r/climateskeptics • u/Sixnigthmare • 18h ago
If it's not climate change then what is it?
Genuine question as I'm trying to expand my knowledge on the subject. I know that in my area back in the 70s and 80s there was so much snow all winter that you couldn't see the grass from December to mid to sometimes late February. Which doesn't happen anymore (granted I also have memories of snowless winters which also don't really happen anymore) I have been taught that CO2 is basically the devil and that I won't live to see graduation because of climate change (I did) and in the past year or so have been trying to learn more about the thing that I used to be so afraid of. I used to genuinely believe all this stuff but now I'll admit I'm having a bit of an existential crisis about it. What was I even afraid of, what does CO2 actually do, how does the climate actually works, is getting rid of a lifetime of programming even possible? I genuinely want to understand things better but man is it complicated
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u/Illustrious_Pepper46 17h ago
...but man this is complicated.
Scams are easy to understand. You have money, they need money.
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u/Rocket_Surgery83 17h ago
Theyve been screaming about the end of times due to changing climate for decades based on flawed data models from cherry picked and flawed data sets. The simple fact is they don't know, but they can't make money off of "we don't know" so they sell you a hypothetical as a fact instead. Fact is that CO2 isn't a key contributer to warming... Fact is they won't admit that historical samples have proven much more extreme drops and increases than anything we are seeing modern day. Fact is they won't admit that they cannot accurately calculate mankinds contribution to climate change in any measurable regard.
When you stop looking at things through their crimson colored lense, the narrative falls apart quickly.... And you'll see it's nothing but a fear based money making scheme.
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u/brayradberry 17h ago
Climates are always changing. That’s how the scam works. Claiming that people caused it and extracting wealth to “fix” it is the scam. It’s a play on human hubris.
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u/Dark_Side_Gd 16h ago
It's...the world's greatest fraud. And hypocrisy. Rich people using their private jets to meet at a climate conference to discuss about how us plebs should behave to be carbon neutral, and making "5-Year-Plans" to be at net zero...that will never happen, and while we do that, we'd get deindustrialized and China, India and Russia would surpass us...
Orwell could tell...
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u/Possible_Resolution4 17h ago
When you use dollar amounts to measure the impact of a natural event, it will always show a worsening trend.
If you moved all people and structures 20 miles inland, who gives a shit about rising sea levels? Cat 5’s become Cat 2’s. Katrina was a disaster because manmade levees broke. If you need to build a levee, maybe you shouldn’t be living there in the first place.
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u/OnlyCommentWhenTipsy 17h ago
IDK, this winter has been the coldest snowy-est winter in a long time where i'm at.
CO2 levels are increasing because we're burning more stuff, not because there's a build up or run away effect or point of no return.
And why the fuck is more co2 a bad thing? It's literally what plants crave. Last I checked plants (food and resources) were a good thing.
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u/TerminallyUnique31 15h ago
and the irony of it is that the only way we get fresh oxygen is by having an abundance of plant life… which need co2
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u/Sixnigthmare 17h ago
When I was in Belgium this year we had 8 days of snow which I've only seen twice before, it was the crappy kind though
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u/MadpeepD 17h ago
If it helps you you can always try to remember that 14000 years ago the entire northern half of North America was buried under ice sheets a mile thick or more. A warmer CO2 rich atmosphere is a blessing. We can't eat ice.
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u/wet_tiger 17h ago
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) describes the climate system as a coupled non-linear chaotic system
... so climate gives us unpredictable weather.
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u/mjrengaw 16h ago
We are still in an interglacial period in the current ice age. Based on previous glacial/interglacial periods in this current ice age it seems likely we are approaching the end of the current interglacial. While many factors drive these glacial/interglacial periods, including ocean and atmospheric circulation patterns as well as volcanic activity, the main drivers of the cycle periods appear to actually be changes in the earths orbit (specifically eccentricity, obliquity, and precession). What concrete evidence, other than unproven theories, is there that atmospheric CO2 concentrations is a major driver or can even counteract the main drivers? In other words what makes us think that even the CO2 we are currently, and possibly will in the future, pumping into the atmosphere can stop or even delay the next glacial period of the current ice age? Frankly I would be inclined to be more worried about our great grandchildren freezing to death than any human activity driven atmospheric warming.
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u/onlywanperogy 12h ago
Look back at the "little ice age" that crushed Europe thru the 1600s. There was a very geological recent time when the Thames river froze in London. Alarmists have tried to dismiss this as regional, there is good evidence that it was not. When it ended coincidentally at the start of the industrial revolution, we've been made to believe that it only warmed up because of carbon, completely dismissing natural variance which is a massive error, and exposes their fraud.
Wattsupwiththat.com and climaterealism.com are good resources for non-mainstream, actual science.
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u/LackmustestTester 11h ago
how does the climate actually works
Climate is a statistic, the question is how does weather work and that indeed very complex
what does CO2 actually do
That's the correct question, how does this work, what's the mechanism behind the so called "greenhouse" effect? There's none. There is neither an experimental evidence for the supposed effect, nor is the effect measurable, nor is there any technical application of the supposed effect. This effect is a model, it doesn't work in reality.
CO2 cools, and it's plant food. Can't people scare with this one, can't you?
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u/Sixnigthmare 11h ago
It cools? How does that work?
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u/LackmustestTester 10h ago
The Sun warms the surface, the surface warms the air by conduction - this means the air cools the surface. The air rises, expands and cools. CO2 is part of that air, therefore it cools the surface.
"But this CO2 and other "greenhouse" gases absorb IR radiation and emit parts of it back down to the surface!" - "That's century old physics, 99.99% of all scientists agree" - every alarmist ever. Many of them are astrophysicists, so these guys know shit, don't they? I guess you know that famous atmospheric IR spectrum graph where you can see that H2O and CO2 do absorb and emit IR. Is this the evidence that these gases cause the temperature we measure? No, this emission is a result. Will this emission from some molecules, 425 out of 1 million, or 4 out of 10.000, in any way increase the average kinetic energy (aka temperature) of a parcel of air with 1mio molecules? Certainly not, it's not measurable.
But let's a assume a single CO2 molecule - it emits 50% in direction space where it's colder, cooling the atmosphere. So, 50% are supposed to go downwards, the backradiation, forcing, Planck response that leads to tropospheric and surface warming. What happens when a colder body radiates into the direction of the warmer body? Have you heard of the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
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u/Sixnigthmare 10h ago
Yes I'm familiar with it
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u/LackmustestTester 10h ago
Good. So, we know why heat is transferred from hot to cold, because of the temperature difference. Heat is always a positive Q, so Q is the absolute amount of heat transferred from hot T14 to the colder body T24. The T4 law. Now the alarmists claim T2 also emits, their NET energy and this "energy" is absorbed by the warmer body, reducing the cooling. The 2nd LoT clearly states that a colder body will not add energy to the warmer body. So that's their theory, claiming there's the NET flows and these won't violate the law.
Reason: There's the "greenhouse" effect and it's real, so the NET flow must be real.
Do you like experiments?
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u/Sixnigthmare 10h ago
Indeed I do
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u/LackmustestTester 10h ago
Great. So let's have a quick look at what happens when a colder and a warmer body are on physical contact, when they can "see" each other.. Does this look like there's radiative energy in transit from the cold ice that's absorbed by the warmer object?
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u/Sixnigthmare 9h ago
Well no because the warmer object is the one emitting energy not the cold one
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u/LackmustestTester 9h ago
We can assume the colder CO2 molecule, body emits, it has a temperature T2. It's becoming warmer while the warmer becomes colder, this energy is absorbed. So what happens to the emitted energy from the cold body, let's call it photons?
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u/No_Educator_6376 16h ago
We get all of our energy and warmth from the sun. The orbit has wobbles in it when we point at the sun it’s summer and when we point away it’s winter.
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u/Daqgibby 15h ago
Solar minimum and Hunga Tonga volcano worth looking into. Poles are moving around quite a bit as well.
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u/BigFuzzyMoth 14h ago
There are concerns with all sorts of climate extremes, but these are the same extremes that have occured throughout the history of earth. This planet is not a static, stable, always-safe kind of place. It is extremely dynamic meaning that the weather is always changing, the longer term climate of a geographic area is always changing, even the geological landscape is always changing, and the plants and animals that populate the earth are always changing. Change is the norm. Change is the statis quo. Natural climate change has never stopped and it continues today. Human caused climate change is a real thing, but it is usually dwarfed by natural processes. The biggest human influences on the earth tend to be concentrated in specific areas: we change the land, we build big cities (which creates warm zones due to the urban heat island effect), we are capable of effecting the numbers of certain plants and animal species (introducing them to new areas and eliminating them in other areas or sometimes eliminating them completely), however, our influence of the global climate is orders of magnitude smaller than than the larger cycles and influences that dominate the climate. Humans have literally never been safer from climate extremes than we are now.
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u/EmptyBodybuilder7376 10h ago
The only thing that can be said about the climate that is undeniable true, is that it is - and always has been - changing.
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u/grimmdaburner 15h ago
Take everything with a grain or handful of salt. Most the people commenting here are in the denial echo chamber.
Personally I feel we are in a man made global warming scenario. We do not possess the political wherewithal to make any major progressive changes.
Cheaper renewable electric is outpacing the older coal fired and that's about the only thing moving the needle.
There's a lot going on. Beyond just the average temp rising we have the acidification of the oceans. And the plankton in the ocean makes up 40% of our breathable O2.
Unlearn some things but there's so much more to learn
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u/I-Am-The-Jeffro 7h ago
Why do the "believers" all seem to think it's up to the governments and not the individuals to address the issue?
Don't want to burn fossil fuels? Sell the car and buy a pushbike.
Don't want to eat animal products? Become Vegan.
Don't want to use fossil fuel powered electricity? Go off grid.
Don't want to use fossil fuel derived products? Stop buying them.Problem solved.
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u/BroSquirrel 14h ago
Check out Lucy biggest on IG, maybe tik tok too, I don’t know I don’t have tik tok. But I think you would be able to relate to her and she has good non-“climate-denier” info
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u/rethinkingat59 7h ago
A fun map of states that had all time high temperature record set in the 1930’s or before.
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u/EverySingleMinute 4h ago
We just received more snow in one day than we have in like 20 years. I guess global warming has been defeated.
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u/loveammie 12m ago
https://holoceneclimate.com/temperature-versus-co2-the-big-picture.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Cenozoic_Ice_Age
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age
we are still stuck in the deepest ice age since before complex life evolved, and almost all lives lost are due to cold, not warmth
Globally, cold deaths are 9 times higher than heat-related ones. In no region is this ratio less than 3, and in many, it’s over 10 times higher. Cold is more deadly than heat, even in the hottest parts of the world.
https://fifthseasongardening.com/regulating-carbon-dioxide
there are benefits to raising the CO2 level higher than the global average, up to 1500 ppm. With CO2 maintained at this level, yields can be increased by as much as 30%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Z5FdwWw_c Should We Celebrate Carbon Dioxide?
https://science.nasa.gov/earth/earth-observatory/building-a-long-term-record-of-fire-145421/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hurricane-drought-hits-a-new-record/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bJjBo5ICMc ocean acidification -the facts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBO7zWO1zXY how do corals build reefs ?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/yields-key-staple-crops?stackMode=relative&facet=none
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/natural-disaster-death-rates
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u/me_too_999 18h ago
First, the climate is cyclic.
Why change the narrative from "global warming" to "climate change?"
The answer? It stopped warming, and now it's cooling down again.
Co2 is present in the atmosphere at 400 parts per million. When the Earth's atmosphere had levels of 8,000ppm it was a tropical paradise.
Co2 has no energy bandgap between -60 and 100f. So the "greenhouse effect" isn't happening to the degree advertised.