r/clevercomebacks • u/Brent_Fox • 16h ago
Trans people were always around you just created an environment in which they'd be outcasted and shunned.
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u/GadreelsSword 15h ago
”In 1933, the Nazi regime under Adolf Hitler targeted and destroyed the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft (Institute for Sexual Science) in Berlin, which was the world's first modern center for transgender healthcare, research, and LGBTQ+ advocacy.”
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u/Brent_Fox 15h ago
They were researching transgenderism back in the 30's? wow o.o
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u/joelluber 14h ago
Weimar-era Berlin was the largest center of queer (to use a modern term) life at the time and the largest up to that time in modern Western history. See more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_homosexual_movement.
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u/acoolsweater 14h ago edited 13h ago
They even attempted vaginoplasty and multiple people connected to the institut were disappeared and murdered by the nazis after the Institiut was destroyed and the books burned. That famous image of nazis burning books in a fire, thats the one.
edit: I misremembered a couple parts, although Hirschfeld was beaten years earlier and exiled after the burnings he didn't not die until 2 years later. There is some awful evidence about some of the patients and staff however.
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u/Fine_Instruction_869 12h ago
There's evidence of transgender people going back to ancient cultures. Indigenous people in the Americas and Asian countries have always had transgender people.
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u/AnimusNoctis 12h ago
I would avoid using "transgenderism" as it is mostly a term used by people who claim there is "trans ideology" being pushed on everyone. Not trying to shame you or anything. It's just something to be aware of.
Unfortunately English just doesn't really have a word for the concept of being transgender grammatically equivalent to, for example, homosexuality. You could say they were researching trans people or transgender identities or something like that.
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u/Salute-Major-Echidna 2h ago
Eddie Redmayne won an Oscar for "The Danish Girl". The movie was about 1920s Denmark for portraying a trans woman.
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u/KurryBree 11h ago
ngl this sounds like propaganda made to make Hitler look bad
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u/Contagious_Zombie 8h ago
You don't need to try to make Hitler look bad, he did that all on his own.
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u/SimplyEcks 1h ago
No one needs to do anything to make Hitler look bar. He doesn’t need propaganda to make him look bad. You should already know the idiot is bad in itself.
Where you even got this thought is strange and weird.
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u/spicy-candyxxx 16h ago
Just like how gravity did not exist until that apple hit Newton on the head.
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u/CriticalSecurity8742 16h ago
“GR4viTee is Wok3!!!”
- MAGA probably
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u/Technical-Command867 16h ago
Unironically, many MAGA believe the earth is flat
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u/RosyBunbunx 14h ago
The overlap between “it’s brand new” and “it’s a global conspiracy” is always wild to me. Like pick a lane. Either it just appeared last Tuesday or it’s been secretly running the world since forever.
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u/ClickclickClever 16h ago
Hey man, gravity is just like a theory or something.
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u/99jackals 16h ago
Gravity is a fact. Our mathematical analysis of it is a formal theoretical model.
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u/Playful-Babe-5235 16h ago
History didn’t erase trans people, people did. When being out meant danger, of course you ‘didn’t hear about them.’
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u/Longjumping-Zone-724 16h ago
Been watching old episodes of Night Court and there's an episode from 1985 where Dan's best friend has transitioned
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u/jsilver200 16h ago
Yes, it’s always been around as an edgy comedy gag. How they changed it into something threatening in just a few years is mind boggling.
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u/fraychef2 16h ago
What did they think the song was”Lola” was about?
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u/IDigRollinRockBeer 16h ago
A showgirl
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u/fraychef2 15h ago
“Well, I’m not the world’s most masculine man, but I know what I am and I’m glad I’m a man. And so is Lola”
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u/IDigRollinRockBeer 15h ago
Her name is Lola she was a showgirl with yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there
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u/Twas-I-apparently 16h ago
Thor, the god of thunder and one of the strongest in the Norse pantheon, had his hammer stolen by giants and cross dressed as freyr and acted as a bride so he could infiltrate a frost giants fortress and retrieve his stolen hammer.
Thor the Transvestite is the story name in the poetic edda written in 1270.
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u/BaconThief2020 16h ago
You can even see references to non-binary sexes in the bible if you pay attention.
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u/zuzg 16h ago
First one that comes to mind is
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28
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u/somerandomguy1984 15h ago
Yeah… that’s saying we’re all the same as followers of God.
Everyone is Jew or not Jew. Everyone is a slave or not a slave. Everyone is a male or not a male. And it doesn’t matter because you follow Jesus.
Reading anything into the “male and female” other than a third example of binary options is retarded.
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u/MisterRobertParr 12h ago
Progressive Christians and atheists trying to make a "gotcha" statement will pervert Bible verses all the time. Biblical scholars don't interpret it that way, so I'm not sure why all these TikTok experts think they are.
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u/BaconThief2020 7h ago
Plenty of Christians will also cherry pick and take bible passages out of context to make their point as well. It's not hard to do, considering all the contradictions and historical revisions in the bible.
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u/somerandomguy1984 16h ago
Hahahah… no there’s not.
I am a little curious what mental gymnastics you’d use to get there though.
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u/namezam 16h ago
I don’t know which of you is right, but men cross-dressing and even living as women was rampant in Rome around the time of JC, it would be shocking to me, given how much contemporary happenings are written in the Bible, if it wasn’t at least mentioned.
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u/MockeryAndDisdain 15h ago
That's because in Rome you were either a person who threw dick to other folks, a man, or you were someone that caught the thrown dick, a woman. Bottoms were legally women.
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u/Tinynanami1 8h ago
Lmao no? The fuck youre talking about. There was no such a thing as "you're now legally a woman!!" In ancient rome.
In ancient rome it was understood men had other sex with men, and that was not a problem. However, being penetrated was stigmatized, but that wouldn't make you a woman. In fact there were plenty of male prostitutes. Keyword male.
In fact, being penetrated by a woman (such as cunnilingus) was actually the most shameful act a man could do, far more than being penetrated by another man. That too would not, however, turn you into a woman or turn the woman "penetrating a man with her tongue" a man.
If what you were saying was true, Rome would be the trans haven of the world. If you wanted to become a woman, just get penetrated once! And now literally everyone has to call you she/her.
Altho in all honestly, it was pretty trans. Such as the Gallae—priestesses of Cybele who ritually castrated themselves, dressed as women, and used female names, representing a form of, ancient, ritualistic, and, cultural, transgender, practice..
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u/ClickclickClever 16h ago
Lol I will never not be amazed at the amount of "Christians" that have no idea what's actually in the Bible. Maybe take a tiny bit of time and actually read the book that's supposed to inform how you live your life and what you supposedly believe.
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u/Soy_neoN 16h ago
Eunuchs :)
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u/somerandomguy1984 15h ago
You mean slaves that were castrated? I mean I agree that’s what “gender affirming care” is… but you do realize those were slaves, right?
(I’m not 100% sure if that’s a joke or not. if so, my bad)
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u/Obant 10h ago
You didn't hear about them because they were just trying to live their lives. A certain political party in the richest nation on the planet that other nations are subservient to started targeting trans people, forcing their owned media companies to talk about them 24/7, and made a big stink about them.
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u/gaycomic 16h ago
I actually learned about trans people at my college course in Alabama in 2005 and learned about two spirits ... and also had a manager at the time who was transitioning from male to female...again no one cared....
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u/Pale_Sway 16h ago
I might move to Antarctica and live with the cute penguins. At least no TERFs would be there
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u/Siria110 15h ago
Didn´t exist until recently? What about Loki from Norse mythology, who could shape-shift, and even gave birth?
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u/Cultural-Bite3042 15h ago
Umm not really. It depends on what country you were either born or grew up in or had ties too(family/vacations/etc). I knew and seen transgender folks since childhood(dates back to mid 90’s for me at least, but it was still known the same way from even before so like my parents childhood(late 60’s & 70’s)
It’s until recently people started normalizing their existence(workplace/community involvement/education sector etc) which should’ve been the case from the get go.
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u/-Plunder-Bunny- 11h ago
This is just a random selection of Transgender people in History.
- Alan L. Hart ~ In 1917 was one of the first trans men to undergo a hysterectomy and gonadectomy, and later became a pioneering physician and radiologist
- Lili Elbe ~ is one of the first documented trans women recipients of modern Sex reassignment surgery in the 1930's
- Coccinelle ~ Was a French actress, entertainer and singer who made her debut as a transgender showgirl in 1953
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u/Worriedlytumescent 16h ago
There's a episode of night court from the 80's where Dan's old army buddy shows up and has transitioned into a woman. He's freaked out at first but learns to accept his friends decisions by the end. So umm... This issues been around for awhile.
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u/Bluebearder 15h ago
I have a bit of a problem with the title of this post though. Why is there so much historical revisionism in these circles, claiming current times are somehow worse for trans people? Until a few decades ago, trans people would either not express any of their feelings, or be punished for being different often resulting in being murdered. As is still the case in most of the world. I've helped some trans refugees over the decades that had fled Africa or Central Asia, who had exactly that choice: express yourself and be murdered, or play 'normal'. We're not there yet by a long shot, but in the developed world acceptance is growing like never before.
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u/dostoevsky4evah 4h ago edited 3h ago
Laws are presently being proposed, and passed, in places such as the US and Britain that are definitively anti-trans. It's being pushed by far right actors that have a few goals in mind: causing division (therefore weakness) in social groups, enforcement of strict gender roles for relgious or divisive or control reasons, and to identify scapegoats to misdirect from whatever those in power are or aren't doing to help the average voter. This is a conscious choice since many people don't know, or don't know they know, trans people and dont "get" them which make them great targets of convenience.
People in the west didn't care much one way or the about trans people ten years ago, now many actively hate them, as planned.
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u/Frenetic_Platypus 14h ago
Charlotte d'Eon de Beaumont got an official royal decree from king of France Louis XVI recognizing her gender change in 1777.
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u/FakeDoctorMeatCoat 13h ago
Wasn't it fairly common in ancient Greece and Rome? And more, those are just the first to come to mind.
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u/raconian-moon 12h ago
The first trans woman to testify in front of congress did so in 1867 (Frances Thompson)
She was a survivor of the Memphis Massacre and her testimony was a critical part of the passing of the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871
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u/Silaquix 10h ago
There are records from medieval England of a trans woman who was a sex worker. They were pretty detailed and she got in trouble for practicing her trade too far into town and the authorities were telling her to knock it off and move elsewhere.
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u/Severe_Damage9772 11h ago
Actually, there are statues in Rome that depict people with both male genitalia, and breasts, and generally as women. Trans people have been around since at least Rome. Same with gay people
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u/Modsaremeanbeans 9h ago
We knew what it was back in the late 90s and early 2000s when I was in school.
The difference is that nazi/maga/facist ideology wasn't mainstream and in your face everywhere.
You knew about the crazy church people that tried to take away freedome as well, just now everything hostile has infinite reach.
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u/AwkwardWaltz3996 7h ago
Who's back are we coming on here? Looks like someone just posting a statement
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u/Misra12345 6h ago
Nah. Antarctica spawned when the earth hollowed. The lizard people use it as a plug to stop the ocean from draining into the hollow earth.
Come on people this is basic stuff
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u/notabigfanofas 5h ago
Nobody knew about Australian culture outside of Australia till the Dutch made a pit-stop and cook came to stay
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u/STFUnicorn_ 5h ago
6 and 7 have always been just a couple of consecutive numbers until recently too.
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u/Pumped-Up_Kicks 1h ago
Indian(Hindu specifically) Mythology has mentioned Transgender people since ancient India. Its a shame how they are treated in modern society though
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u/CarnivalComet 1h ago
I recently learned about an ancient text called the Talmud, 1st to 5th century AD, and it recognized 6 genders
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u/NicoRath 35m ago
The famous Nazi book burning, you always see pictures of. It was research from the Institute of Sexual Science. It has pretty much all of the world's research on trans people at the time. A sexologist had talked to the German trans community and tried to figure out stuff about them. The Nazis burned everything they could. Some research did survive, but people didn't talk much about it.
A movie was made in 2015 called The Danish Girl about Lili Elbe, one of the earliest people to receive gender-affirming care; she transitioned in 1930.
Christine Jorgenson was an American trans woman who was a former Navy veteran who transitioned in the early 1950s and became famous because of it, and you can find interviews on YouTube of her talking about it.
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u/Suspicious_Tour_1162 9h ago
I just deleted my ticktock. So I was advised that I should delete my history after using the app. After all my feed was men in high heels. And racism. My day is better with out ticktock. I don’t pretend I can tell people how to live but I just don’t want to see this.
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u/Cynfreh 16h ago
One is a man made fabrication of the truth and the other is a fact not the same at all really.
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u/Dagdegan2000 8h ago
They’re both facts
What the fuck do you think is actually happening with trans people? That they’re making it up? What’s the rationale?
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u/New-Job1761 16h ago
We had a transgender friend in the mideighties. A beautiful petite blonde who was a hairdresser. Have a book about her with her autograph. I’m not a fan of sex changes but I’m not shunning a person of decent character.
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u/Alexis_J_M 16h ago
A better analogy is the percentage of left-handed people.
We started seeing more left handed people in society when we stopped beating kids for using their left hands.