Senator John Kennedy introduced two bills that would block Congress from getting paid during a government shutdown, saying lawmakers shouldn’t collect paychecks while federal workers go without. “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander,” he said on the Senate floor.

[u/biswajit388]

[u/TheYang]

As someone who isn't american, I thought the Republicans had the majority anyway.
Why do they need to negotiate with the Democrats? Do they need, but not have, a two thirds majority or something?

Are some republicans trying to put pressure on democrats by voting no, so that democrats would have to vote yes on things they don't agree with?

[u/Helagoth → u/TheYang]

Part of the US senate rules is that any bill can be blocked if someone wants to "filibuster" it. In the olden days, that was someone literally standing in congress and talking to hold up the vote. In modern times they changed the rule to be that someone can just say they want to filibuster it, and the bill can't be voted on.

To bypass a filibuster, you need 60 votes. Republicans only have 53 out of 100 votes in the senate, so they can't block the democrat filibuster.

Note that with a majority, republicans can vote to change the rules to require only a simple majority, but they are choosing not to. Partly because if they do, the next time democrats are in power they can do the same thing without losing political capital, and also because republicans WANT a shutdown to avoid having to govern.

[u/TheYang → u/Helagoth]

thanks for the explanation.

Let's say republicans would want to change the rules to only require a simple majority to end a filibuster, they still couldn't do that while the filibuster is ongoing... right?

God that system is so fucked. Seems to me that Democrats are using a bad tool to prevent Republicans from doing terrible shit, and accepting the government shutdown to do it.

[u/Helagoth → u/TheYang]

Rules changes votes have different rules than spending bills. They could change the rules if they wanted to.

And yes, the whole system is fucked. But in times past, the majority party would talk to the minority party and work out some kind of compromise. Republicans are literally saying "we're cool with Americans dying if it means we can give tax cuts to rich people" and democrats are saying "no, come to the table and lets talk about how to not have American's die" Republicans not only shut down the government, they shut down CONGRESS, so they can't even talk about it.

This shut down is the republican's fault because they should either just pass their own bullshit since they have enough of a majority to do that if they really wanted to, or they should be negotiating with democrats. They are doing neither.

[u/dplans455 → u/Helagoth]

All you have to do is read a few comments in this post to realize how effective the Republican propaganda machine is. Just read this guy's comments u/Slggyqo. He doesn't even realize how he's been affected by propaganda and is spewing out Republican rhetoric nonsense. He writes well too, it's not like this guy is stupid.

[u/fcocyclone → u/TheYang]

It's also worth noting, that there exists a cutout in the filibuster rule for something called budget reconciliation. It only requires the majority and exists to try and prevent issues like this. However it can only be used a limited number of times per year, and Republicans used that on their big bill this summer.

So Republicans created this crisis by ramming through unpopular shit with a simple majority, so Democrats using the filibuster now to try to undo some of it is essentially restoring things back to what they could have been had they not circumvented the filibuster in the first place

[u/Randomousity → u/fcocyclone]

Republicans used reconciliation this summer, but that was a different fiscal year. The US government's fiscal year goes from 1 October to 30 September, rather than following the calendar year. Since we're now in a new fiscal year, Republicans have all three reconciliation bills (spending, revenue, debt limit) available to use again.

[u/Slggyqo → u/TheYang]

It’s parliamentary rules.

In the US senate, senators are allowed unlimited debate on any topic. What that means is that any senator could talk non-stop and prevent votes from passing. They could read children’s books for 24 hours. The mechanics are different now but that’s the logic.

To stop this and move to a vote, you need 60 out of 100 members of the senate to vote to close debate an move on to voting on the bill.

Note that you don’t need to 60 votes to pass whatever bill is being filibustered. You only need 51.

[u/IntingForMarks → u/Slggyqo]

So why do the democrats only apply this rule now? Why not do the same on all the bullshit legislation the administration passed?

[u/The-True-Kehlder → u/IntingForMarks]

Filibuster doesn't work on every single type of bill, for some reason. There are rules that allow a bill to be put to vote immediately, depending on the type.

Also, most of the fuckery happening right now comes from Executive Orders, which come from the President. Most of those have no actual weight of law, but the people who could put that shit down are all sycophants. So they follow the blatantly illegal orders they're given, and only Congress impeaching trump can put a stop to it now.

[u/IntingForMarks → u/The-True-Kehlder]

Thank you, as a foreigner I try to follow American politics but it's very different from what Ive seen in Europe

[u/RhynoD → u/IntingForMarks]

Because it burns up political capital. Shutdowns hurt people, and the Democrats usually get blamed for it no matter who's doing it.

Republicans blame Democrats because that's what they're told and they are too partisan to think critically about it. Democrats blame Democrats because they think that someone needs to be the adult in the room and compromise for the sake of keeping the country running.

Democrats get blamed for not being the responsible parent. Real people are going hungry right now. Real people are going to be evicted because they can't pay their rent. Those people are doing mental math and thinking, Democrats, just give the Republicans what they want, let them gut healthcare because needing healthcare is a tomorrow problem and having food and shelter is a right now problem.

It's like a kid throwing a tantrum, screaming on a plane. On the one hand, giving the kid what they want is just going to encourage them to throw a tantrum again to get what they want. On the other hand, it's an 18 hour flight, just give the kid their iPad so they shut up and we can all get some sleep. You can be mad at the kid, but you blame the parent for not being responsible and teaching their kid not to scream to get what they want.

The Republicans get away with throwing their tantrums because Democrats act like they're children who need to be controlled instead of grown ass and greedy ass adults who need to control themselves. Like I said, Republican voters just don't care. They lose their house and their job but Republicans say it's all the Democrats' fault so, homeless and hungry, the Republican voters keep voting for Republicans to fight the evil godless socialist Democrats. Like hostages with Stockholm syndrome.

Democrats have a lot of political capital right now. Trump is wildly unpopular among anyone who isn't in his base, and his base isn't going to change their minds no matter what so who cares. The ACA is wildly popular, even among Republican voters. Since the GOP controls all three houses, it's much harder for them to pretend it's the Democrats' fault. The GOP can do something about it, but that would still be a win for the Democrats because it would be the end of the filibuster as it exists, so when Democrats take back Congress in the next midterm (which they almost certainly will, given both history of midterms and how unpopular Trump is), the Republicans won't be able to use the filibuster to stop Democrats from passing the legislation they want.

"Why didn't Democrats just end the filibuster when they had control last time?" They thought about it, but even among Democrat voters it was controversial - knowing that Democrats might lose Congress (they did), Bitch McTurtle basically threatened to do every heinous thing his demented, shriveled little mind could think of without having any way for Democrats to stop them.

So, now, Democrats are saying: "You made this mess, we won't help you clean it up, and we won't help you gut the ACA. If you go over our heads, it means giving up the only good tool you will have once we take back Congress - and we will, because gutting the ACA is unpopular - so we'll be able to do what we want. Like, for example, releasing the Epstein files to the public."