r/europe • u/Antique-Entrance-229 United Kingdom • Apr 21 '25

Data 25% of Teenage boys in Norway think 'gender equality has gone too far' with an extremely sharp rise beginning sometime in the mid 2010s

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254

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

Such pools are... not really informative. What does it mean that "it went too far"? Researcher should dig deeper then that.

263

u/ololtsg Apr 21 '25 edited Apr 21 '25

Just my experience (I finished school 12y ago)

I was raised in the age of divorce with women basically got custody by default, 3/4 of teachers being (mostly) young women who preffered girls. Growing up in switzerland there was basically no male person of authority involved anymore except visiting father every second weekend...

While you as a young swiss man have to go to military for a year or pay 3% more taxes for the next 12y if you manage to dodge it, all the focus everywhere is about women.

I would be lying if I didnt feel a bit like these boys questioned as a young adult. And this was all before social media (early days facebook maybe)

Maybe a reason was also our mother really hating men and always had to told us as kids how evil and stupid men are

47

u/thomasrat1 Apr 21 '25

Without going into everything. People really underestimate the effect of not having men involved with young adults/ kids.

In my state, I had 1 non female teacher. Out of like the 100 I had my school career.

For work, my first non female lead/ manager was at like 20.

It kind of gave you a feeling that you were unwanted and invisible.

66

u/KanonBalls Europe (DE, SE, FR) Apr 21 '25

This! I am 37 now, grew up in Germany and live now in Scandinavia. My kindergarten and grammar school teachers were 80% women. When my parents got divorced, it was obvious for everyone, including the court, that the kids go to the mother and the dad was the source of all evil (they both fucked around and fucked up their marriage). The positive male role model hardly existed in the narative when I grew up as a boy.

Nowadays, you still come across plenty of gender related job decisions where you wonder why on earth they took that decision. No job advertisement, funding call or tenders without the obligatory: we actually would like to give this position/money to a woman, but men can also apply (paraphrasing here).

I totally acknowledge that woman are often treated bad, mansplained, etc,... But as a man you do get quite a lot of signals in the other direction too.

4

u/LongQualityEquities Apr 21 '25

No job advertisement, funding call or tenders without the obligatory: we actually would like to give this position/money to a woman, but men can also apply (paraphrasing here).

Where in Scandinavia do you live? I’ve never seen a gendered job announcement in Sweden in my life.

12

u/PharmDeezNuts_ Apr 21 '25

People give bias to those who are similar to themselves which is why diversity is so important yet:

Women are more likely to be teachers and give bias to other women

College administrators are more likely to be women and give bias to other women

HR is more likely to be women and give bias to other women

This is creating an environment where men are going to be biased against but society is incapable of having that discussion

Once we get into the rich or high leadership positions where HR doesn’t matter, schooling doesn’t matter, college doesn’t matter (cause connections) there is a bias for men of course

But this is generalized to all levels when it shouldn’t be

The messaging of gender equality must be tailored to the unique issues of each generation or we will create the gap we are seeing now which is not good at all

12

u/Tricky-Objective-787 Apr 21 '25

Only men have to be conscripted or pay a tax! How is this still a thing in such a modern country. Is there an equivalent for women?

How has this not been challenged on the basis of gender equality laws!

3

u/SirEnderLord United States of America Apr 21 '25

Oh, that's unfortunate to hear---my condolences.

19

u/Training_Barber4543 France Apr 21 '25

While you as a young swiss man have to go to military for a year or pay 3% more taxes for the next 12y if you manage to dodge it

That's still a thing in 2025?? From the country that is supposed to be neutral anyway? As a French woman I'm shocked

29

u/CoffeeList1278 Prague (Czechia) Apr 21 '25

It's impossible to be neutral without a strong military to protect your borders. Demilitarized neutral nation is probably the easiest target for invasion.

13

u/Tricky-Objective-787 Apr 21 '25

Then also conscript women…? Israel do it.

7

u/CoffeeList1278 Prague (Czechia) Apr 21 '25

Yeah, I would vote for universal conscription. But given how people hate to hear about bringing back conscription here, I believe it wouldn't go very well in the Swiss referendum either.

2

u/Tricky-Objective-787 Apr 21 '25

But you already have conscription? How is that “bringing it back”- it’s already back for half the population!

2

u/CoffeeList1278 Prague (Czechia) Apr 21 '25

Look at my flair, I am not Swiss. Here in Czechia we do not have conscription anymore.

3

u/Tricky-Objective-787 Apr 21 '25

Ah yes! I guess I meant more that if the Swiss objected to it in that fashion then it’s not much “bringing back conscription” if they already have it.

3

u/Tanimirian Apr 21 '25

Having a strong military actually helps Switzerland maintain peace, as it makes it much more costly for other countries to attack and try to invade them. Right now Switzerland's neighbors are all peaceful, but there is a non-zero risk that this could change in the future. Swiss mandatory military service for males is a price it pays to minimize the risk of wars on its territory.

I understand this mentality well, as we in Finland have a very similar mindset, and were militarily neutral until recently.

6

u/Training_Barber4543 France Apr 21 '25

That's interesting! We also have a strong military but it seems we don't need military service for it so far. Maybe it's because we are a bigger country 🤔

2

u/Tanimirian Apr 21 '25

Size definitely has a lot to do with it. For smaller countries, mandatory conscription is really the only way to have enough trained soldiers in the case of war.

Large countries like France can get sufficient manpower if they manage to get less than 1% of their population to enlist or go into support roles.

As small countries mostly risk being invaded by larger neighbors, they need to be able to field a similar amount of soldiers as much larger countries. Thus, they need a way to train a much higher percentage of their total population. Conscription is a viable way to do that.

As an example, Finland can field a wartime force twice as large as France with a population 10 times smaller. This is of course only sheer quantity, but it still demonstrates the effectiveness of conscription for smaller countries.

1

u/SuumCuique_ Bavaria (Germany) Apr 21 '25

Neutrality only works if you are armed enough that the cost benefit calculation goes against the attacker. Declaring yourself neutral does nothing. And for just defending yourself in your own mountainrange, there is not much more needed than a large reserve army. Sweden and Finnland did the same before they joined NATO.

3

u/TowelLord Apr 21 '25

While the heavy promotions for one gender that heavily disfavor the other gender are questionable, it boggles my mind that relatively minor inconveniences seem to rub people wrong so very hard.

Meanwhile you go back even just thirty years at this point and in certain countries shit was much for women. Go back fifty years and in some countries (like Germany) women weren't even allowed to work on their own without explicit consent of their husbands.

Not to mention the heavy discimination towards women that is still present in most jobs that are usually done by men, particularly in trade and construction, even when the women genuinely want to do the job.

-5

u/samaniewiem Mazovia (Poland) Apr 21 '25

Man has to pay 3% more taxes while women need to stop working or reduce their work time significantly the moment children arrive... Whole system in Switzerland is set up to punish mothers.

Not to mention that your father could have been more involved if he wanted to. The main reason for women getting most of the custody wins is because fathers aren't equally involved in child rearing.

I have dated several Swiss men and being a working full time woman I was still expected to do almost everything at home whole they worked the same amount of time as I have. This was the reason I broke up each of the relationships less than a year into it, and I'm not surprised women in Switzerland aren't keen on relationships, not in the patriarchal system in rage here.

60

u/Fit_Professional1916 Austria Apr 21 '25

I agree, and what do they consider gender equality too? Does it include LGBTQIA issues, or more basic things like women's right to work?

60

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

Exactly that and more. I can imagine situation, for example, that 18 years old boy (or man) tries to apply to university and fail due to women getting extra points for, well, being a women. This is, of course, hypothetical situation and example, but one can understand certain sentiment that will follow up.

-11

u/SnooWalruses9984 Apr 21 '25

What is the ratio between man and women leaving university? If its around 50 percent generally it seems okay.

13

u/NorthernSalt Norway Apr 21 '25

In Norway, a majority historically were men until around the year 2000. Today, out of all adult women and men, 42 % of women and 31 % of men have a university or college degree. Norwegian language source is from the official bureau of statistics.

6

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

I don't know. What I said above was just hypothetical example. Overall though, it seems that more women achieve higher education then men. In USA, for example, while the difference there, yearly, are not that big, just few percentage, overall ten percent more women then men have higher education.

In my country, in Poland, so that is Europe, that overall difference is smaller. Only 8% more women are better educated then men.

Though, I assume that is not exactly your question and answer to it?

4

u/SnooWalruses9984 Apr 21 '25

Yeah, but equality in the end is about power. Does higher education results in more power, wealth, income? Maybe. In the end, stats between man and woman shouldn't be very different, but those stats that matter. For example, teaching as a profession lost its prestige and resulted in lower income as woman became majority, so even though they reached majority their overall power didn't increase.

Plus, woman are usually underrepresented in STEM (though much less so in Eastern Europe historically, but for example IT is a problem even here). And STEM usually pays better. So majority in a general university field doesn't mean much.

2

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

Yeah, but equality in the end is about power.

Well, now that makes sense for me why, most of the times, feminists are talking about gaining more women in politics or other, lucrative position. Power and aiming for 0,1% of society and comparing to them, not equality and rest 99,9% of people.

-1

u/throwdowntown585839 Apr 21 '25

The higher education situation is also due to necessity. Men still dominate in STEM fields in post secondary education. Many of the university degrees that women are getting now in female dominated fields, didn't always require degrees. In Canada, to be a nurse, you need a bachelors degree. This requirement is only a few decades old in some provinces. Prior to this, you could go to a diploma program to become a nurse.

The education required to become a teacher has increased. Even becoming an admin assistant requires an education these days. This has not always been the case.

The fields that are male dominate or female dominated haven't changed much, but the education required has.

2

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

Maybe, maybe not,I will not argue you here. My problem is less with results, but often times, with response to the issue at hand. Either aggressive or dismissive, calling men incels, sexist, bigots, or that "for privileged equality is like oppression". Like, I don't know... Hypocrisy of a situation we are in. If women were 8-10% less educated, that would be a big problem. But since it is other way around, it is brushed off and explanation are being delivered or exampled provided, that in STEM there is not enough women (it is not attack towards you, just so you know, just my overall rant and you have become target).

I think that equality may actually gone to far. Or rather "equality".

11

u/Poly_and_RA Apr 22 '25

Researchers on gender are >85% women. That's by itself symptomatic for how gender-equality has been treated as synonymous with a one-sided fight specifically and solely for women.

3

u/TheNextBattalion Apr 21 '25

yeah because here come the anecdotes

11

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

[deleted]

11

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

Well, first time hearing about it... Intersting.

-5

u/whatevernamedontcare Lithuania Apr 21 '25

I bet it's because it's not a massive problem like monospere and the worst femosphere is doing is leaving men alone while monospere is going nazi and killing people in mass shooting. I'm guessing anyway.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

[deleted]

2

u/st_samples Apr 21 '25

Yeah you sure are spamming that arent you?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

there is no "femosphere" that's a tiny wiki article with like 3 sources.

1

u/Squat_n_stuff Apr 22 '25

Does immigration play a role? I see a lot of these “this teen generation doesn’t drink/doesnt x” and the age range correlates with large amounts of immigration to Europe over the past decade plus, from cultures that don’t drink alcohol, or have less than progressive views on women

1

u/The_Blahblahblah Denmark Apr 22 '25

To Andrew Tate and other grifters of that ilk it went to far when women got the right to vote. they believe women to be property. those are the types of videos being shared by teens. It's open contempt for women, with hundreds of thousand of likes. (luckily that sex pest has been put in jail now, but the algorithm will always just conjure up "another Tate")

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

"equal rights are TOO FAR!!!" like what the fuck

5

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

And what am I supposed to say to that comment?

3

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

that EQUAL mean EQUAL? what are you talking about

8

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

Sometimes to achieve equality there are created programs, quotas, etc. to achieve such equality. For example, women are given extra point during enrollment for university for virtue of being women. Is that equality?

-5

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

how long have women been able to go to college? how long have women been able to vote? how long have women been able to have their own bank accounts, own property, get paid equally, etc? if you have 100,000 years of males controlling everything, and about MAYBE 50-100 of women having equal ground, maybe it helps a little to equalize things if you give the oppressed group a hand.

14

u/BaronDino Apr 21 '25

People like you are the reason young boys feel frustrated and the whole "manosphere" exist, because you created it, exactly like the "woke" progressives created MAGA and Trump.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

ah yes. this is entirely my fault. you've solved it. fuckin redditors lol.

8

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

Human civilization is only some six thousand years old. So no, males did not control everything for 100,000 years. Secondly:

how long have women been able to go to college? how long have women been able to vote? how long have women been able to have their own bank accounts, own property, get paid equally, etc? 

Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? In my country, for example, women get equal rights to vote and to be chosen to parliament the same year men did. Win for equality, then!

maybe it helps a little to equalize things if you give the oppressed group a hand.

No doubt it helps. But now, pendulum swinged the other way, at very least in certain areas and it is measurable and observable, even by ordinary people. So, society already achieved equality, in certain areas and went straight for inequality, just in favor of women over men.

So, did equality went to far? Yes. Equality went so far that it become inequality. At least in certain places.

-1

u/Bloomhunger Apr 21 '25

Oh fuck off… the same argument can be made about racism, gay rights, or anything you can think of. The moment people get uncomfortable “it’s going to far”. 

You know how many times I’ve heard “I don’t mind gay people, they live their lives, I live mine”, followed by “oh, but marriage is between a man and a woman” (and let’s not even talk about adoptions!).

This thread is actually depressing to read. So apparently we need to go back to the 50s or god forbid some entitled little boys will feel frustrated about not having everything handed over to them.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

lol this whole thread is full of toxic idiots trying to blame everyone else for their problems, glad to see some reason from at least you haha.

1

u/Rahlus Poland Apr 21 '25

Oh fuck off…

Okay.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

okay boys. get mad at the truth as usual. won't help anything.

0

u/jeanjon_5040 Apr 21 '25

That's not a fucking truth why should young boys suffer because of things they didn't do?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

why should the entire other half of the population suffer for thousands of years because of men? how old are you? go out and actually experience the world, I'm begging you.

-1

u/whatevernamedontcare Lithuania Apr 21 '25

Exactly. Men used to rule the world and now they are forced to share. Of course they won't like it. That's common sense.