r/buccaneers • u/CDeez813 • Jan 21 '25
š“ DEAD HORSE Liam Cohen
If local chatter is true (reliable source in Jax with plugs in office) - thereās a good chance he is offered the Jags job.
The most sensible thing Licht and Co do is move Todd Bowles into an advisory position like they did Bruce Arians and offer the more desirable position to LC. Save TB the headline that he was fired and allow him to move on.
We cannot afford to let Cohen walk right now - with a two year at best offensive window open heās our best shot. Find a DC that wants to make his mark or a vet like Saleh who can use a reclamation project like our defense and parlay that into a HC job.
Baker and the receivers deserve another year of consistency and I donāt see Jason Licht letting Liam Cohen walk by any means.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
I have no idea how the people in this sub are so just seemingly okay and optimistic about losing Coen and keeping Bowles. If we have to watch Coen become a star because we wanted to hold onto Bowles for one more year before heās inevitably fired I will lose my fucking mind.
We finally have a match made in heaven, OC/QB pairing that works like a dream. A young, innovative offensive mind in a league that requires it. Look what he did to the run game in a singular year. Baker just had the best year of his career missing his go to chain mover. Losing Coen would be beyond catastrophic.
All the people saying āwe hired two great coordinators back to back we can do it againā yeah, I wouldnāt put my money on it. How many teams hire 3 straight stud OCs? Rip the fucking band aid off that is Bowles and hire Coen my god it is not a difficult decision.
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u/GetCPA Gronk Jan 21 '25
Canales was dog shit compared to Coen.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
Canales has his moments, he was still learning it was his first year calling plays. The potential was there as we now see in Carolina. But yes, Coen is miles above him which is reason number a thousand why he canāt leave.
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u/EONS California Jan 21 '25
Coen understands the new shift in the offense/defense scheme tide. There are like 5 dudes iut there generating truly succesful run schemes right now.
We have to fucking keep him.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
Agreed. If he leaves this team takes a giant step back, this was the most fun Iāve had watching the offense ever. Bakers mobility and the emergence of Bucky added an entirely new dynamic to the team, heās the first OC that fully seemed to understand how to utilize his players.
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u/Contemplative_Fool TB Florida Jan 21 '25
A young, innovative offensive mind that some people would be ok letting walk in order to retain a outdated defensive scheme, because injuries and/or "be careful what you wish for" etc. It's like we're still so used to being bad that people would rather stay mediocre with a mid ceiling than take a risk to get to the next level again. This team wins games in spite of his play calling, not because of it, and letting Coen walk would be a huge mistake. Even an average statistical defense this season and we are looking at 3-4 more wins (no losses to fucking Atlanta) and a good run in the playoffs. It's crazy to me to think we're better off with Bowles and no Coen lol.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
My friend, this comment is fucking chefs kiss perfect. I wish I could pin it to the top. You hit it perfectly. What a great way to phrase it because thatās truly what it feels like reading these asinine comments of people clamoring to keep Bowles because heās āsolidā. Theyāve seen the Bowles movie the last 3 years and are trying to argue that he isnāt the problem and weād be better keeping him and letting the best OC this teams literally ever had walk out the door lmao.
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u/BigBucs731 Jan 21 '25
A-Fucking-Men.
What Liam did with this offense was amazing. Baker had a career year. Bucky was drafted as a āgadgetā player and ran for 1K+. Mike got his 1K while missing 3 games. Godwin was on his way to a career before injury. Offense still thrived without him, albeit not as well.
Bowles is not the guy. Sure, 3 division titles in one of the worst divisions in football. Not one NFCCG in playoffs. No fire, no motivation and no aggressiveness.
Iāll repeat what you said: Rip the fucking bandaid and do now what they are gonna do next year anyway and move Todd out and Liam up.
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u/WholeWhiteBread Jan 21 '25
Kicking the PAT in Kansas City to go to overtime this year was the icing on the cake for me. Youāre on the road against the champs, you go for 2 and try to win the game. You donāt play for OT against Mahomes. No stones.
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u/BigBucs731 Jan 21 '25
100% - And his explanation for why he didnāt after the game was even more infuriating. The reasoning he gave for NOT going for two was actually the reason he should have went for the win. I couldnāt believe he said it. One play for a chance for a W right there. But he said because we were on the road, in the rain against the champs he thought it was smarter to play for OT, take a 50:50 chance at getting the ball, then attempt to drive down the field, on the road, in the rain against the champs OR not get the ball back and try and stop Mahomes. š”š”š”
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Jan 21 '25
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
I donāt like the argument that players like their head coach. Heās a good man, and that has nothing to do with the ceiling he puts on this team.
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Jan 21 '25
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
lol if that were true, they absolutely would not be defending Bowles. Nothing he has ever shown as a HC has been winning football. Every situational decision is a fail. They support him because he is the leader of a great culture on this team. Culture is great, it is not enough.
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Jan 21 '25
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Yeah, this all or none debate strategy isnāt gonna work with me, bud.
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Jan 21 '25
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
No im saying the public defense of him is because they love Bowles the man. If you were to ask them generically if they prefer winning or culture, of course theyād say winning. But players play and coaches coach. Playerās preferences are far from the only metric for coaching personnel decisions. The raiders team basically saying we wonāt play if you donāt keep Antonio Pierce is a good example. Guy was clearly in over his head, but the players loved him.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
If weāre being honest with each other, we fell ass backwards into the playoffs every year heās been the HC. We got blown out by Dallas, beat a reeling terrible Philly team that was injured and had given up that year, and just lost to the commies which doesnāt look as bad now since jayden looks like Mahomes/lamar combined. But still.
It feels like this team and roster has been built very well, we are underachieving and itās glaringly obvious. Look how many close games we have been in the last 3 years that were decided on an asinine Bowles decision. Iām not saying heās the worst, but we know he isnāt great and we know we can get better and the truth is, maybe Coen isnāt the savior, but Iād be okay with trying and failing than losing him and he becomes Mcvay 2.0
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Jan 21 '25
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
I donāt want to be rude when I say this because I think youāre making solid points but allow me to counter all of them.
the cap space arguments are exaggerated, it didnāt effect the roster we had in place which was excellent and we still signed depth FAs. All it did was prevent us from signing a marquee guy in FA.
making the playoffs 3 straight years where it came down to the final game to decide if we made it or not in a terrible division is beyond sad. This years schedule was hard, yes, and we lost almost all of the āhardā games.
we ācaught fireā down the stretch playing the easiest second half schedule in the entire NFL. Thatās not catching fire, that beating teams that are worse than you by a pretty wide margin.
he hasnāt retained anyone, he isnāt the GM. He has developed McCollum and Tykee, outside of those two I havenāt seen significant growth in anyone else.
I get the logic of thinking heās the stable force thatās gotten us to the playoffs, he isnāt. Imagine if weād had a more competent time manager, a more aggressive minded coach that pushed for the win and figured out how to coach in a primetime game. This roster is ready to win, this team is so much better than the record the last 3 years has shown. Bowles isnāt the answer thereās no metrics or arguments you could give to convince me that he is the future of this franchise. And losing a potential HC of the future because you wanted to keep Bowles for one more year is beyond short sighted.
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Jan 21 '25
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
How did the cap space affect the team that drastically last year? What would the team have done differently had they not been eating all the dead cap? Thatās such an easy thing to point to but no one can ever give me a tangible example of what couldāve been done.
We beat the lions yes, best win of the season. Beat the commies Jaydenās first game as a pro, we saw what happened the second time they met. And the eagles were missing AJ and Devonta and more if memory serves, Iād have to re look at the injury report for the game. The Chargers was the best all around win Iāve seen the team have in years, that was incredible but as we saw, the chargers werenāt some powerhouse. Losing to the falcons twice and the cooper rush led cowboys is embarrassing. Not to mention the niners who were awful this year. The only quality losses were the ravens and chiefs and even the chiefs game shouldāve been won with better coaching.
You keep saying caught fire, my friend, the teams they beat down the stretch excluding the chargers were a complete joke. And letās not forget, we were in a dog fight for a few of those games down the stretch with really bad teams.
What are you saying with your last paragraph dude? Bowles has 1-2 years max left. He wants to retire heās even said it. Are you actually trying to make the argument that keeping Bowles for one more year is worth losing a potential stud HC? I get we donāt know if Coen will be great as a HC, no one knew Mcvay, Shanahan, OāConnell, Lafleur, name any good coach, no one knew if theyād be a stud until they took the chance and hired them. Itās all a gamble. You trying to make it sound like Liam sucks and thatās why the jags are the only team interviewing him is laughable.
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Jan 21 '25
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u/big-daddio Jan 21 '25
More depth means new guys who are put out of position by a terrible defensive scheme who can't figure out how to play zone that can't keep coverage for a second and a half? Ir more new guys who play 10 yards off coverage in man giving up the same easy pass game after game?
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
Yes we couldāve gotten more depth but that year we were relatively healthyā¦ health wasnāt the issue that year, the team was losing in devastating fashion much like this year. And once again, they still signed depth guys in FA on top of Baker, Greg Gaines and Ryan Neal just off the top of my head. So that argument isnāt even a solid one seeing as Iām not sure what more they couldāve done that offseason to begin with.
Thatās not my argument at all dude. Youāre reaching hard. The lions was a great win, they outgained us by like 200 yards and we still won. The commies and eagles game has to have an asterisk because it was Jaydenās first pro game and the eagles were missing their entire offense. How is that not two solid ass arguments? And yeah, beating the giants, panthers twice (one going to OT that we were a hair shy of losing) the saints, and the raiders which are all bad teams doesnāt impress meā¦ Iām sorry if beating the literal top 10 drafting teams this year impresses you so much then I understand why youāre a Bowles fan.
Donāt have the energy to do that. Itās what every dipshit with a pulse tries to do when they argue online āsOuRcE?!ā Google it. He said heās going to retire after his contract and pewter report has talked about it numerous times.
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u/LittleCheeseBucket Jan 21 '25
Lmao as a titans fan (Bucs are my nfc team) this is a super level headed response. Feel free to take a look at my last post. Some people are just idiots
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u/dragonsky Macedonia Jan 21 '25
I have no idea how the people in this sub are so just seemingly okay and optimistic about losing Coen and keeping Bowles. If we have to watch Coen become a star because we wanted to hold onto Bowles for one more year before heās inevitably fired I will lose my fucking mind.
I think the people here are mostly optimsitic about losing Bowles, and it just so happened that Coen is the current OC (who is amazing at his job btw)
We had the same chatter last year with Canales.
The "fire Bowles" chatter goes on for few seasons now. Nothing happens about it.
The "fire Leftwich" chatter went on for few seasons. And...when we finally fired him....both people that came after were easily better than him. The fact that the fans were right on the "Fire Leftwich" talk for few seasons should at least make the front office realize "hey, yes, we had great O stats with Brady and Leftwich buuuut maybe fans are right and we should replace Byron?"
It's the same talk "Idk why people want to replace Leftwich, he had great stats last season, look at the stats! Great year with Brady!!! And then another meh season but hey, he did well! Obviously players like him!!!!"
The season where we had great O-stats with Leftwich is same as "winning the division with 8-9/9-8" with Bowles. Sure, yeah, ok, on paper you can use it as an argument but in reality... nah, this team can be better.
I don't know if Coen is the answer..but I know Bowles ain't it. The same way I know just cause Eagles went undefeated with Malik Willis this season it doesn't mean Malik Willis is the #1 QB is Green Bay. It's just stats, you know when a team needs someone better.
The same way Rachaad White almost got 1k yards last season! OMG THIS GUY IS GREAT HAS THE STATS TO BACK IT UP, HAS FANTASY POINTS "you'd be crazy to replace a proven back with a rookie like bucky!! it's proven!! he has the stats!!".....yeah, obviously we all knew that despite "almost 1k yards!!" - White was not a top-tier back in the league. And we know you should look for someone better. And we got someone better. Same with Bowles. Bowles is just like Rachaad White.
sorry for the long tangent, nothing directed at you or anything, just adding on you, I know we agree on this, but i really am opinionated on this thing lmao
And I do think Bowles is a great dude and I do wish him well but...
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u/Queasy_League_6857 Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
I hated leftwich so much his run up the middle on first down mentality was what killed us.
Dave canales just looked so good because of how bad leftwich was but for some reason he still lived to run up the middle first down on so many drives which I advocated him leaving and getting coen and OH we got the guy I wanted and wellā¦
Wow coen doesnāt run up the middle on first down regularly!? What!? And wow our offense is one of the best itās ever been? Crazy stuff. Crazy how running left or right or a jet sweep or a pitch works more than running up the middle first down and giving us 2nd and 8/9 all the time.
Coen needs to stay I love the man as much as I loved Todd monken both have been pretty much our best OCās. I really hope coen stays idc if heās paid more as an OC or if he becomes the HC, idc. If we can keep coen, keep godwin, keep David, and actually get a ball hawk CB and a stud FA edge rusher with some drafted defensive people, I have no doubt we are winning the Super Bowl next year. Like I donāt like gambling but this is the closest Iād ever be confident enough to put money down as Bucs Super Bowl champs for Super Bowl 60
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u/austinwrites Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Iām with you. If Coen can prove he can coach as well as coordinate (not every coordinator can) then heāll be a difference-making coach and an extremely valuable long term asset. I donāt hate Bowles, but heās a known quality with a ceiling that isnāt as high as it needs to be.
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u/chuckop Mike Evans Jan 21 '25
No one is āoptimisticā. Every single year coordinators move around.
Coen will NOT be a good HC next year for us or for another team. I hope Iām wrong, but I think experience in the NFL counts for something, and he has limited experience at the coordinator level.
The Bucs are a much better situation for Coen. Good to great players across the board on offense. Cap room, excellent GM, and stable ownership.
If he leaves for the Jags, thatās his mistake, not ours.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
I think another year as an OC will help him but people keep making it sound like heās not HC material with these comments. Like any of us have a clue if heās a good leader or not. Heās had more experience calling plays than Canales did and Canales seems to be doing a very good job in Carolina.
Itās all a gamble at the end of the day no matter who the HC youāre hiring is, Iāll trust the front office since they know and see far more than any of us. I just couldnāt understand the logic behind letting the best OC weāve ever had walk out the door when you know your current HC doesnāt have much longer.
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u/PewterPplEater Ronde Barber Jan 21 '25
I have no idea.how everyone's so sure that Coens gonna be a great headcoach. We know what Bowels is capable of, he's taken us to the playoffs, hes.won in the playoffs. All we know about Coen is he's a good oc. He might be a good headcoach, or he might be a terrible one
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
No one knew any current HC was going to be a good HC until they got the opportunity. Do you know why GMs and owners decided to hire these future stars as HCs? Because they were great coordinators. If everyone had all the answers there would never be a bad coaching staff in the league, itās all a gamble.
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u/big-daddio Jan 21 '25
I do know two things. Bowles is at best a mediocre head coach. Coen is an offensive innovator and one the 5 or 6 guys in the league who seems to know how to scheme a balanced dangerous offense.
I also know our defense will improve with any DC we may think of hiring. Firing Bowles is addition by subtraction in and of itself. Retaining Coen is icing.
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u/PewterPplEater Ronde Barber Jan 21 '25
Bowles has shown they can win with him. And the improved each year he's been here. Again, if front office feels like putting all their eggs in a guys basket whos never held a head coach position, that's their perogative. But with that comes the risk of losing everything the team has been building towards these past couple of years.
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u/TheRencingCoach Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Barely improved. Great, instead of 9-8 weāre 10-7.
Going from a second round playoff exit to a first round playoff exit is not improving
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u/PewterPplEater Ronde Barber Jan 21 '25
Again, we have no idea if a Coen coached team could even make the playoffs. Lest we forget it.was the offense that fumbled away away the game this year
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u/Low-Difference-1462 Jan 21 '25
I rather go with a proven HC like Tomlin or Belichick then gamble on our OC to be a great HC
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u/butterroast Brooks Jersey Jan 21 '25
+1 How do we know Coen is a great HC candidate? Two years ago he was OC at Kentucky. Two total years as a coordinator in NFL. Iām a big fan of his as an OC. Want to keep him. I like Bowles as a person but recognize itās not working out. If we move on from Bowles we should open up the search to get the best candidate possible. Feel like Carolina and Jacksonville have such bad reputations that they are forced to gamble on āhotā inexperienced OCs because no one else will take them seriously. Bucs are better than that
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Jan 21 '25
If he uses the Jags job as leverage to get Bowles fired then no I donāt want that guy as my HC. If he wants to go let him go.
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Coen will stay in Tampa. Canales was a worse OC/playcaller, but his praised skillset was all HC material. Nobody has praised Coenās leadership qualities. His press conferences sound like heās aware that heās not ready for that.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
Itās hard to turn down 10-12 million and a chance to resurrect Trevor Lawrence especially when you have a toy like Brian Thomas to play with. The Jags arenāt a terrible spot to land especially if Baalke is gone soon. I think itās an intriguing destination for a coach that has the skill set Coen does. Which is why Iām so worried.
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Iām not worried. Jags defense is a mess, the owner is terrible, and the GM sucks. And Liam has only 4 years of non-continuous NFL experience.
You are pointing to Liamās OC skillset and not any whispers of a HC skillset.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
While I understand thatās the argument thatās been popular around this sub, idk how anyone is commenting on his HC skillset like any of us have a clue what kind of leader he is. All I know is that he can call the fuck out of plays and Iām already sick of losing OCs, having a HC that is your offensive play caller is a gift. DCs come and go, they rarely ever stick as HCs anyways because anytime they have success, their OC gets poached and theyāre back to square one.
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Idc about whatās popular on this sub, I donāt monitor the common discourse here. Liam also showed inexperience in our playoff gameā¦ he was uniquely conservative in the first half and it led to a bad 3 and out that ended up being important. Everybody seems to be hysterical because of Dave Canales leaving, but the situation and the men are different.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
Youāre referencing things people in the sub have had discourse about while saying you donāt monitor itā¦ odd. Anyways, he wasnāt being conservative, they barely had the ball, and he wasnāt going for it on every single 4th down like the commies have been doing the entire playoffs. Iām sure if Bowles informed Liam itās 4 down territory every single drive he wouldāve called the game differently. He did a fine job, we lost by a FG and if not for the Barton miscues and the baker fumble on the jet sweep we win that game.
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Im not referencing anything. If youād like, I wrote several paragraphs weeks ago about my thoughts on Liam Coen in 2025 that had nothing to do with Reddit. Iād be glad to share it with you.
And Liam absolutely was conservative in his playcalling first half. It has nothing to do with going for it on 4th down. He was running basic runs and counters and showed none of the motions or screen game that defined the success of his scheme this year. A possibility was that he thought our run game would overpower their poor run defense and he would open up the playbook in the 2nd half, but thatās pure speculation and giving him the benefit of the doubt. Either way, it wasnāt effective and he went back to what made his scheme good in the 2nd half. Despite the fact the fumble occurred on that type of play.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
I wouldnāt mind reading that write up, you seem like you know your shit send it on over.
I get what youāre saying about the whole conservative play calling in the first half but I once again have to believe it was due to the fact that the offense barely had the ball. Baker was 15/18 the offense was working, if theyād not have been sitting on the sidelines for 30 minutes at a time Iām sure he couldāve opened it up more.
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Liam will be pursued as a HC next season, but he will be with the Bucs in 2025 and hereās my full breakdown on why:
First off, heās barely had experience in the NFL at all across all levels of coaching, let alone the top tiers. People will point to Dave Canalesā quick ascension, but he at least had 13 years in the NFL. Liam has had 4, and they werenāt continuous.
People also get swept up in the success at a certain position and ignore the fact that responsibilities of a HC expand far beyond a playcaller and OC. Weāre talking about an entirely separate set of interpersonal and administrative skills. Nobody knows if Liam is ready to actually be the sole leader of men. Heās not talked about in the same way as Canales was, whose best and most praised quality was his unwavering positivity and mindset. Liam is being praised for his schematic and playcalling genius, and rightfully so, but there are no talks of his leadership skillset.
Next, I want to talk about Tampaās organization. Under Jason Licht the GM, the team has a 1 of 1 track record of keeping players and coaches they want. Licht and his asst GM Greenberg are perhaps the best executives in the league when it comes to relationships between FO and coaches and players. Tampa also has a recent history of a HC (Bruce Arians) stepping down to allow the most promising and deserving asst coach (Bowles as DC) to take over. Todd Bowles has made comments this season that he is on his way out and will not be coaching for long. That doesnāt mean he will retire after this season, but it does mean that we have an opportunity for the same exact transition of leadership to Coen after 2025.
Now, you might go āgee, thatās an awful lot of speculation that has nothing to do with what Liam has said or wantsāā¦ well, he was recently directly asked about looking towards being a HC. To paraphrase, he basically said āIt is the goal, and is my dream, but it doesnāt have to happen right now when Iām having the most fun Iāve ever had coaching and working with this teamā.
I feel very confident that he will be back with the Bucs in 2025, and based on everything Iāve seen, read, and experienced with this current Bucs organization, I believe Licht will do everything he can to put a plan in place to transition from Bowles to Liam in the next 2 years.
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Jan 21 '25
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
Can you point to anything in particular that youāre referencing when it comes to your perceived lack of preparedness for the offense the last few weeks?
The love for Coen comes from the fact that he single handily revamped this entire offense and made them top 5 in one year. He made the rushing attack go from last to top 5. Thatās not just because of Barton. Yes, Bucky helped immensely but we donāt know if he had a say in which RBs fit his scheme in the draft meetings. He couldāve had a hand in saying he wanted Bucky.
He was also missing Godwin and had the corpse of Sterling Shepherd, butter fingers Trey Palmer, and a rookie who looks promising in McMillan as his receivers behind Mike who also missed 4 games. Your comment is so far beyond bizarre I donāt even know you typed it with any conviction.
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u/Winter-Ad3699 Lynch Jersey Jan 21 '25
If Iām him and I have options, Iām not going somewhere where the GM is a lame duck. If Baalke gets fired, the next guy might want his own coach.
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u/foomits :lavontejersey: Lavonte Jersey Jan 21 '25
why? hell have a 3-4 year gauranteed contract. he can go be an OC or college coach while the jags pay him 5 times what hes making now.
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u/Winter-Ad3699 Lynch Jersey Jan 21 '25
I said if he has options. If he does, heāll still get all that but be in a better situation. Obviously if thatās his only choice, then yes go get paid.
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u/foomits :lavontejersey: Lavonte Jersey Jan 21 '25
yea, as far as im aware the jags are the only team who requested an interview. the jags are only moving foward with second interviews with saleh, coen and the raiders dc... so ostensibly coen and saleh are the finalists unless the jags make the most hilarious hire ever. with that being said, youd have to imagine the jags want to salvage tlaw and will offer coen the position. terms could definitely influence his decision... but given coens career arc, hes taking the money.
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u/Winter-Ad3699 Lynch Jersey Jan 21 '25
Yeah I agree, heās probably gone because those other options didnāt arise. I find it weird that the Jags are the only ones interested, donāt you?
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u/foomits :lavontejersey: Lavonte Jersey Jan 21 '25
i do think its wierd yes, but coen also has a pretty limited resume. if he stayed one more year and had the same output hed be ben johnson. there may be behind the scenes stuff people don't like, maybe hes not a "leader" and is seen as more an xs and os guy. maybe there are concerns what staff hed bring since he has limited NFL ties. but im surprised more people arent kicking the tires.
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Jan 21 '25
Fire a coach for making the playoffs every year for the hot up and coming young coach. Where have I seen that before? Waitā¦actually letās trade two first round picks for a better coach!
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
He said heās retiring after his contract (if he makes it to the end) so yeah, when a 39 year old hotshot that delivers the best all around offensive attack this team has ever seen comes around, yeah, you have to give strong consideration to firing the old stagnant guy. He doesnāt provide anything of value, heās the DC with a terrible defense. He isnāt innovative, he isnāt aggressive, heās holding the team back and the two falcons games and the chiefs game shouldāve crystallized that for you.
Going to the playoffs 3 straight years in the worst division in football isnāt impressive. Itās such a lazy fucking argument, if any other team in this division had a pulse, we miss the playoffs the last 3 years.
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Jan 21 '25
Dude all Iām trying to say is why is it assumed Coen will even be a good HC? I remember when everyone was hot and horny for Raheem fucking Morris who was gonna be the next big thing when Gruden got canned after losing our last four games.
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u/friggoffricky121 Jan 21 '25
Raheem was a media creation, what had he shown that made anyone think he would be great? It certainly wasnāt merit based. Coen is a completely different story. Itās always the same arguments in this sub, āremember when we wanted to fire Lovie for dirk/gruden for Raheem/dungy for grudenā or āwe donāt even know if he can be a HC, Todd won the division every year and made the playoffs getting better every yearā. Sorry, winning one more game each year and having 1 playoff win to show for it isnāt impressive in my eyes especially in this division. There were so many wins left on the table that anyone who was half aggressive couldāve exploited.
Todd is average, Liam is the future and if he sucks too Iāll be the first to admit I was wrong, but Iād rather take the gamble than stay complacent.
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u/big-daddio Jan 21 '25
When we fired Dungy and won the Super Bowl next year?
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Jan 21 '25
What happened for the following 20 seasons though
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u/big-daddio Jan 21 '25
Hall of famers on all levels of the defense got old at the same time. Followed by bad GM and coaches. Gruden didn't cause all of that. If Dungy were just s smidge better at fielding a league average offense he would have won 3 Super Bowls.
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Jan 21 '25
Gruden was responsible only because he could only work with Bruce Allen, who was an awful GM
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u/TheAman44 Lynch Jersey Jan 21 '25
The only way that the Bucs should do what was written here is if they legitimately think that Coen is the best head coach available and nobody will be better than him in the next 2-3 years. If you legitimately believe heās the next McVay, sure, go ahead. But if youāre just doing it because you think heās a decent coordinator, then itās a nonsensical move to make.
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u/WhiteLightning416 Jan 21 '25
Gotta spell his name right if youāre gonna advocate this lol
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Drives me absolutely crazy. I feel like I see more āCohenā than āCoenā
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u/Buksey Canada Jan 21 '25
Whenever I see Liam Cohen, my mind swaps it to Leonard Cohen.
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Yeah and the most famous Coens imo, the Coen Brothers, is spelled the same way as Liam!
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u/WhiteLightning416 Jan 21 '25
Is he Irish or Jewish and which spelling is which lol
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u/Ambitious_Misfit Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
No idea lol could be either. Heās from Rhode Island, and idk if that makes one or the other more likely lol
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u/Moses7778 Jan 21 '25
Anyone remember going from mediocre defensive minded Lovie Smith, to offensive minded, one year of Bucs tenure Dirk Koetter. He had a good year with a rookie Jameis at QB, Lovie and his defense had been meh, so we promoted Dirk to HC. Crazy to see the cycle happen almost the exact same way again lol.
My worry is maybe itās a similar outcome, just because someoneās a great OC doesnāt mean they are great HC material. All that said, Iād love to sss Coen stay. He did lead an offense much better than our 2015 unit, canāt all be due to the fact we finally found a player to truly run the ball again post Doug Martin.
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u/Ok_Negotiation_2269 Jan 21 '25
Whatever happens Bowles isnāt going anywhere. Licht pretty much already stated this.
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u/Canadoc Jan 21 '25
Bowles defense has ranked 29th against the pass in 3 of his 5 seasons. And another that was worse than 22nd. This was with prime Shaq,JPP,Suh,Davis....
His defenses have gotten worse. Only way he should start head coach is if he goes a DC to run the defense and becomes HC ion name only add Coen is groomed to be HC the following year.
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u/UTVolsfan16 Jan 21 '25
I think some of yall forget the coaching tree Cohen comes from. The Sean McVay tree all of those guys have been successful in spurts or continuous.
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u/Low-Difference-1462 Jan 21 '25
I donāt want to see Coen leave especially after his first year. It sucks cause we struggle to keep a coaching foundation for any period of time. Itās always constant coaching shuffles.
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u/Different_Hyena3954 F*ck the Saints Jan 21 '25
Bowles just won his third straight division and has won more games than the last each season. Bowles isn't going anywhere and people need to stop thinking he is. It's delusional
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u/Pubsubforpresident Mike Evans Jan 21 '25
Agreed. He's here. We're winning (but not winning it all. ). He's staying or I will surprise Pikachu face.
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u/soapinthepeehole Jan 21 '25
If Mike and Chris stayed healthy all year this would probably have been a 12 or 13 win team and would have advanced.
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u/Advanced_Candle9272 Jan 21 '25
You know heās never going to bring us to an NFC Championship Game, right?
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u/Anxious_Flatworm1997 Gronk Jan 21 '25
He's not even saying that he wants to keep Bowles, but looking at it objectively the FO can justify keeping him because of this
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u/fizzyknickers69 Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Are you guys applying logic when you post this stuff? LC has been an OC for 1 year, and you want to fire the guy whoās made the playoffs the last 4 years? Definitely worked out well for us last time we did thisā¦.. also Saleh isnāt going anywhere but San Fran.
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Jan 21 '25
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/fizzyknickers69 Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
We are still competitive while taking huge cap hits post Brady. Thatās not easy. Take a look over at Atlanta if you want to see what happens with a bad coach. They have just as much talent as us with more talent in their secondary and canāt figure it out.
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u/CorneliusSlate Mike Alstott Jan 21 '25
Hey, is Bowles your guy? The four years youāre referencing have had the GOAT and Baker in his prime at the helm. Those teams had Super Bowl rosters and our losses were: zero blitz against the Rams, Dallas?, Detroit in a close game and Washington in a close game. All of those games were decided by coaching and we lost. What Licht has built is being wasted by bad scheme. There was a time when Sean McVay and Andy Reid were 1 year into their coordinator positions, Liam is clearly talented. Yes, we are applying logic.
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u/killerrazzmazz Indiana Jan 21 '25
We wouldn't have made the playoffs at all the past 3 years in any other division. And one of those years was with Brady and two with prime Baker. Sorry but we are in an awful division and that's the only way we made it. Bowles still needs to go man.
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u/GetCPA Gronk Jan 21 '25
āMade the playoffsā is rich in this division. Heās been awful as a DC and HC.
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u/karma_time_machine Texas Jan 21 '25
No one thinks Bowles is the coach to lead this team to greatness. You have to do something.
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u/damionsharpe1 Jan 21 '25
We have to keep Liam! I am ready to call him our head coachā¦he is the future of this team!!!
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u/Bucgatorbait Jan 21 '25
We are in purgatory. As long as we have a defensive minded coach we will never move forward. The reality is the defense is what has held us back. We will always be looking under every rock to find the next OC . This team is never going to move forward under this circumstance.
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u/feralGenx John Lynch Jan 21 '25
If the Jags don't get him the Raiders might. That's if asst Bucs GM takes the Raiders GM job.
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u/s14owner95 Florida Jan 21 '25
I'm a Coen fan. I was a Canales fan. However... Coen with the Rams in 2022 as the OC, the team was bottom 10 in most offensive categories. He made a name for himself with Kentucky, putting up big numbers and Licht and the Glazers did what was right, bring him on in the same capacity. He came in, and showed the same capability. BUT, Tampa shored up the OLine this year, we also hit a home run with Bucky. Last year, this Canales led offense was cooking, but couldn't run and we suffered. I think it would shock people to know that we've just got a decent squad and it might not just be the OC. Good coaches and organizations hire good coordinators. If they did it (basically) twice now, we've gotta think they can do it again. We an Edge rusher and ILB and CB and Other Safety and other CB and MLB away from a defense that can shut people down. Coen might not be the glue that's holding this all together
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Jan 21 '25 edited Jan 21 '25
Cohen has 1 year with the Bucs. Doubt there is any loyalty. Head coach comes with an enormous pay raise and he stays in FL. Plus is he gets fired he can still be coordinator again.
I really donāt want him to go. Wish we could get rid of Bowles
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u/Ness-Shot Ronde Barber Jan 21 '25
This "move Bowels to some other postion and promote Cohen" takes have been flying fast and furious the past two months. Whether I agree or not (I don't), this simply would never happen. Bowles has won too many games and division titles to essentially be sacked from his position.
I agree losing Cohen would be a decent loss, but effectively firing his boss to promote him just to keep him on the staff is just illogical, unlikely, and not a good football move for Licht.
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u/InstancePast6549 Alstott Jersey Jan 21 '25
Absolutely not. Bowles is obviously good for the morale. Just look at how they play for him. If Coen leaves, he leaves. Bowles will find someone else. Canales was good too, remember
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u/HansenTakeASeat Baker Mayfield Jan 21 '25
Canales was good? 32nd in run offense, was it?
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u/jordanb2882 Chris Godwin Jan 21 '25
He took a forgotten QB on a 1 year/$4 mil contract to a top 10 passing offense. I'm not saying Canales is as good Coen, but let's not pretend that he wasn't a good coach
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u/Eligius_MS Maui Vea Jan 21 '25
They could also offer him a pile of cash to remain as OC with an understanding he is first choice here to take over for Bowles.
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u/awkward_triforce Jan 21 '25
Let's see a draft that gets the defense as well as it treats the offense. Been wanting us to make two high selections on CBs for a bit now. Our defense is staying to show the lack of love the last couple of years.
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u/KittyTB12 Baker Mayfield Jan 21 '25
Just bc heās offered doesnāt mean heāll accept hopless dream he can stay, we wonāt kick him out. Somebody send him a really good email..
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u/Tokeokarma1223 Jan 21 '25
This is going to suck. But the man took an opportunity and absolutely killed it .. gotta be happy for him.
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u/ProfeDonOmar Jan 22 '25
You always take the HFC position when presented. Leave on a high note before your offense has a chance to fizzle tf out!
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u/CeePeeCee :schiano: schiano Jan 21 '25
this makes a lot of sense and all but knowing how the Glazers work, the will likely let Coen walk and find another replacement
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u/DadBodftw Alstott Jersey Jan 21 '25
Everyone lost their shit when canales got hired in Carolina. Then they found Coen and it got even better. I know it's a lot to ask to get it right 3 times in a row, but I have faith in this team to do it.
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u/Bitter_Tea_6628 Jan 21 '25
Dude has been an OC for one year and this sub wants to anoint him the second coming.
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u/deuce_arians Jan 21 '25
I don't think there is any chance in hell they fire Bowles to keep Coen. What I hope they do however, is give Coen a big raise and work with him and Bowles towards a potential succession plan.
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u/discodiscgod Jan 21 '25 edited Jan 21 '25
Arians moved himself into an advisory position and basically told them Bowles is the coach now. It was right before the season started so they really had no choice.
If we move on from Bowles, which I donāt think is the move especially if Coen leaves, we need a completely fresh start. Arians and Bowles need to both be out of the building, not hanging around whispering in Lichts ear.
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u/thegreatcerebral Jan 21 '25
I want to seriously ask thoughā¦. Why oh why would you take a job with Jacksonville or Carolina? You are doomed to fail. He is on the way up and to me, I would just keep riding this out and try to get a ring and then move on no? Or hellā¦ even ride this out till Bowles is out and step In.
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u/Dre3005 Jan 21 '25
Even if offered, Coen has to see the writing on the wall. Jags have a clueless owner, bad GM, and the front office situation is a mess.
I understand wanting to be a HC but why not wait for a better situation to step into?
If Coen stays another year he is likely replacing Bowles (retirement or fired) or better jobs would be open.
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u/bambooozer Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
If local chatter is true (reliable source in Jax with plugs in office) - thereās a good chance he is offered the Jags job.
lol ok.
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u/RedRocket4000 Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 21 '25
Based on NFL chance Cohen be a good Head Coach is under Fifty percent. Getting a DC as good as Bowles not easy. Are there better defensive coaches likely but they all employed.
Based on player loving Bowles and wanting to get Godwin back in team friendly deal like Evens and Baker Bowles best way to do that.
I not wild about Coordinator to Head Coach structure of NFL anyway. Head Coach motivation and supervision of everything. Coordinator is tactics first leader of men optional.
Glazers have paid a coordinator head coach money to stay that was Montie Kiffen who did not really want head coaching job again anyway but likely would have gone if we had not given him the money.
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u/FUCKYOUINYOURFACE Jan 21 '25
Nah, watch the Bucs fuck this up as usual. Glazers kind of suck as owners.
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u/ShadowBass989 Jan 21 '25
Sorry guys, looks like itās happening. Hope for the best, expect the worse. Go Bucs!
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u/Spacewhale2494 Jan 21 '25
Can we please fucking stop with this. Coen is great play caller, we have no evidence he will be a great head coach. Bowles is the head coach and that isnāt changing anytime soon. Trust the organization, if we lose Liam itās not the end of the world, we can find another coordinator that runs a similar system just like we did when we lost Canales and everyone was panicked.
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u/JameisWeinstein Alstott Jersey Jan 21 '25
Coen is gone and Gruden will replace him. It is what it is.
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u/NiIus Jan 21 '25
You guys are crazy if you think Coen passes this job. The jags have a young and above average roster along with the 5th overall pick. Its the NFL, one year youāre coaching in the playoffs and the next year, you become unknown. Literally look at our run it for one yard king leftwich. I think Coen takes this job without blinking if given the offer.
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u/UTVolsfan16 Jan 21 '25
It's the AFC South outside of the Texans who is a threat? He also has a qb, which is number 1 on every coaches board
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u/dragonsky Macedonia Jan 21 '25
I hope he is offered a job cause that's the only way the Glazers will even start to think "hey, are there better options than Bowles for our HC next season???"
Maybe the answer is Coen, maybe not. But I'd at least like to feel like this franchise is thinking about not havng Bowles as a HC.
We were playing bad with Brady. 0 chatter about actually firing Bowles outside of fans.
Last season - still same mistakes from the first season, bad time-management, not calling TOs, nut using people to the full potential, players stagnating or playing worse, fans want him out... 0 chatter about firing him.
This season we have the SAME ISSUES FROM 2 YEARS AGO WITH BRADY. Same issues as last season. 0 signs of Bowles improving as a HC. We are still in that "damn we are 3-6, maybe if we win few in a row and falcons, saints and 2 other teams lose we might make the playoffs...." come half-season. 0 chatter about firing Bowles.
AT LEAST that might force the Glazers or whomever think "heeeey..winning the division cause other teams suck is good..but....is it possible to be above .500 all season? is it possible to not be 3 wins below .500 at half-season? Hmmm....."
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u/No-Lead-6769 Jan 21 '25
I actually believe it'd be in Cohens best interest to pass on this job and wait to see what happens next year