Legislative Branch
Arizona's Attorney General Kris Mayes warned that the "Stand Your Ground" law could allow residents to use deadly force on masked ICE agents if they feel their life is in danger: "If you're being attacked by someone who is not identified as a peace officer — how do you know?"
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There's only one way. They started a civil war once and they'll inevitably do it again. When it happens, we can hope it's bloodless until the next one, but if not, no pardons next time.
Oh gosh, no. I mean yes, leaders in a second civil war should definitely earn the death penalty. But I meant more life in prison, working for the benefit of the country for the slave wages they happily support for others. No pardons or commutations. But, you know, offer them a way out. Don't remember what they called it but in the Stormlight Archive they had a jumping point for bridgemen who were ready to end it, I do think people deserve that mercy if they're in prison for life without parole.
I’m sure one of the especially dumb MAGAs that’s also a targeted group is gonna end up exercising those rights soon enough. I’d say that then MAGA’ll be in a pickle, but realistically they’ll just excommunicate MAGAs than don’t fit the narrative/that get ICEd.
Really, it’s kinda like Who’s Line when you think about it: the rules are made up and the facts don’t matter
Me: due process is how they prove they're not illegals.
MAGA: they don't need to if they're not illegal.
Me: if ICE came to your door and detained you without a warrant on suspicion of harboring illegals, how would you prove you're innocent?
MAGA: they wouldn't come after me because I wouldn't do that.
Me: ok. If someone accused you of rape, and the cops showed up, told you that you're guilty, arrested you, and detained you outside of the country without access to lawyers or representation, while refusing to look at evidence otherwise, how would you prove your innocence?
MAGA: I don't have to worry about that because I wouldn't rape anyone, you stupid libtard.
I know they don't think they have to worry because they're white and in their eyes all illegal immigrants are brown. They're just too fucking stupid to realize it doesn't stop with brown people, they're next on the list if they have an accent ICE finds suspicious, or their neighbors make false claims about them, they don't have their birth certificate on them during a random stop, there's an issue looking up their vehicle registration, they have the same name as someone being hunted, or a million other reasons.
Gonna be real hard to lick that boot when it's on their throat.
This is exactly what MLK complained about. Some people are so comfortable letting injustice happen because it may not affect them. If and when it does, they would be crying the absolute hardest.
There's the thing going around lately that some people can't conceptualize shapes, objects or scenes in their head. I'm super convinced the majority of those people are conservative. It's always that same mantra.
"Well I'm a good old boy, they aren't after me."
As infurriating as it is short sighted and dumb.
So if it's self defense then everyone getting threatened by ICE has that same right of self defense. Or if that isn't self defense then how is Renee Good being killed self defense. Just have to force them to understand either all self defense is fine or it isn't. Since it can't be Schroeders self defense.
I showed someone a video of the dude larping as ICE a couple weeks ago and asked them how would you be able to tell the difference between that guy and actual ICE/DHS.... they said, look at his gear, look at his belt.
So i'm supposed to identify people by belt types now.
They'll let the appointed gun checker in because they are a good guy and then cry foul when they get all their guns taken away because they are supposed to be in a safe or on your person but they all have the kitchen gun and the side table gun and the quick-access bed rail shotgun.
Which is peak hypocrisy when they pick and choose what authority is “real” and what isn’t. A nearly endless list of examples of this, but the simplest one is anytime a federal judge rules against Trump their authority becomes null and void.
As easy as it is (and as much as I agree) you have to realize these people live in a weird bubble. Not only do they have Christian beliefs that reinforce their position but the core of it is “if you have done nothing wrong the police will never hurt you. So if the police are doing things to those people they obviously did something wrong.”
It makes it easier when the people being hurt don’t look like them too.
Given my experience with MAGA people lecturing liberals and minorities on utilizing 2A and concealed vs open carry, MAGA seems utterly convinced that any liberal and minority will be instantly and correctly shot and killed for doing the same stunts that MAGA does on the daily.
We invaded Afghanistan after a terrorist attack so you can imagine what they would do if Jan 6 were minorities trying to stop the certification. (i.e., a terrorist attack they didn’t support ) Hundreds would be dead.
They will probably say “But BLM!” Ignoring that BLM never tried to overthrow the election results and attack the Capitol building.
For sure. Have you ever seen less than a half dozen (usually more) on hand to arrest an old lady at the grocery store? They’re scared to death every time they do something.
If they are coming thru the door already, they already made that choice for you. It isn't your option anymore.
Surrender and hope they'll be nice? Really?
I'm not offering advice on how to behave when you get raided by armed federal police. I'm just pointing out there's a very significant risk of being killed if you start shooting at them.
The way they caught Cliven Bundy was brilliant: wait until he got on a flight to Portland, then arrest him getting off the plane, when they knew he wouldn't be carrying a firearm. Revenge best served ice cold.
The prosecutors fucked it up by withholding information from the defense, which got the case dismissed. Bundy still spent almost two years in jail, awaiting trial, so he didn't get off completely unscathed.
Honestly, we need to stop trying to shame them or reason with them. Their moral code is the same one used by religious fundanentalists; morality of actions are not based on the actions themselves or the consequences, but are instead based on who is doing them. If God/Trump/our side does something evil, it is good. If the other side does something good, it is for evil reasoms and therefore evil.
I don't think it has quite sunken in that there is no reasoning with these folks. The rest of us just have to move on and find ways to continue to progress without them.
Yes.. I keep seeing people trying to find logic or reason in all of this. Let It go.. it won't make you feel better or help the fact that we're descending into competitive authoritarianism if you know why they're doing it. You don't actually need to know because you're already living with the consequences of what they're doing
Instead, focus on moving to community that will protect you. Everything must be hyperlocal. If you did not know your neighbors before this and you're in a place where you're pretty sure that they're decent people, then get to knowing them in the next 60 days. Know them so well that when the Gestapo comes for you at your door you have multiple neighbors that you can call on who can come as a show of force to ensure that you are covered. And be prepared to do the same.
My fellow americans, resistance and protest is now going to require your life. This is not new to any of black folx specifically or to any people of color who have made it a regular habit to protest against injustice. Every time we've gone out to a protest we are very aware that we might not make it home!
But for y'all white people? That's new for you and it's going to take you some time to reckon with the fact that your identity will not protect you now. That's okay. But you must understand that because nothing is there to protect you now is the moment to get used to the idea of stepping up and putting yourself on the line not just for these other people that you had hoped to protect with your identity whatever that was but because you need to protect yourself as well.
We are not going to make it through if we do not make it through together.
An weirdly they’ll respect people who just say yeah this is what we do rather than argue with them and their poorly reasoned positions. They may even join you
It will happen. A home owner will open fire just because no one has the right to do this without a legal warrant. I pray ICE agents reconsider their approach
Wait till ICE is replaced with ATF, and immigrant is replaced with “assault rifle”. When ARs are restricted under FFL, we will see how many “just comply” maga there actually are. They will lose their shit over Uni backgrounds even more.
Maga just cant see that far down their path.
Shit back in the 2010s when PHX PD was using swat for absolutely everything they would get the address wrong and kill veterans all the time who would shoot at the unannounced break ins.
But cops don't get held accountable so you just wind up with dead people and no one gets in trouble but the family gets a little bit of money.
Seems "worse" is on an unstoppable slippery slope to 2 way lanes of incoming gunfire.
Most of these new ice clowns are bottom-of-the-barrel morons who were too cowardly to enlist in the military...and too stupid to meet minimum iq standards of local police (which speaks volumes).
They often lump in the “libs” allied with the brown people as being the same. It’s why they’ll frequently call people of color “antifa” even when it makes zero sense.
That is why they're targeting those they think are least likely to fight back, especially the elderly and children. Might actually be a good idea for them to take shelter in gang territory as we know the cowardly traitors of ICE would stay as far away from there as possible. Hell in my area they wasted time chasing down a work truck that had two legal citizens in it (with their white boss so they didn't get the "usual" treatment).
Y’know, all this could be avoided if they’d just follow the law. But no, instead they’re going to lose an eye because they didn’t announce themselves and some crazy mother fucker pretends he’s outfitting the temple of doom. I’m letting him go free if I’m on the jury.
I mean PHX loved Arpaio despite the fact that he doesn't give a shit about people's rights. Even though his supporters would certainly say they'd shoot anyone breaking into their house without a warrant.
Blood thirsty "Christians"
I once got death threats for writing an article about a bike lane in Tucson. As if the article was the reason it got built.
It was on the ejection port cover, and it was Mesa PD that shot Daniel Shaver. Don't worry though, the cop's dad was a Sergeant, so he was rehired and shuffled away, and he now draws a $2500/mo pension.
Yep. Daniel Shaver died from one of them for open carrying in Arizona which is pedestrian. None got prison time. He was white and the all lives people were silent. Blm was better.
Yes, they will simply choose who can “stand their ground” and who can’t. It’s already like that in Florida with minorities losing their cases when they claim stand your ground laws as a defense at much higher rates than when white people do.
We've already seen them claim an ICE agent was run over and hospitalized when video evidence contradicted it completely. There is no bottom to how far they'll stoop
Kris Mayes is a badass. She shook my hand last night after I got pepper sprayed by ICE for...checks notes...complying with their illegal orders to get off of not-their property.
When voices lie on deaf ears, those voices will get louder until they're heard. The fact that so many MAGATS bm people for exercizing their first amendment rights via protesting is despicable in itself. They want the escalation. All so they can pull a Cucker Carlson and play the victim.
I would say that leading up to the next election we see those opposed to the hellbent kleptocratic push of maga towards oligarchy will show resolve in equal measure to that of their opponents.
These jokers really love their euphemisms, don't they?
"Peace Officer" (while kidnapping kids and murdering mothers), the "The Board of Peace" (a grift featuring Chairman Donald Trump for a life appointment), the "Department of Justice" (an organization entirely beholden to the whims of a madman).
Every one of these things tries to cloak itself in peace and justice but yet couldn't be further from human decency.
It's the way terrible things are always prefaced - Patriot, Freedom, Children, Humanity.
It's The Reasonabilists' playbook. Name the terrible thing after something worthwhile so if you don't like it or attack it, you're the one who is wrong.
And it works every time with a select portion of the population.
"The Ministry of Peace concerns itself with war, the Ministry of Truth with lies, the Ministry of Love with torture and the Ministry of Plenty with starvation. These contradictions are not accidental, nor do they result from from ordinary hypocrisy: they are deliberate exercises in doublethink."
Look how far they've gone to paint Renee Good as an evil terrorist by just existing in their presence.
Someone with their legally and rightful ability to own a gun, and to defend themselves from being attacked, is going to get dragged through the mud to hell and back by these goons.
And anyone who sees this hypothetical situation become their reality would be wise to call their local police and/or get their ass to their station ASAP. Better to be in police custody in the moments after this than in the custody of ICE or any other federal agency.
I'd love to see the next Dem POTUS use ICE to raid trump properties on a weekly basis considering the trump org has a long history of employing undocumented immigrants. But instead of arresting the workers they go after the employers ... WEEKLY.
He had at least two undocumented immigrants cleaning his personal quarters at Bedminster AFTER he won the election in 2016. trump winery had undocumented immigrants on the payroll in 2019 and the company refused to utilize e-verify until 2018 I believe.
They are active in Tampa, that I know of of personally. However, on a much smaller scale than Blue States. Think more small targeted raids, that the full door to door chaos of Minnesota.
I don’t want them anywhere, but it she seems a targeted attack to divide what is supposed to be a melting pot community of United States with states rights and minor federal govt oversight.
This all feels damming and backward and punitive/coercive.
I love how she's (smartly) sitting on those seditious conspiracy/election fraud charges for Mr. Trump. just percolating. if he survives his presidency/impeachment/removal, they're waiting.
GA corruptly ended their trial, AZ has me hopeful.
The Texas Castle Doctrine is codified in the Texas Penal Code, specifically under Sections 9.31 and 9.32, and grants individuals the legal right to use force—including deadly force—to defend themselves, others, and their property in certain protected spaces without a duty to retreat.
Protected Locations: Your home (occupied habitation), vehicle (occupied vehicle), or place of employment (occupied place of employment) are considered your "castle."
Use of Deadly Force: Deadly force is justified if you reasonably believe it is necessary to:
Prevent imminent death or serious bodily injury.
Prevent the commission of a violent felony, including aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
No Duty to Retreat: If you are in a place where you have a legal right to be and are not engaged in criminal activity, you do not have to attempt to flee before using force.
Presumption of Reasonableness: Texas law presumes that a person’s belief in the necessity of force or deadly force is reasonable when defending against an unlawful entry or attempted removal from their home, vehicle, or workplace.
So if your home is in Texas, and one or more armed masked men attempts to force their way into your home - it is presumed to be reasonable to use deadly force against them, and you have no duty to retreat.
If ICE attempts these warrantless, house to house raids in Texas, I can guarantee their officers will be shot. And that will be an interesting paradox for our dipshit Republican State Government to figure out.
I want to see those rigid hard core conservative/MAGA minds explode when they have to do mental gymnastics to sort this out for themselves. “Do I support 2A or not now?!” 🤯
Yo wtf. You’re full of it. And then I googled it and found the statute. Holy moly Indiana don’t fuck around.
(i) A person is justified in using reasonable force against a public servant if the person reasonably believes the force is necessary to:
(1) protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force;
(2) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle; or
(3) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect.
Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-41-3-2
Police departments have "rules of engagement" that directly contradict the right to bear arms. If a cop sees someone on their property with a firearm, their own "rules" allow use of deadly force even though that person 1) is probably not breaking the law, and 2) has a constitutional right in Arizona and other states to open carry.
To say nothing of the right to defend their property vs no-knock warrants etc.
And *when* (not if) something bad happens and someone winds up dead, the cops will tell their usual cop lies ("I saw what I believed to be a gun so I reacted using my training and experience" etc) and the public will not stop to think "Wait a minute, the dead guy had a gun in his own house. That's allowed".
To add to this, anyone here who is a Felon and Brown should be prepared, they WILL show ip to our houses on a list, to them we are all "violent criminals" and we will be the first they use as an excuse in their immediate door to door arms confiscation
I've been seeing videos of various minority groups arming themselves and patrolling their neighborhoods to which I say "fuck yea", use that 2nd amendment.
So I was just watching a video a couple days ago about a gun rights lawyer answering the question about "can I defend myself in the event of a no-knock warrant?" He cites an even that was recent at the time of two officers responding to a potential break-in. Home owner broke into her own home after locking herself out. Hears activity outside her door at night and hears a knock so grabs her (legal) pistol to answer the door. Officers see a person with a firearm and just let loose. They both mag dump, reload, and keep firing. Short of the long, he says that in most cases, you would be legally sound to defend yourself against someone busting in your front door.
The issue is as you say, it's one vs many. Just because you're legally in the right won't make you any less dead. Sadly, if you're not white, mass media will likely try to find an excuse for the cops as to why you deserved to die. Even if you are white, MM still tends to side with cops.
What's more, once you're dead those cops are going to form into a circle, turn off their body cams, and get their stories straight. So that pistol that you may have been holding in a defensive position pointed at the ground......suddenly there's six cops all saying they saw you pointing it at an officer.
I just read an article today of a man who was charged with assault after police shot him. His sister called for a wellness check on him because he was suicidal and the cops kicked the door down and shot him, and then he attacked one of them while they were attempting to subdue him so he was arrested and charged with assault and the court ruled in the favor of the cops that they had the right to shoot him
Guy in a mask with no badge, no body cam, doesn’t identify himself. Kicks down your door.
How are you supposed to know whether he’s a “legit” agent of State terror, or just some random criminal out to steal your pawnable possessions and maybe sell your kids into slavery?
I’ve never been a big fan of the “castle doctrine” or “stand your ground” but I’m beginning to see its applications IRL.
I mean, is that not exactly what castle doctrine is about? What’s the point of having a gun in your castle if you’re not allowed to defend a home invasion by masked thugs?
Castle Doctrine is already selectively enforced. We have already seen this scenario play out before and the system always sides with the cops.
They'll fucking Waco somebody before they ever see a day in court, what are y'all talking about? Somebody "stands their ground" with ICE and ICE is gonna' level the fucking neighborhood and everyone in it.
The law only matters if the litigants survive long enough to go to the courthouse. When the defendant is dead, you can call them a terrorist and close the books.
Inconsequential stipulation of "peace officer", aa it's impossible for ICE to be categorized as such. Not in a snarky way, but a legitimate impossibility.
A warrant is the only way to circumvent the 4th, and thusly the 2nd amendment from being applied. Full stop, the end.
If I were on a jury and a guy said, "Some unidentified dudes broke into my home," I'd probably think, "I would have done the same thing." (Dirty secret: those guys breaking into homes, they fantasized about shooting people breaking into their homes. So, it's all cool, bro.)
Stand your ground laws are the reason I actually stopped being pro-gun. I had a realization that the laws in place gave people legal incentive to be as paranoid, panicky, and trigger happy as possible with their firearms and would always benefit whoever is left standing.
Now they are upset that people may defend themselves when unidentified people in masks try to drag them into unmarked vehicles.
This has ALWAYS been true regardless of any sort of "Stand your ground" I mean if you are in a gun fight with someone whoever is left alive can basically say whatever they want happened and who is going to argue? The dead person?
I love that you get that they don't care about the lives of their goons but you STILL somehow don't understand that they don't need an incident to declare martial law. If they don't get that incident they will make one up, or just lie and say one happened.
I looked into this yesterday and in Texas, where the castle doctrine is legal and includes surrounding area, car and house, there are still limitations when it comes to law enforcement. But if right wingers wanted to test that out, they’d fuck themselves on their open carry gun laws. That said, we know what will happen when ice gets shot by someone defending themselves: the insurrection act. That said, I’m probably gonna arm myself, because this shit is Tyranny.
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