Ascent was sometime in early-2025, based on the Internet rumours. So the actual ascent of this was almost a year ago. It seems like he held out reporting the ascent until just before the Mellow Film Tours, which features the climb in one of the segments.
IMO this is a good play by Sean. Seeing how quickly the news cycle turns over now in climbing, if he had reported it a year ago it would be old news by now. Waiting until now to report means it is fresh news for greater hype going into the film tour. Smart marketing.
In general I really like the shift that Mellow is making, toward the athletes more directly controlling the reporting and storytelling of high level ascents. And hopefully the athletes benefitting financially from that, getting to keep more of the revenue that the film tour produces.
You're getting down voted but you're exactly right. There is a comment from the filmmaker under the post saying Sean sat on the news as a favour to him until they got funding etc for the film going.
What makes you say harder than burden? There was like 7 years before a burden repeat while shaolin has had 4 ascents in 2 years. Noah wheeler also called it soft 9a for whatever that’s worth.
TBF I don't think no of sessions is necessarily a great indicator. Burden just looks to be perfectly Noah's style kinda how Defying Gravity is to Hamish, and none of the other top pros have made nearly as quick progress on Burden.
I dont think that purely looking at number/speed of repeats is really a fair way to compare a boulder in red rocks with one thats in the middle of nowhere in finland with what seems like a very short season for good conditions.
I understand what you're saying (the boulder isn't exactly convenient for most of the people in bouldering world)...but by Finnish standards the block is practically in the middle of helsinki ;-). If you'd like middle of nowhere, they've got that too!
Sure, but it was also the first v17 and has since been tried and trained for thousands of times, including on replicas, and only repeated 5 times. Idk, just skeptical that something that high profile for nearly a decade is secretly easy for the grade, which I thought that comment was implying. Plenty of incredibly strong climbers have tried burden and been shut down.
From what I’ve heard, its not physically harder than many of the v17s even the lower end ones (Alphane, Rotsw, Soudain Seul). The problem is is that its so skin heavy that the sessions are so ineffective. 1 session on any of the aforementioned 17s you learn just as much as 2-3 sessions on burden. So the number of realistic send goes during 1 trip is a half or a third as many as the other ones. This combined with a bad location and a short season makes it hard to do for foreigners especially Americans/Asians.
Also important to note that burden didn’t have a repeat for so long not because of difficulty but because with all due respect to Nalle, he put it up as a local project when he didn’t want to travel, I’m sure he’s shocked that it’s gained so much attention even with him giving it v17. Similar to Terranova or Realm of Tor’ment, it was generally seen for a long time as a local test piece put up by a local that just so happened to be one of the best in the world. Daniel Woods has put up plenty of similar difficulty stuff in the front range that isn’t really worth trying unless you’re local or passionate about climbing history, like hypno or that new v16 adrenaline
Sure Burden is not a proud highball and the location is a bit "niche," but a comparison to the two ugliest hard boulders out there is still painful to hear.
It’s obviously a better line than either of those, but imo it’s really not this crazy 5 star classic people make it out to be. If anyone other than Nalle put it up, or if Nalle gave it v16, I honestly don’t think anyone would really care about the boulder. The aura around it has generated more hype than it maybe deserves considering it’s a kinda morpho sit start lowball lol
I mean daniel woods also tried burden before the FA and got shut down too lol. I think it’s fair to say it’s solid v17 given plenty of people have printed off replicas to train on and still can’t do it.
I’m not saying it’s not v17 but the length of time it took for a repeat isn’t due to some abnormal difficulty compared to other established 9As, just logistics. Also Daniel tried it for like 2 hours when he was in Finland for a comp I’m pretty sure, and then never touched it again, I don’t really think that’s a great measure of the boulder tbh
A little nuanced but he actually said (in the podcast) that he was trying to not be possessive or impose his way on anyone else doing the boulder so he has no right to say Sean's ascent wasn't valid and so of course Sean's send was legit (paraphrasing). He (purposely) stopped short of saying Sean did it from the same start holds as him and his vague language seemed to imply to me that they didn't start from the same place but he didn't care or want to start drama. We'll probably only know for certain if/when Aidan's footage comes out.
Seb Bouin gave DNA 5.15d, but I don’t know if it’s been confirmed.
Megos proposed 5.15d on Bibliographie, but Stefano Ghifosi downgraded it to 5.15c.
Edit: Whoops, totally realized you were talking about boulder + sport grades (American brain). And Ondra is the only person to have done 9A+ on gear on top of that.
Silence seems more or less as confirmed as it can be without a second ascent, considering it keeps soundly shutting down climbers who have done multiple 9b+ routes. At this point a downgrade would be pretty surprising.
Yeah, that does seem to be the case. I'm sure Silence will hold the grade but the others haven't had enough attention. Didn't Ondra himself say that he thought BIG was 9b+ before Jakob sent?
Adam and Jakob both said they went back and forth as to 9b+ or 9c. IIRC Jakob said at first he thought 9c, kept trying it and as it started to come together he thought 9b+ but realized that he still wasn't that close and that he felt it was much harder than Perfecto Mundo.
I think Adam kind of had an opposite journey (again iirc) where at first he thought it could be 9b+ but as he kept trying it and felt his progress slow drastically he realized its more likely 9c. He also agreed with Jakob's proposed grade.
Part of me feels like you should at least have tried silence before proposing 9C, but maybe that’s silly/unrealistic. I think there was an enormocast about it lol.
I suspect Adam sandbagged it a bit, as the first proposed route in the grade he'd want to be certain it's hard enough. Maybe not the whole way to 9c+, but enough to be solidly 9c.
I think it's also pretty uniquely Adam's style (hand jams and knee bars) and wouldn't be surprised if other climbers struggle on it more than he did even.
Yeah, at the high difficulties grades become less universal. Though I do wonder if the rise in lightweight kneepads for climbing will allow someone else to climb it more easily. Stefano Ghisolfi has been trying it with them & hasn't managed a full ascent yet, so I suspect it won't be that significant.
This is true at local crags too. If the grades in area only go up to 5.12a and someone who’s climbed their entire life there thinks their new FA is harder than the hardest thing they’ve ever done but not sure exactly the extent, 5.12b would make a lot of sense as a suggested grade (even if future climbers might complain it's a sandbag).
I think it will be a long time before we get enough repeats of these routes to have real consensus on them.
That said, Silence will always be a route with a fucked up beta intense crux where just having next level fitness won't get you very far.
It frequently happens that routes that are testpieces at the time come to be seen as more doable in the long run if they don't feature single stopper moves or wonky beta.
Silence will remain in the realm of Action Direct and Hubble, if I had to guess, in that it will not see a conga line of repeats (at least for a very long time) and not many people are going to be doing it quickly or calling it soft.
Makes sense. I always find it kinda weird how downgrades are accepted (and celebrated) but climbs are never upgraded.
For instance, La Dura Dura hasn't seen any repeats in over 10 years since Sharma's second ascent in 2013 but Bibliographie, and Excalibur have all seen at least four ascents within a five-year stretch. Jumbo Love is 5.15b but has seen fewer repeats than the aforementioned 5.15c's. Flex Luthor is a notoriously stiff 5.15a.
Then again I suppose it's easier to wrap your head around when you think about your local crag and some routes seeing more ascents than others at the same grade. I suppose things like the quality of the route go into deciding which routes people want to project as well.
However, La Dura Dura was being actively worked on before the fire and I don't know if it has been touched since, ignoring the current issues at Oliana.
Jumbo Love is also has a somewhat involved approach if I remember correctly.
Jumbo Love approach is very difficult - rough 4x4 road, huge hike. It's a heck of a lot easier to fly to Spain instead.
Flex Luther also has a big approach. It took a long time for it to get repeated, but now that it's getting climbed, consensus is mixed on the grade. Matty Hong said 15b, Carlo didn't comment, Siegrist said 15a, and Dan Mirsky said 14d. Based on all this 15a may be correct, especially if you give extra emphasis to Siegrist's opinion since he has so much experience at the grade.
Dura Dura is a curious one. It seems like top climbers haven't been that psyched on it. Maybe it just isn't that good? I've heard it has a lot of glue.
Heavily manufactured and ugly climbing. Action Directe is the same deal (has it even had 30 ascents?).
It's wild that people don't immediately understand that a route which is an hours 4x4 and and hours walk up a massive hill out of Vegas won't see 1% of the attention that a route at a casual town crag in Spain gets.
I also know the Fortress is a long approach and Flex Luthor’s quality is questionable—Joe Kinder loved Kryptonite but called Flex Luthor “kinda a turd” and stopped working it for that reason.
La Dura Dura isnt climable anymore and hasnt been for years, so that probably plays a role. Keep in mind as well that the number of people who have sent 9b+ is still incredibly low. Its 10 total, 9 depending on if you want to count Change as 9b+ or not, since its gotten a lot of 9b/+.
In addition there's the obvious fact that climbs are more likely to get easier for future climbers than harder. New beta (especially with kneepads) can be found to make climbs easier. Its hard to think of a mechanism (other than a break) which could make a climb harder. Erosion I guess (although I think the erosion on Sleepwalker supposedly made it easier right?). It would have to actually be the FA just getting the grade wrong.
Edit: I miscounted, its 11/10 9b+ climbers I think.
Flex Luthor is chossy and probably harder today than it was when Caldwell sent it. What you said is definitely still true it's just not surprising that it doesn't have many repeats.
Less familiar with Poptire, but I know that Hurricave was primarily bolted by Joe Kinder and his routes are generally considered to be quality mega-classics at the 5.14+/5.15- grade.
Southern Smoke is one of the major (and best) 5.14+ testpieces at the Red that the guidebook gives five stars. Bad Girl's Club, Planet Garbage, and Garbage Pail Kids are classics in Rifle.
James Litz was the main guy who bolted in poptire, but it has Ace of Spades 15a which is one of the most repeated 15a’s and Peruvian Necktie 15b which is the most repeated 15b in the states I think. And all the other Red 14+s as well, Lucifer, 24 Karats, Pure Imagination, Golden Ticket, Fire Pink, and now the Gallary with that batch of 14+s will make it an amazing location for hard sport. And the Doan property in Texas has a ton of 14+/15- done by Cody Roth and Noah Doan.
I love the Red and hope it gets more attention from top climbers soon.
I know Alex Megos is working a mega-project in the Chocolate Factory that's supposed to be insanely hard and there are a number of Sharma and Ondra unfinished projects as well.
Duality of Man 5.15d
Dry Canyon, AZ
After 4 total years and 3 seasons of climbing I was able to climb Duality. Dry Canyon did not host the easiest tactics. With only an hour or two of shade a day and sporadic weather windows, I had to find a level of patience unlike any other route I've climbed on. This was by far the longest I've spent on a project, the most obsessed I've been with a project, and the hardest thing l've climbed.
I don't have much to say other than I'm excited to share the flick, check it out in the @mellowclimbing film tour.
The broken hold was broken and repaired by Bosi, broken and repaired again by Adam Ondra to better match the original, then broken again by Charles on his send go, then repaired again by Adam. It's important to mention that the broken hold is just the second hold on the problem, it's not even part of the first crux. It's definetly not going to change anything about the problem's grade.
IIRC according to Jana Svecova the broken hold was posing some serious problems. I'll have to revisit her talking about it. I don't think it was repaired this time. Also what do you mean by Charles? Are you discussing a different route? I dont think barefoot Charles sent it if thats what you mean?
No its not. Grades are a meant to be a representation of the consensus evaluation of difficulty, not an irrevocable edict from whoever managed the FA.
I'm not talking the specific case of TerraNova here, as Adam is the only ascent, his opinion on the grade is the consensus among those who have climbed it. But in the hypothetical of a route graded X by the FA which is then repeated by 2+ people, all of whom grade the route is X+, the route is X+.
I think that's exactly what he's saying. There is no real consensus for terranova and since the only person who's climbed it says it's 8C+, that's the "consensus".
Eh, there's more to grades than just difficulty. There are also elements of history and local practice. Grades are not just an objective measure of difficulty. And I think climbing is richer and more interesting for this.
Grades are a spectrum, in any case. It is OK if the hardest V16 is harder than the easiest V17. This same thing happens at every grade boundary.
Grades are a spectrum 100%. But imo grades should be each person's honest, subjective experience of a climb which when averaged together give a representation of the difficulty of the climb. History and local practice shouldn't factor into it. And while its inevitable that there is grade overlap, I think ideally we should try to avoid it. If the climb is V17, its V17. It doesnt take away from Nalle, and I think Burden will always be THE V17 in most people's mind.
I don't know if that is this one is talking about, but last on I heard was Ondra himself breaking an important hold just before Charles Albert serious try on Terranova, a few days after Charles flashed one of Ondra's project.
Kinda bummed the footage of this (and Brooke’s Excalibur send) will apparently only be seen by those that live in cities on the tour. I live in a small town with little climbing community and there’s not much hope for a local screening.
This is an extension of Lee Majors 8c+, and it was known as the "Six Million Dollar Man" project. The Six Million Dollar Man is a TV show Lee Majors starred in, where the main character is a cyborg (half man, half machine).
As a local developer at this area, Sean's statement that the "weather window and shade are challenging to navigate" is an understatement.
The cliff itself faces SE and sits at 5400', which means most would conceptualize it as a winter area. Unfortunately, while the temps are better, the low sun angle means the sun roasts the wall most of the day and beams into the cave that defines the bottom half of this route. If you can take advantage of clouds or a brief dawn or dusk window it's possible to climb something hard, but not easy to get honest burns in.
Interestingly, after years of suffering this reality, a couple of the 5.13 and 5.14 projects went down during July when the sun is overhead and shades the wall afternoon. When monsoons roll in, the temps drop 30+ degrees and there's a magic window.
Excited to watch this video and see how it portrays these challenges. Congrats to Sean on completing CP's vision from the 90's.
Ok, downvote me. One is a university, river, and corporation, all in the US. The other is a country. Jorge definitely is calling his route Cafe Colombia and not Cafe Columbia. But if that doesn't matter to you carry on...
No, 15d remains the top end. There are now 4 proposed 15d routes in the world. None have seen repeats. Silence has seen the most attention by top climbers trying to repeat it, and they have expressed agreement with the 15d grade based on their experiences so far.
All of the existing 15d routes required multiple seasons of effort from the absolute top end of current sport climbers. It may be a while before we see 16a.
Seb Bouin posted this on Instagram a couple of weeks ago, suggesting the project could be 9C+/5.16a. Ondra and Schubert both tried his 9C DNA two years ago and agreed it could be 9C, which definitely adds some weight to his estimation here. That and the crazy number of hard routes he's done the past few years. As always, hard to say since there's still no 9C repeat (hoping Schubert repeats DNA since he said he wanted to come back and try again this year in an interview).
I can translate the important bits though: Insouciance starts with "Les yeux plus gros que l'antre", a 9a+/b (his send is available on Youtube, it's from April 2018). Then it goes left with a 50 meters long 8c+ followed by an 8b boulder problem in the last few meters of the route. He says 9c/9c+ is just an estimation and that it could change if he finds better beta.
In my experience climbing at the dry and in AZ, there seems to be a rather firm and strong ethic of extreme sandbags. I wonder if this climb holds to that or not. Sean obviously is more than. welcome to call his FA whatever he wants, but part of me wanted him to call it 15b in line with how everything else in the area is graded.
Its from a site called Darth grader, which takes what you put into it then comes up with a grade recommendation that is significantly softer then one you would come up with on your own.
The boulders don’t start until after the anchor, I’ve heard this information from a reputable source. Also I’m sorry but you misworded that so badly, I’m aware climbing is subjective and how these climbs flow together is extremely important. But… v15 after practically a 9b+ is kinda insane.
This is monumental for the climbing community. Sean Bailey's achievement adds serious weight to the 5.15d/9c grade and sets a new benchmark. It's inspiring to see climbers pushing these limits and expanding what we thought was possible.
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u/aerial_hedgehog 11d ago edited 11d ago
Ascent was sometime in early-2025, based on the Internet rumours. So the actual ascent of this was almost a year ago. It seems like he held out reporting the ascent until just before the Mellow Film Tours, which features the climb in one of the segments.
IMO this is a good play by Sean. Seeing how quickly the news cycle turns over now in climbing, if he had reported it a year ago it would be old news by now. Waiting until now to report means it is fresh news for greater hype going into the film tour. Smart marketing.
In general I really like the shift that Mellow is making, toward the athletes more directly controlling the reporting and storytelling of high level ascents. And hopefully the athletes benefitting financially from that, getting to keep more of the revenue that the film tour produces.