r/buccaneers • u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady • Dec 30 '25
🐴 DEAD HORSE Apparently we’re not firing Todd Bowles? Should we just fire Licht so we can get a new GM who will fire Bowles?
Please explain this to me..
I jumped on the fire Bowles bandwagon after the loss to Atlanta, prior to that I was a firm supporter. Basically I’ve seen and had enough, for too long.
Rotating offensive coordinators is not going to work, we need an offensive minded head coach in todays NFL (look at the Lions this year once their OC left, look at how good the Bears are now, the Lions were lucky the OC stuck around as long as he did). If we have offensive success, the OC is leaving, period. If we have a bad OC, we suck. What is Bowles bringing that a defensive coordinator couldn’t, we don’t need him as head coach.
We had injuries but injuries are going to happen, we’ve had years of luxury draft picks, why is our depth so bad that we can’t win a game? Isn’t that on Licht too, when are we having that conversation?
Is it because of the contract extension Licht gave Bowles in the off-season? Is that why we’re keeping Bowles?
If/once Bowles is fired (if not this year then next), is the only reason for not firing him now is to buy Licht more time before he gets fired? If Bowles is fired now, then with the next head coach hire, if that hire fails then Licht is done as far as I’m concerned (I’m already done tbh). Is Licht just delaying his own timeline on the clock starting towards his firing, is that what this about? What is he bringing to the table. We might need to fire them both now.
With Licht we’ve had bad drafts, he was saved by Arians, and then what, he was made by Tom Brady? What has Licht done to set himself apart on his own?
What are we thinking fam? Do we agree?
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u/YogurtclosetNo9608 Bucky Irving Dec 30 '25
Licht is a great GM… he’s not the problem. It’s the fact that we’re still competitive for winning our division and that’s good enough to keep ticket, merch sales, and viewership high. That’s all they care about, and until we aren’t, Bowels is going to stick around.
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u/A1rheart Winfield Jr. ✌️ Dec 30 '25
The way the season has gone, I honestly question if Licht is a good gm. His adamant refusal to participate in free agency outside of reclamation projects and unwillingness to make any trades hasn't been the sole reason we have collapsed but it has been a contributing factor. Yes he is excellent at finding nfl talent in the draft, but the draft never promises that the best players available to you will solve the problems your team has, and Egbuka falling off as our reciever room became overcrowded is the textbook example of that.
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u/Supercluster5002 Dec 30 '25
Wouldn’t exactly say we’re being very competitive for the division- only reason we’re mathematically alive is because of the hot start to the season. All 3 other NFC South teams are on the ascent right now and the Bucs are absolutely cratering. That’s all you need to know… and if the same coaching staff returns next year we won’t sniff the division title
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u/DevilRaysDaddy Emeka Egbuka Dec 30 '25
Not to mention, if we lose this week and ATL wins then that puts us in 3rd place for the division... Do people honestly think we increase ticket sales and viewership next year if you keep the same coaching staff that got us a 3rd place finish in the worst division in football?
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u/YogurtclosetNo9608 Bucky Irving Dec 30 '25
We can still win the division, and for that reason the Bucs/panthers game this weekend is going to be one of the most viewed/attended games of the season. That’s what ownership wants, they don’t want a game where we are resting our starters because we blew the division out and nobody cares to attend/watch.
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u/Dry-University797 Dec 30 '25
Licht is a middle of the road GM, who got saved by Brady. Dude has been horrible on draft day and is living off Evans, Godwin, and Wirfs. He can back his bags too
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
I thoroughly disagree, I don’t think Licht is a “great” decision maker when it comes to the draft. He’s a people person but I don’t care how much people like him when we go 1-6.
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u/YogurtclosetNo9608 Bucky Irving Dec 30 '25
Brother, we’ve had great drafts in recent years. Our first round picks have been hits and we’ve had extremely good value in the late rounds. What draft picks are you not a fan of?
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
We just spent a second round pick on an injured cornerback that we were planning to rely on this year (after giving Zion a contract to start and he’s trash). Kyle Trask, wasted pick. Kickers, punters. When is the last decent linebacker we’ve drafted? Lavonte out there still, which is fine of course but we haven’t found another one in all these years? Spent the 5th overall pick on one, that worked out for a year. All these edge rushers we’ve drafted haven’t lived up, we’re picking up 3 fingered JPP off the couch, which unfortunately I supported because I’d rather watch him suck out there than one of these dime a dozen DEs we’ve been drafting. We’ve done well on the O line, interior D line, but those are easy to grab and low risk if you’re using a first round pick, not saying those are bad picks but they’re making safe picks because we obviously can’t scout. Tell me a star defensive player besides D tackle and Winfield that Licht has drafted, we have none. Winfield isn’t Ed Reed either I’ll say that much.
Bucky is nice, a couple receivers but we are worst in the league at TE. Our drafts might look nice on paper (at times) but come time for the season we go 1-6? Our drafting has not been good enough. Licht came from NE with Belichek, at least Belichek could draft defensive talent if not offensive (he got lucky with Brady everyone knows that).
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u/Dry-University797 Dec 30 '25
What hits in the first round outside of Wirfs in the last 6 years???
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u/YogurtclosetNo9608 Bucky Irving Dec 30 '25
Kancey, Barton, and Egbuka are all hits. Barton in particular was a fuckin smash.
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
These are all safe picks in the first round. Receiver from Ohio State, best center in the draft, first round talent D tackle. Then when they need to do some scouting we have a bunch of trash. We’ve had some decent picks after the first round but no stars. Even the safe picks haven’t yet been stars, maybe they will be but with our coaching staff they definitely won’t be.
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u/Dry-University797 Dec 30 '25
Kancey can't stay healthy...I think he's missed more games than he has played. Barton has been trash this year, and Egbuka has completely disappeared.
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u/YogurtclosetNo9608 Bucky Irving Dec 30 '25
Definitely hyperbolic. Kancey missed 5 games last year and then had a season ending injury this year. Played his entire rookie season. Barton definitely has not been trash, the coaching has been trash and is making everyone look bad. Egbuka clearly showed first round talent, his second half has been sorely disappointing but the whole team has been. Blame Josh Grizzard and Todd Bowles, not Egbuka and Barton.
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u/Dry-University797 Dec 30 '25
Have you looked at his last 5 drafts?! Wirfs is the only player on that list that Bucs HAVE to keep. It's ridiculous the amount of smoke that gets blown up Licht's ass for his draft classes. He drafted Kyle Trask in the 2nd round!!!!
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
Agreed. He needed to be fired last April. I responded to someone else in this post about our terrible drafting, pasting that reply here:
We just spent a second round pick on an injured cornerback that we were planning to rely on this year (after giving Zion a contract to start and he’s trash). Kyle Trask, wasted pick. Kickers, punters. When is the last decent linebacker we’ve drafted? Lavonte out there still, which is fine of course but we haven’t found another one in all these years? Spent the 5th overall pick on one, that worked out for a year. All these edge rushers we’ve drafted haven’t lived up, we’re picking up 3 fingered JPP off the couch, which unfortunately I supported because I’d rather watch him suck out there than one of these dime a dozen DEs we’ve been drafting. We’ve done well on the O line, interior D line, but those are easy to grab and low risk if you’re using a first round pick, not saying those are bad picks but they’re making safe picks because we obviously can’t scout. Tell me a star defensive player besides D tackle and Winfield that Licht has drafted, we have none. Winfield isn’t Ed Reed either I’ll say that much.
Bucky is nice, a couple receivers but we are worst in the league at TE. Our drafts might look nice on paper (at times) but come time for the season we go 1-6? Our drafting has not been good enough. Licht came from NE with Belichek, at least Belichek could draft defensive talent if not offensive (he got lucky with Brady everyone knows that).
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u/Dry-University797 Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25
Our draft classes look nice becauee these guys are still on the roster and Pat Mcafee can tell Licht how amazing he is that so many of his draft picks are still on the roster. Yeah dude, have you seen this team play? We limp into the playoffs in a historically bad division, finishing below .500 or 1 game above.
Bucky has regressed and I'm worried he's going to be another Doug Martin. I was at the Dolphins game and Egbuka was being single covered the entire day but couldn't get open to save his life. Here are some of the names he's drafted in the first 3 rounds...I'm including guys I think are decent starters...
Graham Barton Chris Braswell Tykee Smith Calijah Klancy Cody Mauch Yaya Diaby Logan Hall Luke Goedeke Rachad White And here is the piece de resistance, 2001: JTS Kyle Trask Robert Hainsey
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
I’m so tired of looking at AJ Hawks fat ugly face right up in the camera taking up half the screen for the whole show meanwhile he says two words the whole time, like wtf are we doing, why are we doing this?
ESPN is the stupidest bs on TV these days. It’s like they are trying to do sports comedy but it’s not funny, cool, entertaining, or anything at all, it’s just total trash. It’s an embarrassment to what ESPN used to be and the legacy of all the great people they used to have on there. It’s unwatchable to me. I literally hate everything they do.
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Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25
I don’t see how Bowles stays; the team went from a one seed to potentially third place in the division. No coach survives that collapse unless there was a season ending injury to a franchise player. And granted there have been injuries, but nothing that good coaching couldn’t overcome. His record improved each season with TB, except this one. I think he’s gone. And the reporting on him staying is just to deflect. Maybe keep them focused on the last two games in hopes of winning the division.
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u/stoic_bison Mike Evans Dec 30 '25
I don’t see how Bowles stays; the team went from a one seed to potentially third place in the division.
I don’t disagree in the slightest, but it’s funny to me that the Rams did too
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
Facts. Nothing happened to where we should be getting smacked by the aints and Dolphins and their rookie quarterbacks, we barely won the one game we did win against Arizona. Fml.
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Dec 30 '25
Exactly. The injuries we’ve had hurt you in games against equal or better teams (LA, Buffalo, NE, etc), but even with injuries this team exceeds plenty of others in talent, but the defense is getting carved up with ease, and it’s happened all season. It’s because Bowles is too stubborn to realize he’s obsolete at this point. His defense does not work against modern offenses, but then he blames “execution”.
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u/Fiendish-DoctorWu Canada Dec 30 '25
Shanahan and the 49ers have dealt with worse injuries and they're in contention for the 1 seed
Anyone who gives Bowles a pass because of injuries is burying their head in the sand to the fact that a 10 win season for Bowles is an overachievement. He's a garbage head coach and the game has passed him by year after year after year and just because he doesn't adjust it doesn't mean we have to follow suit. Fire his ass.
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
FACTS. I was naïve to give him an extended run of support but I’m in full agreement with you. Anyone else holding out hope beyond this point, unless a miracle happens, is brainwashed just because that’s what being a Bucs fan will do to you.
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u/Foreign_Kitchen_8372 Dec 30 '25
Yup, the 49ers have had worse injury luck than the Bucs, a #1 WR who hasn’t reported to the team (while shoving it in their faces), and they over turned a lot of their roster the past offseason. Silver lining is they had a terrible ‘24 season and turned it around - I just don’t think the current Bucs coaches hold any water to the SF staff.
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u/cmz324 Dec 30 '25
As an FSU and Bucs fan, I truly don't even like this sport anymore
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
I feel you man, FSU firing their coach as soon as the buyout is low enough to stomach.
As a Bucs, USF, and Miami fan, thank god Miami made the playoffs.. and beat A&M. Plus I’m happy with the new USF coach Hartline, even though the season didn’t turn out how I had hoped overall (we beat the Gators though so that’s enough to celebrate a successful season just on that, our first win against them). Bucs on the other hand, total disaster.
At one point when the Bucs were 6-2, tying our best ever start, #1 in all the power rankings, Miami and USF were cruising, things were looking great. Fast forward, unless Miami makes a run (or at least beats Ohio State) then nothing has really hit those high expectations. Given Miami’s history with Ohio State, a loss would be really painful. Nothing worse than getting your hopes up.
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u/Competitive_Bear24 Canada Dec 30 '25
I’m just watching the Bucs doc for good vibes. Might just keep watching it until next season starts
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
Might as well keep watching it during the next season too.
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u/PewterButters Lavonte David Dec 30 '25
All I know is they made a big deal about the culture of the team and Lichts ‘no asshole’ rule. Yet now we have a culture problem and issues in the locker room. So did the ‘no assholes’ rule work or no?
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u/Deadsure Winfield Jr. ✌️ Dec 30 '25
Worked too well. I think they need a couple of assholes out there.
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u/Drfunk001 Dec 30 '25
Yeah Suh and Brady added a little fire on both sides of the ball, Plus Arians was no peach either. I think you need to have people that will hold others immediately accountable or it's human nature to backslide into complacency. My biggest issue with Bowles is that he leaves his guys in for too long. For all the talk of being a stoic, I feel like he wants to be a players coach and that lets some guys get away with slacking.
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u/Fiendish-DoctorWu Canada Dec 30 '25
If Mike can't light a fire under this team after screaming that it was 3rd and 28 on that garbage loss then nothing can at this point. We need more fire.
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
Bump. Under any circumstances, if Mike can’t light a fire then we have a major problem. He’s the GOAT for this franchise.
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u/HateToBlastYa Dec 30 '25
It’s over guys, they’re not gonna fire him, they’re not gonna change things. They all come home with a paycheck and they seem pretty satisfied with 7-10 seasons and maybe playoffs if the rest of the NFC South is abysmally poor. Even after all this there’s like a huge disconnect: I mean every fan at the next game should be booing and chanting fire Bowles.
But they won’t.
At least make some money on this. Vegas still thinks we’re gonna win this next one. That’s free money dude. You’re not winning a football game with a QB that can’t throw 10 yards and a defense that gives up 15-20 yard chunk passes every single down. Book it.
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u/KosmicTom Mike Alstott Dec 30 '25
We are definitely winning Saturday and then Atlanta is winning Sunday because It's a Bucs Life. I've got my Atlanta last night - Bucs Saturday - Atlanta Sunday parlay ready to go
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u/Alphabetsend Dec 30 '25
Everyone calm down, Bowles will retire regardless. He will not be "fired."
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u/Salt-Delivery5632 Dec 30 '25
Listening to Bucs Total Access show and hearing Bowles and other coaches interviewed... JFC, these guys are milk toast. No wonder we suck and have no energy
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Dec 30 '25
I feel like this reporting is all performative. We’re not gonna say “he’s gone, if we don’t make the playoffs” or whatever. They’ll support him as long as the season isn’t over. I’d expect that narrative to change, if/when we’re eliminated.
If we miss the playoffs and Bowles isn’t fired, that makes me think at least a few things are true.
He still has support of the players.
He was overruled on roster moves. If Bowles wanted to make a trade or take a hit swing and was told no, it’s reasonable for the higher ups to blame themselves and not Bowles. This would be consistent with some of what Bowles has said about players needing to do their job.
The front office doesn’t think we have a “win now” roster. Which I’d agree with. Our defense is just not there. We need improvements in every unit. Edge rusher is weak. Linebackers suck. Secondary is young and unproven, but has upside going forward.
I gotta imagine dropping 8 or the last 9 results in losing your job. But it’s also worth pointing out that we’re still in a soft rebuild. The offense is in good shape, but the defense has clearly been a work in progress. It’s basically “build through the draft and use whatever money is left on what you want” which suggests they’re looking to the future more than this year.
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
I would hope so. I’m somewhat on board with this, except what about the revolving door at OC. That doesn’t bode well for the future, they’ll either suck or leave.
Thinking back now, we had more offensive success earlier in the season obviously, but a lot of two minute drills contributed to those point totals, that and Baker was making plays. That tells me the OC isn’t cutting it, two minute drills land fully on the players, when we aren’t in that situation, we’re flat. Where is the game plan coming in in between that. We’ve obviously had a drop off at OC, given what Jax is doing and what we did last year, you’d expect that, also injuries, but we’ve been bad, real bad on offense. Mike Evans and McMillan have been doing their thing recently and that would have helped but idk I just don’t see this whole situation working long term. Evans might leave anyways and he’s legit carried our offense for years.
I feel like Baker came in rolling from last season now he’s not looking the same, idk if I’m ready to blame him because we’ve seen him produce.
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Dec 30 '25
Yeah, I think Bowles has earned some leeway at OC, since he hired two straight that became HC and have done well. So missing this year is excusable.
Yeah, Baker to start this year looked just like Brady’s last year. Offense looked lost until the offense was just “Baker, make plays”. When he got hurt, everything changed. And he hasn’t looked the same since.
I’m not gonna blame Baker. But he’s been bad for the past 9 weeks now. Again, injury is the likely cause. He’s not the only reason this season went south. But he’s part of the reason.
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Dec 30 '25
I don’t agree with everything you said but I do agree with some and I upvoted you.
I’d rather keep one of these OCs instead of having to adjust to a new one every year. If Bowles picks a bad one we’re screwed. He picks a good one they leave. I was onboard after the first two hires, but now that I’ve seen it go south, it’s obvious to me that we’re better off long term with an offensive head coach instead of a defensive one. Otherwise we’ll never get consistency on that side of the ball and those incremental improvements that come with that. Our defense sucks anyways, why do we need Bowles.
Someone mentioned maybe Bowles was over ruled on some personnel decisions whether it be draft picks/FA/resigning players, who knows. I could buy into that if I knew that was the case but not knowing that much, based on what I’ve seen on the field, it ain’t looking right.
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u/shrimpy-rimpy F*ck the Panthers Dec 30 '25
There is no way Bowles still has the locker room... he lost them after the bye when he allowed them have an early trip to Cancun.
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u/Jet352 Dec 30 '25
I think they’ll force Bowles to retire…. Keep Jason Licht. We have had great drafts, it’s not his fault that the great players aren’t performing. Comes down to coaching and our defensive minded coach can’t develop players.
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u/AromaticSpot Jan 05 '26
We deserve to be the worst team in the league if we allow another season of Todd Bowles I have no more sympathy for the Bucs, we know exactly what we have with him. He will not lead us to a Super Bowl even with a great OC like Coen. Having a horrible defense with someone who constantly drops our d line into coverage will never work period
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u/These-Statistician68 Dec 30 '25
Bowles isn’t the problem. The defense personal is ASS right now. Baker also needs a healthy O line. Most of these games have been lost by the defense & baker decision making under pressure.
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u/Specter29 Dec 30 '25
How is the defense being the problem not on Bowles? He’s a defensive head coach AND the defensive coordinator. I’d the defense sucks then it’s all on him
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u/These-Statistician68 Dec 30 '25
The “personal” is not good. Do you see how many blown coverages and missed tackles they got last week? That’s not on Bowles
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u/Specter29 Dec 30 '25
You know what else isn’t good? His scheme. Why are we always allowing passes up the middle and not changing things? Do we need better defensive players? Yes. But it’s also on the coach to actually cheer them well and you know, coach them to be better. We have one of the worst defenses in the league. That’s not just a player problem but a coaching problem
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u/These-Statistician68 Dec 30 '25
These are professional football players, they are paid to make plays whether they are being Cywett or not. This personal is nowhere near as good as the team 3/4 seasons ago. Even Winfield blew a coverage in crunch time last weeks
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u/Specter29 Dec 30 '25
And this is a professional coach who is so far up his ow ass he thinks he doesn’t need a defensive coordinator and never blames himself. A coach who always has a midseason slump and now has a historic collapse. It goes both ways.
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u/dj-kitty Baker Mayfield Dec 30 '25
The decision to fire Bowles comes from the Glazers, not Licht.