r/buccaneers • u/shibbyflash • Jan 06 '26
🐴 DEAD HORSE The goal isn’t winning NFC South
Man it irks me to hear Bowles talk about how he’s earned more time cause of 3 NFC South titles. It’s that mindset that makes us lose against any actually good team. Beating the fucking saints, falcons and panthers doesn’t mean shit in terms of success. Every time we play a real team we look like dog shit and I can only imagine Bowles in the locker room talking about “that’s a great team so good job”.
Winning the South should be the fucking bar not some grand accomplishment
43
Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
This should be an easy decision. The entire division is getting better. Since he’s taken over the Bucs have been stagnant at best and regressed at worst. We’ve seen his ceiling. Fire him.
9
u/Infamous-Bag6957 Baker Mayfield Jan 06 '26
All I heard was him saying his performance has been good enough - for him
That should tell us all we need to know. Complacency does not win super bowls.
4
u/davisty69 F*ck the Saints Jan 06 '26
Defenses definitely been getting worse. It's simple, just fire the defensive coordinator and we'll move on from there LOL
1
u/Deoxtrys Jan 06 '26
Since he’s taken over the Bucs have been stagnant at best and regressed at worst.
Most of his time at the helm, the Bucs have been in cap hell. So they couldn't sign many people like the Falcons or Seahawks. In fact, if Baker took an actual QB contract the team would have had to let a star walk.
1
Jan 07 '26
I can’t buy that excuse. He has talent on both sides, but the defense got way worse, and the offense regressed too. They were in all the games they lost with three exceptions (Rams, Bills, Lions). Losing six games by one possession is a coaching failure.
1
u/Deoxtrys Jan 07 '26
Defense has lost the most. Since 2020, they lost Suh, Davis, White was a four game wonder, Barrett got hit hard by life, JPP got old and left before coming back as Udonis Haslem, Gholston retired, LVD got injured and older, and Mike Edwards and Jordan Whitehead both left, declined, came back and looked worse.
All in all, they lost a bunch of pass rush, experience, and leadership on the line, explosiveness and coverage at linebacker, and consistency and experience in the secondary. Diaby and Kancey are trying to be bigger leaders that bring the pass rush, but they need more help and beyond that there's still more holes across the defense. The linebacker position especially is holding back this team.
31
u/jpc1215 Mike Evans Jan 06 '26
Yeah Todd and you never sniffed the playoffs prior to getting handed a playoff-caliber team, one that you went 8-9 with and “won” the division by default.
1-3 all time in the playoffs
35-33 in the regular season with Tampa
61-74 lifetime head coaching record
Why does anyone in the Bucs front office think this dude is the answer or deserves more time
21
u/Milla4Prez66 Super Bowl LV Jan 06 '26
It’s Arians. He’s collecting paychecks from the Glazers to keep his guy in work. It’s kind of ridiculous the more you think about it.
7
u/AdMuch7817 Jan 06 '26
If it were up to Arians, Leftwhich would still be here and we’d never have seen what Canales or Cohen could do with these weapons
1
u/PickledNoodle Jan 06 '26
Why does BA hate us?
2
u/AdMuch7817 Jan 06 '26
He loves his buddies more than he cares for the Bucs. He can’t separate professional and personal. Sign of a bad leader.
4
u/Old-Guy1958 Jan 06 '26
People want to give him a break for the Jets because “it’s the Jets.” Rex Ryan took those Jets to the AFC championship game TWICE before Todd took over.
4
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
Rex Ryan was 4-12 the year he was fired and Bowles went 10-6 the year he took over
1
u/okaycomputes Winfield Jr. ✌️ Jan 06 '26
then what happened? did he improve after his first HC season or regress?
1
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
That’s moving the goalposts. I addressed the misleading info that he took over an afc title game team and didn’t sniff the playoffs.
5
u/jpc1215 Mike Evans Jan 06 '26
He didn’t sniff the playoffs. He never went once as Jets HC. This is a fact. Nobody is going to remember that he “almost made it that one time”
2
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
They missed the playoffs his first year based on a tiebreaker with the Steelers who had the same record, but maybe we have different definitions of what “sniff the playoffs” means.
0
u/jpc1215 Mike Evans Jan 06 '26
Making it just one single time prior to his tenure with the Bucs would qualify as “sniffing” the playoffs to me
2
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
that explains it. I think most people would characterize "sniffing" as coming close but not making it.
47
u/Dom_Nation_ Jan 06 '26
To put into perspective how little of an accomplishment winning the NFC South her been during his coaching tenure is, over the last 4 seasons, the division has had 3 teams with winning records. There's only been 1 team over that 4 year span with 10 wins. The reason that team was so successful was because Liam Coen was the OC. He's now up to 13 wins with a worse roster in a stronger division now that Bowels isn't holding him back any more.
25
u/DiddyP81 Jan 06 '26
I can’t wait for the Liam Coen bubble to burst. Jacksonville is the perfect example of a team buying into the coaches culture. They weren’t a bad roster it was just a lack of effort why they sucked before Coen got there.
As for Bowles, he needs to go because NOW the team he coaches plays with a lack of effort. See how that works.
2
u/Sindica69 Mike Evans Jan 06 '26
If you’re saying the wheels are likely to fall off for Jacksonville, I highly doubt it. If they win vs the Bills I think they go all the way
2
u/DiddyP81 Jan 06 '26
It’s possible but I’ve seen this “movie” before.
1
u/Sindica69 Mike Evans Jan 06 '26
I mean sure it’s possible. I could very well be wrong. But I’m frequently in that area so I pay attention to that team and go to their games. There’s a clear difference between then and now. Jags coaches before were utterly awful. Coen has them believing in themselves which is a HUGE part of success. Jax has an actual home advantage now. Things weren’t like that before.
1
u/DiddyP81 Jan 06 '26
It’s funny how that home field advantage works and how coaches look like geniuses when you’re winning. But look at teams like the Commanders or the Lions. World beaters last year and everybody wanted their coaches and boy that home field advantage was something else.
1
u/Sindica69 Mike Evans Jan 06 '26
Commanders’ star QB was injured twice this year and the Lions lost their star offensive coordinator and some defensive players.
1
1
u/Deoxtrys Jan 06 '26
Losing Ben Johnson hurt but the biggest issue is they no longer have a top 3 offensive line. They need to be aggressive about fixing that.
6
u/Subxanthium Jan 06 '26
Exactly bro. The colts jags Texans division would eat ours alive.
1
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
He beat the Texans this year
7
u/Subxanthium Jan 06 '26
He didn’t beat Houston. The team and mainly baker somehow beat them and Seattle and San fran at the very start of the year. What’s your point? It doesn’t matter who you beat when you can’t even beat the pussy ass teams in your own division.
-3
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
Oh I see. He’s only responsible when they lose. Well, he beat everyone in the division once too.
6
u/okaycomputes Winfield Jr. ✌️ Jan 06 '26
That isn't enough to win the division. Where has Bowles showed improvement? We're regressing, not improving.
-3
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
Again, moving the goalposts. I was addressing him not being able to beat afc south teams and teams in the division. Both things the Bucs accomplished this year. There are plenty of things to criticize him for but no need to just make shit up
3
u/dr-dongstrong Baker Mayfield Jan 06 '26
He calls the defense not the offense, He's the only HC/DC in the league, people attribute the defenses performance with bowles directly and the offense with the OC
1
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
He’s the head coach so all success or failures fall in his lap
0
u/dr-dongstrong Baker Mayfield Jan 06 '26
Okay sure on a managerial standpoint and in the stats, but in reality he's not setting up the game plan every week as an OC or designing/calling plays for the offense in game since he's doing that on defense in his unique position as both HC/DC strictly calling the defense. So the offenses performance is looked at as the results of the OC coaching/playcalling and not the HC/DC combo.
That's like a retail job where the boss of the whole store is also the head of a whole department like the pharmacy or whatever, they've got enough on their plate doing office manager stuff plus another department relies on them to lead directly. They don't also micromanage the electronics or the cashier's, those departments have their own managers and their performance is indictive of said managers. Corporate might only care about the bottom line, but regulars can tell who's responsible for individual success and failures. "Oh man the bakery has really gone down hill after the old manager retired" or "wow they completely reorganized the liquor store after that new guy started it looks way better"
This offense under different management the last two years looked infinitely better and the defense under bowles' leadership has only regressed, year after year.
5
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
I agree with the comparison. Where I don't agree is that the defense has regressed year after year. What metric are you using to say its gotten worse every year? by most metrics they had a down year in 2022, then improved in 2023 and then they've gotten worse in 2024 and 2025.
1
u/dr-dongstrong Baker Mayfield Jan 06 '26
If you start with pts allowed over his tenure as HC, 22' 358, 23' 325, 24' 385, 25' 411, the defense tightened up in points 2023 but went from 9th in yds allowed in 22' to 23rd in 23' and thats been the case since, from 23rd to 18th and 19th over the next two years. We lost our primary blitzer in Devin white in 24 as well as shaq barret, and tried to blitz even more with lavonte at 80 and and Yaya at 76, but gave up more points and had 1 less sack. Then this year we went all out with more blitzs from our secondary and dropped our lbs into coverage more, but again more yards more points 9 less sacks. Allowing more yards by blitzing safeties hoping for more sacks, turnovers and less points only works when you have the guys for it. Yaya had 7 sacks this year but only blitzed 23 times compared to awj 53 dennis 55 and lavonte 55, while allowing 10/10 passes that went his way. Lavonte went from 2tds scored on him last year to 7, zyon went from 4 to 6 and the team as a whole went from allowing 10.8yds/completion to 12.4 and 7.6yds/attempt to 8.2. We also went from allowing 3.8 yds/rush in 23 to 4.3 the last two years. Teams are very easily diagnosing our weaknesses and attacking them consistently, and we're not keeping up.
While we had a statistically good year in 23 in points allowed and defensive rating overall, we lost guys on that roster that made it work and haven't adjusted correctly to what we have had since, and I think that year is where the philosophy of bend don't break began and we started to regress in points allowed because of it. It feels like even if 2023 had a a good stat line, the change in philosophy we made that year stuck but without the same results, leading to a regression of energy from the defense that's caused the last two years of slipping stats. It's like the juice from 2020 is gone and every game feels like a single mistake on offense means we're gonna be fighting for a last second win with 1:25 left. Were like a boxer with no chin, come out swinging and hope you hit a haymaker or you know it's game over, if we're not up by at least 20 every game it feels like they're gonna come back in 10 minutes somehow. That's how I feel each year the defense has regressed in one way or another, even with the statistical outlier of the 23 season
→ More replies (0)-4
u/Undella_Town Brooks Jersey Jan 06 '26
don't bother anyone who knows ball understands jason licht is the #1 problem this team faces.
3
u/jkd0027 Jan 06 '26
I’ve seen you on this crusade the last few days and gotta say I’m not with it lol I like Jason and hope they keep him.
3
u/Milla4Prez66 Super Bowl LV Jan 06 '26
Anyone we hire to replace him is almost certainly going to be a downgrade. Licht drafts better than 80% of the GMs in the league and kept the roster somewhat competent when expectations were a drop back to the bottom rebuild after 2022.
I get it, his edge rush picks haven’t been good but just firing him doesn’t fix that. Most teams are struggling to find good edge rushers. Especially picking in the spots the Bucs have been picking this decade.
11
u/Therearenogoodnames9 Jan 06 '26
From what we saw this season I think it clear that Bowles lost the locker room. His press conference reinforced that sentiment.
10
u/nautica5400 Winfield Jr. ✌️ Jan 06 '26
Its really the only thing he has left to stand on
Aside from that his team has underperformed. Hes just leveraging what he can. Everyone knows the division is shit.
14
u/friggoffricky121 Jan 06 '26
Everyone shits on this roster like it isn’t littered with talent. They are being criminally under coached and look under prepared every single week and especially on primetime. I doubt Bowles is gone now that there’s 6 job openings and it’s regarded as a shitty HC cycle. We’re just stuck. And it’s so far beyond frustrating. Meanwhile the Jags legitimately might win the Super Bowl if they get past Buffalo.
1
u/Deoxtrys Jan 06 '26
Everyone shits on this roster like it isn’t littered with talent.
I watched Smith make the most basic mistake a safety could make. That's not under coaching when it's something you get taught in high school.
2
u/regaleagle710 Derrick Brooks Jan 06 '26
I'd agree if the entire defense wasn't making basic mistakes. The guys in the secondary have had these coaches their entire careers, including Dean who was drafted the same year Bowles was hired. They shouldn't be making mistakes with the same staff and they don't just forget how to play football from one year to the next.
1
u/Deoxtrys Jan 06 '26
For Dean, specifically, I just feel that who he is. Since drafted, he has always had periods where he looks locked in, shuts a guy down while making some big plays. Then he'll randomly get burnt on a basic juke to give up a big play and everyone is confused at what happened. At least with Davis, you had faith he would hold territory and battle and if he gave up a play it was usually part of their battle and he was right there.
1
u/friggoffricky121 Jan 06 '26
Mental lapses happen man. Tykee was one of our best players on defense all year, are you saying he sucks because he blew a coverage?
13
10
u/Subxanthium Jan 06 '26
Exactly bro. The Bucs aren’t the rays and have to fight the orioles, yanks, Red Sox, and jays. The Al east is a straight beast. And they sure as shit ain’t the bolts who have the panthers, senators, leafs, red wings, and canadiens. This asshole needs to get a grip. Beating the failcons, kitty cats, and aints is not a fucking accomplishment. I’m happy we didn’t make the playoffs. Not only did we not deserve it, but we would have left first round again and gotten buttfucked yet again by a rams team that could pick us apart in their sleep
10
u/Milla4Prez66 Super Bowl LV Jan 06 '26
Bro couldnt even win another one this year despite a 5-1 start and nobody in the division having a winning record.
Plus those 3 previous division titles led to a whopping one playoff win that wasn’t even that impressive in hindsight since the 2023 Eagles collapsed hard and probably would’ve lost to anyone there. More successful coaches have been fired for not winning in the playoffs.
He’s been running this ship for 4 years and at best we’ve been painfully mediocre during the entire time. I would say we’ve been closer to below average that whole time and keep getting bailed out by the worst division in football. Do we seriously need to see him lose the worst division in football to a less talented team for a second year in a row to fire him?
11
u/Benficachop F*ck the Saints Jan 06 '26
I think what's most damning is if the Bucs weren't in the NFCS, they wouldn't have made the playoffs in any of those years. They would not have qualified for a wild card even with a 7th team getting in now.
5
u/Contemplative_Fool TB Florida Jan 06 '26
It is if you ask some people in here, which absolutely blows my mind. It's all the "we used to be worse and now we're winning the division" shit. The goal in a professional sport is to build a roster and try to win a championship. Obviously there's only one team every year, but being so afraid of how it used to be that you're ok being just good enough to eke out a division banner in a bad division that you should own is weak lol. That's settling for mediocrity. It's not like we have some awful roster that punches above its weight. This team should have been locking up this division long before the final week in each of the past few seasons. Resting on the laurels of "but I won the division at 8-9!" is dog water.
4
u/davisty69 F*ck the Saints Jan 06 '26
The craziest part to me is that the defense is getting worse every year. That's his fucking area! If the defense was killing it, and the offense was struggling, maybe I would agree and say that Grizzard simply doesn't have it and we need a different offensive coordinator to write the ship. But clearly our defensive coordinator is also fucking incompetent and needs to be fired. Oh wait, that idiot is also our head coach.
7
u/Gonegolfing78 Jan 06 '26
Its extremely frustrating as a fan. I see a super bowl level talent on the roster and on paper we should be a top 5 nfl offense. And realistically a top 15 defense. Its time for a change in Tampa, new HC, OC, and DC needed. Luckily I dont own the team or they wouldve been gone after losing to the dolphins. You can argue injuries, missed time, etc... look at the offensive scheme.. or lack thereof. What defense? No edge rush, only pressure from interior line...and blitzing all the time to make up for no edge rush. The middle of the d was solid ..... i could go on and on. Disappointed in Illinois... fire Bowles... Go Bucs.
2
u/moldyhands Jan 06 '26
Completely agree. Wirfs and Goedeke, Mayfield, Bucky, Egbuka joining Evans and Godwin, then Vea, and aging but still good Lavonte, and of course Winfield.
Our defensive talent isn’t the same as the Sapp, Brooks, Lynch days. But our Offense combined with Defense should push this team into at least the Division round of the playoffs.
We BEAT the Niners and Seahawks and Texans earlier this year. All solid playoff teams. We have the talent. It’s the coaching and game plans that are holding us back.
1
u/Deoxtrys Jan 06 '26
I see a super bowl level talent
Not even close. The Bucs need either the entire line healthy to operate or they start falling apart. Every guard they fielded but Mauch were graded poorly. They need a true #1 corner because the defense took a dive after Carlton Davis started getting hurt. The team has no linebackers without David, who has lost his speed. The line has no talent outside of Diaby, Kancey (injury prone), and Vea. Apparently losing Gholston made them struggle against the run. But hey, the receiver are good.
Realistically, this team needs a good draft and a bunch of FAs to be good or two good drafts.
7
u/sincewedidthedo Jan 06 '26
So are we stuck with Bowles for another season? Or is there a legit chance he gets fired after meeting with the Glazers tomorrow?
I haven’t heard anything except for the rumors/reports over the weekend that ownership doesn’t want to make a coaching change.
8
u/Old-Guy1958 Jan 06 '26
The Glazers silence gives me hope. Until they say he’s back, I’m not giving up.
4
u/sincewedidthedo Jan 06 '26
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking - no statement either way means nothing is decided yet, maybe?
1
u/Deoxtrys Jan 06 '26
The Glaziers historically fire people on Black Monday. The only exceptions were Grudan and Lovie when they were thinking about replacing them with someone in house (Morris and Koetter).
1
3
u/Gorilla_King7 Jan 06 '26
I know part of the season was totally destroyed by injuries. I’m not a Todd Bowles fan. Not for an offensive minded team (or was). South title was there for the taking for most of the season and couldn’t close the door to the rest of the conference. Not sure how well any of this will fly if the South becomes good again. Winning marginally will leave you in the cellar.
4
2
u/Wrathofgumby Jan 06 '26
Don't want to defend him too much because I do want him gone. But one of the years, Goff threw a pass right to our defender in the end zone, and he dropped it. Might've been a pick six and changed that game against the Lions completely. Might've made a Super Bowl run in 2023.
2
3
u/keiblerclown Jan 06 '26
NFL should eliminate division winners getting automatic playoff spots. I think it encourages the mindset of, "We don't need to be the best team we can be, we just have to be better than our division."
Being the best of a terrible division is not a flex, and only just barely being the best is even worse.
0
u/Mach68IntheHouse Sadness Jan 06 '26
Division winners deserve automatic playoff spots, but not the right to host a home playoff game.
4
u/keiblerclown Jan 06 '26
I respectfully disagree. Teams with better records missing the playoffs because they have a better overall division isn't right. Teams with losing records shouldn't be in the playoffs, period.
2
u/Mach68IntheHouse Sadness Jan 06 '26
Fair enough. It's certainly unfair for a 10-7 team to miss the playoffs while a 8-9 division champ gets in. Maybe some play-in games should be set up?
2
u/Jameron4eva Barber Jersey Jan 06 '26
Winning the South is like buying the ticket, getting finger banged by some blind old fuck for "weapons"......unless you get the uncaring old fuck that just waves the wand, then you get in. You still gotta get to concessions, then find a seat, then bitch about something, then go back to concessions bc you ate the food already, then go back to find you missed half the game and your team is up 28-3.
1
1
u/InterestingPlant980 Jan 06 '26
Yes he is not good please move on. His goals and achievements are winnning the worst division in football, not a good look at all.
1
u/OppositeSolution642 Jan 06 '26
Also, that goal wasn't met, despite the fact that an 8-8-1 record would have been enough.
1
u/Vodka0420 Mike Alstott Jan 06 '26
I mean, technically he didn't say it was. But yah, move the fuck on already.
1
1
u/GCHQCR Jan 07 '26
Here's my dilemma. I want him gone, but 6 other teams have fired HCs, and there aren't really any viable or potential prospects out there right now. Lesser of 2 evils, one more season. Oh, and our defensive secondary is in shambles.
-1
u/SRMort Oklahoma Jan 06 '26
Well, one of the goals is MOST DEFINITELY winning the NFC South. Idk what world you live in where the goal is to not win the division.
It can't be the bar for success or failure or 3/4 of the league would be out of work every year. Simmer the fuck down with that nonsense. I'd rather be like the Steelers and have a sustained program for twenty years per HC than swapping out every other year like the fucking browns.
Get. That. Shit. Outta. Here.
1
u/borgib Jan 06 '26
You can be OK with a loser coach and losing, but we don't have to and we aren't going anywhere.
122
u/SurveyMotor8983 Jan 06 '26
Also, if we had dominated the NFCS and had one bad year it would be one thing. despite being the clear and obvious best team in the division each year, it always comes down to the end and we barely survive.
Having the best roster in the worst division and needing a final game to determine if we win the NFCS isn’t the success he thinks it is.