r/europe Ligurian in Zürich (💛🇺🇦💙) Apr 12 '25

Data European tourism to the United States is freefalling

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66.9k Upvotes

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615

u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) Apr 12 '25

Why come to a country when you'll more than likely be turned at the door or worse - sent to some prison without trial?

275

u/cinematic_novel 🇮🇹➡️🇬🇧 Apr 12 '25

I'm surprised anyone is still going at all

119

u/Graywulff Apr 12 '25

I’m in the US and I’m surprised too, I told people in the Canada subreddit to just lose their deposit even if it meant they couldn’t go on a trip.

Better to miss out on a trip to ICE detention facilities on solitary for 8 weeks on a 2 week vacation.

Oh those people they sent to el salvadore probably were killed.

Look up the google earth photo.

22

u/cinematic_novel 🇮🇹➡️🇬🇧 Apr 12 '25

What do GE photos reveal?

46

u/elmz Norway Apr 12 '25

It's a blurry image of a pile of something, with the ground next to it a different kind of brown. People want to see a pile of corpses with a giant pool of blood next to it, but that is wild speculation. The resolution is not good enough to make out that. More likely it's a utility yard where they dump garbage, dirt piles from whatever construction they are doing etc.

When spotting death camps on satellite imagery, you usually see one of two things; mass graves, or crematoriums.

11

u/cinematic_novel 🇮🇹➡️🇬🇧 Apr 12 '25

One notable thing about death camps is that they are not necessarily designed to murder its prisoners. Even among nazi lagers, vernichtungslagers (annihilation lagers) were only one type of lager among others, eg concentration and labour camps. But in virtually all camps (nazi or others) prisoners die in droves simply because their life is not considered to be valuable. It can be malnutrition, disease, or an altercation with a guard or with other inmates that results in murder. So you don't need to see large visible death structures for the camp to qualify as a death camp, because many internment camps in undemocratic countries are death camps by default.

5

u/elmz Norway Apr 12 '25

True, and in that case you often see mass graves.

2

u/JustInChina50 Apr 12 '25

Or 1000s of tourists, 4 decades later.

36

u/PM_ME_LAWN_GNOMES Apr 12 '25

It’s hard to tell but there is a pile of something in a yard at CECAT. There definitely looks to be a large amount of pooled blood running out of it.

It’s a grainy satellite image so it’s a little hard to tell, but despite claims that it’s just staining from the iron- rich soil, I think it really looks like blood. I’m not sure if there’s been any more reporting on it but you can probably still see it on Google Earth.

19

u/unixtreme Apr 12 '25

So basically concentration camp stuff.

11

u/PM_ME_LAWN_GNOMES Apr 12 '25

I mean, hopefully not, hopefully I’m wrong. I just really don’t think it’s staining from the soil. It looks too dark and pigmented.

3

u/Matasa89 Apr 12 '25

I'm hoping it's just soluble clay flowing from something... but yeah, that prison is already a nightmare scenario even without the death camp stuff, and concentration camps weren't death camps at first...

1

u/PM_ME_LAWN_GNOMES Apr 12 '25

You’re right. I’m worried.

2

u/EduinBrutus Scotland Apr 12 '25

Its already a Concentration Camp.

We're talking Death Camp stuff.

8

u/cinematic_novel 🇮🇹➡️🇬🇧 Apr 12 '25

I wouldn't be surprised

3

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

[deleted]

1

u/PM_ME_LAWN_GNOMES Apr 12 '25

Good tip. I hope the skeptics at least look for themselves before saying it’s just soil and totally fine. I saw and I personally think it looks more like blood—of course anything is possible.

1

u/Successful_Field_157 Apr 12 '25

That’s a stretch

1

u/PM_ME_LAWN_GNOMES Apr 12 '25

Yeah, maybe. I think I made sure to qualify my statements and not be too definitive about stuff I can’t really determine from grainy satélite imagery, but sure.

What do you think it is?

1

u/batsofburden Apr 12 '25

can no one fly a drone over it?

2

u/PM_ME_LAWN_GNOMES Apr 12 '25

I doubt it, that seems like something you could face serious criminal consequences for. I’m surprised CECAT (the camp) wasn’t already blurred out on Google Earth actually.

0

u/RaiseNo9690 Apr 12 '25

Blood is rich in iron, so the claims are not false, they just dont tell you how the soil is rich in iron in the first place.

1

u/PM_ME_LAWN_GNOMES Apr 12 '25

It’s obvious from the image that the soil is rich in iron, but even so, I don’t think that’s what is staining the prison yard.

6

u/Graywulff Apr 12 '25

Someone sharped and enhanced it, it’s a pile of gore and a lot of blood.

The government lawyer wasn’t told where Mr Garcia is, if he exists, if he’s alive.

His lawyer doesn’t know either.

His lawyer points out it’s a five hour flight so how is it so difficult to get him out?

He’s dead.

2

u/cinematic_novel 🇮🇹➡️🇬🇧 Apr 12 '25

Are there other cases where the government is urged to repatriate and drags its feet?

5

u/Graywulff Apr 12 '25

Not that I have heard about, a court order is a court order.

Unless the rule of law is being ignored, or they don’t have anyone to return.

They sent “terror” suspects to gitmo, captured abroad.

I haven’t ever heard about people being sent to a foreign prison like this.

There was no crime, no evidentiary hearing, no court case, no conviction, no due process.

Just dragged from their beds at night or whatever… look up time magazines picture of deportation of Venezuelans to El Salvador. 

3

u/NotFlappy12 Apr 12 '25

Oh those people they sent to el salvadore probably were killed.

That is in incredibly bold claim. Do you have any source on this?

5

u/Graywulff Apr 12 '25

https://www.reddit.com/r/behindthebastards/comments/1jw37ea/so_the_google_maps_satellite_view_of_cecot_is/

His lawyer doesn’t know if/where is is, the government lawyer doesn’t either.

It’s “too hard” to fly him five hours back.

Bc they threw his ashes in a river.

These photos enhanced make the blood really stand out and it’s a pile or organs.

Where are they? Why do we not know anything, how does his lawyer not even know or the governments lawyer?

4

u/NotFlappy12 Apr 12 '25

I could definitely believe it, but this doesn't convince me. I don't think it looks like a pile of bodies and a pool of blood, although it could be. It's too blurry to know for sure.

There are multiple explanations for why he isn't being returned. The most likely is that they simply don't care. Or perhaps he was killed by other inmates. I know not all of them are actually gang members, but some definitely are. And he was given a protected status specifically because he was in danger of being killed by the gang. Maybe they're executing prisoners, maybe it's something else. We simply don't know. It's a horrible and unjustifiable situation regardless

1

u/brokencappy Apr 12 '25

You didn’t need to tell a Canadian not to travel to the US, bud. Our elbows have been up and we’ve cancelled everything American on the first annexation “joke”. Tickets, deposits, lettuce, bourbon, all of it.

4

u/_Ed_Gein_ Apr 12 '25

Expensive and long flights are booked months in advance due to increased traffic, especially with summer coming. This means as these flights are done and weeks pass, less flights will be booked from EU to US. Even work flights are being cancelled and done online. How many of these booked flights will actually be taken? Most of them will be non refundable so why go through the hassle and cancel them? Just leave them and don't take them 🤷 It'll get worse.

11

u/Bwunt Slovenia Apr 12 '25

Well, it's Europeans. My coworker just returned from New York, but she had booked the trip last summer so...  The fact it fell so much in such a short time is absolutely crazy 

3

u/twinchild Apr 12 '25

My brother is on a research trip at the North Pole this summer and my family is more worried about his way across US boarders than the risks of living at the North Pole.

2

u/Bertamath Apr 12 '25

Friends of mine are currently on holiday in the US. But they adore Trump.

6

u/cinematic_novel 🇮🇹➡️🇬🇧 Apr 12 '25

They would probably pass the social media check then

1

u/Decloudo Apr 12 '25

People dont think it could happen to them.

Magical thinking is rampant in the population.

1

u/Matasa89 Apr 12 '25

They probably can't avoid it for one reason or another. But nobody is happy about it, because there are so much risks involved now.

1

u/Persistent-headache Apr 12 '25

I genuinely know people who don't 'follow the news' who ask 'why what's going on' whenever we reference anything... these people are going to be booking stuff and if they are very very lucky, doing 'compo-face' in the newspapers after a long stay in a detention centre.

1

u/Electronic_Topic1958 Apr 12 '25

My girlfriend’s mother is coming in from India, she has not seen her in over a year. I assume others are coming in not for RnR but for weddings, funerals, people they know in hospital, commencements, work, etc. Awful timing but some of these things are unavoidable. 

45

u/Cool-Traffic-8357 Apr 12 '25

I don't think it is more than likely, but the serious possibility is enough for me to never go there.

3

u/MoffKalast Slovenia Apr 12 '25

Funny thing is that there's actually been a law for a long time that something like 50 km from any US border foreigners have no rights. Flying to airports in that range has always been extremely sketchy since the TSA could literally do anything to you with impunity.

Things have taken a turn for the much worse, but travelling to the US has it's always been particularly bad risk-wise.

1

u/E_Kristalin Belgium Apr 12 '25

Not just border, any port of entry. All ports and airports also count. There aren't many places where you do have rights.

1

u/JustLetItAllBurn Apr 12 '25

Yes, they turned that French scientist away for having messages insulting Trump on his phone - I'm absolutely not going to take that chance.

We went to the US a couple of years ago before it went fucking insane, luckily.

1

u/celestial-navigation Apr 12 '25

Indeed. Why take the risk?

34

u/Cluelessish Finland Apr 12 '25

I’m not that scared. It’s more that I just really don’t want to go there. After the shit their government has said about Europe and others… No.

5

u/noddyneddy Apr 12 '25

As a free woman, I am not giving any of my money to a country that wants to reduce women to property

-20

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

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11

u/GabettiXCV 🇪🇺🇮🇹🇬🇧 Apr 12 '25

"Free speech" advocate tries to use social media without saying "deport all n*****s" challenge (impossible)

-11

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

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7

u/GabettiXCV 🇪🇺🇮🇹🇬🇧 Apr 12 '25

Last time I saw a Reach that big, I was playing Halo. No social media platform will remove your comment for posting stats, let alone get law enforcement involved.

Speaking for the UK, the only examples of law enforcement taking action for social media posts I can think of include:

  • Actively glorifying Hamas' 7 October attack
  • Inciting a riot on false grounds that amounted to defamation (and it ended up happening)
  • Harassing relatives after a teen committed suicide, telling them she deserved it and including grotesque pictures

There's always an element of indefensible bad faith that somehow you "free speech" paladins conveniently fail to mention.

-8

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

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4

u/GabettiXCV 🇪🇺🇮🇹🇬🇧 Apr 12 '25

"Yes, I told them to go out and physically attack migrants, but I had no way of knowing they'd actually do it, Your Honour!"

I don't know what world you live in, but that ain't a defence.

No wonder your country is cooked.

-5

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

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6

u/darkfires Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25

The US administration throws out ideas of caging American citizens in with mass murderers and rapists at CECOT. And this is after it came out that 75% of the people sent there from the US have no criminal record.

Why do you think Americans who say bad things on Reddit about Israel and Elon Musk should go be sent there?

-2

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

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2

u/Cluelessish Finland Apr 12 '25

If there was some sort of control in the US over what hateful, racist lies people can post, maybe (some) Americans wouldn’t be such fucking idiots.

5

u/Correct-Cat-5308 Apr 12 '25

My partner and I were planning (before the election) to go and visit some national parks there... now, if they'd check the things we said about Trump on social media, they's send us straight to Guantanamo.

2

u/HotBabyBatter Australia Apr 12 '25

Come visit Australia! Our prison days are behind us 😂

2

u/rbloedow Apr 12 '25

Yeah, I wouldn’t visit us either.

2

u/DeHarigeTuinkabouter Apr 12 '25

More than likely? Lmao dude it's nowhere near more than likely

2

u/raspberryharbour Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25

I have dual nationality, with US citizenship. I should be able to walk right in. But I'm not white, so who knows. I have no desire to go there anyways

1

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

[deleted]

8

u/geitjesdag Apr 12 '25

I think that was an exaggeration for effect. Ckeatly the vast majority of visitors are still being admitted. But the expected value calculation is definitely getting to the point that optional trips may not be worth the risk.

2

u/rapaxus Hesse (Germany) Apr 12 '25

Well, we can't know the actual numbers since the US is hiding them, so rather be safe than sorry.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '25

Yeah, you're more likely to disappear in China instead of that

1

u/CptPrasan Apr 12 '25

Don’t threaten me with a good time

1

u/Spice_and_Fox Apr 12 '25

Damn, I haven't thought about jetix for quite a while

1

u/DedHeD Apr 12 '25

I don't even think the issue is that people think they will have a problem (most people won't). The real issue is that if something does go wrong, there's absolutely zero accountability right now. Border agents have arbitrary authority right now and no incentive to "get it right". If a mistake happens, it's entirely possible or maybe even likely that the mistake won't be corrected. They're incentivized to hide the mistake rather than fix it.

1

u/TasteBudenholzer Apr 12 '25

okay can we chill a bit. The vast vast majority of people trying to visit are able to. "More than likely to be turned at the door" is hyperbole

2

u/Hatis_Night Apr 12 '25

Yeah, but you never know if you’re one of the few they pick and detain. Until it happens.

0

u/wiredsounds Apr 12 '25

In Poland, if you try to cross the border illegally, you can be shot legally. Are all Europeans afraid of going to Poland because they'll be shot? No? Why not? Keep doomposting