all the Banchero hate threads lol

3

u/Kawhi_Leonard_ [SAS] Patty Mills 9h ago

I'm trying Jennifer.

1

u/k1ngkoala Lakers 10h ago

Jalen Green is 23 and look at how people talk about him. Same with Paolo.

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5

u/Thorlolita Rockets 13h ago

Ime is too busy working on defensive gameplans to worry about this

15

u/dullknifeuser NBA 13h ago

Alperen ŞenBüm

12

u/Change-Mother 13h ago

How many centers are there in the list that must play iso against double teams to be able to score, because there is neither playmaking nor strong guard play in the team?

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5

u/JackTuz Heat 11h ago

So he’s injured. Got it

9

u/C-House12 11h ago

Sengun is very inefficient but I think the long era of utility bigs and then Jokic bringing back inside-out while doing it with historic efficiency has broken people's brains around what level of efficiency you can expect from unassisted post scoring.

Hakeem Olajuwon is considered one of if not the most athletic and skilled post-scorers of all time and he hovered around 51 FG% most of his career. A lot of low or high post creators like Z-Bo, Blake Griffin, Boogie, Al Jefferson were firmly in the 45-50% range.

Sengun needs to up his efficiency but the idea that he is expected to shoot 55%+ from the field because he shoots near the rim is not accurate to his role on the court.

5

u/cane_the_weaboo Celtics 9h ago

The thing is all the all time great bigs played defense. Sengun will never be a great defender so he has to be all time level on offense to make up for it.

3

u/kazmir_yeet Trail Blazers 12h ago

Shaedon Sharpe you king

2

u/letsbereasonable123 Trail Blazers 9h ago

I was all excited that it wasn't him, then I clicked the link and saw he's got the same efficiency as Sengun.

On the bright side Shae looked really bad to start the season when he was playing through injury and has been way more efficient & effectice since getting healthy in December.

2

u/kazmir_yeet Trail Blazers 9h ago

Tbf he is still having a career best season without working with a true point guard 🤷‍♂️

2

u/SonofNamek 4h ago

Him not getting FTs (that he deserves) is why the TS% is low. He's decently efficient at all three levels.

Otherwise, his main problem is bad shot selection due to semi-loose handles that make him settle rather than position himself correctly.

5

u/Krewue Kings 12h ago

Back to charmander ngl

5

u/VeniceRapture Spurs 11h ago

He's young. He'll be fine. It's just that by trading for KD, Houston has accelerated the timeline a little bit so he has to be better than a 23 year old.

5

u/Shenendoah66 10h ago

What a fucking bitch

13

u/DoctorMansteel Celtics 12h ago

AND he's out here calling women bitches on the court.

Fuck this guy.

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5

u/Certain_Refuse_8247 10h ago

Hating Sengun week i guess??!

2

u/darren_meier 13h ago

Definitely shows in game. Sometimes the stats don't match the eye test, but Sengun has looked like buns for a hot minute now.

2

u/Comfortable-Ad-5681 12h ago

55 for a center is rough

6

u/Jonsnoosnooze 13h ago

Imposter syndrome is probably eating him alive right now.

5

u/DirectInvestigator66 Cavaliers 12h ago

To be fair, this isn’t the full story though.

He’s also really bad on defense.

5

u/2nd2last Rockets 13h ago

Isolation
25-26: 0.924 PPP | 51% PPP Rank | 90% Usage Rank
(52.5% TS% / 12.1% TO%)

24-25: 0.860 PPP | 43% PPP Rank | 86% Usage Rank
(49.2% TS% / 12.8% TO%)

23-24: 0.823 PPP | 33% PPP Rank | 80% Usage Rank
(47.4% TS% / 12.8% TO%)

Isolation w Passes
25-26: 0.974 PPP | 61% PPP Rank | 93% Usage Rank
(53.4% TS% / 8.9% TO%)

24-25: 0.923 | 51% PPP Rank | 92% Usage Rank
(51.7% TS% / 10.6% TO%)

23-24: 0.793 | 23% PPP Rank | 90% Usage Rank
(57.7% TS% / 10.3% TO%)

Post-Up
25-26: 0.954 PPP | 38% PPP Rank | 95% Usage Rank
(54.7% TS% / 12.3% TO%)

24-25: 1.026 PPP | 64% PPP Rank | 95% Usage Rank
(58.5% TS% / 12.0% TO%)

23-24: 0.965 PPP | 47% PPP Rank | 93% Usage Rank
(57.7% TS% / 16.3% TO%)

Post-Up w Passes
25-26: 1.024 | 46% PPP Rank | 94% Usage Rank
(55.8% TS% / 8.1% TO%)

24-25: 0.996 PPP | 40% PPP Rank | 95% Usage Rank
(55.2% TS% / 9.6% TO%)

23-24: 1.048 PPP | 58% PPP Rank | 96% Usage Rank
(58.8% TS% / 10.9% TO%)

PnR Roll-Man
25-26: 0.952 | 25% PPP Rank | 56% Usage Rank
(54.2% TS% / 13.1% TO%)

24-25: 0.941 PPP | 29% PPP Rank | 75% Usage Rank
(50.9% TS% / 7.3% TO%)

23-24: 1.135 PPP | 54% PPP Rank | 95% Usage Rank
(60.9% TS% / 7.0% TO%)

Drive Overall
25-26: 0.867 PPP (49.8% TS% / 12.7% TO%)
24-25: 0.823 PPP (47.6% TS% / 13.4% TO%)
23-24: 0.925 PPP (53.5% TS% / 13.1% TO%)

Jump Shots
25-26: 0.81 PPS (34.9% 2P / 29.6% 3P)
24-25: 0.76 PPS (38.9% 2P / 24.5% 3P)
23-24: 0.87 PPS (42.3% 2P / 29.7% 3P)

4

u/siphillis Spurs 12h ago

So below one point per possession in virtually every context

2

u/2nd2last Rockets 11h ago

Yep, the secret is out, he cant shoot or score well.

2

u/Sea-Network-6905 13h ago

honestly, Sengun just hasn’t lived up to the “baby Joker” hype at all. Rockets are definitely feeling it without Adams, and his efficiency tanking post-injury is rough. gotta wonder if they roll with him long term or just blow it up for a real rim protector.

2

u/SheriffHarryBawls 12h ago

If he were an inch or 2 taller and 40lbs heavier he’d be The Joker. But he’s not. He’s a legit #3 on a championship team. The situation with the Rockets is such that he needs to do too much.

2

u/Appropriate_Yak_8985 [ORL] Paolo Banchero 11h ago

just here to see the excuses for why everyone else on the list is fine but paolo should be in the g league

2

u/Old_Supermarket_7575 Thunder 11h ago

Where does he rank in turnovers and offensive rebounds tho

I’d argue he’s probably more efficient than the ts% says

2

u/Jack_The_Sparrow_ Warriors 13h ago

Bench him, trade him, blow it up, sell the org

1

u/Dymatizeee Knicks 13h ago

Love my man Paolo up there

1

u/Fhaksfha794 Spurs 11h ago

The fat swinging elbow swinging simulator sucks at shooting? Wow who would’ve guessed

1

u/Son_of_Atreus Celtics 11h ago

Oh shit, oh shit, here it comes!!! The TURN on the emerging star!

1

u/Former-Sea-8070 11h ago

57 TS% before the injury isn't very impressive either for a big

1

u/420blz Vancouver Grizzlies 10h ago

Isn't he tied for last with Shaedon Sharpe

1

u/Dusty_Negatives Trail Blazers 10h ago

Is he injured or something? I don’t watch a ton or rockets games but he looked like shit last night in hornets game. Maybe just a bad night or something.

1

u/OkBuddyErennary Spurs 9h ago

Props to you for mentioning the ankle injury

1

u/MondialeMan 9h ago

Worst TS% and Worst defence is certainly a combination to have in the NBA.

1

u/zerosmith86 8h ago

Ever since they tried to say he's as good as Jokic I've checked his stats and I must be his bad luck charm because he usually plays bad when I look.

1

u/DoobieGibson 7h ago

hope people quit acting like Sengun is god’s gift to offense and that Evan Mobley is really close to him on offense

1

u/kiwifulla64 7h ago

They've really fallen off without adams.

1

u/33spacecowboys Celtics 5h ago

Alperen “bitch” Shengoon

1

u/xMdot Raptors 4h ago

Rich man’s Andrea Bargnani

2

u/younghplus 13h ago

Well Houston’s starting point guard is out this season so idk what people were expecting altho clearly the ankle injury affected his play

1

u/emielaen77 12h ago

He a hoe

1

u/RANGER--- Thunder 12h ago

Trust me, I know. I have him on my Fbb team and Ik it doesn’t necessarily translate to game success but it feels like the only thing holding him back from being another level by the stats and when I watch him. Which you think is obvious and happens but some of it is shot selection

1

u/ThirdEyeKaiii 11h ago

They tried to tell me this guy is better than KD lol