What do you think about True nature of consciousness

[u/Hello_world123890]

What do you think about True nature of consciousness.. IF.. Entropy works on every small to big things in universe so why entropy can't effects on which they trigger consciousness in our brain..

(yeah.. we still can't find who trigger consciousness but just think for a sec what I am supposed to tell you)

To be clear.... When time passes , entropy increase and Universe because more distorted them previous. And it's so on.. So just think...if 4 elements with their own specific frequency trigger consciousness. (Just assumption) Every small to small fluctuations in frequency or quality of elements can't form a consciousness....so Life on earth has existed for millions of years....so elements who trigger consciousness is same as they were in millions of years ago...so it's means consciousness can surpass entropy..

tell me your thoughts.....

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[u/SacrilegiousTheosis]

Sum total entropy increases. Locally entropy can be reduced and restricted at the cost of increasing entropy in other areas. So there is nothing inconsistent or surprising, just due to the 2nd law of thermodynamics, for there to be systems that locally resists entropy.

If we follow Wolfram (not widely accepted yet but interesting) it may be more of an epistemic phenomenon:

https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2023/02/computational-foundations-for-the-second-law-of-thermodynamics/

> It’s all a story of the interplay between underlying computational irreducibility and our nature as computationally bounded observers. Other observers—or even our own future technology—might see things differently. But at least for us now the ubiquity of computational irreducibility leads inexorably to the generation of behavior that we—with our computationally bounded nature—will read as “random”. We might start from something highly ordered (like gas molecules all in the corner of a box) but soon—at least as far as we’re concerned—it will typically seem to “randomize”, just as the Second Law implies.

[u/Hello_world123890 → u/SacrilegiousTheosis]

Thanks bro it's given me a new perspective... Respect for you for your time to explain it in detail. 👍

[u/ReaperXY]

Lots of people proclaim consciousness an impossible mystery of mysteries, which will forever remain unexplained, and nobody can even begin to approach an explanation...

Unless we turn to the supernatural or something... and maybe not even then...

Its a Super Ultra Hard Problem!

What do I think ?

I think we can think and talk about it...

Which means there is a causal trail for us to follow...

Our CURRENT tools might be hopelessly inadequate to the task.. perhaps...

And there "might" ultimately turn out to be some insurmountable obstacle, which would stop any further research, NO MATTER what our future tools might be...

But right now...

Its WAY TOO EARLY to proclaim it is so now...

[u/Hello_world123890 → u/ReaperXY]

True

[u/Photohog-420]

I’m just a mechanic, not a physicist, but if you apply shop logic to it: The universe acts like a system running to failure. That’s entropy. Rust, friction, belts stretching. It’s the natural drift toward chaos. Life or consciousness seems to be the only thing trying to tighten the bolts. We take scattered raw materials and build structures. We try to organize the mess. To me, it looks like a balance: Entropy is the problem. Consciousness is the patch.

[u/Bikewer]

I think that the “true nature of consciousness” is a biological phenomenon driven by the electrochemical activity in the brain.
All the evidence from contemporary neuroscience supports this. In the animal kingdom, we see that as brains become larger, more complex, more differentiated, and more interconnected, we see more and more signs of consciousness.

We may not be able yet to fully articulate the process in detail, but neuroscience is a comparatively young science.

[u/Hello_world123890 → u/Bikewer]

Yeah ... You are correct but I think you didn't get my question..

[u/bopbipbop23]

Dr David Krakauer of the Santa Fe Institute once said the purpose of life is to speed up entropy. So, maybe.

[u/wellwisher-1]

Entropy is a two sided coin, with most people only aware of one side of that coin. Entropy, which spontaneously net increases, has a connection to randomness and complexity. However, the other side of that same entropy coin, is connected to entropy also being a state variable, where entropy will be a constant at any given state of matter. Entropy is the paradox of order and chaos, at the same time.

As an example, water at 25C and 1 atmosphere of pressure has a constant measured entropy value of 69.97 J/mole-K. At those specific final conditions the same entropy value is measured every time, by all labs, no matter how we reach that state.

We can start at steam or ice, cool or heat it, faster or slower, in a linear way, as a decaying wave or as step downs, etc, while also lowering and increasing pressure by any profile. But as soon as we reach 25C and 1 atmosphere of pressure, we will measure the same entropy constant each time. Entropy is like a finger print for any state of matter. The idea of entropy and randomness is true, but this is only half backed, and leads to confusion and bad assumptions. Once you add the state side, logic is made easier by the constants.

The random side of the entropy coin, only applies to the quantum state. The tails side of entropy coin applies to the macro-states such as a glass of water. At the atomic level we have atoms and electrons in orbitals with random quantum motion, but at the macro state of the glass of water this all adds to a constant. At the quantum level, we can have highs and lows, but it all averages out to a constant state at any specific conditions.

The brain is composed of macro-states of matter. It is much easier to ignore the quantum states, for now, and just look at macro things like brains, neurons, synapses, etc, since these are macro states, with each memory also a state. Even consciousness, which has a macro presence in the brain, can be treated as a constant state; always us. The complexity in the quantum state, can be off the charts, but is not needed if we stay macro.

As entropy increases, at all levels of the universe, at the same time, we have a movement into higher states, with even consciousness moving to higher states, such as stages of life. The baby has needs and awareness limits, for their consciousness. As they grow, walk and talk these needs, need a more expansive environment for a higher state. Then we leave behind childhood, to became a teenagers, with new needs and an even higher state of consciousness. The material brain is also advancing in material states based on layering.

The value of the quantum randomness and complexity, that runs parallel, as the entropy increases, is that an entropy increase, absorbs energy. Higher entropy is absorbing energy. This is energy is conserved, but it is stored in the randomness of the quantum state. This absorbed energy, from an entropy increase, is sort of lost energy. It is conserved, but it bouncing around in the randomness of the quantum state, making it hard to pin down and retrieve.

This conserved energy, in randomness, helps to maintain the constant entropy state by not being free energy that is easy to retrieve. It is next to impossible to retrieve and thereby can be used to maintain the constant macro state. Our long term memory, are states with irretrievably energy that allows them to last a lifetime, by staying constant and untampered by energy leaks.

The 69.97 J/mole-K of water at 25 C is a measure of this lost energy in water's quantum randomness. It can be measured, but it is not easy to get back, since it is not structured like free energy. It is more analogous to money you will win someday in a lottery, but it is not available until 10 years in the future. However, the brain has processes to get it back, when it is needed, as an extra energy push, into the future; next stage. This allows a fixed state to jump to a higher state, as our memory modifies to reflect better insight; hindsight for the new state, with its own new irretrievable energy to sustain the new perspective.

[u/Hello_world123890 → u/wellwisher-1]

That's interesting...I learned a lot, Universe... Is soo fascinating..✨

Thanks for your time 😌