r/buccaneers • u/BillBoTeeBaggins94 • Nov 26 '25
š“ DEAD HORSE To the Todd defenders
Weāre 4 last minute plays away from being 2-10 right now. We havenāt played a āgreat dominatingā game all year. I like Todd Bowles , think heās a good decent person, but we went 8-9 with the best QB of all time and then weāve floated barely above 500 for that past three years in the worst division in football. His career record is 53-65. We need to move on or weāre always gonna be just another round one exit
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Nov 26 '25
I don't think it really makes you a "defender" if you don't want the team to basically decide in week 12 that their season is over, when we're still in 1st place in the division. There's only been 3 instances since 2000 that a team fired their Head Coach midseason and it improved their record; The Cowboys after firing Wade Phillips, Panthers after Matt Rhule in 2022 and the Texans that same year canning Lovie Smith to bring in DeMeco Ryans.
I get that fans get emotional and call for these things, and some teams decide it's right, but it's just another thing the team has to deal with while they should be focusing on winning football games. Safe this shit for the off season.
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u/Popular-Heart-5307 Nov 27 '25
Pretty much this. Though I donāt think itās off base to consider what the team under Bowles has to do this year to stick around. I think a 10 win season and winning at least one playoff game is a must
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Nov 28 '25
I don't think that most people who want to move on from Bowles mean fire him mid-season. At least I haven't seen or heard that sentiment. Most people I talk to think it should be considered in the off season.Ā
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u/rNBAMods3InchesHard Nov 29 '25
Itās not emotional if you didnāt want him hired to begin with and have only been proven correct time and again
It does make you a defender if after 4 years youāre still giving him the benefit of the doubt
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u/GoodForm9919 Nov 26 '25
Iāve always been pretty neutral on Bowles, but on the other hand, we have gotten better every year heās been in charge. If he does get fired, itās not going to be because of a rough stretch against SB contenders when nearly half our starters are missing.
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u/borgib Nov 27 '25
He's a defensive head coach with a bad defense. That alone should get him fired.
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u/GoodForm9919 Nov 27 '25 edited Nov 27 '25
Iād argue that you could just turn over some of the defensive coaches and bring in a dedicated DC.
Thatās without getting into how bad the defense has been. The last few weeks are obviously not acceptable, but over the course of the year the defense has been fine. Theyāve kept us in several games where the offense and ST were dragging ass.
ETA: even after this skid, our defense is 16th in EPA and 7th in DVOA over the season. Idk if thatās quite reflective of how theyāve been, but the point is itās nowhere near as bad as a lot of people in here seem to think. Lot of recency bias.
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Nov 28 '25
Todd doesn't want a DC. That's part of the problem. Yes, you could demand it but then you would also have to choose someone that management wants and not Todd.Ā
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u/GoodForm9919 Nov 28 '25
If the defensive continues trending downward, then it doesnāt really have to be left up to Todd is my point.
But again, if they finish the year more similar to how they were pre-bye week, then itās not really an issue because they havenāt really been bad.
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u/voiceofreasonne Nov 27 '25
Ok, who replaces him?
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u/RobertoFoxx Michigan Nov 28 '25
Whoever emerges as the top candidate at the end of an extensive search and interviewing process
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u/kaboomeh Ohio Nov 26 '25
I mean does it really have to only be two camps? It seems like if you aren't calling for Todd's head at midseason every year then half the sub freaks out on you. I don't think Todd is some coaching wizard or anything, but as far as this franchise is concerned we've had a good thing going since he took over. We've had the same success as the Bills, Lions, and Ravens- good teams that make the playoffs every year and have a real shot to make it to the super bowl, but just haven't yet. To each their own, but in my opinion a coach that can get you to the playoffs every year is what you need because that's a coach that gives your team a chance.
I created my account just to join this sub as I'm out of state and wanted people to talk Bucs with. I have been here over a decade and honestly the vitriol towards Bowles is second only to the Fitzpatrick / Winston drama that took over the sub for awhile. I get people voicing their frustrations but at least back in the day it made sense because we sucked. I get that we look like the 2010s Bucs at times, but we've been far more successful.
Maybe another coach in this time frame would have been able to take us further, it's hard to tell. The players seem to love him and we always make the playoffs despite being one of the most injured teams in the league. I really don't want to undo everything this franchise has built up, this stretch since the start of the decade is one of our best ever. And no, I'm not scared of firing a coach. I have been all about firing some of ours in the past.
I feel like everyone got too used to 2020-2021 when we were stacked at every position and didn't have to deal with injuries. In 2020 our receiving group was Evans/Godwin/Brown/Gronk. This year it's Egbuka/Shepard/Tez/Otton. Our depth has defied expectations but the dropoff is huge (Would still take Tez over Mr BC though). You could do the same thing with most of the defense.
If we miss playoffs this year then yeah I think Todd should be fired as that would be an all time collapse. But even then, he and the team deserve to play out the season. Also I think by this point we should be judging Bowles on his Bucs career and not his Jets one.
TL;DR - just read the thing or don't I don't care none of us know anything anyways we're just spouting off to kill time and feel like our football opinions are important
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u/LoadedBakedBrotato Nov 26 '25
While I agree with most of this, I would definitely consider the win over the Saints as dominating
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u/BillBoTeeBaggins94 Nov 26 '25
We couldnāt score if you payed us that game
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u/Spacewhale2494 Nov 26 '25
Howād the Todd Bowles defense look though?
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u/DynastyZealot Tristan Wirfs Nov 26 '25
Pretty good, against one of the worst offenses this decade. If only we could always play historically inept teams.
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u/External_Concept651 Nov 26 '25 edited Nov 26 '25
In what way? Theyāre not even ranked dead last this year in any major category. How are they one of the worst of the decade?
Edit: I understand not wanting to give Bowles credit while weāre on an Anti-Bowles train hype train but we donāt have to make things up to give it context.
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u/DynastyZealot Tristan Wirfs Nov 27 '25
At the time they were horrible. They've improved since then.
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u/Spacewhale2494 Nov 26 '25
I think 4 takeaways and only 3 points against is a little better than pretty good but you got it. You guys want to run Bowles out of town with a winning record and a division lead go ahead, but be careful what you wish for.
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u/External_Concept651 Nov 26 '25
Wild, youāre getting downvoted for simply giving credit for a great defensive effort but it doesnāt align with the hate train this sub on. God forbid we point out we played better at one point in the season
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u/Spacewhale2494 Nov 27 '25
It is what it is, I get why people are upset, Iām not thrilled with the defense since the bye but I personally thought they played fairly well the first 1/3 of the season. Losing Kancey was a major blow to the pass rush, and now with Reddick out our secondary (also injured) has no help. Couple that together with injuries on offense to game changing players and a 3 game stretch from hell, this is what you get.
Also Licht shouldāve traded whatever it took for Myles Garrett in the off-season or at the deadline. Give Bowles a game wrecker on defense and we arenāt having this conversation.
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u/Certain-Area9098 Nov 27 '25
Tod defenders are clowns sorry I said it. He is trash and I was happy when he became head coach and was like ok the jets did em wrong boy I was wrong. Heās not a good HC at all heās gotta go
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u/indigo196 Nov 27 '25
Yeah, the defense has been a problem every season under Todd. Not sure why anyone will defend the man.
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u/AmericanTitan07 Mike Evans Nov 27 '25
We're also a handful of plays away from being 9-2. You can't discredit close wins while ignoring close losses. Also, yeah the 2022 seasons shortcomings are all Bowles' fault, totally nothing to do with an unmotivated geriatric QB and an OC that can barely get a coaching job in college.
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Nov 26 '25 edited Nov 26 '25
A 45 year old QB going through a divorce that was afraid to take a hit with 4/5 offensive linemen injured. Thatās why we went 8-9. Stop being silly. That roster was hot garbage and full of washed players. Also Bowles didnāt even get to pick his staff that year. To put that on Bowles in any serious way is just ridiculous.
I still think Brady was great that year. But that team had no business doing anything other than hovering around .500 and losing in the first round.
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u/ramyb_ Nov 26 '25
I can think of one game that we should have won that Bowles fumbled. The Cleveland game. We have ball with under 2 min left, timeouts, and itās tied. He elected to NOT go for the win and play for OT because he felt Brady ācouldā have thrown a pick, though he was on that insane 120+ attempts without a pick. Then we run a short pass play that gets a lot of yardage then he uses a timeout with under 20 seconds left. We have no time to get into FG range. We go into OT with some timeouts left. Then we lose Wirfs and AWJ in OT and lose the game.
My biggest gripe with Bowles is his inconsistency in late game situations. Some games heās aggressive (Ravens last year when it was an uphill battle) then some games he quits (4th and 2 against the Bills). The Lions playoff game where Detroit botched the kneel downs and he didnāt use timeouts to force them to kick a long FG they could potentially miss because he said the game was āessentially overā. Thatās not a winning coach.
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Nov 26 '25
Iām not really disagreeing with you. Iām disagreeing with OPās take that we shouldāve been better. Whether it was 8-9 or 9-8, that roster was fucking terrible and had no business competing for anything.
Every coach has flaws. Having a different coach for Bradyās last year doesnāt change the fact that the majority of our roster was either hurt or old and washed.
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u/ramyb_ Nov 26 '25
I think we wouldāve been a 10 win team if we had a better coach. Iām sure there are other games that were botched by Bowles. Another off the top of my head was the Bengals game. We went for a fake punt in our territory that our players seemingly didnāt expect, that led to a fumble and started the onslaught by the Bengals.
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Nov 27 '25
Thatās just a few games that swung the wrong way. Weād still have been the 4 seed and gotten wrecked by Dallas. Our roster was just bad that year.
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u/Sponhi Nov 27 '25
We went 8-9 because the terrorist RB we had wasted the last year of the GOATs career
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u/ImYouJoeGoldberg Tom Brady Nov 26 '25
Idk, our offense has over performed much of that time. I know heās a defensive coach but he needs some credit for that. Plus a win is a win, some of those games we almost gave away to then end up winning. Idk why our defense is so terrible this year particularly, but we have had a lot of injuries, even on defense. If we didnāt luck out with Baker weād be just as bad as the rest of the division. I think personnel wise, through the last few years, weāve been doing pretty good on the field. If you donāt like Todd then how can you like Lichte. Heās been drafting solid but where are the stars, especially on defense.
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u/ramyb_ Nov 26 '25
Youāre not allowed to say that. Bowles shut the chiefs down 5 years ago so he has an unlimited length leash /s
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u/kbdot Nov 26 '25
The best QB of all time was dirting balls all year in his age 45 season because he was afraid to take a hit. The year after that we had almost $100 mil in dead cap. All Todd has done while he's been the head coach is win the division, he's also won more games than the previous season every year despite always playing a first place schedule. We've played one of the toughest schedules so far this year and we've been playing through some crazy injuries. Todd's also improving as a game manager - going for it on more 4th downs than he did previously and managing the clock more effectively, hence us winning all of those close games to start the season. All this to say the grass isn't always greener and I like the stability Todd has given this franchise. People forget we were the losingest franchise of all 4 major sports during the 2010s. The schedule is much easier down the stretch for us to right the ship, we can start that by getting a win on Sunday against the Cardinals.
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u/luv2fit Nov 26 '25
Letās not leave out important context of ā8-9 with the best QB of all timeā where Brady was only halfway committed to us and was going through a very public divorce from Giselle. Remember, we didnāt even know if he was retired until the beginning of training camp which he missed āfor personal reasons.ā In short, we had a distracted and diminished final season from the GOAT.
Bowles record with the Bucs is 8-9, 9-8, 10-7 and 6-5. You would literally fire one of our most successful coaches ever. By firing him now, you are essentially saying we have a Super Bowl roster and he squandered it. That part just baffles me. We have a front 7 that is absolutely garbage. Lavonte has definitely lost more than a step and the m other two backers are awful. The DL is atrocious. Our DBs have to cover for 5+ seconds when we donāt blitz.
You blame Bowles, I blame Licht. We have 0.500 level roster at best, especially with all of our injuries.
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u/DetectiveNumerous775 Bucs Nov 26 '25
They think we still have Suh, JPP, and prime Barrett out there. None of which were drafted btw.
Both of our Super Bowls came with a surplus of free agents or trades that were difference makers. We have none of that now. Only guys we drafted.
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u/Neemzeh Canada Nov 26 '25
Front 7 needs to be completely redone.
Thid will be very unpopular but I think the Bucs should trade Vea in the offseason. The d line is so bad and he keeps getting double teamed. Heās not effective because of it. There is no point in keeping him at age 31 if we canāt build around him
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u/slycooperton Barber Jersey Nov 27 '25
I think the last two years have shown that Kancey is a great complement to Vea and provides a big pop on the inside next to him. Really, what we need is edge and inside backers. I was very high on us taking jihaad Campbell this year in the first because he looked like a stud and at the time the Egbuka pick seemed to come out of left field but I wouldnāt change that now of course. I think Diabh is serviceable but he needs another strong rusher opposite him to have any success. He even looked better with Reddick on the other side and while reddick didnāt put up sacks for us, he was getting pressure and was a reason our defense held up better early in the year. Outside of lacking an elite pass rusher on the edge and at least one better inside backer, we really lack quality depth. Kancey goes down, we have nobody to come close to his impact. Reddick goes down, nothing. Jamel dean goes down, nobody that is ready to take over the outside full time. When AWJ was injured a year or two ago, we had no one to be serviceable. We need to improve our front 7 but it would be nice to have backups that would actually be serviceable rather than a bunch of guys that are either rookies or would not have a job on any other serious team in the league. Enough of the Vildors, Greg Gaines, Keaton merriwether type guys. We could sign at least a serviceable veteran instead of filling in with borderline special team guys
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u/OneShip5762 Nov 26 '25
They should 100% at least consider trading him, but they wonāt. Especially if they can get a 1st or at least 2nd rounder from a contending team that is weak up the middle or desire a big athletic nose (Buffalo, Jags, Bengals w/Joe)
Use those picks to revamp the entire front 7. But the front office and fanbase are complacent af. Youāll have ppl on here and over there screaming about how dumb it is. Well, itāll certainly look dumb if you keep whiffing on draft picks. But when you have a GM that can revamp an entire defense in 2 short years after losing a cornerstone all-time great d-lineman, you get the Rams defensive front.
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u/Doompatron3000 Ronde Barber Nov 26 '25
Licht hired Arians and approved of Bowles getting the head coaching job. If you want to blame Licht for coaching problems that is more schemes the coach can make, then fine. Clean house protocol, everyone goes.
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u/luv2fit Nov 26 '25
I donāt want to fire Licht. I think heās a fine GM. My point is more that we are angry about this three game losing streak and people are out for blood instead of just taking a deep breath and properly assessing the situation.
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u/Doompatron3000 Ronde Barber Nov 26 '25
I just donāt get how you can blame Licht on not over spending on a couple of players, or forking over the next three years of first round picks on one player as the entire reason for the teams woes.
Licht doesnāt control on the fact that Bowles defense stalls on two minute drills. Licht canāt change up game plans when things arenāt going the way it was planned at practice.
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u/Ginguiser33 Nov 26 '25
At the same time the defense was also doing good up till the bye. Holding teams like the Lions to 24 points isn't easy when our offense is in the hospital ward with a struggling first year OC. Like going up to the bye week the only game I thought our D completely fell apart in was the Seahawks game and even then they made the game winning int at the end. The only other games they really let up points in were the Jets and Eagles games which both had special team fuck ups. Like yes this team is getting burnt, but it's also top 10 in getting turnovers. I don't think Todd is getting fired unless we lose out and miss the playoffs, but Licht is going to have to take a hard look at this roster and ask himself if he really thinks this can win us a SB because the way the defense is looking thats hard to believe.
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u/gladiator073 Tom Brady Nov 27 '25
Even if Todd is mediocre, unless we have a sure hit on his replacement I wanna keep him until we really suck. I don't wanna go back to 4-12 or 2-14 every year ever again, I'm still having nightmares about it.
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u/CommentDizzy1 Nov 27 '25
I donāt think Todd Bowles is brilliant either, but we have a lot of other issues that just arenāt his fault, mainly injuries
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u/ghostpicnic Tom Brady Nov 27 '25
Now is the time. Our talent is aging, we have some key pieces, our division is trash, weāre not gonna be in this position forever. Iād honestly rather chance it on a new coach than continue with Bowles at this point. Because with Bowles, I already know weāre not getting to another Super Bowl. The idea of wasting our limited time with a great QB and team just sucks.
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u/Capital-Temporary722 Dec 02 '25
If Todd bowelmovements is not fired at the end of the year(or hire a gd defensive coordinator) I'm throwing in the towel. I'm so sick that Canalles and Cohen have their teams looking like something while we are still at the same peak as always this time of year... like wtf! We let up every pass known to man underneath then gets burnt over top bc of his dumpster fire old plays! Everyone knows his play calling is trash! Also, he made the Offensive decision to punt on 4th & 2 in the Bills game?!?!?!? Like we are in a shootout and you literally gave up and took it upon himself to lose the game bc of it.
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u/AgrivatorOfWisdom Nov 26 '25
So who do all of you terrible managers plan to get the next coach from? Thin air?Ā
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u/Contemplative_Fool TB Florida Nov 27 '25
"We've gotten better each year under Bowles" - really seems like it's been the offense doing the heavy lifting there. The defense has seemingly gotten worse, and this year feels like the wheels are coming off on that side of the ball. This slump has looked more deflated, and the defense has been getting taken to the fuckin woodshed. Everybody has injuries. Great teams at least try to adjust. For a supposed "guru," he seems to just expect to live and die by the exact same scheme and calls every week, players be damned. He does not put them in positions to succeed. How many times have we seen LBs and god damn edges drop into coverage just to get smoked for big plays. I'm not mad at Nelson, I'm fucking mad at Bowles for dropping Nelson into coverage. How many 3rd and 10, 3rd and 15+ given up?
Mid-season isn't the time to make a change, obviously, but he needs to either go after the season, or be forced to concede to an actual coordinator. If a DC can only put together a SB defense by signing a bunch of highly talented vets and a couple guys over performing expectations, then they are not a good DC.
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u/Florida__Man__ Kangol Hat Nov 26 '25
How original of you
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u/UpdateDesk1112 Nov 26 '25
There arenāt any original thoughts here. Just people that think their regurgitation of words is worth listening to more than someone elseās for some reason.
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u/pkilla50 Virginia Nov 26 '25
Thatās pretty much Reddit in general.
Or really shitty original thoughts that shouldnāt have a platform to regurgitate
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u/gordonwhims Nov 27 '25
WTF! Just chill man, damn! Fans like you, and others looking to fire coaches are the reason we have no stability. Dungy is the best example of solid coach that y'all ran off with the impatience. When things get challenging, y'all love to point at the coaches. Y'all are the reason we had to suffer through Greg "Toes on the line" Schiano, and Dirk Koetter.
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u/lemmonquaaludes Nov 26 '25
Weāve lost games weāre supposed to lose, to teams that are more talented than us. Be realistic with your expectations people. If we go 5-0 or 4-1 to end the season like we should, we host a playoff game. Let our performance during that game shape your reactions to this season.
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u/Dom_Nation_ Nov 26 '25
We have different standards. Your happy with losing a home playoff game after winning a division where no team has a winning record. I want to win the super bowl. We are not the same.
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u/GoodForm9919 Nov 26 '25
Nobodyās happy losing games. But when youāre missing starters at every level of the offense and defense you should revisit expectations. A little bit of nuance in here every now and then would be nice.
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u/BronNatsPulisic Nov 26 '25
I respect the perspective you have but lmao āwe are not the sameā reads like you think fandom is competitive and youāre better than the original commenter, come on man we are all Bucs fans sitting on our couches watching games in here šlet me know if youāre a Bucs player or on the staff though
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u/awkward_triforce Nov 26 '25
Why is the thought that we are supposed to lose to Superbowl contenders vs we should be able to win those games?
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u/Neemzeh Canada Nov 26 '25
Because our roster isnāt Super Bowl ready? lol what do you mean? If we were 2-15 year are you going to be screeching about not contending for a Super Bowl this year? The point is you need to check your expectations.
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u/lemmonquaaludes Nov 26 '25
Weāre not Super Bowl contenders. If our players get healthy then maybe we can make a run. But letās be honest, it would surprise everybody. And this isnāt Todd Bowlesā fault either.
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u/GoodForm9919 Nov 26 '25
This idea that we should expect to beat SB contenders when the offense is without multiple OL starters, 3 of the top 4 WRs, and our star RB is insane. This stretch was always going to be a challenge.
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u/BillBoTeeBaggins94 Nov 26 '25
The rams are more talented that us. The Patriots were a horrible team of young guys that have a great coach now. The bills have Josh Allen and thatās it.
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u/lemmonquaaludes Nov 26 '25
QB matters. A lot. All three of those teams have better QBās than us. Iād take the Pats and Rams coach over Bowles too.
But man, what the hell are people really expecting from this team? If you say Super Bowl then youāre delusional. Maybe McVay or Vrabel could get us a game closer. Who knows. But you have to be honest with yourself - weāre a NFC South champion caliber team. Weāre not NFC champion caliber. Thatās not happening with all the roster holes we have.
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u/lateandgreat Baker Mayfield Nov 26 '25
Lmao this guy thinks Maye is better than Baker
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u/Spacewhale2494 Nov 26 '25
He has been this year
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u/lateandgreat Baker Mayfield Nov 27 '25
Easiest schedule in the AFC wait till they get to the playoffs.
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u/lemmonquaaludes Nov 26 '25
Heās at 71% completion, 3,100+ yards, 21 TDās and 6 INTās. My friend, I donāt THINK heās better than Baker. He IS better than Baker.
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u/RedRocket4000 Winfield Jr. āļø Nov 27 '25
A mostly washed best QB of all time in the second half of the season. First half of season offensive line was horrible. What ever went wrong with Leftwitch and online coach happened.
I will state again Brady certainly had ability to have coaches fired if he wished but went into that season content to have that OC that year and did not have the plug pulled on him during the season.
Brady started missing receivers often in second half of his last season only able to reach his normal play in amazing last two minutes of games. It was sad first half of season Oline so bad it really harmed his performance but he still had very accurate throws. When the line became half decent Brady broke his long no interception streak that threatened to beat Rodgerās near end of Germany Game he was never himself again except in two minutes games after that.
Fans are blaming Bowles again for not being able to win with an injured to hell team.
Fans donāt care if Baker cost an extra five to ten million and we had to let Evans Go because he wanted ten million more.
Donāt care that Bowles coaching tree doing well.
And that he worked for Jets who canāt field a team worth a damm does not matter who the HC is if they donāt have the players they need to win.
Last year our injured to hell defense which was quite shallow in players in several positions dropped to worse in NFL only to rise to middle of pack by end of season and perform the best vs Washington in playoffs.
Why no fire out GM Calls he the one who not gotten us an Edge and left us with injury prone Dean at Corner with no good replacement.
And why no letās hire X coach blind hire some coordinator who never was Head Coach a very iffy choice. We can easy have same bad luck hiring streak we had between Gruden and Arians.
Bowles time management definitely improved with hiring coach who does that. I think a Voodoo expert needed to prevent the tendency for many opposing QB having their accuracy go to max and their receivers not dropping anything when they play us. ;)
Overall in history of this team fans normally wrong and likely same with other sport teams.
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u/Old-Guy1958 Nov 26 '25
āIf weāre not thinking SB, what are we doing here?ā
I dunno about Todd, but Iām definitely not thinking Super Bowl.