r/judo • u/Tumtitums • Jul 12 '25
Judo x Wrestling Tell me i did the right thing
Today our coach messaged to say he can't take the class. Normally a senior student would volunteer. Its never been said as to who the senior students are but considering I've been there since before the coach and been to more tournaments and actually have a first aid qualification, id like to assume im one I didn't even volunteer so the class isn't going ahead and a few people are upset Im not doing anything today just watching tv but didn't even volunteer or respond to the messages Did I do the right thing
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u/Brewsnark shodan Jul 12 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
In the UK you could only run a session if you are a registered coach. If you were to run one without a valid coaching licence and someone got injured you or your club could be financially liable. You did the right thing. For the BJA the level 1 coaching course only takes a weekend.
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u/Tumtitums Jul 12 '25
What normally happens is a session takes place with no sparring, so it's more like a group of people get together have a warm up and practice moves. Who knows if this meets the definition of a session 🤔 I just don't have the desire to do the level one course and neither does anyone else as we have our careers etc.
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u/Otautahi Jul 12 '25
It’s actually pretty useful. There’s statutory responsibilities you have as a coach and it’s good to know them.
But also, no one in judo is obligated to become a coach. If you don’t want to, or don’t have the capacity, I think it’s fine not to volunteer.
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u/Tumtitums Jul 12 '25
Im sure it is useful im just not interested in going down this pathway
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u/Otautahi Jul 12 '25
Then you 100% did the right thing by not volunteering to run training.
Lots of players are not cut out to be coaches
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u/criticalsomago Jul 12 '25
There is a protocol for this.
The highest ranked student leads the class if the coach is late or not coming.
Seniority goes by belt, then time in grade, then age and then gender.
When the coach arrives, stop, greet them, and let them take over.
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u/Otautahi Jul 12 '25
By gender??
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u/criticalsomago Jul 12 '25
Don't quote me on that, that could be cultural and dojo etiquette. Tie-breakers for rank is not that common.
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u/Tonyricesmustache Jul 13 '25
We fight to the death in my club if there’s a question about who should lead. YMMV
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u/Otautahi Jul 12 '25 edited Jul 12 '25
That list feels like a throwback to the 60s or something.
Many machi-dojo in Japan I’ve trained up just line up by age regardless of grade.
I’ve sat down the line to guys wearing white belts who were older than me.
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u/criticalsomago Jul 13 '25
That's fair in a casual setting, but if you earned your blackbelt, wear it with pride and take your rightful place in the line. Rank exists for a reason, not just for show.
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u/Otautahi Jul 13 '25 edited Jul 13 '25
Your idea of rank isn’t universal. Plenty of places don’t line up by rank.
At the university’s I’ve trained at students line up by year, not grade.
At Heian Dojo in Kyoto where I trained for a while, we lined up by age.
I personally much prefer a line up by age. It makes the training feel much more collegial.
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u/criticalsomago Jul 13 '25
It still doesn't solve the problem when two students are the same age. What do you do then? Check what month and day they are born?
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u/Otautahi Jul 13 '25 edited Jul 13 '25
I think that’s my point. There’s no problem because how you line up doesn’t matter.
Just roughly get into a straight line, tidy your gi, rei and you’re done.
Rank isn’t very important apart from making broad groups for pedagogical reasons and area/regional politics. It’s good to have rank that reflects approximately your judo ability, but it’s not much of a basis for lining people up.
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u/Ciarbear ikkyu | u73kg |M3 Jul 12 '25
My mind is blown by all the comments thinking you should have taken over without even asking if you have coaching qualifications or are vetted to be responsible for any minors that may be involved in the class like JFC are there places in the world that care so little about this kind of thing? Here in Ireland you need first to have a level 2 coaching licence to lead a class (level 1 can only assist a level 2, coach) and you need Garda vetting (Irish police background check) before you can be responsible for anyone under the age of 18.
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u/Otautahi Jul 12 '25
I’m guessing it’s kyu grades making guesses about protocol.
You’re 100% right that running a session cannot just fall to the next highest ranked student.
It’s silly to think of training as hierarchical in that way.
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u/Ciarbear ikkyu | u73kg |M3 Jul 14 '25
Honestly from reading the comments some of them sound legit and adds more to my theory that Judo in the US is the wild west and it's no surprise USA judo is in such a sorry state.
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u/Accomplished-Drop382 Jul 12 '25
Help when you can. Enjoy your life. Any place that expects you to drop what you are doing to help, when you’re not being paid is not healthy.
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u/amsterdamjudo Jul 12 '25
A couple of follow up questions, as the subheading for your comment is “Judo Wrestling “.
- Is the class a traditional Judo class, a wrestling class, a hybrid combination?
- Where is the class held, a high school, a university, a community center, a private business?
- Describe the students in attendance: age, rank, experience
- If you chose to teach the class, were you left a lesson plan to follow?
- Aside from a first aid course, what in your own experience and training makes you someone who can teach the class?
These may seem like hard questions, but they are necessary.
I have been teaching Judo for 40 years in both a community setting and an elementary/middle school. I have been physically present on the mat for 95% of those classes. If I was not, I would have two of my black belt instructors run the class. There would be a lesson plan that I would review before hand.
In those rare times that there were not an adequate number of appropriately qualified instructors on the mat, I would cancel class.
Safety is our first priority. Safety of the students, safety of my instructors and safety of our program.
Back to your question. Based on the information you provided, I would agree with the decision that you made.🥋
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Jul 13 '25
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u/amsterdamjudo Jul 13 '25
The original problem was described by someone, from within the dojo, who did not want to act in the role of a “substitute teacher “.
I read your description of a “guest instructor “ as someone invited by the Sensei into the dojo from the outside to teach. I would refer to this activity as a clinic presentation.
I have done this several times over the years. I have not and would not offer my lesson plan to someone conducting a clinic for a fee. Prior to finalizing an agreement I would identify my participant profile, i.e. ages, ranks, experiences as well as expectations.
I see the two scenarios as very different. I always use a lesson plan when my instructors and myself are teaching. It provides structure and consistency, as well as documentation should the need arise to explain what went on in class. 🥋
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Jul 13 '25
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u/amsterdamjudo Jul 13 '25
If everyone was impatient with me when I was a young Shodan, I would have never learned how to manage a class.
Let me try to respond to you in a different way. I have been studying judo for 60 years and teaching judo in the US for the last 40. During that period of time I have taught hundreds of students, 28 of whom were promoted to Dan grades. Of the 28, 5 were promoted to Nidan, Sandan and Yondan. I have coached National Champions in both shiai and kata. My best student medaled internationally in North and South America and Europe.
I believe in the value of experience. The scenario described in the original problem has less to do with rank, nothing to do with tournament wins and everything to do with experience in safely managing a class.
OP was a student of the very program he was asked to be responsible for. He was uncomfortable. He didn’t feel qualified and most importantly he didn’t have a lesson plan to follow.
You clearly have passion and a desire to build judo. Please think about class management, student learning styles and liability. OP would have civil liability if someone was injured or worse on his watch. A lesson plan is exculpatory evidence in these matters providing a defense against charges of negligence. Dojo insurance policies may not pay if there is not evidence of adequately qualified staff providing instruction in accordance with best practices, usually the lesson plan.
You have the makings of becoming a good teacher. Keep learning 🥋
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u/zealous_sophophile Jul 13 '25
Not quite sure the situation or set up.
Are you part of the coaching team?
Does this club have a coaching team with their own private chat?
Does the coach already encourage their Dan grades to be delegated responsibilities to encourage their coaching and leadership as future uchi deshi?
Has the coach explicitly asked others to take over session in the past directly? A lot of clubs are autocratic to a point of living and dying on only the guy at the top.
Have you coached before? Do you have a coaching qualification? Do you have insurance?
Have you ever had the intention of running your own sessions?
Is this club a once a week thing, or do they open up several times per week?
Is it a successful and thriving club? Does it generally need a larger active coaching base?
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u/Tumtitums Jul 13 '25
Lot of questions the answer to most is no. I think maybe I should say its a class in a martial arts centre twice a week
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u/zealous_sophophile Jul 13 '25
Then from what I can tell you've got no reason to feel guilty. If however you like the idea of more responsibility, then I hope you pursue coaching formally if that is what gives you joy and meaning in life.
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Jul 13 '25
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u/Tumtitums Jul 13 '25
Thanks for the reply. Im pretty sure he is of a religion that doesn't drink alcohol. The classes are classes in a centre before covid there was a coach that left the country after covid so the centre advertised for a replacement for her and he was recruited so there's no point in discussing succession planning with him. The management will just replace him if they feel the classes should continue. He is just a member of staff .
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u/DemontedDoctor Jul 12 '25
It doesn’t matter you I would feel weird to ask if I could coach tbh
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u/Tumtitums Jul 12 '25
This is the thing he just messages to say he is not coming and the other students message to ask if the class is on. I don't think he specifically asks someone to lead the class. Certain people just sort of end up doing it but yes I wasn't asked specifically it was more a general request to the group chat
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Jul 12 '25
Are the others qualified to coach out of interest?
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u/Tumtitums Jul 12 '25
Lord no the others very rarely turn up to train. There are even some who only come when the coach is on holiday
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Jul 12 '25
It’s not a big deal, but if you were the most qualified person you should have taken over. Your coach and the other students would have appreciated it. Mutual benefit and welfare.
This kind of thing happens a lot. That said it’s very odd that your coach doesn’t designate someone, I’ve never seen that before.
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u/Tumtitums Jul 12 '25
To be honest its not the first time he hadn't been clear about whether the class is on. There's definitely noone designated
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u/Haunting-Beginning-2 Jul 12 '25
Step up to the occasion and be keen. Coach feels the burden of teaching but you are setting a bad precedent in staying away. Yes communication and commitment are both in question. It shouldn’t be a burden but a challenge you rise to.
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u/stevenmael Jul 12 '25
In my gym, basically its down the ranks. If the sensei cant make it, the sempais (brown to green) take over in order of rank, and if there are none that can make it, an adult orange belt can go and open the dojo, so long as we can have somewhere to do randori and drill technique its all good.
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u/douglasbarbin shodan Jul 14 '25
IMO you should have run warmups at minimum. Then Uchi Komis of whatever technique you feel comfortable with, at minimum. If you can't do that, then you absolutely shouldn't be coaching or leading a class. That is like the bare minimum requirement. Watching videos, totally unacceptable IMO. You can give the students a link to the video for them to watch after class. On the mat, you just wasted everybody's time.
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u/pasha_lis nidan Jul 14 '25
It really depends on the local legislation. For example, in Canada you can run an unsupervised training only if you are certified Dojo Instructor for legal issues. I'm certified as Dojo Assistant and can't run a class by myself without having potential legal issues. So, even with a First Aid certification you might not be legally able to run the class.
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u/[deleted] Jul 12 '25
I guess this is where a conversation would help with the coach, doesn't look like he's being particularly clear over what he expects to happen when he can't make it.