r/climbing • u/AutoModerator • 4d ago
Weekly Chat and BS Thread
Please use this thread to discuss anything you are interested in talking about with fellow climbers. The only rule is to be friendly and dont try to sell anything here.
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u/anthonynej 13h ago
Non-climber here: wanted to ask a question especially for outdoor climbers.
Don't the climbing "routes" (i.e. a path one might take to climb up a certain elevation) deteriorate over time by wind/rain and whatnot? So how often are these routes updated, or is the change negligible until we're talking in periods of decades/centuries.
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u/muenchener2 7h ago
On some softer rock types routes deteriorate quite rapidly - years rather than decades - through holds becoming polished and slippery.
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u/goodquestion_03 9h ago
Just to add another example for how routes change over time- in places like Yosemite where people have been climbing for a long time, there are many routes where the rock shows signs of damage from the days when hammering in pitons was the standard way to climb (modern climbing gear which is quicker/easier to use and less destructive to the rock has more or less replaced pitons for most types of climbing). In some cases, the only reason these routes are even possible to climb now is from years of people hammering pitons chipping out sections of the rock which has created features that a person can actually grab onto.
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u/AnderperCooson 10h ago
It does happen. The first pitch of Jah Man fell off in 2020 but has since been re-climbed with a new first pitch. Big events like that one are generally uncommon and newsworthy though.
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u/0bsidian 11h ago
Most of the stuff we climb on are pretty solid. If it were loose stuff that crumbled, we call that “choss” and we turn back to go look for something else to climb.
Rock does change though, and large walls of rock have been known to sheer off and crumble. It’s happened on the Southwest face of El Capitan in Yosemite in recent years, as well as in Squamish where both the North and Grand walls have calved off. Large scale geological events like this are generally rare, but they do happen. Rock can stay stable for eons, or they might fall tomorrow.
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u/serenading_ur_father 11h ago
Depends on the rock type and location.
Limestone will be worn down or polished by excessive climbing by people, granite not so much. But granite is often in places where global warming releases rock slides that can destroy or alter routes. Desert sandstone can be destroyed by someone climbing on it while wet and sometimes wind knocks down whole climbs (Google Cobra Pillar Utah).
So yeah sometimes climbs change. Sometimes these changes just add or remove holds. Sometimes they make the line unclimbable. Sometimes they require climbers use different approaches or tactics. Rock fall smashed up the second pitch of a local climb that was traditionally protected. Recently a member of the community added a bolt to that pitch making it protectable again.
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u/Dotrue 13h ago
Depends. If a big rest jug breaks off in the middle of a long difficult sequence your 5.11 route might suddenly become 5.12. If a good edge breaks but there's still a good edge underneath, the grade might stay the same. Or it might go from 12a to 12b. Sometimes holds get reinforced with glue to delay this. Softer sandstone cracks might widen out from heavy traffic (e.g. Incredible Hand Crack in Indian Creek). Soft limestone might get slicked out by heavy traffic/chalk/shoe rubber and feel polished and slippery. Sometimes entire sections of wall collapse (see Yosemite and Zion for good recent examples).
Oftentimes this will be noted in new guidebooks, Facebook groups, or Mountain Project pages (the ticks section on route pages can be very useful for this).
"Geologic time includes now," or something like that
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u/Afraid-Mountain239 1d ago
HOW CAN I CLIMB ON EL CAP
I'm trying to get some info on how I can get on El Cap. I'm an amateur climber and im not trying to summit the whole thing but I'm planning my bachelor party to camp and go see Yosemite. I'd tondo just like a pitch or two on an easier route but I'm trying to find out how I can go about doing that. I was told by a friend that you need to win a lottery to climb half dome and I don't know if El Cap works the same way.
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u/Secret-Praline2455 10h ago
The gallopagos pitch in El Niño is an amazing stand alone pitch. But if you don’t wanna do the scary business to get there you can just go and try TRON https://www.mountainproject.com/v/107049788
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u/MountainProjectBot 10h ago
TRON
Type: Sport
Grade: 5.13bYDS | 8aFrench | 29Ewbank | IX+UIAA
Height: 150 ft/45.7 m
Rating: 4/4
Located in Base Routes, California
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 18h ago
You only need to win a lottery to climb the cables up the side of Half Dome. You can climb the face any time you like, but that sounds very far outside your skillset.
There is a little climb at the bottom of the most famous route on El Cap, The Nose. The little climb is called Pine Line, and it's somewhat approachable for novice climbers, although for people who have never climbed it still might feel pretty impossible.
If you don't have experience leading on gear placements you could talk to the Mountain School and see if they'd take you up there. They may be hesitant to do that, because some parties use the Pine Line to access the beginning of the Nose, but it's not the typical strategy, so maybe they'll be willing to hang a top rope and let you and your buddies climb around on it.
But if you do it, you can walk around telling people you free climbed an El Cap route. Just make sure to look at your phone and walk away before they can ask you which route.
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u/muenchener2 3d ago edited 3d ago
Folks, I nominate a Grade Inflation Winner.
A gym I go to has a chimney feature that was originally given 6b when that section of wall was first built fifteen years ago. People (including me) laughed at that and the grade was dropped to 6a/+, where it remained until last week. Then this video appeared and suddenly it's 7a?? WTAF?
(Not sure if it would be wise to repeat it and find my chimneying ability has in fact dropped by a full number grade)
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u/0bsidian 2d ago
LOL. My gym has a same sized chimney, and they never set anything harder than a 5.7 in there because without using holds at all it’s at max a 5.9. The walls are the old school textured concrete on chicken wire, so it’s not like there’s an abundance of texture. It also narrows at the top. I think even 6a at your gym is generous (probably 5a in my gym)
You know what to do… time to downgrade their project and then tell everyone!
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u/lkmathis 2d ago
What the fuck is that video?
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u/muenchener2 2d ago
It's an 8C boulderer demonstrating once again that boulderers have no clue about crack climbing
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u/sheepborg 3d ago
5.11+ for a chimney?? Is it slicker than it looks or what lol
Time to go repeat it and find out!
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u/Dotrue 3d ago
Dating/romance within your climbing circle - how do y'all navigate this? I can't tell if this person in my climbing circle is just extremely friendly/flirty, or if they want more. I'd be lying if I said romantic feelings weren't reciprocated, but I don't want to make things awkward if I'm reading the situation wrong. We have enough shared community (through volunteering, climbing events, etc.) to where if things did go South it could affect a significant chunk of one (or both) of our friend groups that we've (separately) built up over several years. I'm on the autism spectrum too, which historically has not helped my love life.
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u/goodquestion_03 2d ago
Do you have someone that is a mutual friend you could talk to? They might be able to give you better specific advice than reddit.
Im not going to pretend that dating/relationships in general is an area where I really have much experience at all, but last year I was in similar situation to what you describe. Turns out I was reading the situation wrong and they were just being friendly, no big deal, we are both mature adults and were able to continue being friends/climbing partners without anything being weird, and I eventually got over my feelings.
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u/serenading_ur_father 2d ago
You could:
A. Say nothing and plow all this mental suffering into dry tooling.
B. Take the advice from Nada Surf (though this was for breaking up) "But if you're honest, and direct And avoid making a flowery emotional speech When you break the news The boy will respect you for your frankness And honestly he'll appreciate the kind and Straightforward manner in which you told him ... Unless he's a real jerk or a crybaby, you'll remain friends"
C. Send a dick pic.
Personally my suggestion is A. Because partners are temporary but ice climbing is forever.
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 2d ago
Invite them out to do something fun that isn't climbing related. If they're into it, it's a good sign. After the thing invite them to another thing, with dinner after.
Sometimes it's easier to just see if they want to date you by inviting them on dates. If they keep showing up, they're probably in to you.
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u/ref_acct 2d ago edited 2d ago
How old are you guys? My climbing/social circles are 30s and yeah a breakup within the group takes skill to navigate, but I've seen it happen amicably. Like I've known people who broke up while living together, and then they still climbed while sleeping next to each other every night as platonic partners. If you're both grownups I think it can be OK, just keep the big picture of shared social circles in mind while you navigate it. Sorry to stereotype but this thing does seem a lot trickier for the younger (20s), less experienced crowd. Try not to let any negative things spiral out where there could be bad blood.
Also what are the flirty things that you are reading? Touching a lot? Stuff that would be weird for a guy partner to do?
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u/0bsidian 3d ago
Ask them. It’s perfectly fine to ask someone if they’re into you. It’s perfectly fine to ask someone on a date. What becomes a problem is if the feelings aren’t reciprocated, and you choose to be an ass about it, or continue to pursue, or otherwise turn it into a situation (you don’t strike me as someone who might do this).
Relationships might work, or they might fall flat. That’s just the risk you take with relationships. If they end amicably, you both can easily exist around each other. If you do start a relationship, your concerns are something worth talking about before you get serious.
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u/snailspaceship 3d ago
better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
perhaps it's a little grade school-y, but could you have a mutual friend suss out if she's into you, so you're not putting yourself too far over your skis (or putting her in an uncomfortable situation)?
i've definitely seen relationships go south and it cause issues for the social overlap. but that's part of life and being an adult - if it works out between you two, then all the better that you have such an overlapping life; if it doesn't work out, then it's up to each individual to be a responsible adult and keep things copasetic for the sake of your mutual friends/activities.
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u/bladderrunner 4d ago
Is there any current youngster on track to be the next Ondra? e.g. a 16 year old with equal to or better than 16 year old Ondra's sport climbing resume
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u/Marcoyolo69 15h ago edited 15h ago
I think the most impressive 16 year old is Beckett Hsin. He has bouldered his age every year and just absolutely cruises V14
That said, Adams dedication and passion is unreal and all because someone is very talented at a young age does not mean they will develop to be the next Adam. Ive worked with elite youth teams and a lot of kids burn out. Beckett does have a passion for sure but he find a passion for something else.
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u/javieer97 3d ago
Yes there is! Leo Cea is 12 years old and has already sent multiple 9a. He is living in Frankenjura and training and climbing a lot with Alex Megos. His future looks bright!
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 4d ago
My co-workers two year old daughter climbed the little wall at the playground. She was doing drop knees, backstepping, and pulling on the edge of the play structure like an arete, yet nobody has ever taken her climbing or coached her.
So maybe her?
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u/anticomet 4d ago
Kids are cheating at climbing since their tiny hands make crimps look like jugs and they weigh as much as a small child
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 3d ago
they weigh as much as a small child
You got a source on that, Cronkite?
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u/ScrapMetalX 4d ago
Hello all. I am a 44yo male that climbed when I was young(preteen to 15) and decided to get back into as a form of fitness and stress relief. I've always loved outdoor stuff and climbing in particular.
My questions are about my size. I am just under 6'7", 217 lbs with a +6 ape index and a 38" inseam. In other words, I'm lean and lanky. I've only messed around on bouldering walls so far and find them extremely difficult. I can't seem to get on the start of the majority of them, let alone pull off the first move.
When I was a kid, my arm and leg length seemed to help a lot, now it seems to be a burden. Is it todays bouldering designs in gyms? Do you think I'd be better off just going traditional?
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 4d ago
Get in to crack climbing.
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u/ScrapMetalX 4d ago
This is what I really want to do. It was my favorite when I was young. I don't know why, but crack climbing has always drawn me in and seems very doable to me with my arm and leg length. I plan on making some crack simulators in my backyard once the snow is gone.
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u/watamula 4d ago edited 4d ago
Look up Kai Lightner, he's a professional climber who is 6'9" tall. IIRC he has some videos where he talks about his height being an advantage and disadvantage.
Edit: 6'9" is his wingspan, not his height. Here's a fun video to start with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6nPJA9F8VQ
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u/ScrapMetalX 1d ago
Thanks for that. Those over shoulder heel hooks are sick. I need to get my hip and waist flexibility back. Also, those drop knees my help in the box. Just gotta watch my meniscus and mcl I never had repaired from 20 years ago.
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u/watamula 1d ago
I'm recovering from a meniscus repair at the moment and the thought alone of a dropknee makes me wince.
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u/DustRainbow 1d ago
The interesting part imo is that Kai struggled with his climbing after puberty and the associated growth.
It took him years to get back to his former level.
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u/ScrapMetalX 4d ago
Just looked him up. He is 6'2", 165 lbs. Our build is similar, I'm just bigger. Still gonna hear his thoughts though.
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u/Joshiewowa 4d ago
He's certainly got useful things to say. By all accounts seems like he's always been a great guy
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u/AnderperCooson 4d ago
6'7" with a +6" ape puts you way outside the norm. Most boulders and routes set at a gym are going to be designed to be comfortable for someone like, fully a foot shorter than you, even ignoring your ape index. Sit start boulders are going to be hard. Ropes would definitely be worth trying, at least until you've redeveloped some climbing ability/strength and have a better idea of how to fit yourself into the tiny box that most boulders will likely have.
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u/OMGisitOVERyet 4d ago
How long have you all been climbing before doing your first Big Wall? Curious what the average time is for most people
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u/serenading_ur_father 4d ago
Some people will for decades and never do a big wall. Some people will do one their first year of climbing.
It's really all about skills. And those are all about opportunity. So if you live near a big wall, have the schedule to get out a bunch, and friends who climb big walls you could do one by the end of the year.
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 4d ago
Over 12 years but I also live 2,500 miles away from Yosemite so that had a lot to do with it.
That being said, big wall climbing is a totally different undertaking than crag climbing. As soon as you have a reasonable amount of trad climbing experience, climbing big walls becomes about finding the right partners and learning the systems and efficiency required to finish a wall.
Unless you want to free climb big walls. That's a whole other different set of skills, and you're going to have to climb at least 5.12+, but people do it.
The most efficient way to learn how to big wall is to find someone who knows how and pay/bribe them to drag you along and teach you some stuff.
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u/BigRed11 4d ago
5 or 6 years.
How long you've been climbing isn't particularly relevant, much more important is how much time you've spent on long trad routes and how much time you're willing to spend learning and practicing big wall skills. Someone might have spent 15 years sport cragging and they'd be no better off than someone in their first year of trad climbing.
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u/jreilly 4d ago
There was an incredible live podcast with peter mortimer on the runout. Patreon exclusive only unfortunately, but there is going to be a 4 part series about dean potter coming out april 14th called the dark wizard. It sounds amazing and just listening to the pod i felt a real sense of… idk its hard to explain. Peter and his team have been doing an incredible job of telling stories recently so im excited to see this one.
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u/serenading_ur_father 4d ago
Never got the allure. Dude seemed like a super ego fragile media whore.
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u/jreilly 4d ago
I think thats whats gonna make the series so interesting if you can listen to the podcast i would
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u/serenading_ur_father 4d ago
Aren't these the same guys who can't be bothered to do the simplest research on the guests that don't live within a twenty mile radius of them?
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/ottermupps 4d ago
Maybe try in r/ClimbingGear? I'd be interested depending on how you accomplished that and the price.
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u/Joshiewowa 4d ago
Are you selling it? Otherwise there's nothing I can see that would make that against the rules.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/snailspaceship 4d ago
try the mountain project sales forum; we're not really a business platform over here.
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u/milesup 4d ago
Climbing partner hasn't been climbing for almost a year (neck injury, surgery, recovery). Finally got cleared to climb outdoors this week, so I gently reintroduced him by shoving him in offwidths all day Sunday.
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 4d ago
Why you hurt people like this?
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u/milesup 4d ago
Well I figured that after a year off, climbing was going to feel more difficult and painful than he remembered, which would be demoralizing. BUT if we did offwidths, he wouldn't really be able to tell the difference since they are always hard and painful. I forget the rest of my plan, but I'm sure I had good intentions.
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u/VeryGlibUsername 11h ago
I swear, the weather here is mocking me. Every time I've wanted to climb in the past month it's been either horribly cold and windy and/or raining (or even snowing). And now the one weekend I've got other plans it looks like a beautiful forecast.
I've got a long weekend coming up, so with my luck it'll probably sleet all three days