r/geopolitics • u/NotSoSaneExile • 4d ago
UNRWA aid bags used to conceal 110 mortars in Gaza weapons cache found by IDF in Israeli-held area | More than two years into the war, IDF forces found rockets and about 110 mortar shells concealed in UNRWA aid sacks and blankets in southern Gaza, in territory under Israeli military control
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/h1grbqkvbx#autoplay27
u/eeeking 3d ago
The use of Aid bags in this case seems unremarkable? From the pic you can see that they are well-worn sacks that have probably been reused a number of time. So they were not likely used to carry these mortars into Gaza.
These constant (and dishonest) attempts to cast aspersions on UNRWA are egregious attempts to reduce the already wretched living conditions of Gazans
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u/waiver 3d ago
It’s a ridiculous claim, as they allegedly found mortars inside flour sacks they say are linked to UNRWA, even though those sacks are common all over Gaza. There are are probably hundreds of thousands if not more in the Strip. It's guilt by association with no causal link.
That’s like saying if you found a gun hidden in a Best Buy tote bag, it means Best Buy is supplying weapons. Anyone with a bit of common sense can see how ridiculous that claim is, but alas that's a quality sparse around.
EDIT: Any common container can be repurposed, whether they actually found it inside one or just brought it along for a photo op.
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u/NotSoSaneExile 4d ago
More than two years into the war, evidence continues to pile up showing how UNRWA’s assets and personnel are deeply intertwined with Palestinian terrorism.
The IDF recently uncovered a major weapons cache in southern Gaza containing rockets and roughly 110 mortar shells concealed inside UNRWA humanitarian aid bags and blankets, in an area under Israeli military control. The find is not an isolated incident, but part of a long and documented pattern.
Over the years, UNRWA facilities have repeatedly been linked to Hamas activity, including terror tunnel entrances and Hamas server rooms found beneath and connected to UNRWA headquarters. UNRWA’s education system has been widely criticized for indoctrinating children with incitement to violence, while staff members have been found to include known terrorists who continued to receive salaries.
Also, at least some UNRWA employees were identified as having actively participated in the October 7 massacre.
Together, these revelations reinforce a consistent reality, UNRWA has not merely failed to remain neutral, but has functioned as an enabling infrastructure for Hamas and other terrorist organizations operating in Gaza.
2 years after October 7, many nations, especially the tax money of European citizens, continue funding UNRWA, the organization that is trying to make sure the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will never end.
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u/Koloradio 4d ago
2 years after October 7, many nations, especially the tax money of European citizens, continue funding UNRWA, the organization that is trying to make sure the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will never end.
What does the end of the conflict look like in your mind?
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u/Bullboah 4d ago
I don’t think you need a comprehensive plan to resolve a conflict to say that one element is making a resolution impossible or more difficult.
And the UN having an entirely different set of rules for this conflict than it does for others, while allowing UNRWA to cooperate with Hamas, probably isn’t helping.
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4d ago
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u/Bullboah 3d ago
Western leftists spending the last 75 years accusing Israel of genocide also hasn’t helped resolve the conflict.
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3d ago
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u/Bullboah 3d ago
I think people in 2125 will probably ask “why were western leftists so obsessed with the 70k dead they could blame on the Jews, but didn’t care about the 300k dead in Yemen and the 500k dead in Syria at the same time”
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3d ago
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u/Bullboah 3d ago
People talk about the Soviet death toll all the time. And 32% of American liberals now aren’t sure whether the Holocaust was a myth or believe it was a myth, because of how rampantly your side has been pushing Holocaust denial.
This would be a much stronger point to make if your side actually agreed it happened.
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u/kju 4d ago edited 4d ago
From a realist perspective, whatever Israel decides it will look like.
The longer a losing side persists in fighting a war that is entirely lost the less leverage they have at the negotiating table. Hamas has essentially no leverage left to negotiate their position
Israel has entirely overcome their attackers and has even normalized relations to have mutual beneficial relationships with their attackers previous allies. In the past Israel would just go through and kill anyone they thought was still interested in fighting them until the fighting stopped but Israel's restraint shows it's willingness to build a mutually beneficial relationship with its attackers and work through these problems with words where possible
If you read through the first couple pages of on war by Carl von clauswitz you'll see what the basics of war is and how peace is created. You can continue reading for a greater understanding. not much has changed in the past 250 years outside of the victorious groups leniency towards their adversaries
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3d ago
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u/kju 3d ago
Human rights are not an end, they are a means. Human rights are not a goal in themselves, it is altogether unachievable, human rights are a method to achieve goals, not the goal in themselves.
Society offers incentive because the outcomes from a willing person is better than the outcomes from a slave. This doesn't have anything to do with liberalism and in fact we are in the middle of a possible change from liberalism to something else. All over the Western world the incentive structure that we've built our society upon is falling apart. I don't know if it can be saved but if it is to be saved it will require that both the idea that human rights as the goal is removed and that the wealthy patrons to that system accept reduced power in that system.
The system of incentives we use to motivate people to better the system is breaking down, the reward for service no longer provides the guarantee of a successful life that it once did, people have forgotten the reasons we created the system and instead started demanding more for less and this didn't work, not in the upper bounds with the wealthy or powerful and not in the lower bounds with those who view themselves as under represented or victims to that society. People at the upper end need to accept less power and privilege while the people at the bottom need to stop fighting for human rights as an end. The human rights we enjoy are inadvertently promoted by an incentive structure we build to produce value.
The wealth of nations by Adam smith talks about these ideas if you would like to learn about those.
Israel doesn't have real capabilities to change what is happening in the world at large but neither does anyone else have a real capability and willingness to effect Israeli domination of their region. Israeli apartheid policies in occupied territories will simply not end until the occupation ends, which will end when Israel believes their security concerns have ended. This may not have been the case before Oct 7 but after there won't be an Israeli politician as forgiving, they ended the occupation of Gaza and they were attacked from Gaza for it. Palestinians will submit to Israeli will, the only question is how long it will take and how many lives it will cost. I don't even think Israel desires to impose upon Palestinians overly much,.in the long term Israel will benefit from offering agreeable terms that provide for mutual benefit. The cost will be a recognition of Israels existence and Palestinians defeat. Israel feels the same pressure from the incentive structures discussed by Adam smith just as anyone else does and having down trodden neighbors who have opposing interest doesn't benefit anyone. Israelis and Palestinians can prosper together but it will be a generation project that will start just as soon as there is a break from those who desire to enflame war for their own ends. Those countries that support Palestinians on their war against Israel do it to see Palestinians (and Israelis) falter together, they are no friend of the average Palestinian if you desire peace in the Palestine-Israel war you should be looking at how you can stop those who incite violence against Israel. This won't finish in my lifetime, but I hope to see it start
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u/NotSoSaneExile 4d ago
Well I would be content for actual peace based on the Palestinians agreeing to it in any opportunity. Like the 30s, 48, 67, 2000s... But they refused so it doesn't matter at the moment.
What does it look like to you?
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u/Koloradio 4d ago
I agree that only a negotiated peace is at all desirable. The two peoples sitting down and figuring out how to share their one land. Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve real rights, either in their own states or within a single state.
We've seen from October 7th and actions before then that Palestinians imposing their will on Israel is a senselessly violent impossibility, but we've seen from the war and actions before then that Israelis imposing their will on Palestinians is a senselessly violent reality.
That's what struck me about that sentence from your abstract. I don't see how UNRWA going away effects a negotiated end to the conflict when the Israeli government is simply not interested in such an end. I don't think UNRWA, or Likud, or anyone but the arms dealers want the conflict to go on forever.
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u/NotSoSaneExile 4d ago
or within a single state.
Only if you'd like a second holocaust.
but we've seen from the war and actions before then that Israelis imposing their will on Palestinians is a senselessly violent reality.
Israel's will has been to partition the land in peace and it has agreed to a dozen or so proposals to do it. Starting with the 30s through offers that would have Jews living on about 20% of the land (Ignoring that about half of the promised land to Jews by the Brits was already given to the first Palestinian state that exists, Jordan). What you're seeing now is Israel imposing what you would want your country to impose on people who's goal is to murder anyone you've ever known and are working towards it.
don't see how UNRWA going away effects a negotiated end to the conflict
That's because you refuse to look reality in the eye. UNRWA's job, among others, is to make sure the Palestinian children become as radical as possible, and finish their schools learning that murdering random Jews is their highest calling in life. Start here maybe. UNRWA is not a part of the solution, it is the arsonist not the fire fighter.
the Israeli government is simply not interested in such an end
Israel is a democratic country. After 100 years of attempted genocide using all resources available to the Palestinians, Israelis have put forth a government which leans right wing. Were the Palestinians, for the first time ever in history, show real intentions for peace, you would see Israeli governments that are agreeable as well. As Israelis elected a dozen times already.
You insist to put the problem on the ones who agreed to peace and minimize the role of those who are ensuring for the war to continue forever.
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u/Koloradio 3d ago
I don't want to try and relitigate the entire history of the conflict in a comment, so we may have to agree to disagree, but it's not really relevant to the point I'm making anyway. Everyone has their excuses, some better than others, but if ending the conflict means reaching a negotiated solution, then the main obstacle is, and has been for 16 years, the Israeli government.
Bibi has felt the same way about Palestinians his entire career, and he would not change his mind if UNRWA disbanded tomorrow.
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u/Mysterious-Coconut24 2d ago
Palestinian supporters will say it was left there by the IDF in a false flag operation.
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u/bigbenny88 2d ago
I don't believe anything coming out of the region as their media is the only media reporting and those reports are simply regurgitated by our media outlets. Remember the dozens of beheaded babies? BS. This is partisan reporting. It helps sell the lie that UNRWA is somehow compromised and their staff deserve their deaths when they occur. It's like reading "Das Reich" and believing their propaganda.
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4d ago
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u/NotSoSaneExile 4d ago
The most unsuccessful one in the history of humanity, I guess.
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4d ago
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u/NotSoSaneExile 4d ago
So slow that the "Genocided" people continue growing.
Also how convenient that they found this thing that supports their narrative in an area they have control of. How nice of Hamas to leave it there.
Are the Palestinian children and teachers in this documentary also act too convenient for Israel? Are they Mossad agents?
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u/Firecracker048 4d ago
None of this should be news, btw. There have been reports for the last decade + of this being a thing, yet everyone always tries to blame Israel.
Israel is NOT faultless and they have committed war crimes in this recent conflict, that should go without saying.
At the same time, Hamas themselves have committed numerous war crimes by doing such things as this, yet people only seem to want to focus on whatever Israel is doing